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On November 03 2026 22:44 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2026 22:31 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 03 2026 16:56 maybenexttime wrote:On November 03 2026 07:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 03 2026 05:53 Jankisa wrote:On November 03 2026 04:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 03 2026 01:40 Jankisa wrote:On November 02 2026 05:50 Billyboy wrote:
Can you provide any evidence of your theory? Eh, never gonna happen. That's partially true. That person specifically knows I'm not going to interact with them directly because I haven't for years (wish people could try that with oBlade types) If you are interested in this worldview explained, you can look up what Chomski or Jeffrey Sachs have to say, it's mostly just typical "anti-imperialist West" bullshit that would make sense if USA wasn't a (relatively) functioning democracy. + Show Spoiler +Basically US, no matter the administration has the agenda of expanding NATO and boxing Russia in, the EU is just a vassal state that does US "deep state/MIC" bidding and this is why EU is so adamant in supporting Ukraine.
It's the same "uniparty" analysis they use to explain everything else, and just like with any good conspiracy there is a kernel of truth in some of their claims, those small kernels are used to sow doubt and division and of course, there is a steady dose of lies, myths and exaggerations that they use to "back up their claims".
So you'll get your typical "Azov proves Ukrainians are Nazis and Putin was right to de-nazifiy them", "Nuland call proves US couped Ukraine" and many other similar BS excuses. Of course, no one really denies that there were and are Nazi supporters in Azov or that Nuland called and discussed who to back after the Euromaidan, but that doesn't mean that Ukrainians are Nazis or that US couped Ukraine, doesn't prevent the tankies from smuggly repeating this. Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent" has some valuable observations, but no, Chomsky or Jeffrey Sachs (I had to look him up, I recognize the face but I couldn't tell you something he's said from memory) aren't a good proxy for my perspective. My perspective comes out of the Radical Black Tradition (no way you don't know this, so picking two old white guys is just funny to me). Toussaint Louverture, W.E.B. Du Bois, C.L.R. James, Claudia Jones, Frantz Fanon, Walter Rodney, Cedric Robinson are some of my historical influences, and I literally recently told you that Dr. Charisse Burden-Stelly and Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor are the kind of people that I support/learn in community with nowadays. On the Nazi part, the whole Stepan Bandera and naming stuff after/using Nazi symbology aspect is not great, but I don't think it "proves Ukrainians are Nazis and Putin was right to de-nazifiy them". It is remarkable how frequently Western media incidentally ends up highlighting neo-nazis and their contributions though. This recent example of a Nazi nugget comes to mind. While US support and the promises from McCain were undeniably influential, I don't deny Ukrainians their agency or legitimate motivations for their actions. I don't mind you all disagreeing with me, even intensely, but it seems so wasteful for you to be raging at imagined phantom versions/strawmen of what I think/believe. Thank you GH, that is actually very reasonable and seems way more evolved a viewpoint then back in the few times we interacted in this thread, I can't believe I'm writing this but seems like impressive growth to me. On one hand I appreciate that, on the other, it's not new (just your recognition/understanding is), but that's whatever. One thing that I'd definitely challenge you on there is your tendency to look at everything through that same lens, isn't it more prudent to look at things like this more from the perspective of people who are more affected and might hold more expertise?
Don't you think that getting your news and understanding of a war between 2 99% white countries is a bit reductive?
I'm not even saying that these folks have inaccurate or propagandist views, I'm simply too ignorant on that, but given their biases of suffering under USA regimes over the years they might be a bit biased in interpreting everything the US goverment is doing as sinister.
You misunderstand. That was addressing your terribly misguided understanding of the lens through which I look at global events generally. Black Radical Thought is a relatively easily researchable framework/worldview from which people can pose more informed questions/assumptions about what I believe. Edit: Ew, just saw the caption on the tweet you posted. + Show Spoiler + The guy is 20, his country has been under attack since he was 8 and under full invasion since he was 16, his hands and legs were blown up, perhaps finding a little bit of understanding that someone like that can be very easily radicalized and maybe they aren't a complete piece of shit formed person who you should praise calling nuggets online might be prudent.
For someone who has no issues understanding Hamas fighters you are really having issues doing the same for Ukrainians, it's pretty disappointing.
And you know, Ukrainians unlike Hamas or Russia don't deliberately target civilians and do horrific war crimes as standard operating procedure. I can't endorse the caption, but I can recognize I used "nazi nugget" because I'm a sucker for alliteration. Honestly, f**k a nazi and apologia for them (this shouldn't be a controversial statement). Generally though, the whole BRT lens informs why I don't just empathize with the "nazi nugget" that gets a feel good story on ABC about how they're going to turn a bunch of Russians into pieces. I also empathize with random Russians that have been propagandized and exploited since birth and/or are forced by circumstances beyond their control into compromising situations. But also f**k a Russian "nazi nugget" (especially if they get a feel good media story) too. On November 03 2026 06:26 maybenexttime wrote:On November 03 2026 04:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 03 2026 01:40 Jankisa wrote:On November 02 2026 05:50 Billyboy wrote:
Can you provide any evidence of your theory? Eh, never gonna happen. That's partially true. That person specifically knows I'm not going to interact with them directly because I haven't for years (wish people could try that with oBlade types) If you are interested in this worldview explained, you can look up what Chomski or Jeffrey Sachs have to say, it's mostly just typical "anti-imperialist West" bullshit that would make sense if USA wasn't a (relatively) functioning democracy. + Show Spoiler +Basically US, no matter the administration has the agenda of expanding NATO and boxing Russia in, the EU is just a vassal state that does US "deep state/MIC" bidding and this is why EU is so adamant in supporting Ukraine.
It's the same "uniparty" analysis they use to explain everything else, and just like with any good conspiracy there is a kernel of truth in some of their claims, those small kernels are used to sow doubt and division and of course, there is a steady dose of lies, myths and exaggerations that they use to "back up their claims".
So you'll get your typical "Azov proves Ukrainians are Nazis and Putin was right to de-nazifiy them", "Nuland call proves US couped Ukraine" and many other similar BS excuses. Of course, no one really denies that there were and are Nazi supporters in Azov or that Nuland called and discussed who to back after the Euromaidan, but that doesn't mean that Ukrainians are Nazis or that US couped Ukraine, doesn't prevent the tankies from smuggly repeating this. Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent" has some valuable observations, but no, Chomsky or Jeffrey Sachs (I had to look him up, I recognize the face but I couldn't tell you something he's said from memory) aren't a good proxy for my perspective. My perspective comes out of the Radical Black Tradition (no way you don't know this, so picking two old white guys is just funny to me). Toussaint Louverture, W.E.B. Du Bois, C.L.R. James, Claudia Jones, Frantz Fanon, Walter Rodney, Cedric Robinson are some of my historical influences, and I literally recently told you that Dr. Charisse Burden-Stelly and Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor are the kind of people that I support/learn in community with nowadays. On the Nazi part, the whole Stepan Bandera and naming stuff after/using Nazi symbology aspect is not great, but I don't think it "proves Ukrainians are Nazis and Putin was right to de-nazifiy them". It is remarkable how frequently Western media incidentally ends up highlighting neo-nazis and their contributions though. This recent example of a Nazi nugget comes to mind. https://twitter.com/iliterate__/status/2115789090432172037While US support and the promises from McCain were undeniably influential, I don't deny Ukrainians their agency or legitimate motivations for their actions. I don't mind you all disagreeing with me, even intensely, but it seems so wasteful for you to be raging at imagined phantom versions/strawmen of what I think/believe. Nazi nugget? + Show Spoiler +You're a caricature of tankie brainrot. Which part are you objecting to and why? + Show Spoiler +The only thing you're a sucker for is that fascist dick from the Kremlin. You've been pushing Russian propaganda for years. Do you have any actual evidence that this guy is a neo-Nazi? + Show Spoiler + Or did you just see a Twitter comment and jumped the gun? Man, you're a fucking ghoul. It's very telling that you have so much sympathy for 40-year-old men going to another country to murder and torture innocent people for money, but you're not even remotely as charitable towards someone whose country was invaded by a brutal enemy when he was a teenager.
This guy lost four limbs and is still risking his life to fight a fascist dictatorship while you're gleefully cheering for the fascists, LARPing as a revolutionary. Besides the collection of (neo) nazi symbols he proudly displays? Having Azov-related patches makes him a Nazi? + Show Spoiler +You're a twisted piece of shit.
Go fuck yourself, you fascist cock sucker.
What about a (for example) 14th Waffen-SS Division patch is "Azov-related" to you?
Would that be legal to proudly display in Germany?
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United States44415 Posts
On November 03 2026 22:32 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2026 22:31 Jankisa wrote:I like how you completely ignored the part where you have a lot of understanding for Hamas members and them being radicalized but completely ignore how a kid might not really be able to be a fucking Nazi at 20 while his country is being invaded... Speaking of traditions, my actual grand father was a "nazi". + Show Spoiler +He, as a 19 year old was sweeping the streets of Zagreb when Partizans liberated it, he was, with 0 combat or any other experience marched to the Austrian border in order to surrender to the Allies, since Allies didn't want to deal with that they instructed them to surrender to the Yugoslav forces.
Yugoslav forces were naturally a bit pissed at the Croatian collaborationist and more then 65 thousand people got killed, my grandfather made it home, barely, losing 40 % of his body mass on the march back.
When I was around 10, I was taken on a school excursion to that place, that place, Bleiburg, is where a lot of current Croatian neo-nazis go to "pay tribute".
I guess that makes me a Nazi as far as GH is concerned.
Just a horrible myopic view of the world, if this is the nuance your black radical tradition teaches you, maybe that shit is not worth a second of anyone's time. Get em Kwark! EDIT: Just to be clear, the position you and maybe are taking is that most of Hamas are no worse (despite the rhetoric in Western media) than actual nazis fighting for Ukraine getting puff pieces in Western media.
My issue with Magic Powers was his Clean Wehrmacht apologism where he denied systemic ethnic cleansing. That, together with his Austrian heritage, led me to speculate that he may have a grandfather who fought and he might rationally want to invent a lie to reconcile the man and the genocide.
I don’t hate everyone with a Nazi grandpa, my issue is with people excusing and denying the crimes of the Wehrmacht. You can do that without a Nazi grandpa and you can have a Nazi grandpa and still condemn the Wehrmacht. It was never about his grandpa, beyond wondering why he might be motivated to defend the Wehrmacht.
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I'm not seeing the problem with someone who likes Nazi paraphernalia wants to go to the front lines and fight actual fascists in real life.
Probably wouldn't be friends with that guy and yeah, there's a good chance their politics are abhorrent, but "Zelenskyy is making a bunch of Nazis kill each other" is supposed to be a bad thing lol?
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United States44415 Posts
On November 03 2026 23:14 LightSpectra wrote:
I'm not seeing the problem with someone who likes Nazi paraphernalia wants to go to the front lines and fight actual fascists in real life.
Probably wouldn't be friends with that guy and yeah, there's a good chance their politics are abhorrent, but "Zelenskyy is making a bunch of Nazis kill each other" is supposed to be a bad thing lol?
This too. It’s actually my preference that all the people getting shot at are Nazis.
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On November 03 2026 23:14 LightSpectra wrote:
I'm not seeing the problem with someone who likes Nazi paraphernalia wants to go to the front lines and fight actual fascists in real life.
Probably wouldn't be friends with that guy and yeah, there's a good chance their politics are abhorrent, but "Zelenskyy is making a bunch of Nazis kill each other" is supposed to be a bad thing lol?
Well, part of the problem is you can end up with another Stepan Bandera type figure that exploits that experience for political leverage.
This is also a common refrain for the US specifically where we arm far right reactionaries against a geopolitical competitor and they eventually turn the weapons inward/on their neighbors and we either keep supporting their pretty predictable fascist heel turn or we just abandon the people and pretend we had nothing to do with it/it's not our problem (or occasionally engage in more doomed adventurism).
That's not to say this isn't the time that calculation is right, but it is important to recognize the reality of how this typically works out historically so as not to cavalierly believe it can't possibly lead to undesirable outcomes (even if Ukraine ultimately wins outright).
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United States44415 Posts
I think a useful comparison for you to use would be Central Americans adopting Soviet symbols as part of their anti colonial struggle. The USSR was a tyrannical and genocidal regime that was as bad as any in history. It wiped out ethnic groups with weaponized starvation and forced death marches. It practiced slavery on a huge scale, and the use of those slaves was worse than, for example, the American south. To get close to Gulag death rates we need to look at places like the sugar plantations.
But when a Cuban in the 1950s uses Soviet imagery we can understand from context that they’re probably not doing it because they’re fans of slavery. We can give them a little bit of grace and guess that it’s opposition to US colonialism and resource extraction that led them to those symbols. That doesn’t make it okay, of course, but we don’t have to ascribe the absolute worst possible motives to them. Not when there are much more reasonable explanations that make way more sense.
The same logic applies here. I don’t agree with their use of the symbols and my stance on the flammability of Nazis is established. It’s just speculation on what that symbol might mean to them.
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On November 04 2026 00:10 KwarK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I think a useful comparison for you to use would be Central Americans adopting Soviet symbols as part of their anti colonial struggle. The USSR was a tyrannical and genocidal regime that was as bad as any in history. It wiped out ethnic groups with weaponized starvation and forced death marches. It practiced slavery on a huge scale, and the use of those slaves was worse than, for example, the American south. To get close to Gulag death rates we need to look at places like the sugar plantations.
But when a Cuban in the 1950s uses Soviet imagery we can understand from context that they’re probably not doing it because they’re fans of slavery. We can give them a little bit of grace and guess that it’s opposition to US colonialism and resource extraction that led them to those symbols. That doesn’t make it okay, of course, but we don’t have to ascribe the absolute worst possible motives to them. Not when there are much more reasonable explanations that make way more sense. The same logic applies here. I don’t agree with their use of the symbols and my stance on the flammability of Nazis is established. It’s just speculation on what that symbol might mean to them.
Are you talking about the 14th Waffen-SS Division patch example specifically? From what I gather, this person hasn't hidden their far/alt/neonazi-right views/associations.
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United States44415 Posts
And yet he fights against the extremely homophobic Russia in defence of the much more liberal Ukraine. He’s clearly not a single issue gay hating Nazi, his Nazi hatred of Russia beat out his Nazi hatred of gays.
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On November 04 2026 00:50 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2026 23:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 03 2026 23:14 LightSpectra wrote:
I'm not seeing the problem with someone who likes Nazi paraphernalia wants to go to the front lines and fight actual fascists in real life.
Probably wouldn't be friends with that guy and yeah, there's a good chance their politics are abhorrent, but "Zelenskyy is making a bunch of Nazis kill each other" is supposed to be a bad thing lol? Well, part of the problem is you can end up with another Stepan Bandera type figure that exploits that experience for political leverage. This is also a common refrain for the US specifically where we arm far right reactionaries against a geopolitical competitor and they eventually turn the weapons inward/on their neighbors and we either keep supporting their pretty predictable fascist heel turn or we just abandon the people and pretend we had nothing to do with it/it's not our problem (or occasionally engage in more doomed adventurism). That's not to say this isn't the time that calculation is right, but it is important to recognize the reality of how this typically works out historically so as not to cavalierly believe it can't possibly lead to undesirable outcomes (even if Ukraine ultimately wins outright). Show nested quote +On November 04 2026 00:29 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 04 2026 00:10 KwarK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I think a useful comparison for you to use would be Central Americans adopting Soviet symbols as part of their anti colonial struggle. The USSR was a tyrannical and genocidal regime that was as bad as any in history. It wiped out ethnic groups with weaponized starvation and forced death marches. It practiced slavery on a huge scale, and the use of those slaves was worse than, for example, the American south. To get close to Gulag death rates we need to look at places like the sugar plantations.
But when a Cuban in the 1950s uses Soviet imagery we can understand from context that they’re probably not doing it because they’re fans of slavery. We can give them a little bit of grace and guess that it’s opposition to US colonialism and resource extraction that led them to those symbols. That doesn’t make it okay, of course, but we don’t have to ascribe the absolute worst possible motives to them. Not when there are much more reasonable explanations that make way more sense. The same logic applies here. I don’t agree with their use of the symbols and my stance on the flammability of Nazis is established. It’s just speculation on what that symbol might mean to them. Are you talking about the 14th Waffen-SS Division patch example specifically? From what I gather, this person hasn't hidden their far/alt/neonazi-right views/associations. https://twitter.com/lingerence/status/2115642175379927283 And yet he fights against the extremely homophobic Russia in defence of the much more liberal Ukraine. He’s clearly not a single issue gay hating Nazi, his Nazi hatred of Russia beat out his Nazi hatred of gays.
Okay. That's not really a response to the question or the Stepan Bandera type figures/post-war political influence issue I was pointing out.
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The irony of using a Twitter account with a hammer and sickle as a source...
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On November 03 2026 23:05 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2026 22:32 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 03 2026 22:31 Jankisa wrote:I like how you completely ignored the part where you have a lot of understanding for Hamas members and them being radicalized but completely ignore how a kid might not really be able to be a fucking Nazi at 20 while his country is being invaded... Speaking of traditions, my actual grand father was a "nazi". + Show Spoiler +He, as a 19 year old was sweeping the streets of Zagreb when Partizans liberated it, he was, with 0 combat or any other experience marched to the Austrian border in order to surrender to the Allies, since Allies didn't want to deal with that they instructed them to surrender to the Yugoslav forces.
Yugoslav forces were naturally a bit pissed at the Croatian collaborationist and more then 65 thousand people got killed, my grandfather made it home, barely, losing 40 % of his body mass on the march back.
When I was around 10, I was taken on a school excursion to that place, that place, Bleiburg, is where a lot of current Croatian neo-nazis go to "pay tribute".
I guess that makes me a Nazi as far as GH is concerned.
Just a horrible myopic view of the world, if this is the nuance your black radical tradition teaches you, maybe that shit is not worth a second of anyone's time. Get em Kwark! EDIT: Just to be clear, the position you and maybe are taking is that most of Hamas are no worse (despite the rhetoric in Western media) than actual nazis fighting for Ukraine getting puff pieces in Western media. Yes, the actual fucking terrorists kidnapping, dragging women in the streets, raping them, murdering kids and old people, burning people alive are fuckign worse then the people flying drones into other soldiers and military targets who might have some shitty views and patches. Hamas clearly states that it's their strategy that Gazan civilians die because it makes Israel lose legitimacy in the world, Ukrainian soldiers do what they do to defend their civilian population. You are a child.
You gave an olive branch presuming gh is a regular person, gh is not. Anytime a post comes like that it is just a set up for trying to make GH feel important by insulting others. gh “just asks questions”, can only find problems, and only solution is “communism” even though gh has no idea how in practice it would actually solve any problems. GH thinks all the ISSRs problems (including the mass murder and genocides) were either capitalist propaganda or necessary to kill capitalists.
Gh supports Russia because GH is a tankie with no ability for logical reason. Russia was once communist so is good. Ukraine is cozying up to the west, who is a capitalist democracy and is therefore bad. That is GHs entire world view, can only see everything through that lens and the Russian bots speak is truth to GH as long as it makes America the bad guy.
It doesn’t matter how many war crimes Russia commits, like last night attacking a hospital in kharkiv and a hospice in dnipro, on top their regular attacks on civilian heating infrastructure. It doesn’t matter if Russia is doing awful things daily because they are good because they are enemies of USA. The same way GH is all worked up about flock cameras in the USA but thinks China is good with their WAY more flock camera and way more robust surveillance state, including almost unbelievable internet control. Or how GH called everyone genocide supporters for not yelling at the Dems in an online thread, well actively denying the massive ongoing state run genocidal program the Chinese government is running.
GH likes to pretend people don’t like GH, because of his politics. But the reality is it is because GH is an asshole to almost everyone, and doesnt have the moral high ground on a single issue.
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They are immune to irony.
They have a worldview that is completely devoid of nuance, an asshole yelling "genocide deniers" at anyone while denying a genocide of Uyghurs.
They are a moron yelling "Nazi" at 20 year olds with no arms and legs for attending an anti-LGBT gathering while defending Hamas, an organization that executes them.
They think they are well read and nuanced thinker but they get all of their political news from a Nazi led and Nazi infested social network, from other morons also immune to irony LARPING as communists.
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Moss Robeson, by the way, writes for Gray Zone, a Russian propaganda outlet whitewashing the Iranian regime. Here's what you can find when you search for "Russia" on their website:
https://thegrayzone.com/page/1/?s=russia
This is the sort of garbage GH eagerly consumes. ;-)
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When does strawmanning turn into bullying? I understand you don't want to engage or even view his responses in good faith, but come on. It's getting ridiculous with everyone piling on.
Also, Kwark does have a point in the Nazi fighting Russian Nazis more than Nazi'ing more at home. These viewpoints are vile and I'd never want to associate with him, but he is also doing stuff I'm not immediately willing to do and that is killing other people. People that are scarier and more destructive than I'll ever be. He'll never be my friend and I won't applaud him, but he is doing something important. Both truths can be possible.
Fact that some news outlet gave this the light of day is the real problem though. However, it's propaganda. It'll always be vile. But if it gets more Nazis to the front to fight each other, who are we to point out hypocrisy?
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On November 04 2026 01:47 Uldridge wrote:
When does strawmanning turn into bullying? I understand you don't want to engage or even view his responses in good faith, but come on. It's getting ridiculous with everyone piling on.
Also, Kwark does have a point in the Nazi fighting Russian Nazis more than Nazi'ing more at home. These viewpoints are vile and I'd never want to associate with him, but he is also doing stuff I'm not immediately willing to do and that is killing other people. People that are scarier and more destructive than I'll ever be. He'll never be my friend and I won't applaud him, but he is doing something important. Both truths can be possible.
Fact that some news outlet gave this the light of day is the real problem though. However, it's propaganda. It'll always be vile. But if it gets more Nazis to the front to fight each other, who are we to point out hypocrisy?
+ Show Spoiler +If you care enough, GH pronouns'd they/GH some months ago, not he/him. Not at all judgement, totally understandable to not be aware, just sharing.
Also I think I got fucking dizzy trying to track who was 'him', so feel free to ignore me if I'm just stupid. I don't think you think GH is killing people, but I think you were referring to them being strawmanned?
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On November 04 2026 01:47 Uldridge wrote:When does strawmanning turn into bullying? I understand you don't want to engage or even view his responses in good faith, but come on. It's getting ridiculous with everyone piling on. + Show Spoiler +Also, Kwark does have a point in the Nazi fighting Russian Nazis more than Nazi'ing more at home. These viewpoints are vile and I'd never want to associate with him, but he is also doing stuff I'm not immediately willing to do and that is killing other people. People that are scarier and more destructive than I'll ever be. He'll never be my friend and I won't applaud him, but he is doing something important. Both truths can be possible.
Fact that some news outlet gave this the light of day is the real problem though. However, it's propaganda. It'll always be vile. But if it gets more Nazis to the front to fight each other, who are we to point out hypocrisy?
Probably somewhere around here:
On November 03 2026 22:44 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2026 22:31 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 03 2026 16:56 maybenexttime wrote:On November 03 2026 07:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 03 2026 05:53 Jankisa wrote:On November 03 2026 04:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 03 2026 01:40 Jankisa wrote:On November 02 2026 05:50 Billyboy wrote:
Can you provide any evidence of your theory? Eh, never gonna happen. That's partially true. That person specifically knows I'm not going to interact with them directly because I haven't for years (wish people could try that with oBlade types) If you are interested in this worldview explained, you can look up what Chomski or Jeffrey Sachs have to say, it's mostly just typical "anti-imperialist West" bullshit that would make sense if USA wasn't a (relatively) functioning democracy. + Show Spoiler +Basically US, no matter the administration has the agenda of expanding NATO and boxing Russia in, the EU is just a vassal state that does US "deep state/MIC" bidding and this is why EU is so adamant in supporting Ukraine.
It's the same "uniparty" analysis they use to explain everything else, and just like with any good conspiracy there is a kernel of truth in some of their claims, those small kernels are used to sow doubt and division and of course, there is a steady dose of lies, myths and exaggerations that they use to "back up their claims".
So you'll get your typical "Azov proves Ukrainians are Nazis and Putin was right to de-nazifiy them", "Nuland call proves US couped Ukraine" and many other similar BS excuses. Of course, no one really denies that there were and are Nazi supporters in Azov or that Nuland called and discussed who to back after the Euromaidan, but that doesn't mean that Ukrainians are Nazis or that US couped Ukraine, doesn't prevent the tankies from smuggly repeating this. Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent" has some valuable observations, but no, Chomsky or Jeffrey Sachs (I had to look him up, I recognize the face but I couldn't tell you something he's said from memory) aren't a good proxy for my perspective. My perspective comes out of the Radical Black Tradition (no way you don't know this, so picking two old white guys is just funny to me). Toussaint Louverture, W.E.B. Du Bois, C.L.R. James, Claudia Jones, Frantz Fanon, Walter Rodney, Cedric Robinson are some of my historical influences, and I literally recently told you that Dr. Charisse Burden-Stelly and Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor are the kind of people that I support/learn in community with nowadays. On the Nazi part, the whole Stepan Bandera and naming stuff after/using Nazi symbology aspect is not great, but I don't think it "proves Ukrainians are Nazis and Putin was right to de-nazifiy them". It is remarkable how frequently Western media incidentally ends up highlighting neo-nazis and their contributions though. This recent example of a Nazi nugget comes to mind. https://twitter.com/iliterate__/status/2115789090432172037While US support and the promises from McCain were undeniably influential, I don't deny Ukrainians their agency or legitimate motivations for their actions. I don't mind you all disagreeing with me, even intensely, but it seems so wasteful for you to be raging at imagined phantom versions/strawmen of what I think/believe. Thank you GH, that is actually very reasonable and seems way more evolved a viewpoint then back in the few times we interacted in this thread, I can't believe I'm writing this but seems like impressive growth to me. On one hand I appreciate that, on the other, it's not new (just your recognition/understanding is), but that's whatever. One thing that I'd definitely challenge you on there is your tendency to look at everything through that same lens, isn't it more prudent to look at things like this more from the perspective of people who are more affected and might hold more expertise?
Don't you think that getting your news and understanding of a war between 2 99% white countries is a bit reductive?
I'm not even saying that these folks have inaccurate or propagandist views, I'm simply too ignorant on that, but given their biases of suffering under USA regimes over the years they might be a bit biased in interpreting everything the US goverment is doing as sinister.
You misunderstand. That was addressing your terribly misguided understanding of the lens through which I look at global events generally. Black Radical Thought is a relatively easily researchable framework/worldview from which people can pose more informed questions/assumptions about what I believe. Edit: Ew, just saw the caption on the tweet you posted. + Show Spoiler + The guy is 20, his country has been under attack since he was 8 and under full invasion since he was 16, his hands and legs were blown up, perhaps finding a little bit of understanding that someone like that can be very easily radicalized and maybe they aren't a complete piece of shit formed person who you should praise calling nuggets online might be prudent.
For someone who has no issues understanding Hamas fighters you are really having issues doing the same for Ukrainians, it's pretty disappointing.
And you know, Ukrainians unlike Hamas or Russia don't deliberately target civilians and do horrific war crimes as standard operating procedure. I can't endorse the caption, but I can recognize I used "nazi nugget" because I'm a sucker for alliteration. Honestly, f**k a nazi and apologia for them (this shouldn't be a controversial statement). Generally though, the whole BRT lens informs why I don't just empathize with the "nazi nugget" that gets a feel good story on ABC about how they're going to turn a bunch of Russians into pieces. I also empathize with random Russians that have been propagandized and exploited since birth and/or are forced by circumstances beyond their control into compromising situations. But also f**k a Russian "nazi nugget" (especially if they get a feel good media story) too. On November 03 2026 06:26 maybenexttime wrote:On November 03 2026 04:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 03 2026 01:40 Jankisa wrote:On November 02 2026 05:50 Billyboy wrote:
Can you provide any evidence of your theory? Eh, never gonna happen. That's partially true. That person specifically knows I'm not going to interact with them directly because I haven't for years (wish people could try that with oBlade types) If you are interested in this worldview explained, you can look up what Chomski or Jeffrey Sachs have to say, it's mostly just typical "anti-imperialist West" bullshit that would make sense if USA wasn't a (relatively) functioning democracy. + Show Spoiler +Basically US, no matter the administration has the agenda of expanding NATO and boxing Russia in, the EU is just a vassal state that does US "deep state/MIC" bidding and this is why EU is so adamant in supporting Ukraine.
It's the same "uniparty" analysis they use to explain everything else, and just like with any good conspiracy there is a kernel of truth in some of their claims, those small kernels are used to sow doubt and division and of course, there is a steady dose of lies, myths and exaggerations that they use to "back up their claims".
So you'll get your typical "Azov proves Ukrainians are Nazis and Putin was right to de-nazifiy them", "Nuland call proves US couped Ukraine" and many other similar BS excuses. Of course, no one really denies that there were and are Nazi supporters in Azov or that Nuland called and discussed who to back after the Euromaidan, but that doesn't mean that Ukrainians are Nazis or that US couped Ukraine, doesn't prevent the tankies from smuggly repeating this. Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent" has some valuable observations, but no, Chomsky or Jeffrey Sachs (I had to look him up, I recognize the face but I couldn't tell you something he's said from memory) aren't a good proxy for my perspective. My perspective comes out of the Radical Black Tradition (no way you don't know this, so picking two old white guys is just funny to me). Toussaint Louverture, W.E.B. Du Bois, C.L.R. James, Claudia Jones, Frantz Fanon, Walter Rodney, Cedric Robinson are some of my historical influences, and I literally recently told you that Dr. Charisse Burden-Stelly and Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor are the kind of people that I support/learn in community with nowadays. On the Nazi part, the whole Stepan Bandera and naming stuff after/using Nazi symbology aspect is not great, but I don't think it "proves Ukrainians are Nazis and Putin was right to de-nazifiy them". It is remarkable how frequently Western media incidentally ends up highlighting neo-nazis and their contributions though. This recent example of a Nazi nugget comes to mind. https://twitter.com/iliterate__/status/2115789090432172037While US support and the promises from McCain were undeniably influential, I don't deny Ukrainians their agency or legitimate motivations for their actions. I don't mind you all disagreeing with me, even intensely, but it seems so wasteful for you to be raging at imagined phantom versions/strawmen of what I think/believe. Nazi nugget? + Show Spoiler +You're a caricature of tankie brainrot. Which part are you objecting to and why? + Show Spoiler +The only thing you're a sucker for is that fascist dick from the Kremlin. You've been pushing Russian propaganda for years. Do you have any actual evidence that this guy is a neo-Nazi? + Show Spoiler + Or did you just see a Twitter comment and jumped the gun? Man, you're a fucking ghoul. It's very telling that you have so much sympathy for 40-year-old men going to another country to murder and torture innocent people for money, but you're not even remotely as charitable towards someone whose country was invaded by a brutal enemy when he was a teenager.
This guy lost four limbs and is still risking his life to fight a fascist dictatorship while you're gleefully cheering for the fascists, LARPing as a revolutionary. Besides the collection of (neo) nazi symbols he proudly displays? + Show Spoiler +Having Azov-related patches makes him a Nazi? You're a twisted piece of shit. Go fuck yourself, you fascist cock sucker.
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Far right sentiment is reactionary in nature, so yeah if there is an attack by exterior forces against you, you'll get a bunch of far right people responding to that attack. That makes sense to me. At the risk of talking nonsense, I assume it's a large part of the reason why reactionary people exist in terms of evolution.
On November 04 2026 01:47 Uldridge wrote:
When does strawmanning turn into bullying?
A long time ago.
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On November 04 2026 01:47 Uldridge wrote:
When does strawmanning turn into bullying? I understand you don't want to engage or even view his responses in good faith, but come on. It's getting ridiculous with everyone piling on.
GH maliciously edited my post to imply I support murderers so they won't come for me first and won't even own up to it, so fuck 'em, if they wanna act like an extreme bad faith troll every single time they log on until people stop replying to them, that's a problem entirely of their own making.
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On November 04 2026 01:57 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2026 01:47 Uldridge wrote:
When does strawmanning turn into bullying? I understand you don't want to engage or even view his responses in good faith, but come on. It's getting ridiculous with everyone piling on.
Also, Kwark does have a point in the Nazi fighting Russian Nazis more than Nazi'ing more at home. These viewpoints are vile and I'd never want to associate with him, but he is also doing stuff I'm not immediately willing to do and that is killing other people. People that are scarier and more destructive than I'll ever be. He'll never be my friend and I won't applaud him, but he is doing something important. Both truths can be possible.
Fact that some news outlet gave this the light of day is the real problem though. However, it's propaganda. It'll always be vile. But if it gets more Nazis to the front to fight each other, who are we to point out hypocrisy? + Show Spoiler +If you care enough, GH pronouns'd they/GH some months ago, not he/him. Not at all judgement, totally understandable to not be aware, just sharing.
Also I think I got fucking dizzy trying to track who was 'him', so feel free to ignore me if I'm just stupid. I don't think you think GH is killing people, but I think you were referring to them being strawmanned?
Actually it slipped my mind (truly). I used them correctly yesterday, apologies. If that even means anything.
And yes the first "him", which should've been "they" was about GH, everything else was about the Ukranian Nazi.
Also, I understand they're tiring to discuss with. Partly due to the fact they view everything through the lens of them being correct while we're just talking from priviliged power structures and only being false allies because anything we ever want is status quo instead of fighting for a truly more equal society, but meh. I'm not an activist, I'm a pragmatist. Don't have the energy for that shit. I'll be happy to carry GH on my hands or erect a statue in their honor if they get to an equalizing point through the points they've so eloborately went through over and over
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On November 04 2026 01:47 Uldridge wrote:
When does strawmanning turn into bullying? I understand you don't want to engage or even view his responses in good faith, but come on. It's getting ridiculous with everyone piling on.
Also, Kwark does have a point in the Nazi fighting Russian Nazis more than Nazi'ing more at home. These viewpoints are vile and I'd never want to associate with him, but he is also doing stuff I'm not immediately willing to do and that is killing other people. People that are scarier and more destructive than I'll ever be. He'll never be my friend and I won't applaud him, but he is doing something important. Both truths can be possible.
Fact that some news outlet gave this the light of day is the real problem though. However, it's propaganda. It'll always be vile. But if it gets more Nazis to the front to fight each other, who are we to point out hypocrisy?
Where exactly is the straw man?
I don't really care or want to get into the weeds of the KwarK / GH lore enough to go over that one, but calling out shitty behavior, calling people who lost their arms and legs "nuggets" and saying that the person doing that is a shitty hypocrite is not bullying.
Also, I don't fucking care if a news outlet highlighted a guy who wasn't vetted up to the GH/Russian/Communist LARPER standards, the guy is 20 years old, all he knows and all he did was fight in a defensive war for his country, he developed some shitty views and gathered some patches along the way, to my knowledge he is not a war criminal or someone who killed any gay, disabled, Jewish or any other minority of people, so he can be a Nazi sympathizer, he can be a brainwashed moron, but to Ukrainians he's still a fucking hero who gave all of his limbs for his country and wants to go back and give more.
You might want to try to gather all that empathy and try to understand that instead of using it all to berate people for telling GH to fuck off after he comes to a thread to call disabled people nuggets.
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EPT
