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The Richard Dawkins Thread - Page 25

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Epocalypse
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada319 Posts
June 12 2015 01:54 GMT
#481
But Dawkins’s theory of the “moral Zeitgeist” clearly does not solve the problem of how to validate moral ideas by reference to reality; it just treats collective opinion as though it were objective fact. That a changing moral consensus exists and that most people unthinkingly absorb their moral views through social osmosis does not mean that the consensus is correct or that people should acquire their moral views this way. Although Dawkins acknowledges that we can and must judge the contents of the Bible by reference to an independent moral standard, he fails to recognize that we can and must judge the social consensus by reference to the same.


This is an excellent article about the "New Atheists". Although they deserve a lot of credit for illuminating why various religions and their dogmas are contradictory and anti-life, they fail to offer a positive alternative to religious ethics, often times invoking faith or some arbitrary reason for their own beliefs.

Full article here. It does an excellent job of showing these atheist's own contradictions and short comings. And offers it's own solutions.
bw4life
Titusmaster6
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5937 Posts
June 12 2015 02:21 GMT
#482
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 10:19 Hier wrote:
I was watching a video of Richard Dawkins and Lawrence Krauss give their Something from Nothing talk at Australian National University on 10 April 2012.

Lo and behold a guy comes up to the microphone to ask a question branding a TL shirt! We are everywhere! Fess up, who was that?

The video is time stamped.



That's freaking AWESOME
Shorts down shorts up, BOOM, just like that.
kwizach
Profile Joined June 2011
3658 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-12 03:04:00
June 12 2015 03:01 GMT
#483
On June 12 2015 10:54 Epocalypse wrote:
Show nested quote +
But Dawkins’s theory of the “moral Zeitgeist” clearly does not solve the problem of how to validate moral ideas by reference to reality; it just treats collective opinion as though it were objective fact. That a changing moral consensus exists and that most people unthinkingly absorb their moral views through social osmosis does not mean that the consensus is correct or that people should acquire their moral views this way. Although Dawkins acknowledges that we can and must judge the contents of the Bible by reference to an independent moral standard, he fails to recognize that we can and must judge the social consensus by reference to the same.


This is an excellent article about the "New Atheists". Although they deserve a lot of credit for illuminating why various religions and their dogmas are contradictory and anti-life, they fail to offer a positive alternative to religious ethics, often times invoking faith or some arbitrary reason for their own beliefs.

Full article here. It does an excellent job of showing these atheist's own contradictions and short comings. And offers it's own solutions.

I found that to be a pretty terrible article (and not because it criticizes Harris, Hawkins etc. - I don't care much about them even though I'm an atheist myself). First, I disagree with the following statement:

In order to persuade religionists to abandon their dangerous beliefs, one must do more than show what is wrong with religion—one must provide something positive to fill the moral void. One must show that an objective morality exists and that it is based not on revelation or faith but on observable facts.

I don't see why morality has to be "objective". Morality is a social construct and is therefore intersubjective, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Second, the author argues that altruism isn't innate, while research indicates that there may well be an innate component to empathy (see the experiments conducted by Paul Bloom and Karen Wynn, for example), even if our empathy and altruism then develop through our interactions with our environment (to put it concisely, it therefore looks to be a matter of both nature and nurture).

Third, the author argues that egoism is more rationally moral than altruism, which is, to me, nonsense in terms of pretending that the statement has any claim at objectivity. It may be the view of Ayn Rand and others, but there's nothing "objective" about egoism being more moral than altruism, since again morality is intersubjective. Egoism is also only more rational than altruism in some cases and not in others, for example when your objective is self-preservation or self-advancement (and even then, it's not always the more rational behavior), which makes the argument tautological.
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions." -- Stephen Colbert
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