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Nuclear Launch Detected... =o - Page 34

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arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
December 09 2008 04:20 GMT
#661
only read this page and page #1,however i think it was justified to end the war otherwise the united states would have invaded a country where all its civilians WERE willing to fight to the death.

thus i think it was.(this may have been mentioned already)
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
randombum
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States2378 Posts
December 09 2008 04:27 GMT
#662
On December 09 2008 13:17 il0seonpurpose wrote:
Isn't all of this debate subjective? On one side you have people saying, yes its justified, the numbers show it but the other side are the people saying its not justified because you can't just label people as statistics and not think about their personal lives and such.


Yea, this is one of those things that neither side will ever win.

And as to the person to bumped this....

You suggest starving the whole country who won't surrender instead of blowing up two cities? Not that I'm saying its a good thing (although I do, but its not worth it at this point).

From your own reasoning the Japanese people would have rather starved to death instead of surrendering.
BalliSLife
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
1339 Posts
December 09 2008 04:31 GMT
#663
I thought civilian deaths BACK AT THAT TIME didn't matter in a "world war" where total war means civilians all work together to ensure victory of their soldiers and country by all means.

Ya well, at least I don't fuck a fleshlight with a condom on and cry at the same time.
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21248 Posts
December 09 2008 04:40 GMT
#664
Yes. Poetic justice. Japan did a lot of crap to the rest of Asia, killed a few million people, so, I'd say they got off easy.
TranslatorBaa!
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
December 09 2008 04:49 GMT
#665
Now that it comes to my mind this may sound bad but without the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki the Japanese would have had no reason to make the original Godzilla. Before i get flamed people must know that this was Japans warning against the horror of nuclear warfare.

All done on this topic now.
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
ProberoO
Profile Joined November 2008
United States88 Posts
December 09 2008 04:56 GMT
#666
I think yes... simply because it at least ended most of the lives quickly... okay, maybe not with all the radiation crap, but that's just my opinion, yes...
The pandabearguy should be in every map.
alphafuzard
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1610 Posts
December 09 2008 04:57 GMT
#667
On December 09 2008 13:40 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Yes. Poetic justice. Japan did a lot of crap to the rest of Asia, killed a few million people, so, I'd say they got off easy.

You can't group a country as if it was one person. The Japanese ARMY and Japanese GOVERNMENT under a sadistic leader committed war crimes and devastated the entire east coast of Asia...but not the Japanese civilians. The nuclear bombings on Hiroshima and Nagasaki targeted hundreds of thousands of CIVILIANS, people who had no influence on the world at large.
more weight
GunsofthePatriots
Profile Joined August 2007
South Africa991 Posts
December 09 2008 05:00 GMT
#668
On December 09 2008 13:57 alphafuzard wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 09 2008 13:40 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Yes. Poetic justice. Japan did a lot of crap to the rest of Asia, killed a few million people, so, I'd say they got off easy.

You can't group a country as if it was one person. The Japanese ARMY and Japanese GOVERNMENT under a sadistic leader committed war crimes and devastated the entire east coast of Asia...but not the Japanese civilians. The nuclear bombings on Hiroshima and Nagasaki targeted hundreds of thousands of CIVILIANS, people who had no influence on the world at large.


I believe the Japanese killed civilians as well.
Divinek
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Canada4045 Posts
December 09 2008 05:01 GMT
#669
So the real best solution would have been to drop those nukes on military institutions.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Oh goodness me, FOX tv where do you get your sight? Can't you keep track, the puck is black. That's why the ice is white.
EmeraldSparks
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States1451 Posts
December 09 2008 05:02 GMT
#670
WHY THE FUCK IS THIS THREAD ALIVE AGAIN

OKAY THAT WOULDN'T BE TOO BAD IF PEOPLE WERE RAISING NEW, UNRAISED POINTS

EXCEPT THEY OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T

MAN WTF
But why?
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
December 09 2008 05:07 GMT
#671
lol
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
rushz0rz
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
Canada5300 Posts
December 09 2008 05:13 GMT
#672
On December 09 2008 13:17 Kwark wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 09 2008 12:59 rushz0rz wrote:
Never is it justified to drop an atomic bomb on a city full of innocent civilians. Why not just blockade the island and starve them into surrender? You have to remember the Japanese have long, centuries old traditions with the Bushido, its just in their culture to not surrender, and this was continually pumped into every citizen and army soldier and officer. Try undergoing years and years of education in one tradition, you will believe what you are told, even Hitler knew this. Japan is all about the society as a whole and not the individual, and therefore surrendering is becoming a traitor to your country. The Japanese had already payed the price of Pearl Harbor and the atomic bomb was just too far. Even Japanese historians will say that the Americans forced them into the position they got themselves into.

Only a stupid, redneck, nationalist (its not fascism when they do it) American would believe that the atomic bomb used on Japan is justified.

Where do you draw the line between military and civilian in a total war? Is it okay to hit a munitions factory? If so, is it okay to hit munitions workers? If so, is it okay to hit the infrastructure that supports them? In a total war there are no civilians. That's the definition of it. The entire population mobilised to maximise productivity in the war effort. In a total war the contribution to the war of a soldier and a farmer are the same, if one is a target the other should be.


I'm aware of total war, but Japanese was a beaten nation by this time. And still, why not use regular bombs instead of an atomic bomb to blow up said munitions factories.
IntoTheRainBOw fan~
rushz0rz
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
Canada5300 Posts
December 09 2008 05:15 GMT
#673
On December 09 2008 13:57 alphafuzard wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 09 2008 13:40 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Yes. Poetic justice. Japan did a lot of crap to the rest of Asia, killed a few million people, so, I'd say they got off easy.

You can't group a country as if it was one person. The Japanese ARMY and Japanese GOVERNMENT under a sadistic leader committed war crimes and devastated the entire east coast of Asia...but not the Japanese civilians. The nuclear bombings on Hiroshima and Nagasaki targeted hundreds of thousands of CIVILIANS, people who had no influence on the world at large.


Actually it was mainly the army. The Government really had no say in the military and the Generals did what they wanted. After the Manchurian Crisis, the Government didn't even know about the invasion for awhile. The only way the Government could control the military was by budget cuts or the emperor himself, to which he did nothing to stop them.
IntoTheRainBOw fan~
geometryb
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States1249 Posts
December 09 2008 05:27 GMT
#674
value judgment
MorningMusume11
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States3490 Posts
December 09 2008 06:04 GMT
#675
Wouldn't killing the Emperor outright been just as effective as the A-Bomb?
dybydx
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Canada1764 Posts
December 09 2008 23:12 GMT
#676
in hindsight, bombing those cities prolly saved more lives than it killed.

both the allies and japan were expecting the war to go into 1946. the us was expecting a few more million deaths before the war can end.

Wouldn't killing the Emperor outright been just as effective as the A-Bomb?

actually i think the emperor was the one that stopped the war. the japanese generals were willing to fight to the last man, but the emperor wasnt willing to watch his cities bombed.
...from the land of imba
Cobalt
Profile Joined April 2008
United States441 Posts
December 09 2008 23:23 GMT
#677
On December 10 2008 08:12 dybydx wrote:

Show nested quote +
Wouldn't killing the Emperor outright been just as effective as the A-Bomb?

actually i think the emperor was the one that stopped the war. the japanese generals were willing to fight to the last man, but the emperor wasnt willing to watch his cities bombed.


This is what my American history textbook told me. The emperor, although largely a figurehead at that point, couldn't stand to see any more of his cities bombed and forced his generals to sue for peace.
SpiralArchitect
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2116 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-09 23:30:27
December 09 2008 23:27 GMT
#678
On December 09 2008 12:59 rushz0rz wrote:
Never is it justified to drop an atomic bomb on a city full of innocent civilians. Why not just blockade the island and starve them into surrender? You have to remember the Japanese have long, centuries old traditions with the Bushido, its just in their culture to not surrender, and this was continually pumped into every citizen and army soldier and officer. Try undergoing years and years of education in one tradition, you will believe what you are told, even Hitler knew this. Japan is all about the society as a whole and not the individual, and therefore surrendering is becoming a traitor to your country. The Japanese had already payed the price of Pearl Harbor and the atomic bomb was just too far. Even Japanese historians will say that the Americans forced them into the position they got themselves into.

Only a stupid, redneck, nationalist (its not fascism when they do it) American would believe that the atomic bomb used on Japan is justified.

Paid the price for Pearl Harbor? You have such a pretty and nice view on what war is, you should really study things before making idiotic comments like this. War isnt as clear cut as you think it is, its always a sad and ugly thing which can never, ever be justified. I have my own views on the nuclear bombs but you can go back to the beginning of this and see those.

1) Like Kwark said this was total war. In total war the citizens are your enemy, everyone who swears allegiance to your enemy is fair game and thats just the way it is. The atomic bomb was not even the worst of World War II, if you look into it you can find numerous evens which were much much more shocking than this.

2) The Japanese were not forced into the war. They sided with the Nazis and when we wouldnt sell them scrap and oil because they did so they freaked out. How did they get pushed into siding with the Nazis? How did they get pushed into invading China? Please tell me these secrets from the past.

3) This thread is fucking stupid and so are you.

4) Japan was not some innocent bystander, you act like all those citizens were just there on vacation and they just so happened to get bombed. Those people supported the Japanese war effort, which is not just the Government, its everyone in that country growing food, making weapons, building cars and so forth. Every citizen of a country is responsible for his allegiance and if you dont like it get the fuck out before your ass gets bombed because your job and your taxes support the war effort.

5) THink about it this way. You are playing SC and you notice that your opponents economy is monstrous, he is making tons and tons of units and you cant catch up. What do you do? Well you try and slow his economy down by killing his workers or an expansion. Now did those workers ever do anything to you? No. But did the dragoons that the minerals he mined made? Yes they fucking attacked you. But why are you reaver dropping him/storming his scvs? Well because if you do that he cant make anymore fucking units and you can win. IS THAT SIMPLE ENOUGH FOR YOU?
TeamLiquids #1 illiterate writer, writin dem wordz is de hardz.
aliceblue
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United Kingdom43 Posts
December 09 2008 23:47 GMT
#679
No, i don't think it was justified.. killing innocent civilians on such a big scale could never be justified. Regardless of what the rest of this thread says - they were 'innocent', and they are still paying for it now with radiation etc.

4) Japan was not some innocent bystander, you act like all those citizens were just there on vacation and they just so happened to get bombed. Those people supported the Japanese war effort, which is not just the Government, its everyone in that country growing food, making weapons, building cars and so forth. Every citizen of a country is responsible for his allegiance and if you dont like it get the fuck out before your ass gets bombed because your job and your taxes support the war effort.

That made me laugh, really.. read that back and try and make sense of it.
afg-warrior
Profile Joined June 2007
Afghanistan328 Posts
December 10 2008 00:10 GMT
#680
On December 10 2008 08:27 SpiralArchitect wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 09 2008 12:59 rushz0rz wrote:
Never is it justified to drop an atomic bomb on a city full of innocent civilians. Why not just blockade the island and starve them into surrender? You have to remember the Japanese have long, centuries old traditions with the Bushido, its just in their culture to not surrender, and this was continually pumped into every citizen and army soldier and officer. Try undergoing years and years of education in one tradition, you will believe what you are told, even Hitler knew this. Japan is all about the society as a whole and not the individual, and therefore surrendering is becoming a traitor to your country. The Japanese had already payed the price of Pearl Harbor and the atomic bomb was just too far. Even Japanese historians will say that the Americans forced them into the position they got themselves into.

Only a stupid, redneck, nationalist (its not fascism when they do it) American would believe that the atomic bomb used on Japan is justified.

Paid the price for Pearl Harbor? You have such a pretty and nice view on what war is, you should really study things before making idiotic comments like this. War isnt as clear cut as you think it is, its always a sad and ugly thing which can never, ever be justified. I have my own views on the nuclear bombs but you can go back to the beginning of this and see those.

1) Like Kwark said this was total war. In total war the citizens are your enemy, everyone who swears allegiance to your enemy is fair game and thats just the way it is. The atomic bomb was not even the worst of World War II, if you look into it you can find numerous evens which were much much more shocking than this.

2) The Japanese were not forced into the war. They sided with the Nazis and when we wouldnt sell them scrap and oil because they did so they freaked out. How did they get pushed into siding with the Nazis? How did they get pushed into invading China? Please tell me these secrets from the past.

3) This thread is fucking stupid and so are you.

4) Japan was not some innocent bystander, you act like all those citizens were just there on vacation and they just so happened to get bombed. Those people supported the Japanese war effort, which is not just the Government, its everyone in that country growing food, making weapons, building cars and so forth. Every citizen of a country is responsible for his allegiance and if you dont like it get the fuck out before your ass gets bombed because your job and your taxes support the war effort.

5) THink about it this way. You are playing SC and you notice that your opponents economy is monstrous, he is making tons and tons of units and you cant catch up. What do you do? Well you try and slow his economy down by killing his workers or an expansion. Now did those workers ever do anything to you? No. But did the dragoons that the minerals he mined made? Yes they fucking attacked you. But why are you reaver dropping him/storming his scvs? Well because if you do that he cant make anymore fucking units and you can win. IS THAT SIMPLE ENOUGH FOR YOU?


so was september 11 justified because the people there went to work and supported the US army?

its funny because the terrorists use the exact same logic when they target civilians.
"Yeah fuck multiplayer I'm only in this for the xel'naga" snowdrift86
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