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On March 09 2024 11:50 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2024 11:23 FriedrichNietzsche wrote:
You answered so quickly I was in the process of editing my post. Sorry.
JimmiC drags you down to his level, then beats you with experience. He's a professional troll who poisons every discussion until you lose your cool and say something you didn't think through.This is the reason why I stopped responding to him altogether and I read almost none of his comments unless I want to respond to someone else and fully understand the context. For me he's effectively blocked in the absence of a block button. I won't tell you what to do, but I can say following the discussion is much better this way for me.
I've had my share of disagreements with Jimmi but this is a *rough* take. For Jimmi to be a troll he'd have to not actually believe the things he says and constantly engage in bad faith. I do not think that is at all an accurate read of Jimmi.
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There’s little cause to believe that Jimmi is a troll. As far as I can tell his postings appear to be sincere and his best effort
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I usually just lurk (I'm sure I'm not the only one), but I'm going to echo what the others said and say Jimmi ain't a troll. I might not agree with him on a number of issues, and he may be blunt, sure, but I think his directness proves his honesty (kinda the opposite of those politicians I see on TV really, always playing those bullshit word games).
If you want to see a guy who's comfortable on his horse or in the mud, that'd be Kwark. Not only will he vaunt how his horse is taller than yours, I've seen actual trolls try to drag him down into the mud with them, in which case he'll be happy to jump down from his high horse himself and join them in the mire, and still end up kicking their asses. Idk, that's got to be a talent, and no doubt that's probably what he's doing in the US pol thread right now lol
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What I see there in contemporary discourse is: Iran, their proxies and Palestinians. Al-quaeda as well. Not exactly an eye-opening half the world wants Israel, or preferably all Jews, eradicated. Where is China or India's fervent calls to remove all Jews from the river to the sea? Or Brazil or Nigeria? Germany maybe? They at least have a history of it! Nope. None of those. And in modern discourse not even the Arab League is calling for the eradication of Israel anymore. Worth noting that the Arab League wasn't calling for the destruction of Israel in the first place because they hated all Jews, but for geopolitical reasons... although I'll accept that anti-Semitic sentiment is rampant and an easy target for "othering" when the government needs a scapegoat for something. I won't try to talk that right: it's obviously very wrong. But it isn't even close to a billion people. It isn't even close to the governments of a billion people. There is no serious international push to eradicate Israel. Although Israel flattening Gaza so completely is more likely to create/revive that push than anything else they have done in recent history. And starving the remaining Gazans is further oil on the fire.
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On March 09 2024 11:50 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2024 11:23 FriedrichNietzsche wrote:
You answered so quickly I was in the process of editing my post. Sorry.
JimmiC drags you down to his level, then beats you with experience. He's a professional troll who poisons every discussion until you lose your cool and say something you didn't think through. This is the reason why I stopped responding to him altogether and I read almost none of his comments unless I want to respond to someone else and fully understand the context. For me he's effectively blocked in the absence of a block button. I won't tell you what to do, but I can say following the discussion is much better this way for me.
I obviously sympathize with the strategy but I must say I tried it for months a few years ago and it didn't stop the guy from answering everyone of my posts, he just gets a kick out of doing that. And what happens after a while is that people are not necessarily aware that you're not engaging with him, and it looks like you're not answering because you don't have a good response to what he said.
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On March 09 2024 19:35 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2024 11:50 Magic Powers wrote:On March 09 2024 11:23 FriedrichNietzsche wrote:
You answered so quickly I was in the process of editing my post. Sorry.
JimmiC drags you down to his level, then beats you with experience. He's a professional troll who poisons every discussion until you lose your cool and say something you didn't think through. This is the reason why I stopped responding to him altogether and I read almost none of his comments unless I want to respond to someone else and fully understand the context. For me he's effectively blocked in the absence of a block button. I won't tell you what to do, but I can say following the discussion is much better this way for me. I obviously sympathize with the strategy but I must say I tried it for months a few years ago and it didn't stop the guy from answering everyone of my posts, he just gets a kick out of doing that. And what happens after a while is that people are not necessarily aware that you're not engaging with him, and it looks like you're not answering because you don't have a good response to what he said.
That's certainly fair, but I think if you want to take the high road, you have to make sacrifices. I'm far more ok with people in this thread thinking JimmiC gets in a win every so often than having to deal with him at all. It's actually that bad.
Is he a troll, yes or no? I think he is, because in my understanding only few trolls are actually self-aware. The idea that a troll must know that they're trolling doesn't make sense to me. If that's the definition then we can't call anyone a troll, because overwhelmingly people believe they're in the right - including most people who consistently behave like trolls.
I call JimmiC a troll not because he knows what he's doing, but because he constantly does what every troll does.
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I think labeling JimmiC as a troll is at least questionable. Probably downright wrong. The amount he posts?
Also he isn't posting dumb/stupid/offensive stuff all the time or exclusively. I would refrain from this entire post/angle. It is beneath you.
However what is true is that JimmiC is extremely selective to what he replies to. He replied butthurt to me questioning his (basically insane) numbers of antisemites & his really just idiotic statement of "billions wanting all jews killed"-stuff.
He posted two articles but he did not reply to WombaTs questions and probably never will. Discussing is so easy when most of the time you reply to stuff you feel comfortable answering and simply ignore the stuff you have bad or no answers to. Or even worse you can only come up with answers that contradict your previous views. Oh gee, better not engage with this then, right!?
That is a criticism I think is very valid. The "he is a troll" - critique is off-base.
User was banned for this post.
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I'm completely fine calling him something else other than a troll, but you'll have to come up with a more fitting term. I consider him a troll until someone can describe his behavior in a few short words that doesn't equate to trolling.
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Alright, I'll make an exception to my rule. This is addressed directly to you, JimmiC.
Stop painting yourself as a victim.
The very moment that I called you a troll, several people immediately came to your defense. Which people? Those who are more often in support of my views of Israel and not your views. Those who are not generally against my views but frequently against yours.
You're not a victim, no one is ganging up on you. The backlash you've been receiving is your own doing.
Feel free to respond, I will respond back as long as you keep it civil.
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Northern Ireland25407 Posts
On March 09 2024 09:38 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2024 08:50 WombaT wrote:On March 08 2024 13:28 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 11:57 WombaT wrote:On March 08 2024 10:55 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 09:59 WombaT wrote:On March 08 2024 08:06 Nebuchad wrote:On March 08 2024 08:02 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 07:28 Nebuchad wrote:On March 08 2024 07:15 JimmiC wrote:
[quote]
Israel is a country and Jewish people are a people so of course they are different. But Israel is very important an inexplicitly linked to the Jewish people because what it represents. A safe place from all the many billions of people who want them all killed. Many who have tried. Okay so what are you disagreeing with? If Jewish people and Israel refer to different realities, then it logically follows that comparing the behavior of Israel to the behavior of nazis can't be problematic based on the history of the nazis with Jewish people, as Jewish people aren't synonymous with Israel. The Jews are most certainly synonymous with Israel. The example in the definition is Boston.and marathon, now those two go together but I’m pretty sure the first thing that comes to mind when you say Israel is the Jews and vice versa. Thank you , I couldn’t have said it better my self. In current event news the blood thirsty Israelis are dumbly setting up a third ground entrance to Gaza to allow more aid to pass, completely going against their secret but obvious goal of killing all the Palestinians. The complicit evil Americans are setting up a port. What monsters. /s A reminder that one page ago I said that you were equating Israel and Jewish people and you said that I was an evil bad person misrepresenting you, and now you say that "The Jews are most certainly synonymous with Israel". For the rest, I'll leave it there. As already said, this, to me, is an antisemitic notion, and the closest anyone in this thread has been to being openly antisemitic. I mean Cerebrate who I think posts very sensibly and cogently, but would probably personally concede a certain level of bias isn’t going around pulling the anti-semitism charge on posters in this particular thread, which I feel is somewhat telling. Jimmy just wants to argue that Israel is a liberal democracy and thus charges one can level against it are somehow deflected by that. He equivocates constantly to justify Israeli actions in a manner he absolutely does not to other scenarios. Oh it’s not ethnic cleansing it’s like, something bad but it isn’t that. Oh it’s not colonalism it’s merely ‘wanting land for people to live’. Then getting offended by someone drawing a parallel with ‘lebensraum’ which literally translated means ‘living space’. Then he wants to say he’s the sole voice of unbiased reason while he’ll absolutely slam China for doing (on a much less egregious scale) the exact same thing Israel does because he doesn’t like their political system. The guy literally said settlements might not be that bad because at some future juncture Israel might give them back, it’s preposterous argumentation. Words matter, Annexing land is not good. But it is also not colonialism, hence the two different words. In war lots of morally repugnant things are not war crimes. that you think China is doing the same, and on less of scale shows your complete lack of understanding. And probably a lot of bias to the "right" Israel and the "left" China. If you critically thought about each situation with out the political labels you would likely have different opinions. Sadly you like most get your info from the horribly unreliable and extremely biased (on purpose) social media and don't both to look further. By critical thought you mean rank inconsistency and the fallacy of moderation right? No I mean critical thought. The Uighurs are actually subjugated and being systematically ethnically cleansed. Here are some key differences, there is no Gaza or WB for them, they have been completely taken over. This means no government or pesky military wing. They are not allowed to teach their own children, the Chinese handle that. They are not allowed to practice their religion. Can they freely reproduce? Step out of line end up at a “reeducation center”, coming back not guaranteed. How come no journalists are going or covering it, there are none allowed. There is a clear difference. One is subjugation and one is a severely outmatched army picked a fight with a way bigger army and is using their own people as shields to protect themselves. You guys moralizing on me when you are so bloody inconsistent and only are REALLY REALLY mad, so mad you can’t be respectful or logical, when twitter tells you to and about who. None of you cared, or seem to actually care about that one though. Only time it gets brought up is as a false comparison because you don’t under stand what the words mean or apparently what is going on. They’re able to reproduce and haven’t been systematically wiped out, so how’s it ethnic cleansing? You’ve literally argued that Israel aren’t involved in ethnic cleansing because they haven’t just wiped the Palestinian people off the map entirely, so I’m curious how the Uighur situation is any different in terms of your willingess to use the term for one and not the other. So how are the Uighurs being ethnically cleansed by the same metrics you’ve used to say the Palestinians aren’t? What’s the underlining logic you’re employing here that makes you, rather than me the one employing cold hearted logic exactly? Don’t have a Twitter account man, and I’d have you refer to it as ‘X’ while we’re at it. See, luckily for me to what knowledge I have gleaned the Uighur situation is a very obvious instance of ethnic cleanisng of a cultural/ethnic tradition and not one I’ve ever actually claimed isn’t, nor one that I’d support for other reasons. And one you’ll never find a post for me defending. You’re the one trying to thread a needle between x is ethnic cleansing, y isn’t despite them being incredibly similar and having to justify the gap there, which thus far you haven’t been able to via any consistent framework. Don’t fucking come complaining when people point it out That’s not at all what I said and you know it, I don’t know if your trying way to hard to fit in with the “cool” kids or just have zero clue what your saying. Spectacularly disappointed with you as a person.
Are you going to answer my question or not? It’s probably about the fifth time I’ve posed it.
It’s hardly an unreasonable, bad faith question to ask why you have zero compunction in classifying China’s treatment of the Uighur’s as ethnic cleansing, but not Israel’s of the Palestinians.
You can’t simultaneously demand answers to questions such as ‘why does the left care more about Israel more than x?’ which I amongst others have earnestly attempted to answer, able to easily be scrolled back to while avoiding answering a very similar question as it pertains to your stance on Israel and China’s respective policies and your different categorisation of said policies.
I don’t see why such a request would induce disappointment in me as a person whatsoever
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On March 09 2024 07:23 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2024 07:19 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
What...? This has all signs of becoming an unmitigated disaster. Again, what happens if the port comes under attack?
What happens when someone attacks the port? There is a US carrier group off the coast, you do the math.
Again. Not US, or even European/Egyptian troops will not be protecting said area. The IDF will be. So that itself will make it a target. We know the IDF is exceptionally trigger happy already. That in itself makes it a high risk.
A key question will be what Israel is prepared to do to support the aid delivery effort.
The U.S. airdrops have been an unusual workaround by the Biden administration, which for months has appealed to Israel to increase the delivery of aid to Gaza and provide access and protection for trucks carrying the goods.
According to Biden, the Israeli government will maintain security at the pier and protect it from any attacks by Hamas. And there may also be a need for crowd control, in case residents try to storm the pier to get the desperately needed food.
While officials said they don’t likely need security on the sea route to Israel there will be a requirement for allies and private ships to deliver the aid along the maritime corridor.
It is also unclear who will be unloading the aid at the dock and moving it to shore.
Source
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On March 09 2024 23:36 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2024 23:28 Magic Powers wrote:
Alright, I'll make an exception to my rule. This is addressed directly to you, JimmiC.
Stop painting yourself as a victim.
The very moment that I called you a troll, several people immediately came to your defense. Which people? Those who are more often in support of my views of Israel and not your views. Those who are not generally against my views but frequently against yours.
You're not a victim, no one is ganging up on you. The backlash you've been receiving is your own doing.
Feel free to respond, I will respond back as long as you keep it civil. LOL you post to me more now than before you made up your "rule". You are about as honest about not reading and responding to me as you are about this topic. Here is the thread for you guys to continue you discussion without mucking up the thread for those of us that want to discuss the topic and not just say our own uninformed opinion and here it echoed back. https://tl.net/forum/general/622278-meta-discussion-on-jimmic
I haven't responded to you in weeks.
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Northern Ireland25407 Posts
On March 09 2024 23:38 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2024 23:30 WombaT wrote:On March 09 2024 09:38 JimmiC wrote:On March 09 2024 08:50 WombaT wrote:On March 08 2024 13:28 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 11:57 WombaT wrote:On March 08 2024 10:55 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 09:59 WombaT wrote:On March 08 2024 08:06 Nebuchad wrote:On March 08 2024 08:02 JimmiC wrote:
[quote]
The Jews are most certainly synonymous with Israel. The example in the definition is Boston.and marathon, now those two go together but I’m pretty sure the first thing that comes to mind when you say Israel is the Jews and vice versa. Thank you , I couldn’t have said it better my self.
In current event news the blood thirsty Israelis are dumbly setting up a third ground entrance to Gaza to allow more aid to pass, completely going against their secret but obvious goal of killing all the Palestinians. The complicit evil Americans are setting up a port. What monsters. /s
A reminder that one page ago I said that you were equating Israel and Jewish people and you said that I was an evil bad person misrepresenting you, and now you say that "The Jews are most certainly synonymous with Israel". For the rest, I'll leave it there. As already said, this, to me, is an antisemitic notion, and the closest anyone in this thread has been to being openly antisemitic. I mean Cerebrate who I think posts very sensibly and cogently, but would probably personally concede a certain level of bias isn’t going around pulling the anti-semitism charge on posters in this particular thread, which I feel is somewhat telling. Jimmy just wants to argue that Israel is a liberal democracy and thus charges one can level against it are somehow deflected by that. He equivocates constantly to justify Israeli actions in a manner he absolutely does not to other scenarios. Oh it’s not ethnic cleansing it’s like, something bad but it isn’t that. Oh it’s not colonalism it’s merely ‘wanting land for people to live’. Then getting offended by someone drawing a parallel with ‘lebensraum’ which literally translated means ‘living space’. Then he wants to say he’s the sole voice of unbiased reason while he’ll absolutely slam China for doing (on a much less egregious scale) the exact same thing Israel does because he doesn’t like their political system. The guy literally said settlements might not be that bad because at some future juncture Israel might give them back, it’s preposterous argumentation. Words matter, Annexing land is not good. But it is also not colonialism, hence the two different words. In war lots of morally repugnant things are not war crimes. that you think China is doing the same, and on less of scale shows your complete lack of understanding. And probably a lot of bias to the "right" Israel and the "left" China. If you critically thought about each situation with out the political labels you would likely have different opinions. Sadly you like most get your info from the horribly unreliable and extremely biased (on purpose) social media and don't both to look further. By critical thought you mean rank inconsistency and the fallacy of moderation right? No I mean critical thought. The Uighurs are actually subjugated and being systematically ethnically cleansed. Here are some key differences, there is no Gaza or WB for them, they have been completely taken over. This means no government or pesky military wing. They are not allowed to teach their own children, the Chinese handle that. They are not allowed to practice their religion. Can they freely reproduce? Step out of line end up at a “reeducation center”, coming back not guaranteed. How come no journalists are going or covering it, there are none allowed. There is a clear difference. One is subjugation and one is a severely outmatched army picked a fight with a way bigger army and is using their own people as shields to protect themselves. You guys moralizing on me when you are so bloody inconsistent and only are REALLY REALLY mad, so mad you can’t be respectful or logical, when twitter tells you to and about who. None of you cared, or seem to actually care about that one though. Only time it gets brought up is as a false comparison because you don’t under stand what the words mean or apparently what is going on. They’re able to reproduce and haven’t been systematically wiped out, so how’s it ethnic cleansing? You’ve literally argued that Israel aren’t involved in ethnic cleansing because they haven’t just wiped the Palestinian people off the map entirely, so I’m curious how the Uighur situation is any different in terms of your willingess to use the term for one and not the other. So how are the Uighurs being ethnically cleansed by the same metrics you’ve used to say the Palestinians aren’t? What’s the underlining logic you’re employing here that makes you, rather than me the one employing cold hearted logic exactly? Don’t have a Twitter account man, and I’d have you refer to it as ‘X’ while we’re at it. See, luckily for me to what knowledge I have gleaned the Uighur situation is a very obvious instance of ethnic cleanisng of a cultural/ethnic tradition and not one I’ve ever actually claimed isn’t, nor one that I’d support for other reasons. And one you’ll never find a post for me defending. You’re the one trying to thread a needle between x is ethnic cleansing, y isn’t despite them being incredibly similar and having to justify the gap there, which thus far you haven’t been able to via any consistent framework. Don’t fucking come complaining when people point it out That’s not at all what I said and you know it, I don’t know if your trying way to hard to fit in with the “cool” kids or just have zero clue what your saying. Spectacularly disappointed with you as a person. Are you going to answer my question or not? It’s probably about the fifth time I’ve posed it. It’s hardly an unreasonable, bad faith question to ask why you have zero compunction in classifying China’s treatment of the Uighur’s as ethnic cleansing, but not Israel’s of the Palestinians. You can’t simultaneously demand answers to questions such as ‘why does the left care more about Israel more than x?’ which I amongst others have earnestly attempted to answer, able to easily be scrolled back to while avoiding answering a very similar question as it pertains to your stance on Israel and China’s respective policies and your different categorisation of said policies. I don’t see why such a request would induce disappointment in me as a person whatsoever I answered it multiple times, in quite a bit of detail each time. The quick answer is it is very different. The second is I have talked lots about what I think Israel is doing wrong. Just that because I don't only shit on Israel you and your fellow bully's (asshats whatever term you like) you ignore those parts as if I don't believe them. Issues are not black and white, especially this one. That you and other small minded people think you have to pick a side is not who I am or who I will ever be. Sorry, not sorry. Also, stop being so fucking entitled I don't have to respond to everyone all the time, frankly it is very time consuming and secondly when I do you all fucking bitch and complain about how much I'm posting.
Evidently if you had done so, I wouldn’t be asking again would I?
Nobody’s asking you to pick a side, I think it’s an entirely fair question to, in the context of a thread discussing this particular topic to ask why you consider one to be ethnic cleansing and the other not to be, and to show your working.
You, correctly, have zero issue when say, a Trump supporter shows a level of contradiction across issues and pointing that out if it arises.
But apparently it’s somehow unfair to apply the same lens to you?
You ask, again correctly the exact same kind of questions of folks of a left-leaning/anti-Israel position in that Hamas is essentially antithetical to those values, fair enough as I’m concerned.
User was temp banned for this post.
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So no ceasefire. Unless something drastic happens.
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EPT
