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On October 03 2024 12:04 Husyelt wrote:
"The health care workers, some of whom signed a letter in July that had similar demands, called on the Biden administration to change its current Middle East policy and hold Israel accountable before both U.S. and international law".
I'm pretty sure international law is done with Gaza.
The current situation of 100 dead a week may last for many years.
There is no squaring that with inalienable human rights, UN charter or the rules based order.
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And here I was thinking this was going to be about using white phosphorous in residential areas.
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Guesses on Israel's respond to Iran's missile barrage?
Poll: Israel's response to Iran's barageStrike on Iranian Oil refining (5) 50% Strike on military bases (2) 20% Strike on Iranian nuclear facilities (2) 20% Attack on everything, full war. (1) 10% Strike on Iranian air defense (0) 0% 10 total votes Your vote: Israel's response to Iran's barage (Vote): Strike on Iranian air defense
(Vote): Strike on military bases
(Vote): Strike on Iranian Oil refining
(Vote): Strike on Iranian nuclear facilities
(Vote): Attack on everything, full war.
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On October 03 2024 23:53 Billyboy wrote:Guesses on Israel's respond to Iran's missile barrage? Poll: Israel's response to Iran's barageStrike on Iranian Oil refining (5) 50% Strike on military bases (2) 20% Strike on Iranian nuclear facilities (2) 20% Attack on everything, full war. (1) 10% Strike on Iranian air defense (0) 0% 10 total votes Your vote: Israel's response to Iran's barage (Vote): Strike on Iranian air defense
(Vote): Strike on military bases
(Vote): Strike on Iranian Oil refining
(Vote): Strike on Iranian nuclear facilities
(Vote): Attack on everything, full war.
Whatever it is, I'm sure it'll kill more civies than Iran did.
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On October 04 2024 00:09 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2024 23:53 Billyboy wrote:Guesses on Israel's respond to Iran's missile barrage? Poll: Israel's response to Iran's barageStrike on Iranian Oil refining (5) 50% Strike on military bases (2) 20% Strike on Iranian nuclear facilities (2) 20% Attack on everything, full war. (1) 10% Strike on Iranian air defense (0) 0% 10 total votes Your vote: Israel's response to Iran's barage (Vote): Strike on Iranian air defense
(Vote): Strike on military bases
(Vote): Strike on Iranian Oil refining
(Vote): Strike on Iranian nuclear facilities
(Vote): Attack on everything, full war.
Whatever it is, I'm sure it'll kill more civies than Iran did.
Their last one didn't, but then again Iran's only killed one I believe so it is not a bold statement, but almost certainly true!
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Sweden5599 Posts
They apparently need support from the us (direct us involvement to strike the underground bunkers with the nuclear facilities). On the other hand, I guess Iran’s response is a kind of carte blanche to dismantle the proxies in Yemen and Lebanon since Iran signalled that an attack against Iran would prompt a new response.
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oh yeah sure hit oil, fuck up the global economy some more...
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On October 04 2024 05:05 Gorsameth wrote:
oh yeah sure hit oil, fuck up the global economy some more...
I'm starting to become convinced Biden doesn't want Kamala to win the election.
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What’s really striking with Netanyahu and his premiership has been the complete lack of vision and strategy, at every level, since he took office.
There seems to be no end game to the war in Gaza, no end game to the war in Lebanon and no end game to the conflict with Iran. Most generally, there is no end game to the palestinian question. It just goes along the line of using a really big stick whenever there is a problem and having no other plan.
I had an israeli girlfriend at one point. She told me that when the wall was built, the Palestinians stopped being even talked about in political campaigns, that it stopped being an electoral item because buses were not blowing up anymore.
It’s such horrible leadership. What is striking is not just how morally repugnant israel’s actions are, but how dumb a course of action it represents. Every time israel eliminates a perceived ennemy by sending Tsahal to bomb a building or a hospital in response to an attack, they create three more that will strike them later.
And also, if there were a will to compromise and find a solution for a durable peace, then the use of force could have some kind of legitimacy. In a context where there is no attempt to even start negotiating on a basis that is not completely bonker, and where the oppression of Palestinians has been increasing years after year, there is simply no moral basis for those wars. Israel deserves the south africa 1990 treatment at the very least.
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Sweden5599 Posts
If they get the South Africa treatment you'll soon see a mass murder of Jews on the scale of the holocaust.
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There is no end game because Netanyahu doesn't want the game to end. His political survival depends on a continuing the war, otherwise he`s back to peacetime politics flipping a coin each election season as to whether he'll be finally indited on corruption charges.
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Here is what is most wild to me: After a few weeks of it being extremely obvious Israel had infiltrated Hezbollah to the fullest extent possible, Israel was able to preserve whatever methods or assets were used.
Other people here may know more about this than I do. But my ignorant impression is that this is basically the last major power structure remaining. It’s like a country losing their whole parliament and incoming PM at the same time
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Genuine Q, why cant Israel do like special military ops in the West Bank rather than just bombing or striking the shit out of civilians? Their special forces are incredible. Do they really just not want to lose any of their elite forces? I just don't know the tactical layout of the West Bank to make any real assessment, but I imagined its a much easier place to parse through, and less explosive rigged than Gaza or Lebanon's bordering towns.
Side note: I love how on this conflict/issue one gets accused of being a Zionist! for stating that this is more complicated than US/Isreal imperialism bad, and then when you point out genuine criticisms of IDF/Israel tactics and policy, (while admitting Hamas is a very bad org), "why are you taking Hamas propaganda at face value and hate Israel!"
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On October 04 2024 05:16 Biff The Understudy wrote:
What’s really striking with Netanyahu and his premiership has been the complete lack of vision and strategy, at every level, since he took office.
There seems to be no end game to the war in Gaza, no end game to the war in Lebanon and no end game to the conflict with Iran. Most generally, there is no end game to the palestinian question. It just goes along the line of using a really big stick whenever there is a problem and having no other plan.
I had an israeli girlfriend at one point. She told me that when the wall was built, the Palestinians stopped being even talked about in political campaigns, that it stopped being an electoral item because buses were not blowing up anymore.
It’s such horrible leadership. What is striking is not just how morally repugnant israel’s actions are, but how dumb a course of action it represents. Every time israel eliminates a perceived ennemy by sending Tsahal to bomb a building or a hospital in response to an attack, they create three more that will strike them later.
And also, if there were a will to compromise and find a solution for a durable peace, then the use of force could have some kind of legitimacy. In a context where there is no attempt to even start negotiating on a basis that is not completely bonker, and where the oppression of Palestinians has been increasing years after year, there is simply no moral basis for those wars. Israel deserves the south africa 1990 treatment at the very least.
But there is definitely vision as to the future, just not one that can be publicly aired.
It will turn Gaza into a giant surrounded refugee camp that will be bombed at will, colonize the west bank and involve a lot of grass-mowing in Lebanon, Syria and Yemen. The only snag being that Israel also needs US help wrecking Iran, which is why it has every reason to escalate to the point when US has to get involved.
It would result in peace for a time, on Israeli terms of course.
As to any 'endgame' - that's the same magical thinking as 'two state solution' or 'end of history'.
There will never be durable peace in middle-east unless Iranian or Israeli power is broken but for some reason the victor won't want to land the killing blow.
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If anyone would have a feasible version of an endgame to this clusterfuck, more countries would take strong stances against/for Israel or however you want to frame it. The issue is... There isn't one and that hasn't changed in ages.
The most realistic solution atm seems to be that, sooner or later, Israel will have to go back to "accept being rocketed/attacked" by Hamas/Hesbollah/Iran-Proxis until the end of time while losing more and more humanity towards palestine and lebanon.
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On October 04 2024 06:30 Elroi wrote:
If they get the South Africa treatment you'll soon see a mass murder of Jews on the scale of the holocaust.
Yes, just like there were a holocaust of white people when South Africa was forced to change.
The biggest threats to jews all around the world is Israel politics. The oppression of palestinians is what fuels antisemitism everywhere.
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On October 04 2024 06:33 Sbrubbles wrote:
There is no end game because Netanyahu doesn't want the game to end. His political survival depends on a continuing the war, otherwise he`s back to peacetime politics flipping a coin each election season as to whether he'll be finally indited on corruption charges.
I think that really is the main point. That, a complete lack of imagination from israel’s political class and two decades of criminal apathy and indifference from israeli society, that had somewhat persuaded themselves that those palestinians wouldn’t be any problem anymore after that wall was built, no matter the level of oppression they woukd endure.
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On October 05 2024 01:03 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2024 06:30 Elroi wrote:
If they get the South Africa treatment you'll soon see a mass murder of Jews on the scale of the holocaust. Yes, just like there were a holocaust of white people when South Africa was forced to change. The biggest threats to jews all around the world is Israel politics. The oppression of palestinians is what fuels antisemitism everywhere.
Sadly no, there is all sorts of things that fuel antisemitism, mostly ignorance and hate.
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EPT
