What is going on in South Korea?

What is going on in South Korea? - Page 5

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CuddlyCuteKitten

Sweden2761 Posts

January 07 2025 18:45 GMT

#81

On January 07 2025 12:57 Salazarz wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 06 2025 01:16 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:

On January 05 2025 12:36 JimmyJRaynor wrote:

On January 05 2025 11:39 Salazarz wrote:Fucking MAGA virus needs to die in a fire.

I negotiate with confrontational brinksmanship from loud mouthed know-it-all Americans all the time and attitudes like this do not work. This attitude only results in blow back. There is nothing wrong with feeling anger or frustration. You can't let it impact the clarity of your thinking. Relating these issues back to the bunch of American loud mouths is a big intellectual error.

If one wishes to lower nationalistic fervour then one must explore its roots and deal with those issues directly. Ignore history and you are doomed to repeat it.

So with MAGA specifically we're talking about American middle class workers getting totally fucked over in the 70s by those purporting to support them. And, I guess Vietnam draftees getting fucked over by the USA government along with American hostages languishing in Iran for 444 days. These issues gave rise to the MAGA slogan by Reagan during the 1980 election campaign. Obviously, in South Korea its a totally different story. Ignore history while villianizing and labelling those who disagree with you are you are doomed to repeat your own history.

I'd say MAGA's origins in the USA have zero resemblance to the feelings of nationalism in South Korea. So that gives us step #1.

Step #1 is: Ignore America. USA ain't got nuttin' to do with nuttin'. Americans make a lot of noise and do a lot of grand standing. Ignore it.

This is all standard protocol from the Pierre Elliott Trudeau manual on dealing with nationalism. I'm not inventing the wheel here. Its been dealt with before.

I agree with some points. I also think there's a need to both consider the actions taken against them and more importantly the consequences.

It seems in south korea they wanted to question the president and he ignored it. So now they tried to arrrest him and that failed.

It seems many countries you just throw what you can against the nationalist wall and see what sticks. And their response is to ignore it or fight against it.
Then the decision is to back down because escalation isn't deemed worth it. Makes the state look weak and like there are no consequences for breaking the law.

I think that is wrong. If you decide to arrest someone or stop someone from doing something (breaking in to the capitolium for example) you decide first if it's justified and that the consequences for doing it is worth it. Before you try. And then if you decide to do it then do it.

If arresting the previous PM is important then you escalate untill he is arrested. The state has a monopoly of violence after all.
If it's just political bullshit don't do it at all.

The culture of attacking political opponents in every way possible has to stop, but when there truly is a serious cause the hammer also has to come down.

It's like GH points out, if this person actually tried a coup that is serious. At that point you clear the street with riot police, park a tank outside the building and kindly inform his security detail that they can either deal with the riot squad without guns or they can deal with a swat team with their guns after the tank sends 5 rounds of 120 mm HE into the building.

If it's not serious maybe don't accuse them of it and just let them keep making a fool of themselves.

This is such a stupid comment. Yeah sure, let's bring out the tanks and start shooting at people because 'the state has a monopoly of violence.' Jesus Christ.

Declaring martial law and trying to arrest a bunch of people is serious. But since our military and police chiefs aren't psychotic bloodthirsty maniacs like yourself, the stupid orders were ignored and the president is now rightfully removed. If he and his handpicked guard wants to hole up in a building and hide behind a bunch of dumbass incels chanting 'FREEDUMB!', that's annoying but hardly worth starting a firefight over.

Obviously it's not that serious since he is not being arrested.

The entire point is that these people keep pushing because they are perfectly able to do so. There are no consequences to breaking or ignoring the law. Compounded by a lot of previous lawfare that rewards them for ignoring the law.

If there are truly cause to arrest him for a serious crime there is not only the option for the state to arrest him, it's a mandate. It is what all law is based upon. The state binds its power with law but when it tells you it's going to do something you know it's going to happen.
It will escalate until it happens and it doesn't matter what you do to resist it because it always has a bigger stick. It's not the state (or police) that choses violence, it's the entity resisting. A tank is just a reminder that you will lose in the end.

Salazarz

Korea (South)2591 Posts

January 08 2025 10:52 GMT

#82

Who are 'these people'? What do 'they' 'keep pushing'? What 'lawfare' rewards 'them' for ignoring the law, and in what ways?

The idea that the state can always escalate with violence and thus resisting is pointless is what empowers abuse and dictators. The refusal of lower ranks of politicians and regular boots on the ground to use their 'bigger stick' is what stopped this crisis spiraling out of control. For the prosecutors / opposition to now insist on a violent reprisal against the ousted president would be incredibly bad optics and would only serve to divide the country.

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