World will end on 2012

On August 24 2007 13:19 Scorpion wrote:
I hope everyone suffers the same fate the people of Tokyo did on 1945 when they got firebombed.

On August 24 2007 13:19 Scorpion wrote:
I hope everyone suffers the same fate the people of Tokyo did on 1945 when they got firebombed.

On August 24 2007 13:16 SoleSteeler wrote:
please let the world end then... i cannot bear real life until that date

On August 24 2007 13:43 CaucasianAsian wrote:
people thought the world was going to die when the clock struck midnight for the beginning of the year 2000. We're all still here though.

On August 24 2007 13:43 CaucasianAsian wrote:
people thought the world was going to die when the clock struck midnight for the beginning of the year 2000. We're all still here though.

On August 24 2007 13:19 Scorpion wrote:
I hope everyone suffers the same fate the people of Tokyo did on 1945 when they got firebombed.

On August 24 2007 13:31 ~OpZ~ wrote:


And you wonder why we don't like you? haha

On August 24 2007 13:19 Scorpion wrote:
I hope everyone suffers the same fate the people of Tokyo did on 1945 when they got firebombed.

On August 24 2007 13:19 Scorpion wrote:
I hope everyone suffers the same fate the people of Tokyo did on 1945 when they got firebombed.

On August 24 2007 13:31 ~OpZ~ wrote:


And you wonder why we don't like you? haha

On August 24 2007 14:09 Scorpion wrote:


We?

*looks around*

Are you talking down on me boy?

I only said that because my mom's entire family died in that firebomb incident. The firebombing was worse than the nuke :/ (in terms of damage done RIGHT THERE, the nuke > firebomb any day with its radiation and stuff).

>_>

On August 24 2007 14:13 CaucasianAsian wrote:
They believe the world was august 13th 3114 BC Yeah, If they can't get that right, how do u think they can get the ending date right?

On August 24 2007 14:19 Coagulation wrote:
there culture also beleived that in order for the sun to come up they needed to cut the hearts out of human sacrafices to fuel it.

this is clearly not true.

On August 24 2007 14:25 CaucasianAsian wrote:
They say the sun will be centered of the galaxy? wtf is this bullshti?



That's 27million lightyears away. We have atleast 27 million times the speed of light, years left. I'll take my chances that it's not in 2012.

On August 24 2007 14:25 CaucasianAsian wrote:
They say the sun will be centered of the galaxy? wtf is this bullshti?



That's 27million lightyears away. We have atleast 27 million times the speed of light, years left. I'll take my chances that it's not in 2012.

On August 24 2007 14:30 IdrA wrote:

i think the belief is that at that date the black hole at the center of the milky way, the sun, and the earth will all line up.
and, according to the 'theory' proponents this will cause the magnetic field to shift and all other sorts of fun stuff.

On August 24 2007 14:31 Coagulation wrote:


how did we take a picture of our galaxy 27 million light years away?

On August 24 2007 14:26 draeger wrote:
So how many predictions from various groups of people have came and gone since then? People seme to quickly forget everybody who predicted the world to end before today but still make a big fuss about the next upcoming prediction.

The late Moses David (formerly David Berg) was the founder of the Christian religious group, The Children of God. He predicted that a comet would hit the earth, probably in the mid 1970's and destroy all life in the United States.

Lindsey boldly declared that "The Rapture" would occur before Dec. 31, 1981, based on Christian prophesy, astronomy and a dash of ecological fatalism. He pegged the date to Jesus' promised to return to Earth a generation after Israel's rebirth. He also made references to the "Jupiter Effect," a planetary alignment that occurs every 179 years, that would supposedly lead to earthquakes and nuclear plant meltdowns.

It was all going to end in 1982, when the planets lined up and created magnetic forces that would bring Armageddon to the earth.

In 1992, David Koresh of the Branch Davidian group in Waco Texas changed the name of their commune from Mt. Carmel to Ranch Apocalypse, because of his belief that the final all-encompassing battle of Armageddon mentioned in the Bible would start at the Branch Davidian compound. They had calculated that the end would occur in 1995. After a 51-day standoff, on 1993-APR-10, 76 members died as a result of a deliberately set fire.

A Korean group called Mission For The Coming Days had the Korea Church a buzz in the fall of 1992. They foresaw Oct 28, 1992 as the time for the Rapture. Numerology was the basis for the date. Several camera shots that left ghostly images on pictures was thought to be a supernatural confirmation of the date.

If the year 2000 is the end of the 6000 year cycle, then the rapture must take place in 1993, because you would need 7 years of the tribulation. This was the thinking of a number of prophecy writers.

End of world; Implied in Hal Lindsay's revision. 1st said 1948+40=1988; Later Israel did not have land until 1967 War; 1967+40=2007; Rapture seven years earlier. Also now says generation from 60-80 yrs. Puts it also at 2040, 2047

Charles Spiegel, a retired psychology professor, preaches from a small town near San Diego CA that the ancient land of Atlantis will emerge from the Caribbean circa 2001 CE. Shortly thereafter, 1000 extra-terrestrials from "Myton" in 33 spaceships will land there and bring new knowledge to humanity.

On August 24 2007 14:36 OhThatDang wrote:


conspiracy

On August 24 2007 16:21 StripedBlueCrow wrote:
I thought it ended in 2004..

On August 24 2007 16:11 CharlieMurphy wrote:
http://zeitgeistmovie.com/


I've always wondered how they took pictures of our galaxy from a distance when we are in the middle of it. My guess is either they find a spot that can reflect the shot back like a mirror (i doubt it ) or they just take all the pictures from all directions and combine them and make an accurate fabrication picture.

On August 24 2007 13:04 XDawn wrote:
Basically it's about how the Mayans have predicted the end of the world which is in 21st of December, 2012; astrologically. and such. which I don't know much about. hence I don't know if this would be true or not. hence I posted this. *smiley*.

And so on. Discuss?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgcuwjKVqNQ
Part 1

(There are 5 parts)

On August 24 2007 17:36 Plexa wrote:
oh and my friend who's mad into this shit, apparently talked to some spirit and Bush dies in 2012 lol?

On August 24 2007 13:37 skindzer wrote:
This as stupid as saying that according to the greeks world will end on the 31th of december -_-, fucking new age.

On August 24 2007 17:36 Plexa wrote:
There is many sources of 'evidence' supporting the claim that the world will end in 2012 -
mostly spiritual mumbo-jumbo + superstition
however, it's kind of weird just how many different religions and spiritual beliefs are converging to a large-scale world event in 2012

oh and my friend who's mad into this shit, apparently talked to some spirit and Bush dies in 2012 lol?

On August 24 2007 18:38 CharlieMurphy wrote:
The thing is though pyro and ForeverWar, The Mayans have always been renowned as expert astronomers and mathematicians (especially for their time). So this is one of the bigger more well known end world predictions.

I'm not saying I believe it but I think that date actually does play a big role in actual scientific happenings with the planet regardless.

On August 24 2007 18:43 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:

Are you serious man? Yes they were expert astronomers and mathematicians FOR THEIR TIME. They didnt even have telescopes. By today's standards their mathematics and astronomy are woefully pathetic. Besides you're missing the main point: Astrology is bullshit. What sort of "scientific happenings" could possibly considered as a "big role"? Also, because I'm a dick, weren't you the one who was deeply puzzled by how we "got a picture" of the milky way galaxy? So perhaps your reasoning abilities aren't the best?

All those events in astronomy you mention, although interesting, especially for those interested in sky gazing, hold absoulutely NO significance what so ever. It would be like me trying to attach great meaning to a solar eclipse. It's simply a natural progession of neuton's laws and natural celestial orbits.

On August 24 2007 18:55 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:
* Polar Shift is a theory that on December 21st 2012 Earth will be in line with the sun and a *Black Hole that is at the center of our galaxy the Milky Way, All these actions may cause earths poles change move position, or have an affect on Earth's magnetic field which might cause the loss of Earth's atmosphere, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions or other natural disasters.

There is absolutely no evidence or any reason under our current understanding of physics why those events should have any effect on the earths magnetic field. Gravity, the only force that is exerted on earth from those objects, would have no role in the alignment of magnetic fields. Although it is true that scientists have found evidence that the earth's poles DO flip-flop it is generally regarded to be a matter of geology rather than cosmology. However it would not cause earthquakes or volcanic eruptions, although there would be some loss of atmosphere.

On August 24 2007 18:56 pyrogenetix wrote:
so how exacly will the world end?

black hole?
sun go out?
oxygen run out?

On August 24 2007 16:11 CharlieMurphy wrote:
http://zeitgeistmovie.com/


I've always wondered how they took pictures of our galaxy(obviously, parts of it have been photographed..I mean even the moon would qualify as a part) from a distance when we are in the middle of it. My guess is either they find a spot that can reflect the shot back like a mirror (i doubt it ) or they just take all the pictures from all directions and combine them and make an accurate fabrication picture.

On August 24 2007 18:58 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:

Umm? Just so it's clear, they havent taken any pictures of our own galaxy. They simply know what it looks like through telescopic observation and then use computer rendering to create the images.

On August 24 2007 18:49 CharlieMurphy wrote:


no, you misunderstood. I don't believe in astrology (although most of my friends/ex-gf are cancers). And besides astrology has nothing to do with Mayan prediction. And what I meant is that Mayan astronomers were very good even for OUR time. They had solar eclipses and equinoxes all perfectly timed with a margin of like 30 seconds. Thats pretty damn good for 'no telescopes' don't you think?

And I was not the one puzzled about the milky way picture, re-read my post. I suggested that its either a concept photo or (unlikely) a reflected real photo.

PS- Why are you attacking me? mad from the all the BB losses?

On August 24 2007 19:04 CharlieMurphy wrote:


O RLY?

http://home.xtra.co.nz/hosts/Wingmakers/The Milky Way Galaxy.html

On August 24 2007 19:08 CharlieMurphy wrote:
Ok lets see you calculate sunrise and sundown for every day, including solar/lunar eclipses and any other shit. (without a calculator or the internet).

On August 24 2007 19:10 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:

No thanks? I'm not an astonomer. How would my inability to do this prove any of your points?

On August 24 2007 19:13 CharlieMurphy wrote:

you can stop trolling now.

On August 24 2007 19:08 CharlieMurphy wrote:
Ok lets see you calculate sunrise and sundown for every day, including solar/lunar eclipses and any other shit. (without a calculator or the internet).

"You can say a lot about the Maya, but you've got to hand it to them: they knew a hell of a lot about stars. For instance, they calculated the exact duration of a year to a thousandth of a decimal point"

"More disturbing, the Maya's were awfully good at astrology, too. Mysteriously, they predicted in what year their civilization would be overrun by foreigners coming from over the seas. "

"But actually, the Maya's never predicted anything concrete about 2012."

"The Maya's didn't really believed in endings: their conception of time was circular, with every end being the beginning of something new. So, 2012 shouldn't be an exception."

On August 24 2007 19:26 CharlieMurphy wrote:
ForeverWar, You could also claim that they destroyed themselves by raping their lands. But the initial contact year is most significant.

On August 24 2007 19:47 Sadist wrote:
actually it they dont predict the end of the world (according to people who refute this claim) Its the end of an "age" and thats the calender they found. They have numbers for dates higher than 2012, the world wont end. The mayans didnt know any more about the earth than we do today.

Also the magnetic shift of the poles has happened TONS of times in the past and life has gone on so the poles shifting actually wont mean much, we may get a little more solar radiation than usual but the atmosphere should protect us from most of it.

On August 24 2007 20:18 aseq wrote:
I will probably die in 2010 anyway...

And how many times would the earth have ended if it were for people predicting the future?

On August 24 2007 20:19 Sadist wrote:


literally the mayans have one of the last ones left if ive read correctly.

They may infact be the last old end of the world prediction (which has a specific date, not the nutty evangelists who are waiting for jesus)

This is in terms of calender dates, not specific end of the world sequences of religions because obviously we cannot really expect them to a) happen and b) know when they are supposed to happen and call bullshit when the date passes.

On August 24 2007 14:25 CaucasianAsian wrote:
They say the sun will be centered of the galaxy? wtf is this bullshti?



That's 27million lightyears away. We have atleast 27 million times the speed of light, years left. I'll take my chances that it's not in 2012.

On August 24 2007 13:33 haduken wrote:
What happens if the world doesn't end by then? O_o

On August 24 2007 21:28 Cpt Obvious wrote:


you have so many mistakes in there I don't know where to start.

The milky way is 100 000 Lightyears in diameter, not 27 million.
Our solar system is on one of the outer branches though, which makes for approx. 40k LY away from the center.
Still, if you wanted to calculate the time it takes in order for our sun to move into the centre of the galaxy, even at the speed of light, which is impossible anyway, it's not 40k TIMES speed of light, but divided by SOL. Which makes, you guessed it, exactly 40k years.

The 27 million LY either comes from "this perspective shows the milky way from a distance of 27 mil LY" or "this galaxy looks like the milky way and is 27 mil LY away".

Pffft, amateur.

On August 24 2007 14:35 Servolisk wrote:


Surely the Mayans didn't know about black holes? Or was this a dif theory?

On August 25 2007 01:20 CaucasianAsian wrote:


40k years would be if your traveling the speed of light. (Light year is the distance something moves while traveling 299792458 meters per second in one year) That would be 40thousand. But obviously our solar system is not traveling at the speed of light towards the center of the galaxy according to laws of relativity.

On August 25 2007 01:45 MyLostTemple wrote:
astrology is for retards

On August 25 2007 01:45 MyLostTemple wrote:
astrology is for retards

On August 25 2007 01:45 MyLostTemple wrote:
astrology is for retards

On August 25 2007 01:20 CaucasianAsian wrote:


40k years would be if your traveling the speed of light. (Light year is the distance something moves while traveling 299792458 meters per second in one year) That would be 40thousand. But obviously our solar system is not traveling at the speed of light towards the center of the galaxy according to laws of relativity.

On August 24 2007 14:31 Coagulation wrote:


how did we take a picture of our galaxy 27 million light years away?

On August 25 2007 04:39 KaasZerg wrote:
Astrology, UFO, Alien abductions, conspiriacy theories, thair all a load of crap.

On August 25 2007 02:33 ViRii wrote:
I'm sorry but anyone that believes that you have to sacrifice someone to make the Sun go up and come down is retarded and can't predict the future.

So they built a pyramid that has 365 steps and whatnot, probably was a coincidence. They probably go tired or ran out of resources.

On August 25 2007 01:20 CaucasianAsian wrote:


40k years would be if your traveling the speed of light. (Light year is the distance something moves while traveling 299792458 meters per second in one year) That would be 40thousand. But obviously our solar system is not traveling at the speed of light towards the center of the galaxy according to laws of relativity.

On August 24 2007 18:58 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:

Umm? Just so it's clear, they havent taken any pictures of our own galaxy. They simply know what it looks like through telescopic observation and then use computer rendering to create the images.

On August 25 2007 08:11 CrownRoyal wrote:
this isn't the same as some dude wanting attention and making bogus claims about the end of the world, if you don't know anything about mayans you should totally study them because their culture and the things they did are fascinating, I for one am not just going to blow that date off because I think something is likely to happen on that date or perhaps nothing at all, but the odds for that date being a standout day is much higher than a typical day.

On August 25 2007 07:36 satanslittlehelper wrote:
they have to keep up with national geographic channel now

On August 25 2007 08:11 CrownRoyal wrote:
this isn't the same as some dude wanting attention and making bogus claims about the end of the world, if you don't know anything about mayans you should totally study them because their culture and the things they did are fascinating, I for one am not just going to blow that date off because I think something is likely to happen on that date or perhaps nothing at all, but the odds for that date being a standout day is much higher than a typical day.

On August 25 2007 08:14 Sadist wrote:


whys that?

On August 25 2007 08:19 CrownRoyal wrote:


well obviously I don't know what the end of a calender means for the mayans, but all of their other predictions were very precise.

On August 25 2007 08:19 CrownRoyal wrote:


well obviously I don't know what the end of a calender means for the mayans, but all of their other predictions were very precise.

On August 24 2007 13:37 skindzer wrote:
This as stupid as saying that according to the greeks world will end on the 31th of december -_-, fucking new age.

On August 25 2007 11:29 Zeto wrote:
holy shit this kind of thread brings all the crazies out

edit: why would anyone take astrology seriously? you guys realize that's where horoscopes and similar shit comes from, right?

On August 25 2007 11:32 AngryLlama wrote:


I don't think OP or anyone backing this is talking about astrology....
i don't even know where that came from in the first place ;/

btw, this might scare some people...something i found on youtbue upon further research
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O96ZMPXuv1A&mode=related&search=

On August 25 2007 11:32 AngryLlama wrote:


I don't think OP or anyone backing this is talking about astrology....
i don't even know where that came from in the first place ;/

btw, this might scare some people...something i found on youtbue upon further research
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O96ZMPXuv1A&mode=related&search=

On August 25 2007 14:27 [angst]chraej wrote:
20+1+2 = 23!

coincidence? i think not

On November 05 2010 03:13 Aeres wrote:
I didn't want to make another thread for this, so I apologize for the necro, but I thought this information was fascinating.

Apparently, 2012 may not be the date that brings about the end of times. A recent research study says that a conversion error between the Gregorian calendar (our standard calendar) and the Mayan calendar may have occurred, due to a misallocation of the GMT constant. A constant based on astronomical events that was devised by several Mayan scholars in past years, the GMT constant's veracity has been disputed by one Gerardo Aldana, who claims that certain weaknesses in the establishment of the GMT make the argument fall apart "like a stack of cards".

According to Aldana, the correction he's made to the GMT constant would place the "end of the world" date 50 to 100 years after 2012.

Source: http://abcnews.go.com/m/screen?id=11926347

What now?!

On November 05 2010 03:13 Aeres wrote:
I didn't want to make another thread for this, so I apologize for the necro, but I thought this information was fascinating.

Apparently, 2012 may not be the date that brings about the end of times. A recent research study says that a conversion error between the Gregorian calendar (our standard calendar) and the Mayan calendar may have occurred, due to a misallocation of the GMT constant. A constant based on astronomical events that was devised by several Mayan scholars in past years, the GMT constant's veracity has been disputed by one Gerardo Aldana, who claims that certain weaknesses in the establishment of the GMT make the argument fall apart "like a stack of cards".

According to Aldana, the correction he's made to the GMT constant would place the "end of the world" date 50 to 100 years after 2012.

Source: http://abcnews.go.com/m/screen?id=11926347

What now?!

On November 05 2010 03:13 Aeres wrote:
I didn't want to make another thread for this, so I apologize for the necro, but I thought this information was fascinating.

Apparently, 2012 may not be the date that brings about the end of times. A recent research study says that a conversion error between the Gregorian calendar (our standard calendar) and the Mayan calendar may have occurred, due to a misallocation of the GMT constant. A constant based on astronomical events that was devised by several Mayan scholars in past years, the GMT constant's veracity has been disputed by one Gerardo Aldana, who claims that certain weaknesses in the establishment of the GMT make the argument fall apart "like a stack of cards".

According to Aldana, the correction he's made to the GMT constant would place the "end of the world" date 50 to 100 years after 2012.

Source: http://abcnews.go.com/m/screen?id=11926347

What now?!

On November 05 2010 03:18 Hier wrote:


But they already made a movie about it!

Really, I don't think anybody sane actually believed the world was going to end on that exact date. It was interesting poking fun at the Mayan calendar, now this is becoming plain silly.

On November 05 2010 03:32 Welmu wrote:


lol, two fails :D. It didn't happen 4000yrs ago obiviously and god did it in 6 days and rested 7th day ._.

On November 05 2010 03:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:

Since 45 percent of North American are "sane" enough to believe that God has created the earth in 7 days 4000 years ago, I wouldn't be that surprised if some people really believed that some precolombian people's superstition can tell us about the end of the world.

Obviously, we can also say that all of this people are not very sane anyway, but 40 percent, that's enough to consider US as basically a huge asylum, which would be exagerated. Maybe.

On November 05 2010 03:31 Trizz wrote:
2012 was never the beginning of the end of the world, it's something much more fascinating.

On November 05 2010 03:45 GreEny K wrote:


If you're gonna act like a smartass at least know your facts. Makes you look more credible.

On November 05 2010 03:55 Biff The Understudy wrote:

You know, the more I think about it, and the more I am absolutely sure that you got my point.

Now you are the one trying to be a smartass with this random flamming on a point you didn't even make yourself. By the way, I could do exactly the same comment to your post by saying that theses are, precisely no facts, but beliefs. Have a nice one.

On November 05 2010 03:58 GreEny K wrote:


So be it, even if they are "Beliefs" they are commonly held beliefs. And if I go into a thread or conversation and throw in some incorrect facts the same thing would happen.

On November 05 2010 04:07 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:


Well put.

Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson?

Scientists tend to be more credible than religious prophecies.

On November 05 2010 04:19 junemermaid wrote:
What always confused me was.... what time zone is god going to end the world in?

On November 05 2010 04:04 Liveon wrote:
I'm going to laugh my ass of on december 22nd 2012 =D
and then I'm going on with my normal live, for at least until 2037 (where there is a chance a meteorite called 'apophis' is going to hit us But that chance is quite small).

On November 05 2010 04:19 junemermaid wrote:
What always confused me was.... what time zone is god going to end the world in?

On November 05 2010 04:26 Tump wrote:

2036 actually

2028 will be the year when we can determine if our gravitational pull will make it hit in 2036

On November 05 2010 04:25 ddrddrddrddr wrote:
On December 32, 2012, I'm going to laugh upon all of you for your foolishness in believing this nonsense.

On November 05 2010 04:49 tofucake wrote:

Only 2 of those options are words, and only 1 of those 2 is possible.

On November 05 2010 04:52 jello_biafra wrote:

Actually I'd say none of these are possible as world enders, nuclear war might kill all of humanity but it would not end the world.

On November 05 2010 05:28 NeXiLe wrote:


I don't know mannnn, Not sure how true it is but I've heard there's enough nuclear weapons to blow up earth quite a few times over.

Also, if there's a zombie apocalypse, I really hope they're the slow retarded zombies. I honestly think I'd be amazing at zombie survival shit ^^

On November 05 2010 04:49 tofucake wrote:

Only 2 of those options are words, and only 1 of those 2 is possible.

On November 05 2010 05:36 Aeres wrote:
Damn, if I'd known bumping this would result in debate unrelated to the research I posted, I wouldn't have done it.

Guys, this topic was made in 2007. You'll want to skip to around the middle of page 8 to find the more interesting info.

On November 05 2010 05:42 CharlieMurphy wrote:

I don't quite understand the article anyways. The mayans calendar doesn't care if our calendar lines up with theirs. Their calendar is based on solar position of the sun and earth afaik. So Dec 21-26 is when the winter solstice is. That is why it's the end date.

On November 05 2010 05:34 ZeroCartin wrote:

Zombie infestation is a real threat these days indeed!

On November 05 2010 05:48 Fa1nT wrote:
Humanity has reached a technological point where it can never end unless our planet is 100% destroyed in the next few thousand years. The odds of that happening are astronomically low, and even if it were to happen, we would know of it coming maybe decades before it happens.

Even today, people can live many years on space stations. Give it another few hundred, and whats to stop say a permanent, self-sustainable space station orbiting say mars or venus?

On November 05 2010 05:39 Foreplay wrote:

but no one wants to be one of those zombies. Everyone wants to be a badass.

On August 24 2007 13:04 XDawn wrote:
...the Mayans...

On August 24 2007 19:08 CharlieMurphy wrote:
Ok lets see you calculate sunrise and sundown for every day, including solar/lunar eclipses and any other shit. (without a calculator or the internet).

"You can say a lot about the Maya, but you've got to hand it to them: they knew a hell of a lot about stars. For instance, they calculated the exact duration of a year to a thousandth of a decimal point"

"More disturbing, the Maya's were awfully good at astrology, too. Mysteriously, they predicted in what year their civilization would be overrun by foreigners coming from over the seas. "

"But actually, the Maya's never predicted anything concrete about 2012."

"The Maya's didn't really believed in endings: their conception of time was circular, with every end being the beginning of something new. So, 2012 shouldn't be an exception."

On November 05 2010 05:50 CharlieMurphy wrote:
There is nothing to convert? Mayans have some calendar that counts solar years. It ends at the year 2012.

On November 05 2010 06:09 Talin wrote:


Known to be a very credible and informed source.

Every time people want to support a religious or pseudo-religious concept, they refer to an ancient civilization as the source of some mystical knowledge somehow lost to us over the centuries.

These people, however advanced and brilliant they may have been at some point in history (obviously not enough to ensure their own survival, prosperity and advancement), were primitive and ignorant relative to the global civilization right now.