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On July 02 2026 15:14 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2026 12:01 ETisME wrote:
Japan PM always visits the yasukuni shrine, a lot of "deep regret" from Korea and other Asian countries but thats about it.
Ukraine needs its soldiers, what do we expect them to do? Recall and suspend them?
I understand the Poland stance, but until they join in the war effort with boots on ground, I think it's fair to say all these should all be just a "deep regret" statement. What Japan is doing is equally stupid. So far the fallout is limited to diplomacy, but if Ukraine refuses to come clean, Poland is likely to veto their EU accession. There is speculation that corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs are inflaming the tensions precisely for that reason. Joining the EU would entail severely limiting their power, and by pushing Poland to veto Ukraine's accession, they would have a nice scapegoat.
Honest question: What do these corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs want, like what is the goal? I mean this is already undermining the war effort. Do they want Russia to win?
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On July 02 2026 17:23 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2026 17:12 KwarK wrote:On July 02 2026 16:58 ETisME wrote:On July 02 2026 15:14 maybenexttime wrote:On July 02 2026 12:01 ETisME wrote:
Japan PM always visits the yasukuni shrine, a lot of "deep regret" from Korea and other Asian countries but thats about it.
Ukraine needs its soldiers, what do we expect them to do? Recall and suspend them?
I understand the Poland stance, but until they join in the war effort with boots on ground, I think it's fair to say all these should all be just a "deep regret" statement. What Japan is doing is equally stupid. So far the fallout is limited to diplomacy, but if Ukraine refuses to come clean, Poland is likely to veto their EU accession. There is speculation that corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs are inflaming the tensions precisely for that reason. Joining the EU would entail severely limiting their power, and by pushing Poland to veto Ukraine's accession, they would have a nice scapegoat. As someone from Asia, I can tell you most of us think EU should be begging Ukraine to join it, not the other way around. Frankly what more credentials do Ukraine need to prove it is worthy to join? I mean there's all the actual EU requirements that they don't meet. This isn't pulling a sword from a stone. Did you not know that? If this was under normal circumstances, sure. What do you think EU-Ukraine Association Agreement is? Why do you think it exists? the EU should be helping Ukraine to get in because it should want Ukraine to be in. It's literally fighting Russia and has the best drone tech and military experience on the field.
Those are arguments in favor of integrating Ukraine into NATO. Not the european union.
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Disclaimer - these are just my thoughts, not a stance against Ukraine joining EU.
Letting Ukraine into EU - with freedom of movement - might kinda hurt Ukraine's rebuilding effort after the war in a way.
If someone is not super-patriotic, and they can go anywhere in EU, and now there are diasporas of Ukrainian immigrants and refugees in many countries that can help them with moving there - maybe these people will prefer to build their new life in Poland / Germany / Sweden instead of half-ruined motherland.
Can't this create an outgoing flow of workforce out of Ukraine into EU countries?
I'm already not sure how many people will want to go back to the eastern areas which are in especially bad shape and were under occupation for long time. It will be harder to get things going there and get comfortable - if my house / appartment has been destroyed, who will rebuild it and how much time it can take?
And it's close to the border so, you know, can be risky or at least less comfortable emotionally.
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I have a few thoughts.
First is that it's very disappointing that folks who I, from my limited readings of their posts or interactions with find generally rational and normal people seem to be up at arms over this nationalistic, historical bullshit that has 0 things to do with the real world or present times, unfortunately, since it's working on them it must be very effective on the PiS crowds.
As compared to Ukrainians who I work with who really don't care about this and just care about, you know, staying safe and surviving and are fairly critical of their government's actions, but still get them given that this is about appeasing people who are the ones putting their lives on the line.
From my experience, a lot of people who left Croatia during the war came back and rebuilt, people who are forced out of their homes usually want to come back, they usually also take refuge in richer countries and make money that they couldn't at home and this helps them with the rebuilding, plus, there are a lot of goverment subsidies and programs to encourage re-migration after wars like this.
On the other hand, the biggest chunk of our dwindling population did bounce after we joined EU, so, overall I'd say that the whole thing might net out about neutral population wise, but there are so many other, insanely beneficial advantages of being in EU that I'm all for Ukraine ascending ASAP.
In the end, this all started with Euromaidan, it would be nice if it ended with actual Euro integration.
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EPT
