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KwarK
United States42794 Posts
On August 19 2025 11:12 ETisME wrote: I didn't say they deployed troops to Ukraine? I meant they aren't exactly subtle about what their security guarantee plan is You presented the decision not to have German troops fighting in Ukraine as some sort of milestone or pivot. | ||
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ETisME
12435 Posts
On August 19 2025 11:46 KwarK wrote: You presented the decision not to have German troops fighting in Ukraine as some sort of milestone or pivot. "German Foreign Minister Johann Wadephul said that his country can play an important role in providing security guarantees for Ukraine, but that Berlin likely doesn't have the capacity to send troops to the embattled country." We are moving towards closer to discuss what security guarantee would look like. I am saying Germany picked a strange timing to say this out loud. | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2630 Posts
On August 19 2025 12:32 ETisME wrote: "German Foreign Minister Johann Wadephul said that his country can play an important role in providing security guarantees for Ukraine, but that Berlin likely doesn't have the capacity to send troops to the embattled country." We are moving towards closer to discuss what security guarantee would look like. I am saying Germany picked a strange timing to say this out loud. Trump has previously said he's not sending any troops to Ukraine. Obviously Europe is not doing this without guarantees that the US enter the war if Russia breaks the peace. That means either NATO for Ukraine (ruled out) or US tripwire troops on the ground. I don't think anyone will settle for words on a paper unless it's a constitutional amendment. So going public with no German troops makes sense. It's like with the tanks, Trump can sell it as he had to send a few troops to get the europeans to step up. | ||
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ETisME
12435 Posts
On August 19 2025 13:41 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Trump has previously said he's not sending any troops to Ukraine. Obviously Europe is not doing this without guarantees that the US enter the war if Russia breaks the peace. That means either NATO for Ukraine (ruled out) or US tripwire troops on the ground. I don't think anyone will settle for words on a paper unless it's a constitutional amendment. So going public with no German troops makes sense. It's like with the tanks, Trump can sell it as he had to send a few troops to get the europeans to step up. Not necessarily. Didn't UK step up and said they would consider deploying troops for Ukraine security guarantee etc? I myself can't imagine US going direct war with Russia over Ukraine for an unspecific length of time but we shall see. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5580 Posts
On August 19 2025 08:11 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Gonna be honest. Wasnt expecting Trump to be the one getting this conflict ( Paused/Resolved ) I mean hell. Not long ago he fcking striked Iran nuclear plants or w.e.and i was like shit. Looks like another one about to start. Hopefully this time a deal can be done and Ukraine will back to a life were being under siege isnt the norm after 3.5 years. So many young lives going to dust is actually so sad. Whole generations fucked. Truly a tragedy. What are you even talking about? He hasn't made this conflict one bit closer to being paused or resolved. All he's ever done was make it longer by weakening Ukraine's position by blocking aid and further sanctions. His staff is too fucking incompetent to negotiate anything. After his Moscow visit, Witkoff said Russia was willing to withdraw from Kherson and Zaporizhzhia in exchange for Donbas. A few days later Russia denied that. After Alaska, Witkoff claimed Russia agreed to Western peace-keeping troops to be deployed in Ukraine. A day later Russia categorically denied that. | ||
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ETisME
12435 Posts
On August 19 2025 08:11 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Gonna be honest. Wasnt expecting Trump to be the one getting this conflict ( Paused/Resolved ) I mean hell. Not long ago he fcking striked Iran nuclear plants or w.e.and i was like shit. Looks like another one about to start. Hopefully this time a deal can be done and Ukraine will back to a life were being under siege isnt the norm after 3.5 years. So many young lives going to dust is actually so sad. Whole generations fucked. Truly a tragedy. "I think in the past two weeks, we've probably had more progress in ending this war than we have in the past three-and-a-half years." Great slogan but also very true. Which nation really pushed hard for talks? Some gave proposals and then ended it there, like China. EU and Biden were more about giving arms and sleep walked into an endless pit and not knowing how to stop. It's unfortunate how long it took to get them accept reality that Ukraine isn't going to recapture all the lost land, Russia isn't collapsing as predicted, or crying "justice" "existential crisis" ain't enough | ||
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KwarK
United States42794 Posts
Putin won’t stop while he still has tanks in stockpiles and men willing to die for him. Why would he? He wants all of the land, he has blood to trade for it. The war will only stop when Russia runs out of the means to wage war. It’s been getting closer to an end with every drop of Russian blood spilled. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10727 Posts
On August 19 2025 16:26 ETisME wrote: "I think in the past two weeks, we've probably had more progress in ending this war than we have in the past three-and-a-half years." Great slogan but also very true. Which nation really pushed hard for talks? Some gave proposals and then ended it there, like China. EU and Biden were more about giving arms and sleep walked into an endless pit and not knowing how to stop. It's unfortunate how long it took to get them accept reality that Ukraine isn't going to recapture all the lost land, Russia isn't collapsing as predicted, or crying "justice" "existential crisis" ain't enough Shit all was done so far. Trump gave Putin a nice foto OP, like he did with Kim. While this was happening, Putin actively bombed civilians. Putin doesn't seem to be one bit interested in Peace, he's just checking if Trump can somehow bully Ukraine to surrender whiteout getting security guarantees. Trump is a usefull Idiot for Putin, nothing more. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17278 Posts
On August 19 2025 16:26 ETisME wrote: "I think in the past two weeks, we've probably had more progress in ending this war than we have in the past three-and-a-half years." Great slogan but also very true. Which nation really pushed hard for talks? Some gave proposals and then ended it there, like China. EU and Biden were more about giving arms and sleep walked into an endless pit and not knowing how to stop. It's unfortunate how long it took to get them accept reality that Ukraine isn't going to recapture all the lost land, Russia isn't collapsing as predicted, or crying "justice" "existential crisis" ain't enough It's actually only Trump and Russia that want this "peace" on Russian terms. Ukraine is not interested in peace on those terms and EU is fully behind it - that's why you don't see EU make much comments on it, they just decided to fall in behind Zelensky and make him the representative. This is a clear signal that whatever Ukraine wants the EU is backing them up, no questions asked. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5580 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/html_modules/2025/08_AUG/250818_Russia_Demands_Ukraine03/250818_Russia_Demands_Ukraine03-large.png) They demand the entirety of Donbas, with Ukrainian fortifications, which would take them years to take, with massive casualties and complete loss of Soviet equipment stock, in exchange for a few slivers of land at the border. This isn't a good faith proposal. It's merely an attempt by Putin to signal to Trump that he's engaged in peace negotiations. | ||
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ETisME
12435 Posts
On August 19 2025 16:51 Manit0u wrote: It's actually only Trump and Russia that want this "peace" on Russian terms. Ukraine is not interested in peace on those terms and EU is fully behind it - that's why you don't see EU make much comments on it, they just decided to fall in behind Zelensky and make him the representative. This is a clear signal that whatever Ukraine wants the EU is backing them up, no questions asked. You are saying "want" as if they have a good choice. They are stuck with bad options only because frankly they would never be able to recapture all the lost lands (unless Russia collapses like they hoped) I want to get rid of CCP and I have to settle for far less. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21712 Posts
Eu leaders are verbally fellating Trump to stoke his ego to stop the US from pulling out and that is a win, I guess. | ||
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Luolis
Finland7110 Posts
On August 19 2025 16:26 ETisME wrote: "I think in the past two weeks, we've probably had more progress in ending this war than we have in the past three-and-a-half years." Great slogan but also very true. Which nation really pushed hard for talks? Some gave proposals and then ended it there, like China. EU and Biden were more about giving arms and sleep walked into an endless pit and not knowing how to stop. It's unfortunate how long it took to get them accept reality that Ukraine isn't going to recapture all the lost land, Russia isn't collapsing as predicted, or crying "justice" "existential crisis" ain't enough In your hypothetical where we get this peace, which country are you ready to sacrifice next when Russia decides that "hey, it seems like we *can* get what we want with military force"? | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17278 Posts
On August 19 2025 17:34 Gorsameth wrote: Its unbelievably sad that this is being touted as a big step when its all just entirely hollow. Countries being willing to work on security guarantees for when the war is over means nothing when there is absolutely no end of the war in sight. Eu leaders are verbally fellating Trump to stoke his ego to stop the US from pulling out and that is a win, I guess. What do you mean by "stop the US from pulling out"? US has provided no aid to Ukraine under Trump. As far as EU and UA are concerned the US pulled out half a year ago. If anything they want to pull US back in but sadly Trump seems to be siding with Russia. | ||
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ETisME
12435 Posts
On August 19 2025 18:15 Luolis wrote: In your hypothetical where we get this peace, which country are you ready to sacrifice next when Russia decides that "hey, it seems like we *can* get what we want with military force"? and tomorrow there can be an alien invasion and Russia fight it off with Ukraine's help. Hypothetically speaking, are you going to front line to push back and recapture lost terrains or you gonna sit tight and wait for more land loss from Ukraine like it's been for last couple of years while hoping for Russia collapses? The latter is more of a realistic question tbh | ||
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ETisME
12435 Posts
On August 19 2025 18:35 Manit0u wrote: What do you mean by "stop the US from pulling out"? US has provided no aid to Ukraine under Trump. As far as EU and UA are concerned the US pulled out half a year ago. If anything they want to pull US back in but sadly Trump seems to be siding with Russia. ? www.bbc.com/news/articles/crl04200dp4o.amp Did I miss something? https://www.npr.org/2025/08/05/g-s1-81084/europe-us-weapons-ukraine-russia-war Why did Europe pay US for weapons if they ain't delivering? | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5580 Posts
On August 19 2025 20:34 ETisME wrote: ? www.bbc.com/news/articles/crl04200dp4o.amp Did I miss something? https://www.npr.org/2025/08/05/g-s1-81084/europe-us-weapons-ukraine-russia-war Why did Europe pay US for weapons if they ain't delivering? You really are clueless. The aid from the first link was passed by Biden's government. As for the second link, Europe buying equipment from the US =/= US providing aid for Ukraine. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10727 Posts
Weapons the EU paid for are EU aid, no matter who built them. Weapons Ukraine pais for aren't aid. | ||
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Luolis
Finland7110 Posts
On August 19 2025 20:33 ETisME wrote: and tomorrow there can be an alien invasion and Russia fight it off with Ukraine's help. Hypothetically speaking, are you going to front line to push back and recapture lost terrains or you gonna sit tight and wait for more land loss from Ukraine like it's been for last couple of years while hoping for Russia collapses? The latter is more of a realistic question tbh We know Russia is an aggressive imperialist country that wants to return to it's perceived "former glory". If they get what they want in Ukraine, they will absolutely continue on their way. It's true that the EU and US should immediately have put boots on ground for Ukraine and we're still not helping enough. However, capitulating to Russia's demands (especially considering Ukraine, the sovereign country defending itself, sure doesnt want that) is just letting Russia take a breather before testing the ice again. Speaking of the frontline question, who knows, if we go with what you think is reasonable, yeah that time could come for me in the future (though i dont think our military has uses for me, other than being a human minesweeper). | ||
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ETisME
12435 Posts
On August 19 2025 20:48 maybenexttime wrote: You really are clueless. The aid from the first link was passed by Biden's government. As for the second link, Europe buying equipment from the US =/= US providing aid for Ukraine. the US literally cut off aids to Ukraine, so it doesn't matter which gov signed off the aid. And sure, so I guess this whole thing is not how US is aiding Ukraine. https://www.politico.com/news/2025/07/14/trump-sends-weapons-ukraine-00451109 https://www.kyivpost.com/post/51800 Yes, paying for arms for US weapon, is US supporting Ukraine because EU literally need those weapons and US willing to supply. Same way I see EU funding Russia invasion by buying their energy supply. not a hard one to grasp. | ||
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