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Northern Ireland27463 Posts
On November 15 2022 04:34 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2022 01:19 WombaT wrote:
Fucking hell is it just me who’s currently headbutting his keyboard?
Why must every utterance become some Iwo Jima-esque hill that must be defended to the death?
Why are ‘oh I might have jumped the gun there’ or ‘Hm on reflection yeah I was wrong there’ phrases that are seemingly impossible to type out as it pertains to this thread? This is what drone wants. He told bj he was doing great and now has encouraged others to act just like him. Look at what evil posted he fully knows he never has to take responsibility for what he says and never has to treat anyone else in the thread with respect because drone will give him and his circle coverage. The concept of disinformation being censored in a pubic health emergency is now something worth questioning other posters sobriety over because drone says there's no consequences for it.
I’m lucky sobriety in posting isn’t brought up more often…
I’ve no skin in this particular game.
Far as I see it Razyda brought his claim initially, was laughed out of dodge, then showed some evidence via webarchive, that did back up his claim, then there was like 2 pages of needless quibbling and arguments.
With a kind of, unrealistic burden of proof on certain things.
Hey it may have ended up being fractious anyway, but we could have nearly transitioned straight into the rights/wrongs of censorship of this kind of material.
For, whatever reason, this video got pulled. And, I’m going to bet it’s not a copyright infringement. Which is one of the rare examples of YouTube actually listing a reason for a video being taken down. If there is a notice on the original video that says ‘This video is no longer available because of a copyright claim by x’, then I’ll 100% accept I’m wrong.
It’s very easily checked. Im just lazy and extremely busy in work.
Everything else, I mean no. Verified big content creators can’t even get answers to these kind of questions, much less someone on the outside like us. So I mean people are asking for 100% proof that is not obtainable.
Personally, not sure the mechanism but I’m quite confident it’s got flagged and is gone due to being flagged as Covid misinformation.
Personally, I’m fine with that, in theory. I haven’t watched said video to comment on it specifically, but in general.
I’m pretty hawkish on censoring such things, but I do have misgivings over how it is done, say to the detriment of non-consensus but legitimate study and observation. Or just in a more general ‘who watches the watchmen’ sense. Between here and US Pol, youse may have a different perception but I would comfortably put myself up there amongst the most pro-censorship regular posters.
But why are we spending so much time splitting hairs? The video was obviously pulled. It was obviously censored in some form, have a wee chat as to the wisdom or lack thereof.
‘It’s not censorship if you can access it somehow’ is like, absolutely not a yardstick we’d be using in any other conceivable context. Nobody doubts that the war on drug is an ongoing policy because some bloke can still get heroin.
Apologies to rant it’s just done my head in, this has been my number 1 source/aggregator for Covid information throughout the whole pandemic, and I have found the time people in related fields have put in absolutely invaluable. The main reason I come here is a combination of people with knowledge I don’t have, that I can interact with but shorn of most of the needless hostility of elsewhere.
But of late it really feels even this thread is afflicted with the wider malaise that drove me out of other forums.
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On November 15 2022 05:21 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2022 04:34 Sermokala wrote:On November 15 2022 01:19 WombaT wrote:
Fucking hell is it just me who’s currently headbutting his keyboard?
Why must every utterance become some Iwo Jima-esque hill that must be defended to the death?
Why are ‘oh I might have jumped the gun there’ or ‘Hm on reflection yeah I was wrong there’ phrases that are seemingly impossible to type out as it pertains to this thread? This is what drone wants. He told bj he was doing great and now has encouraged others to act just like him. Look at what evil posted he fully knows he never has to take responsibility for what he says and never has to treat anyone else in the thread with respect because drone will give him and his circle coverage. The concept of disinformation being censored in a pubic health emergency is now something worth questioning other posters sobriety over because drone says there's no consequences for it. I’m lucky sobriety in posting isn’t brought up more often… I’ve no skin in this particular game. Far as I see it Razyda brought his claim initially, was laughed out of dodge, then showed some evidence via webarchive, that did back up his claim, then there was like 2 pages of needless quibbling and arguments. With a kind of, unrealistic burden of proof on certain things. Hey it may have ended up being fractious anyway, but we could have nearly transitioned straight into the rights/wrongs of censorship of this kind of material. For, whatever reason, this video got pulled. And, I’m going to bet it’s not a copyright infringement. Which is one of the rare examples of YouTube actually listing a reason for a video being taken down. If there is a notice on the original video that says ‘This video is no longer available because of a copyright claim by x’, then I’ll 100% accept I’m wrong. It’s very easily checked. Im just lazy and extremely busy in work. Everything else, I mean no. Verified big content creators can’t even get answers to these kind of questions, much less someone on the outside like us. So I mean people are asking for 100% proof that is not obtainable. Personally, not sure the mechanism but I’m quite confident it’s got flagged and is gone due to being flagged as Covid misinformation. Personally, I’m fine with that, in theory. I haven’t watched said video to comment on it specifically, but in general. I’m pretty hawkish on censoring such things, but I do have misgivings over how it is done, say to the detriment of non-consensus but legitimate study and observation. Or just in a more general ‘who watches the watchmen’ sense. Between here and US Pol, youse may have a different perception but I would comfortably put myself up there amongst the most pro-censorship regular posters. But why are we spending so much time splitting hairs? The video was obviously pulled. It was obviously censored in some form, have a wee chat as to the wisdom or lack thereof. ‘It’s not censorship if you can access it somehow’ is like, absolutely not a yardstick we’d be using in any other conceivable context. Nobody doubts that the war on drug is an ongoing policy because some bloke can still get heroin. Apologies to rant it’s just done my head in, this has been my number 1 source/aggregator for Covid information throughout the whole pandemic, and I have found the time people in related fields have put in absolutely invaluable. The main reason I come here is a combination of people with knowledge I don’t have, that I can interact with but shorn of most of the needless hostility of elsewhere. But of late it really feels even this thread is afflicted with the wider malaise that drove me out of other forums.
I mean I agree. The while conflict just seems to be between someone arguing that it was suppressed for questioning the virus and someone pointing out the reason why it was suppressed. Then people start throwing around semantics over censoring things. But because we have a thread culture now where you don't have to respect anyone else and can just rabbidly cling onto your stance while piling on with increasingly personal insults it's just mush now.
If only there was someone reading the thread to remind people to treat other posters with respect instead of supporting the chief cause of the problem.
The US politics thread never gets this bad and that was suppose to be the trash heap for the forum.
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On November 15 2022 03:55 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2022 01:19 WombaT wrote:
Fucking hell is it just me who’s currently headbutting his keyboard?
Why must every utterance become some Iwo Jima-esque hill that must be defended to the death?
Why are ‘oh I might have jumped the gun there’ or ‘Hm on reflection yeah I was wrong there’ phrases that are seemingly impossible to type out as it pertains to this thread? Exactly. If you find a censored video which is then proven to be a re-upload you could just say "sorry, I made a mistake - however I still think this and that about censorship". Instead of doubling down like this. Incredibly annoying to wade through this.
The problem is that they know they can double-down on any idea no matter how ridiculous it is because other members of that faction will join them. Then you're left with the incredulity that multiple people earnestly believe that a video has not been censored as long as you can find a mirror of it on some other obscure channel. The alternative is that they are arguing in bad faith and trying to gaslight you. Either of those options are a hard pill to swallow and I know evil's frustration quite well.
But as I've said it's all group-think and tribalism. The only reason this is logical to them is because the video in question is something they think is trash. If Elon Musk started deleting people's tweets nobody would be making arguments like "I found this retweet that's still up so Elon Musk isn't actually censoring it."
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The retweet/reupload argument is, once again, disingenuous, but I would expect nothing less from BlackJack.
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On November 15 2022 06:46 Mikau313 wrote:
The retweet/reupload argument is, once again, disingenuous, but I would expect nothing less from BlackJack.
Ah yes, here come the personal insults.
Sorry, but wasn't that literally your argument?
On November 14 2022 18:52 Mikau313 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2022 12:24 evilfatsh1t wrote:
so you guys dont say a word about jimmic's dumb take on censorship because....you owe him your allegiance for other times you have been on the same "side"?
and then the moment your favourite opponent says a word you jump at the opportunity to respond to him whilst completely ignoring the subject matter?
yeah my respect for a lot of people in this thread is going down pretty fast. so far the only one who had the balls to call jimmi out was wombat. everyone else that was generally on good terms with jimmi must have coincidentally stopped reading the thread recently. Or perhaps because it just isn't censorship if the exact same video is still up on the exact same platform under the exact same title. A video that gets removed and then freely gets reuploaded isn't censorship.
What's disingenuous about my post there when I'm simply trying to take your post at face-value?
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Northern Ireland27463 Posts
On November 15 2022 08:54 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2022 06:36 BlackJack wrote:On November 15 2022 03:55 justanothertownie wrote:On November 15 2022 01:19 WombaT wrote:
Fucking hell is it just me who’s currently headbutting his keyboard?
Why must every utterance become some Iwo Jima-esque hill that must be defended to the death?
Why are ‘oh I might have jumped the gun there’ or ‘Hm on reflection yeah I was wrong there’ phrases that are seemingly impossible to type out as it pertains to this thread? Exactly. If you find a censored video which is then proven to be a re-upload you could just say "sorry, I made a mistake - however I still think this and that about censorship". Instead of doubling down like this. Incredibly annoying to wade through this. The problem is that they know they can double-down on any idea no matter how ridiculous it is because other members of that faction will join them. Then you're left with the incredulity that multiple people earnestly believe that a video has not been censored as long as you can find a mirror of it on some other obscure channel. The alternative is that they are arguing in bad faith and trying to gaslight you. Either of those options are a hard pill to swallow and I know evil's frustration quite well. But as I've said it's all group-think and tribalism. The only reason this is logical to them is because the video in question is something they think is trash. If Elon Musk started deleting people's tweets nobody would be making arguments like "I found this retweet that's still up so Elon Musk isn't actually censoring it." Can you point to the tribalism, group think and piling on? From my count more people disagree with me than agree. It seems you have not realized that most of the people that listen to the doctors have moved on, but much of the anti lockdown, anti vaccine encouragement people are still here. The numbers are not against you and you are not some underdog fighting against the man. You literally have a mod who posts often about how you are a fine poster. Wombat switched, and that is fine, I disagree with his new stance but I'm not mad at him for making it and I answered his questions. As I did with justanothertownie, some I just ignored which is rare for me! I have not been back in the thread for long but most, almost all of your posts have not been about covid. They are either about how bad moderation is, how people are piling on (even though more are going in the other direction), or one line pot shots that the moderators have asked people to stop doing but you continue to do without any consequence. At some point you are going to push to far and those sticking up for you are going to realize that you are the shit disturber and not the victim. edit: to clarify, I'm fine with everyone who disagreed with me, I'm not mad about any "piling on" just using the language that is over used in the thread to show there is no conspiracy against conservative posters.
I didn’t switch stance, at all. To 100% clarify
I made a very specific distinction that I’d always have made.
1. For better or worse the example given seems self-evidently censorship. Whether we agree or disagree on if it’s a good idea, have at it.
2. As I’ve said I’m very pro-censorship, within certain parameters. Some of which are perhaps purely hypothetical and difficult to actually do, but I have some frameworks in the hypothetical where I think it’s for the greater good, absolutely.
3. As I also said, perhaps unfairly, but I have my own reasons for, as I also outlined, my instinct is that said video probably contains a bunch of garbage. I cannot verify this in any way as, as I also outlined I’m just burned out on the subject.
I’m not sure how I’ve flipped on anything.
All I’ve said was that this particular item was almost undoubtedly censored, one may think this is a desirous state of affairs or otherwise.
I haven’t watched it myself, I have no opinion on whether that is justified or not.
But like absolutely doubling down on ‘oh I found a mirror so that didn’t happen’ or ‘if you can find something somehow it isn’t censored’ is what I’m objecting to.
It’s ridiculous, it’s not remotely intellectually honest.
If one wants to debate the rationale FOR said censorship, I’m fine with that 100%. Claiming it hasn’t happened, or putting a burden of proof that it occurred, and why that is unobtainable is completely unreasonable.
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Norway28908 Posts
Okay. People; this has gone too far. Any more rehashing of stupid arguments that go in circles, that repeat themselves, anything that can be construed as a manifestation of an unwillingness to let go, of bad faith posting, of posting colored by previous bad interactions, all of this is, from this post onward, will result in bans. I should have thrown out 3-4 of various lengths already, but I really have always strictly adhered to a policy of not banning people in threads where I participate as I don't want to be biased, but now, we are in dire need of a change.
You can all consider yourself pardoned for previous offenses, but should know that the leash right now is short. I'm obviously not expecting you all to suddenly be in agreement on everything, and arguing is fine, but the stupid grudges and the complete unwillingness to just step back and go 'ok, maybe that wasn't entirely reasonable on my behalf', these need to go.
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Northern Ireland27463 Posts
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I’ve been meaning to unsubscribe from this thread for ages, but maybe now I’ll stick around. Thanks!
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I find it interesting how quickly after the initial claim to the contrary the thread was proven to be the complete opposite of an echo chamber. The "sides" (big fat beautiful quotation marks) had to make us wait hardly at all to provide us with this realization.
And that's with the overwhelming majority of bans over the years being focused on anti-vaxxers.
User was warned for this post
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I just heard there is a new wave of Covid at my workplace. We are actually not required to stay home unless we feel sick, but some take the opportunity for some time off with a positive test.
Some of my colleagues had 2 infections, on top of vaccines. It will be interresting to see if anyone gets really sick this time around, but my feeling is that the latest strains blends in seamlessly with other respiratory infections.
At the national level, I can't see signs of a major wave yet.
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Idiotic Djokovic Australia saga just took another turn with Djokovic's 3 year ban overturned.He has been granted a visa to play in the next Australian Open.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/nov/15/tennis-star-novak-djokovic-to-be-granted-visa-to-play-in-australian-open
Guardian Australia understands the immigration minister, Andrew Giles, will give Djokovic a visa, overturning a three-year ban that accompanied the decision by the previous government to cancel his visa on the eve of the 2022 open.
In January 2022 the then Coalition government revoked Djokovic’s visa on the grounds a recent Covid diagnosis did not justify an exemption to Australia’s requirement for visitors to be vaccinated.
Although Djokovic won a temporary reprieve in the federal circuit court, the then immigration minister, Alex Hawke, decided to cancel the visa on the basis Djokovic’s presence in Australia might risk “civil unrest” as he is “perceived by some as a talisman of a community of anti-vaccine sentiment”.
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On November 15 2022 16:33 Slydie wrote:
I just heard there is a new wave of Covid at my workplace. We are actually not required to stay home unless we feel sick, but some take the opportunity for some time off with a positive test.
Some of my colleagues had 2 infections, on top of vaccines. It will be interresting to see if anyone gets really sick this time around, but my feeling is that the latest strains blends in seamlessly with other respiratory infections.
At the national level, I can't see signs of a major wave yet.
Is it confirmed to be COVID? I.e are people testing positive for COVID or are they just sick and assuming it’s COVID? Here we are seeing more flu/rsv than COVID. Especially among pediatrics RSV has been ravaging childrens hospitals across the country. It’s caused some to theorize that there is an “immunity debt” where kids have weakened immune systems from isolating during the pandemic causing them to have a harder time dealing with respiratory viruses. Others have theorized that COVID infections have weakened peoples immune systems long term.
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On November 15 2022 17:59 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2022 16:33 Slydie wrote:
I just heard there is a new wave of Covid at my workplace. We are actually not required to stay home unless we feel sick, but some take the opportunity for some time off with a positive test.
Some of my colleagues had 2 infections, on top of vaccines. It will be interresting to see if anyone gets really sick this time around, but my feeling is that the latest strains blends in seamlessly with other respiratory infections.
At the national level, I can't see signs of a major wave yet. Is it confirmed to be COVID? I.e are people testing positive for COVID or are they just sick and assuming it’s COVID? Here we are seeing more flu/rsv than COVID. Especially among pediatrics RSV has been ravaging childrens hospitals across the country. It’s caused some to theorize that there is an “immunity debt” where kids have weakened immune systems from isolating during the pandemic causing them to have a harder time dealing with respiratory viruses. Others have theorized that COVID infections have weakened peoples immune systems long term.
Slydie wrote "[...] opportunity for some time off with a positive test."
Are you refering to something else in his post with your remark?
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Actually I missed that part. Read his post on an elevator
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On November 15 2022 19:40 BlackJack wrote:
Actually I missed that part. Read his post on an elevator
Gotcha, though I'd maybe missed some context myself.
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On November 15 2022 09:33 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2022 08:54 JimmiC wrote:On November 15 2022 06:36 BlackJack wrote:On November 15 2022 03:55 justanothertownie wrote:On November 15 2022 01:19 WombaT wrote:
Fucking hell is it just me who’s currently headbutting his keyboard?
Why must every utterance become some Iwo Jima-esque hill that must be defended to the death?
Why are ‘oh I might have jumped the gun there’ or ‘Hm on reflection yeah I was wrong there’ phrases that are seemingly impossible to type out as it pertains to this thread? Exactly. If you find a censored video which is then proven to be a re-upload you could just say "sorry, I made a mistake - however I still think this and that about censorship". Instead of doubling down like this. Incredibly annoying to wade through this. The problem is that they know they can double-down on any idea no matter how ridiculous it is because other members of that faction will join them. Then you're left with the incredulity that multiple people earnestly believe that a video has not been censored as long as you can find a mirror of it on some other obscure channel. The alternative is that they are arguing in bad faith and trying to gaslight you. Either of those options are a hard pill to swallow and I know evil's frustration quite well. But as I've said it's all group-think and tribalism. The only reason this is logical to them is because the video in question is something they think is trash. If Elon Musk started deleting people's tweets nobody would be making arguments like "I found this retweet that's still up so Elon Musk isn't actually censoring it." Can you point to the tribalism, group think and piling on? From my count more people disagree with me than agree. It seems you have not realized that most of the people that listen to the doctors have moved on, but much of the anti lockdown, anti vaccine encouragement people are still here. The numbers are not against you and you are not some underdog fighting against the man. You literally have a mod who posts often about how you are a fine poster. Wombat switched, and that is fine, I disagree with his new stance but I'm not mad at him for making it and I answered his questions. As I did with justanothertownie, some I just ignored which is rare for me! I have not been back in the thread for long but most, almost all of your posts have not been about covid. They are either about how bad moderation is, how people are piling on (even though more are going in the other direction), or one line pot shots that the moderators have asked people to stop doing but you continue to do without any consequence. At some point you are going to push to far and those sticking up for you are going to realize that you are the shit disturber and not the victim. edit: to clarify, I'm fine with everyone who disagreed with me, I'm not mad about any "piling on" just using the language that is over used in the thread to show there is no conspiracy against conservative posters. I didn’t switch stance, at all. To 100% clarify I made a very specific distinction that I’d always have made. 1. For better or worse the example given seems self-evidently censorship. Whether we agree or disagree on if it’s a good idea, have at it. 2. As I’ve said I’m very pro-censorship, within certain parameters. Some of which are perhaps purely hypothetical and difficult to actually do, but I have some frameworks in the hypothetical where I think it’s for the greater good, absolutely.3. As I also said, perhaps unfairly, but I have my own reasons for, as I also outlined, my instinct is that said video probably contains a bunch of garbage. I cannot verify this in any way as, as I also outlined I’m just burned out on the subject. I’m not sure how I’ve flipped on anything. All I’ve said was that this particular item was almost undoubtedly censored, one may think this is a desirous state of affairs or otherwise. I haven’t watched it myself, I have no opinion on whether that is justified or not. But like absolutely doubling down on ‘oh I found a mirror so that didn’t happen’ or ‘if you can find something somehow it isn’t censored’ is what I’m objecting to. It’s ridiculous, it’s not remotely intellectually honest. If one wants to debate the rationale FOR said censorship, I’m fine with that 100%. Claiming it hasn’t happened, or putting a burden of proof that it occurred, and why that is unobtainable is completely unreasonable.
Bolded: See I have 2 issues with censorship:
1 - once is accepted it is there to stay and only thing that changes are the people who control it. Lets say that next election is won by Trump or DeSantis. I dont know much about the latter (beside opening schools earlier), but I am inclined to think that censorship under his direction would be less to your liking.
As for Trump - do you really think someone like him wouldn't made full use of it?? Because I can already imagine him pushing it to the limits.
2 - it creates isolation and actually amplifies beliefs. Now totally made up example to explain what I mean: Lets say someone is watching channels where they claim that people getting chipped while vaccinated and channel gets banned. Do you think they'll go to closest university and ask if thats indeed not the case? From what I observed they'll find bunch of likeminded folks and keep convincing each other that this is indeed the case, funnily one of the main arguments will be "They banned the channel because they didnt want people to know..." There wouldn't be even opportunity for counterargument which maybe would give them a pause.
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On November 17 2022 02:48 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2022 09:33 WombaT wrote:On November 15 2022 08:54 JimmiC wrote:On November 15 2022 06:36 BlackJack wrote:On November 15 2022 03:55 justanothertownie wrote:On November 15 2022 01:19 WombaT wrote:
Fucking hell is it just me who’s currently headbutting his keyboard?
Why must every utterance become some Iwo Jima-esque hill that must be defended to the death?
Why are ‘oh I might have jumped the gun there’ or ‘Hm on reflection yeah I was wrong there’ phrases that are seemingly impossible to type out as it pertains to this thread? Exactly. If you find a censored video which is then proven to be a re-upload you could just say "sorry, I made a mistake - however I still think this and that about censorship". Instead of doubling down like this. Incredibly annoying to wade through this. The problem is that they know they can double-down on any idea no matter how ridiculous it is because other members of that faction will join them. Then you're left with the incredulity that multiple people earnestly believe that a video has not been censored as long as you can find a mirror of it on some other obscure channel. The alternative is that they are arguing in bad faith and trying to gaslight you. Either of those options are a hard pill to swallow and I know evil's frustration quite well. But as I've said it's all group-think and tribalism. The only reason this is logical to them is because the video in question is something they think is trash. If Elon Musk started deleting people's tweets nobody would be making arguments like "I found this retweet that's still up so Elon Musk isn't actually censoring it." Can you point to the tribalism, group think and piling on? From my count more people disagree with me than agree. It seems you have not realized that most of the people that listen to the doctors have moved on, but much of the anti lockdown, anti vaccine encouragement people are still here. The numbers are not against you and you are not some underdog fighting against the man. You literally have a mod who posts often about how you are a fine poster. Wombat switched, and that is fine, I disagree with his new stance but I'm not mad at him for making it and I answered his questions. As I did with justanothertownie, some I just ignored which is rare for me! I have not been back in the thread for long but most, almost all of your posts have not been about covid. They are either about how bad moderation is, how people are piling on (even though more are going in the other direction), or one line pot shots that the moderators have asked people to stop doing but you continue to do without any consequence. At some point you are going to push to far and those sticking up for you are going to realize that you are the shit disturber and not the victim. edit: to clarify, I'm fine with everyone who disagreed with me, I'm not mad about any "piling on" just using the language that is over used in the thread to show there is no conspiracy against conservative posters. I didn’t switch stance, at all. To 100% clarify I made a very specific distinction that I’d always have made. 1. For better or worse the example given seems self-evidently censorship. Whether we agree or disagree on if it’s a good idea, have at it. 2. As I’ve said I’m very pro-censorship, within certain parameters. Some of which are perhaps purely hypothetical and difficult to actually do, but I have some frameworks in the hypothetical where I think it’s for the greater good, absolutely.3. As I also said, perhaps unfairly, but I have my own reasons for, as I also outlined, my instinct is that said video probably contains a bunch of garbage. I cannot verify this in any way as, as I also outlined I’m just burned out on the subject. I’m not sure how I’ve flipped on anything. All I’ve said was that this particular item was almost undoubtedly censored, one may think this is a desirous state of affairs or otherwise. I haven’t watched it myself, I have no opinion on whether that is justified or not. But like absolutely doubling down on ‘oh I found a mirror so that didn’t happen’ or ‘if you can find something somehow it isn’t censored’ is what I’m objecting to. It’s ridiculous, it’s not remotely intellectually honest. If one wants to debate the rationale FOR said censorship, I’m fine with that 100%. Claiming it hasn’t happened, or putting a burden of proof that it occurred, and why that is unobtainable is completely unreasonable. Bolded: See I have 2 issues with censorship: 1 - once is accepted it is there to stay and only thing that changes are the people who control it. Lets say that next election is won by Trump or DeSantis. I dont know much about the latter (beside opening schools earlier), but I am inclined to think that censorship under his direction would be less to your liking. As for Trump - do you really think someone like him wouldn't made full use of it?? Because I can already imagine him pushing it to the limits. 2 - it creates isolation and actually amplifies beliefs. Now totally made up example to explain what I mean: Lets say someone is watching channels where they claim that people getting chipped while vaccinated and channel gets banned. Do you think they'll go to closest university and ask if thats indeed not the case? From what I observed they'll find bunch of likeminded folks and keep convincing each other that this is indeed the case, funnily one of the main arguments will be "They banned the channel because they didnt want people to know..." There wouldn't be even opportunity for counterargument which maybe would give them a pause.
What does any of that even remotely have to do with Covid? Take it to the politics thread
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On November 18 2022 17:38 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2022 02:48 Razyda wrote:On November 15 2022 09:33 WombaT wrote:On November 15 2022 08:54 JimmiC wrote:On November 15 2022 06:36 BlackJack wrote:On November 15 2022 03:55 justanothertownie wrote:On November 15 2022 01:19 WombaT wrote:
Fucking hell is it just me who’s currently headbutting his keyboard?
Why must every utterance become some Iwo Jima-esque hill that must be defended to the death?
Why are ‘oh I might have jumped the gun there’ or ‘Hm on reflection yeah I was wrong there’ phrases that are seemingly impossible to type out as it pertains to this thread? Exactly. If you find a censored video which is then proven to be a re-upload you could just say "sorry, I made a mistake - however I still think this and that about censorship". Instead of doubling down like this. Incredibly annoying to wade through this. The problem is that they know they can double-down on any idea no matter how ridiculous it is because other members of that faction will join them. Then you're left with the incredulity that multiple people earnestly believe that a video has not been censored as long as you can find a mirror of it on some other obscure channel. The alternative is that they are arguing in bad faith and trying to gaslight you. Either of those options are a hard pill to swallow and I know evil's frustration quite well. But as I've said it's all group-think and tribalism. The only reason this is logical to them is because the video in question is something they think is trash. If Elon Musk started deleting people's tweets nobody would be making arguments like "I found this retweet that's still up so Elon Musk isn't actually censoring it." Can you point to the tribalism, group think and piling on? From my count more people disagree with me than agree. It seems you have not realized that most of the people that listen to the doctors have moved on, but much of the anti lockdown, anti vaccine encouragement people are still here. The numbers are not against you and you are not some underdog fighting against the man. You literally have a mod who posts often about how you are a fine poster. Wombat switched, and that is fine, I disagree with his new stance but I'm not mad at him for making it and I answered his questions. As I did with justanothertownie, some I just ignored which is rare for me! I have not been back in the thread for long but most, almost all of your posts have not been about covid. They are either about how bad moderation is, how people are piling on (even though more are going in the other direction), or one line pot shots that the moderators have asked people to stop doing but you continue to do without any consequence. At some point you are going to push to far and those sticking up for you are going to realize that you are the shit disturber and not the victim. edit: to clarify, I'm fine with everyone who disagreed with me, I'm not mad about any "piling on" just using the language that is over used in the thread to show there is no conspiracy against conservative posters. I didn’t switch stance, at all. To 100% clarify I made a very specific distinction that I’d always have made. 1. For better or worse the example given seems self-evidently censorship. Whether we agree or disagree on if it’s a good idea, have at it. 2. As I’ve said I’m very pro-censorship, within certain parameters. Some of which are perhaps purely hypothetical and difficult to actually do, but I have some frameworks in the hypothetical where I think it’s for the greater good, absolutely.3. As I also said, perhaps unfairly, but I have my own reasons for, as I also outlined, my instinct is that said video probably contains a bunch of garbage. I cannot verify this in any way as, as I also outlined I’m just burned out on the subject. I’m not sure how I’ve flipped on anything. All I’ve said was that this particular item was almost undoubtedly censored, one may think this is a desirous state of affairs or otherwise. I haven’t watched it myself, I have no opinion on whether that is justified or not. But like absolutely doubling down on ‘oh I found a mirror so that didn’t happen’ or ‘if you can find something somehow it isn’t censored’ is what I’m objecting to. It’s ridiculous, it’s not remotely intellectually honest. If one wants to debate the rationale FOR said censorship, I’m fine with that 100%. Claiming it hasn’t happened, or putting a burden of proof that it occurred, and why that is unobtainable is completely unreasonable. Bolded: See I have 2 issues with censorship: 1 - once is accepted it is there to stay and only thing that changes are the people who control it. Lets say that next election is won by Trump or DeSantis. I dont know much about the latter (beside opening schools earlier), but I am inclined to think that censorship under his direction would be less to your liking. As for Trump - do you really think someone like him wouldn't made full use of it?? Because I can already imagine him pushing it to the limits. 2 - it creates isolation and actually amplifies beliefs. Now totally made up example to explain what I mean: Lets say someone is watching channels where they claim that people getting chipped while vaccinated and channel gets banned. Do you think they'll go to closest university and ask if thats indeed not the case? From what I observed they'll find bunch of likeminded folks and keep convincing each other that this is indeed the case, funnily one of the main arguments will be "They banned the channel because they didnt want people to know..." There wouldn't be even opportunity for counterargument which maybe would give them a pause. What does any of that even remotely have to do with Covid? Take it to the politics thread
A conversation on censorship of COVID misinformation does have some relevance to COVID
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