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Russo-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 147

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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
SSIII
Profile Joined June 2022
China60 Posts
June 25 2022 00:48 GMT
#2921
We should stop talking about China here, there is another thread for it. The Chinese don't want to pick a side, we don't expect the world to divide into camps, we want to get along well with both Russians and the West. However, as the old Chinese saying goes"the tree may crave calm, but the wind will not dropp "
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
June 25 2022 02:15 GMT
#2922
--- Nuked ---
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14108 Posts
June 25 2022 03:48 GMT
#2923
You can't just act like China shouldn't be talked about in this war when their government has supported them publically. Something about no limits to their friendship treaty?

If you want to be treated like a big boy on the world stage you need to accept that people will treat you like a big boy. Otherwise isolate yourself and stop trading with the world.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
SSIII
Profile Joined June 2022
China60 Posts
June 25 2022 04:33 GMT
#2924
A stab on the back of your friend sounds like a big boy action?
Come on, we all know who is the target if Russia fell.
We don't want to pick a side, but we have to. Zelensky recently said he is satisfied with China's choice,which means, in my comprehension, -had not supportted Russia openly.
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4783 Posts
June 25 2022 04:52 GMT
#2925
On June 25 2022 13:33 SSIII wrote:
A stab on the back of your friend sounds like a big boy action?
Come on, we all know who is the target if Russia fell.
We don't want to pick a side, but we have to. Zelensky recently said he is satisfied with China's choice,which means, in my comprehension, -had not supportted Russia openly.


If your friend commits crimes against humanity, I think it is appropriate to stop being friends with them...
SSIII
Profile Joined June 2022
China60 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-06-25 12:31:16
June 25 2022 12:27 GMT
#2926
On June 25 2022 13:52 Ghostcom wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 25 2022 13:33 SSIII wrote:
A stab on the back of your friend sounds like a big boy action?
Come on, we all know who is the target if Russia fell.
We don't want to pick a side, but we have to. Zelensky recently said he is satisfied with China's choice,which means, in my comprehension, -had not supportted Russia openly.


If your friend commits crimes against humanity, I think it is appropriate to stop being friends with them...

Why your country did not quit NATO when NATO killed at least tens of thousands civilians in Asia? Is it not against humanity because the people you killed are not 'civilized' humans?
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
June 25 2022 12:41 GMT
#2927
On June 25 2022 21:27 SSIII wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 25 2022 13:52 Ghostcom wrote:
On June 25 2022 13:33 SSIII wrote:
A stab on the back of your friend sounds like a big boy action?
Come on, we all know who is the target if Russia fell.
We don't want to pick a side, but we have to. Zelensky recently said he is satisfied with China's choice,which means, in my comprehension, -had not supportted Russia openly.


If your friend commits crimes against humanity, I think it is appropriate to stop being friends with them...

Why your country did not quit NATO when NATO killed at least tens of thousands civilians in Asia? Is it not against humanity because the people you killed are not 'civilized' humans?


NATO has never started a war, much less committed genocide or systematic killing of cilians. I don't know what sources you're relying on, but they've been feeding you lies.

If a NATO member shows aggression against another country, other NATO members are not bound to come to their aid. This is because NATO is not an offensive alliance, but a defensive pact.
NATO members are bound to come to the defense of a NATO member who's home soil (not property) is attacked by another country.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5806 Posts
June 25 2022 12:42 GMT
#2928
On June 25 2022 21:27 SSIII wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 25 2022 13:52 Ghostcom wrote:
On June 25 2022 13:33 SSIII wrote:
A stab on the back of your friend sounds like a big boy action?
Come on, we all know who is the target if Russia fell.
We don't want to pick a side, but we have to. Zelensky recently said he is satisfied with China's choice,which means, in my comprehension, -had not supportted Russia openly.


If your friend commits crimes against humanity, I think it is appropriate to stop being friends with them...

Why your country did not quit NATO when NATO killed at least tens of thousands civilians in Asia? Is it not against humanity because the people you killed are not 'civilized' humans?

Where? And deliberately?
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23903 Posts
June 25 2022 13:13 GMT
#2929
The obvious NATO country that rapidly wouldn't have any friends with Ghostcom's advice is the US. Beyond NATO, the next western country to be friendless would likely be Israel.

Israel being a country engaged in an ongoing criminal occupation and attempted ethnic cleansing that has western support.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28789 Posts
June 25 2022 13:19 GMT
#2930
While NATO is the wrong term to use, Denmark was one of the countries supporting the invasion of Iraq, which can in many ways be compared to the invasion of Ukraine. There are also ways in which it differs, and ways denmark differs from China, but some degree of whataboutism is kinda warranted. None of this justifies current support for Russia or inaction, but I highly understand opposition to a perceived western holier than thou attitude.
Moderator
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
June 25 2022 13:32 GMT
#2931
--- Nuked ---
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
June 25 2022 13:45 GMT
#2932
On June 25 2022 22:19 Liquid`Drone wrote:
While NATO is the wrong term to use, Denmark was one of the countries supporting the invasion of Iraq, which can in many ways be compared to the invasion of Ukraine. There are also ways in which it differs, and ways denmark differs from China, but some degree of whataboutism is kinda warranted. None of this justifies current support for Russia or inaction, but I highly understand opposition to a perceived western holier than thou attitude.


Whataboutism is never warranted, or even acceptable. All it does is derail a discussion.

If you want to argue the legality of an action according to international law, one can bring examples of successful cases of such application of laws as justification, but it makes no sense to say: "but they also broke the law, so it's fine".
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28789 Posts
June 25 2022 13:58 GMT
#2933
Which is what 'some degree of' and 'none of this ....' adresses. But many western countries supported an invasion we thought was abhorrent and immoral because we were dependent on maintaining a good relationship with the US. People from those countries should perhaps be a bit cautious with holier than thou style arguments levied towards countries dependent on maintaining a good relationship with Russia. Again, us having been wrong in the past does not justify others being wrong in the future, but we should have some degree of humility while acknowledging and recognizing that yes, the west is guilty of severe past human rights abuses and that we're also supporting countries currently engaging in such abuses.
Moderator
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5806 Posts
June 25 2022 14:02 GMT
#2934
On June 25 2022 22:19 Liquid`Drone wrote:
While NATO is the wrong term to use, Denmark was one of the countries supporting the invasion of Iraq, which can in many ways be compared to the invasion of Ukraine. There are also ways in which it differs, and ways denmark differs from China, but some degree of whataboutism is kinda warranted. None of this justifies current support for Russia or inaction, but I highly understand opposition to a perceived western holier than thou attitude.

Really? How can the two be compared?
r00ty
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany1070 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-06-25 14:14:18
June 25 2022 14:12 GMT
#2935
On June 25 2022 23:02 maybenexttime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 25 2022 22:19 Liquid`Drone wrote:
While NATO is the wrong term to use, Denmark was one of the countries supporting the invasion of Iraq, which can in many ways be compared to the invasion of Ukraine. There are also ways in which it differs, and ways denmark differs from China, but some degree of whataboutism is kinda warranted. None of this justifies current support for Russia or inaction, but I highly understand opposition to a perceived western holier than thou attitude.

Really? How can the two be compared?


The official reason for the invasion was made up bullshit and everybody involved in the decision knew it.
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
June 25 2022 14:16 GMT
#2936
Well done, Drone.

You've successfully derailed the thread. Rename it to the Iraq War thread now.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
June 25 2022 14:30 GMT
#2937
--- Nuked ---
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28789 Posts
June 25 2022 14:31 GMT
#2938
People have discussed China for pages now? You yourself discussed the Arab spring 3 pages ago. Many topics are tangentially related to this topic and can deserve some degree of attention given to them. I do agree that there's a limit to how much time should be spent on it, but a handful of posts tackling the Iraq invasion from a perspective of 'are western countries hypocritical' is imo entirely on point. A meta discussion centered around what is acceptable however sounds fairly pointless, so this will be my last contribution on just that.
Moderator
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-06-25 15:11:52
June 25 2022 14:38 GMT
#2939
--- Nuked ---
r00ty
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany1070 Posts
June 25 2022 14:43 GMT
#2940
On June 25 2022 23:30 JimmiC wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 25 2022 23:12 r00ty wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 25 2022 23:02 maybenexttime wrote:
On June 25 2022 22:19 Liquid`Drone wrote:
While NATO is the wrong term to use, Denmark was one of the countries supporting the invasion of Iraq, which can in many ways be compared to the invasion of Ukraine. There are also ways in which it differs, and ways denmark differs from China, but some degree of whataboutism is kinda warranted. None of this justifies current support for Russia or inaction, but I highly understand opposition to a perceived western holier than thou attitude.

Really? How can the two be compared?


The official reason for the invasion was made up bullshit and everybody involved in the decision knew it.

And it was to unseat a horrible dictator and still worked out horribly, even with trillions spent on rebuilt, the blitz working and used as an example of what not to do. So when Russia did the unprovoked attack of a democracy to expand their territory, countries around the world, rightfully so, said this is bad stop.
Not, welp other countries have done other bad things we should probably let this slide.


We should and you are right. Just answered a question, there were similarities.
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