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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
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United States44400 Posts
On March 03 2022 07:34 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2022 07:30 deacon.frost wrote:So, our news just released information that Ukrainian forces won't take artillery soldiers into captivity and will be shot at place. Source in Czech in spoiler(it's a live feed, so it may be on the next page in the case too many things gonna happen + Show Spoiler +I wasn't able to verify this information, anybody heard anything in their news? And if true isn't this a war crime? Edit> OK, found the source So long as they are shooting up residential areas and infrastructure, this feels entirely appropriate. Russia is the absolute bad guy in this scenario without question.
It’s still a war crime to execute prisoners, this is the two wrongs make a right thing.
But I doubt it’s an official statement of policy, more like bombast from an individual.
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Czech Republic12134 Posts
On March 03 2022 07:34 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2022 07:30 deacon.frost wrote:So, our news just released information that Ukrainian forces won't take artillery soldiers into captivity and will be shot at place. Source in Czech in spoiler(it's a live feed, so it may be on the next page in the case too many things gonna happen + Show Spoiler +I wasn't able to verify this information, anybody heard anything in their news? And if true isn't this a war crime? Edit> OK, found the source https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1499142093381513217 So long as they are shooting up residential areas and infrastructure, this feels entirely appropriate. Russia is the absolute bad guy in this scenario without question.
Well, if it is a warcrime and the west is sanctioning Russia for warcrimes and declares warcrimes are bad, isn't this hypocritical over 9k? To not condemn this?
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Northern Ireland27467 Posts
On March 03 2022 07:34 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2022 07:30 deacon.frost wrote:So, our news just released information that Ukrainian forces won't take artillery soldiers into captivity and will be shot at place. Source in Czech in spoiler(it's a live feed, so it may be on the next page in the case too many things gonna happen + Show Spoiler +I wasn't able to verify this information, anybody heard anything in their news? And if true isn't this a war crime? Edit> OK, found the source https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1499142093381513217 So long as they are shooting up residential areas and infrastructure, this feels entirely appropriate. Russia is the absolute bad guy in this scenario without question.
There’s a reason these rules of engagement exist. Aside from well, showing some humaneness when one stops observing them a swift increase in barbarism ensues as the gloves come off and things escalate yet further.
Aside from any of those considerations, I can see this being counter-productive if adopted more widely.
If I’m Josef Smith in the Russian army, I may not even be exactly happy to be there in the first place, my morale may not be super high that I’m here, doing this. I will sure as fuck fight to my last rather than surrender arms if capture means I am getting executed anyway.
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Sounds sketchy. A few day ago, Ukraine tried to convince russian soldiers to surrender by offering money. Now they say "if you surrender we may shoot you anyway"? That doesnt make much sense.
Apart from that, publicy announcing you intend to commit warcrimes wont exactly help the cause of getting further support from nato/eu countries.
Oh, and even some of your own soldiers might not be too keen of being involved in war crimes either.
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Czech Republic12134 Posts
On March 03 2022 07:50 Mafe wrote:
Sounds sketchy. A few day ago, Ukraine tried to convince russian soldiers to surrender by offering money. Now they say "if you surrender we may shoot you anyway"? That doesnt make much sense.
Apart from that, publicy announcing you intend to commit warcrimes wont exactly help the cause of getting further support from nato/eu countries.
Oh, and even some of your own soldiers might not be too keen of being involved in war crimes either.
Well, to be fair, I would rather have some more official sources. This sounds iffy, that's why I ask if any other media covered it. But I am too young to google in cyrillice and so far it appears no other media noticed it. I hope this will get retrieved.
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On March 03 2022 07:50 Mafe wrote:
Sounds sketchy. A few day ago, Ukraine tried to convince russian soldiers to surrender by offering money. Now they say "if you surrender we may shoot you anyway"? That doesnt make much sense.
Apart from that, publicy announcing you intend to commit warcrimes wont exactly help the cause of getting further support from nato/eu countries.
Oh, and even some of your own soldiers might not be too keen of being involved in war crimes either.
I agree, this sudden switch doesn’t really add up, especially after accommodating surrender has been so well reported on. If true, it’s as awful as it is counterproductive, but this sort of thing is exactly the kind of information warfare Russia loves. Skepticism is warranted here.
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The reason for the change in tone is due to the constant shelling of civilian buildings including homes, schools and kindergardens, all of which can't be considered military targets.
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On March 03 2022 07:36 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2022 07:34 Mohdoo wrote:On March 03 2022 07:30 deacon.frost wrote:So, our news just released information that Ukrainian forces won't take artillery soldiers into captivity and will be shot at place. Source in Czech in spoiler(it's a live feed, so it may be on the next page in the case too many things gonna happen + Show Spoiler +I wasn't able to verify this information, anybody heard anything in their news? And if true isn't this a war crime? Edit> OK, found the source https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1499142093381513217 So long as they are shooting up residential areas and infrastructure, this feels entirely appropriate. Russia is the absolute bad guy in this scenario without question. It’s still a war crime to execute prisoners, this is the two wrongs make a right thing. But I doubt it’s an official statement of policy, more like bombast from an individual.
Oh, well that's news to me. You're saying its illegal to kill people rather than take prisoners? What about the thousands of people who were already killed?
My take on that Tweet was that rather than going through the trouble of trying to subdue/capture people, they are just gonna take the easy way out and shoot them on the spot rather than capture them. So its not so much killing a prisoner as not taking the prisoner to begin with.
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On March 03 2022 09:00 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2022 07:36 KwarK wrote:On March 03 2022 07:34 Mohdoo wrote:On March 03 2022 07:30 deacon.frost wrote:So, our news just released information that Ukrainian forces won't take artillery soldiers into captivity and will be shot at place. Source in Czech in spoiler(it's a live feed, so it may be on the next page in the case too many things gonna happen + Show Spoiler +I wasn't able to verify this information, anybody heard anything in their news? And if true isn't this a war crime? Edit> OK, found the source https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1499142093381513217 So long as they are shooting up residential areas and infrastructure, this feels entirely appropriate. Russia is the absolute bad guy in this scenario without question. It’s still a war crime to execute prisoners, this is the two wrongs make a right thing. But I doubt it’s an official statement of policy, more like bombast from an individual. Oh, well that's news to me. You're saying its illegal to kill people rather than take prisoners? What about the thousands of people who were already killed? My take on that Tweet was that rather than going through the trouble of trying to subdue/capture people, they are just gonna take the easy way out and shoot them on the spot rather than capture them. So its not so much killing a prisoner as not taking the prisoner to begin with.
It’s a war crime to kill soldiers who unequivocally indicate that they have surrendered, be it through raised arms, waving a white flag, or something similar.
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On March 03 2022 09:03 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2022 09:00 Mohdoo wrote:On March 03 2022 07:36 KwarK wrote:On March 03 2022 07:34 Mohdoo wrote:On March 03 2022 07:30 deacon.frost wrote:So, our news just released information that Ukrainian forces won't take artillery soldiers into captivity and will be shot at place. Source in Czech in spoiler(it's a live feed, so it may be on the next page in the case too many things gonna happen + Show Spoiler +I wasn't able to verify this information, anybody heard anything in their news? And if true isn't this a war crime? Edit> OK, found the source https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1499142093381513217 So long as they are shooting up residential areas and infrastructure, this feels entirely appropriate. Russia is the absolute bad guy in this scenario without question. It’s still a war crime to execute prisoners, this is the two wrongs make a right thing. But I doubt it’s an official statement of policy, more like bombast from an individual. Oh, well that's news to me. You're saying its illegal to kill people rather than take prisoners? What about the thousands of people who were already killed? My take on that Tweet was that rather than going through the trouble of trying to subdue/capture people, they are just gonna take the easy way out and shoot them on the spot rather than capture them. So its not so much killing a prisoner as not taking the prisoner to begin with. It’s a war crime to kill soldiers who unequivocally indicate that they have surrendered, be it through raised arms, waving a white flag, or something similar.
Gotcha. I think I misread the original tweet. If Ukraine is just openly saying they will commit war crimes, I am skeptical. Are they themselves saying this?
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United States44400 Posts
On March 03 2022 09:00 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2022 07:36 KwarK wrote:On March 03 2022 07:34 Mohdoo wrote:On March 03 2022 07:30 deacon.frost wrote:So, our news just released information that Ukrainian forces won't take artillery soldiers into captivity and will be shot at place. Source in Czech in spoiler(it's a live feed, so it may be on the next page in the case too many things gonna happen + Show Spoiler +I wasn't able to verify this information, anybody heard anything in their news? And if true isn't this a war crime? Edit> OK, found the source https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1499142093381513217 So long as they are shooting up residential areas and infrastructure, this feels entirely appropriate. Russia is the absolute bad guy in this scenario without question. It’s still a war crime to execute prisoners, this is the two wrongs make a right thing. But I doubt it’s an official statement of policy, more like bombast from an individual. Oh, well that's news to me. You're saying its illegal to kill people rather than take prisoners? What about the thousands of people who were already killed? My take on that Tweet was that rather than going through the trouble of trying to subdue/capture people, they are just gonna take the easy way out and shoot them on the spot rather than capture them. So its not so much killing a prisoner as not taking the prisoner to begin with.
You can’t not take prisoners without killing people that would otherwise be prisoners. It’s a war crime. But I don’t think it was an official policy statement.
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I fully expect it to just be someone that is understandably very angry. And I have no doubt that plenty of Ukraine soldiers will not care about war crimes when they come face to face with people who shelled civilians but Official policy? no.
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The tweet in question, about killing pow, was deleted and rewritten
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On March 03 2022 06:57 Emnjay808 wrote:
While I believe placing sanctions against Russia is a good response by the west, it really just hurts all of Russia (not just the oligarchs). Do we really think this is effective against someone like Putin? He seems all in on Ukraine, and the last thing he wants is for them to turn NATO and have them knocking on their borders.
What other response is there if military is off the table? Still, bringing Russia's economy to its knees should hinder Putin's ability to wage war, yes, and also hurt his domestic support. It's unfortunate that the Russian people are hurt as well, but I don't see what other options we have.
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On March 03 2022 07:26 FreakyDroid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2022 04:16 Sadist wrote:On March 03 2022 04:07 Mohdoo wrote:Since the next phase of the war would essentially just be slaughtering people, and Europe is already supplying weapons and stuff, I can't help but assume/hope some country(s) will actually fight with Russia. With everything that has happened so far, it feels inconceivable Europe would just watch Ukraine get wiped out. I dont think it happens. Nuclear weapons are a serious detractor. I dont think you can blame anyone for being hesitant to have direct confrontation with Russia. Well there is another way, but it has to come from inside Russia. If people there decide to overthrow Putin, they can stop this. I dont see how Nato or EU can get involved without escalating into a World war or possibly a nuclear war. This Putin dude is insane, but probably not that insane to bomb his own people.
You'd be surpised how many great citizens of Russia suffered because of this maniac. He literally blew his citizens in civil houses in order to take more control through new "antiterrorist laws". Just out of curiousty google "Ryazan sugarbags".
In addition: Beslan, Nord-Ost (free russian media was captured during those period), the state killed multiple journalists (Vlad Listyev was one of those during mid/late 90s; Arkhan Jemal - free journalist from Chechnya was killed alongside 2 colleagues during investigation of Vagner group activity and influence on "civil war" in Congo, that was a couple of years ago). Multiple poisonings: Litvanenko was probably the biggest screamer, I advise you to take a look at this doc on youtube, Skripal family, Alexey Navanly. Cold blood assasination of incredible Boris Nemtsov. That's just a tip of iceberg.
In regards to my current situation, on a 3rd day of rocket strikes we could not take it anymore. The horror of flying jets and rockets in our sky is just hard to describe. Grads, artillery and gunfire is just nothing in comparison. Unfortunately I cannot enter territorial defence and cannot get my gun, so the choice was either to stay and wait if our home will get bombarded or trying to evacuate. We decided the latter by the train. It was a challenge to get on. Do you remember Titanic evacuation scene? Our was uglier but w/o casualties fortunately. My family and two cats are almost in Kyiv and we are moving to the western border of Ukraine passing by out capital. I've also convinced 6 if my friends to join us, they are evacuating as well, but on another train. Trains are stacked with people af, and we are tired so much after a week of hell. Lost a few kilos already due to stress and lack of appetite.
They still continuing shelling my beautiful city targeting civilians, infrastructure, supermarkets. Today they shot at an old cathedral in the center if the city, dropped rockets on civil governmental buildings and one of the buildings of Karazin university. I'm so pissed of that, what a morons and barbarians. They does it during the night as well...
So my biggest dream for now is to comeback to Kharkiv once it's over, to bring fundings for restoration and rebuild the city, make it even better, make it even more open for international public. I'll work on my own project and will share this idea with you guys to get some criticism. Hoping to get funds for such purposes from the west, but most importantly from reparations, this is fair.
What disturbs me the most is safety of my elders (mom, dad, grandmom) as they decided to stay. I worry for them and hoping to see them again, hoping they will be lucky and safe. I advised them to move to our familty apartment while we are absent, as it looks like safer place in comparison, plus we stored food/water supply in advance.
Fingers crossed for the best!
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Holy fucking shit. Just reading your account makes me nauseous, and you're making your way to safety. I'm grateful you're able to do that much, and I hope you can continue to stay safe. I hope so for your family as well. I don't have great words for this, but my heart goes out to all you folks.
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So glad you and your family are getting out. Kept reading reports of fighting and bombing and khakiv and was wondering how you were doing. So terrible that they are targeting civilian buildings and infrastructure.
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Northern Ireland27467 Posts
On March 03 2022 10:06 Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2022 07:26 FreakyDroid wrote:On March 03 2022 04:16 Sadist wrote:On March 03 2022 04:07 Mohdoo wrote:Since the next phase of the war would essentially just be slaughtering people, and Europe is already supplying weapons and stuff, I can't help but assume/hope some country(s) will actually fight with Russia. With everything that has happened so far, it feels inconceivable Europe would just watch Ukraine get wiped out. I dont think it happens. Nuclear weapons are a serious detractor. I dont think you can blame anyone for being hesitant to have direct confrontation with Russia. Well there is another way, but it has to come from inside Russia. If people there decide to overthrow Putin, they can stop this. I dont see how Nato or EU can get involved without escalating into a World war or possibly a nuclear war. This Putin dude is insane, but probably not that insane to bomb his own people. You'd be surpised how many great citizens of Russia suffered because of this maniac. He literally blew his citizens in civil houses in order to take more control through new "antiterrorist laws". Just out of curiousty google "Ryazan sugarbags". In addition: Beslan, Nord-Ost (free russian media was captured during those period), the state killed multiple journalists (Vlad Listyev was one of those during mid/late 90s; Arkhan Jemal - free journalist from Chechnya was killed alongside 2 colleagues during investigation of Vagner group activity and influence on "civil war" in Congo, that was a couple of years ago). Multiple poisonings: Litvanenko was probably the biggest screamer, I advise you to take a look at this doc on youtube, Skripal family, Alexey Navanly. Cold blood assasination of incredible Boris Nemtsov. That's just a tip of iceberg. In regards to my current situation, on a 3rd day of rocket strikes we could not take it anymore. The horror of flying jets and rockets in our sky is just hard to describe. Grads, artillery and gunfire is just nothing in comparison. Unfortunately I cannot enter territorial defence and cannot get my gun, so the choice was either to stay and wait if our home will get bombarded or trying to evacuate. We decided the latter by the train. It was a challenge to get on. Do you remember Titanic evacuation scene? Our was uglier but w/o casualties fortunately. My family and two cats are almost in Kyiv and we are moving to the western border of Ukraine passing by out capital. I've also convinced 6 if my friends to join us, they are evacuating as well, but on another train. Trains are stacked with people af, and we are tired so much after a week of hell. Lost a few kilos already due to stress and lack of appetite. They still continuing shelling my beautiful city targeting civilians, infrastructure, supermarkets. Today they shot at an old cathedral in the center if the city, dropped rockets on civil governmental buildings and one of the buildings of Karazin university. I'm so pissed of that, what a morons and barbarians. They does it during the night as well... So my biggest dream for now is to comeback to Kharkiv once it's over, to bring fundings for restoration and rebuild the city, make it even better, make it even more open for international public. I'll work on my own project and will share this idea with you guys to get some criticism. Hoping to get funds for such purposes from the west, but most importantly from reparations, this is fair. What disturbs me the most is safety of my elders (mom, dad, grandmom) as they decided to stay. I worry for them and hoping to see them again, hoping they will be lucky and safe. I advised them to move to our familty apartment while we are absent, as it looks like safer place in comparison, plus we stored food/water supply in advance. Fingers crossed for the best!
Jesus, may you and your clan stay safe brother.
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Kharkiv is a hero city that I won't forget. No matter what Putin does now he will never destroy the Ukrainian people and will never be able to have his sins forgotten. People will never be able to deny that Ukraine exists and is worthy of being free and independent. For what little it will do I will pray for your family and your safety.
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EPT
