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On June 22 2026 17:21 Falling wrote: Oh, I fully expect it's as intended from Iran's perspective. It's a mistake for American negotiators to agree to it. what are their other options?
The US needs a deal to get out of this war they cannot win and Iran won't accept a deal without Israel stopping its war of expansion.
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On June 22 2026 13:43 dyhb wrote: The MOU is a surrender agreement. The ongoing embarrassment of Iran doing what it wants when it wants to is just adding insult to injury.
I think the goal was to cave and hope for better gas prices and to take the issue off the table in the midterms. Nope. Won't happen. I agree. It'll definitely be a relevant issue for the midterms. I think most Congressional Republicans seeking reelection will try to pivot and change the subject as frequently as possible.
It would be really interesting to see if any of them attempt to distance themselves from Trump's decisions (maybe something like "Fighting Iran and increasing gas prices are questions for the executive branch, not the legislative branch that I'm a part of"), but I have a feeling that most/all Republicans will continue to be ride-or-die with Trump even into the final two years of Trump's second term.
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On June 22 2026 18:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2026 13:43 dyhb wrote: The MOU is a surrender agreement. The ongoing embarrassment of Iran doing what it wants when it wants to is just adding insult to injury.
I think the goal was to cave and hope for better gas prices and to take the issue off the table in the midterms. Nope. Won't happen. I agree. It'll definitely be a relevant issue for the midterms. I think most Congressional Republicans seeking reelection will try to pivot and change the subject as frequently as possible. It would be really interesting to see if any of them attempt to distance themselves from Trump's decisions (maybe something like "Fighting Iran and increasing gas prices are questions for the executive branch, not the legislative branch that I'm a part of"), but I have a feeling that most/all Republicans will continue to be ride-or-die with Trump even into the final two years of Trump's second term. Except declaring war is explicitly congress' job. So the very next question would be "ok, what will you do to curb executive overreach and stop the US' part in this war (and for incumbents: and why haven't you done this already)?
So yeah, that doesn't sound like an option for most republicans. Meaning they're all team ride-or-die.
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On June 22 2026 20:15 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2026 18:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 22 2026 13:43 dyhb wrote: The MOU is a surrender agreement. The ongoing embarrassment of Iran doing what it wants when it wants to is just adding insult to injury.
I think the goal was to cave and hope for better gas prices and to take the issue off the table in the midterms. Nope. Won't happen. I agree. It'll definitely be a relevant issue for the midterms. I think most Congressional Republicans seeking reelection will try to pivot and change the subject as frequently as possible. It would be really interesting to see if any of them attempt to distance themselves from Trump's decisions (maybe something like "Fighting Iran and increasing gas prices are questions for the executive branch, not the legislative branch that I'm a part of"), but I have a feeling that most/all Republicans will continue to be ride-or-die with Trump even into the final two years of Trump's second term. Except declaring war is explicitly congress' job. So the very next question would be "ok, what will you do to curb executive overreach and stop the US' part in this war (and for incumbents: and why haven't you done this already)? So yeah, that doesn't sound like an option for most republicans. Meaning they're all team ride-or-die. Oh, absolutely. They'll probably wave the topic away with "Everything Trump has done is constitutional and within his rights as president" and maybe play semantics with the definition of "war", and then pivot to trans people or something else.
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On June 22 2026 18:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2026 13:43 dyhb wrote: The MOU is a surrender agreement. The ongoing embarrassment of Iran doing what it wants when it wants to is just adding insult to injury.
I think the goal was to cave and hope for better gas prices and to take the issue off the table in the midterms. Nope. Won't happen. I agree. It'll definitely be a relevant issue for the midterms. I think most Congressional Republicans seeking reelection will try to pivot and change the subject as frequently as possible. It would be really interesting to see if any of them attempt to distance themselves from Trump's decisions (maybe something like "Fighting Iran and increasing gas prices are questions for the executive branch, not the legislative branch that I'm a part of"), but I have a feeling that most/all Republicans will continue to be ride-or-die with Trump even into the final two years of Trump's second term. Let's do some basic calendar analysis here. Midterms are in November. Campaign in the months leading up.
It's June now.
The MOU is a 60-day agreement. There is very likely one of either long-term peace or Third Gulf War by the end of August.
By which time the MOU and what everyone thinks it means will not be relevant, the superseding long-term peace or Third Gulf War and their actual effects will be what's politically relevant. Everything until now has been tweets but if you get Iran abrogating actual negotiations you can easily trigger the peace through strength anti-war president to just send it on the one country he's been hawkish on for 40 years.
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Ah right, the 'Trump wasn't even trying yet' defense.
I'm sure Putin thought the same on his 115th day of the 3 day operation.
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On June 22 2026 21:17 Gorsameth wrote: Ah right, the 'Trump wasn't even trying yet' defense.
I'm sure Putin thought the same on his 115th day of the 3 day operation.
To be fair, they could do an invasion with soldiers, and not just bomb stuff. I wonder how hyped the republican base if for Iraq 2.0, only way harder, more expensive, and with more casualties.
Not doing that is one of the few cases where Trump didn't go for the absolute worst and idiotic move available. So i assume he will remedy that eventually.
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On June 22 2026 21:17 Gorsameth wrote: Ah right, the 'Trump wasn't even trying yet' defense.
I'm sure Putin thought the same on his 115th day of the 3 day operation. You have overlooked a pretty obvious difference that ruins your analogy. Putin had already sent half a million soldiers to Ukraine. The only boots the US has landed in Iran so far were when we built an airbase on their own soil to rescue our downed pilots. There is absolutely potential for significant escalation still. Whether that'd be good or bad or this or that party wants it or not.
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On June 22 2026 17:21 Falling wrote: Oh, I fully expect it's as intended from Iran's perspective. It's a mistake for American negotiators to agree to it. I don't think it's Iran the one occupying parts of Lebanon, so maybe American negotiators should talk to whoever is.
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On June 22 2026 21:17 Gorsameth wrote: Ah right, the 'Trump wasn't even trying yet' defense.
He can't even beat algae in a reflecting pool.
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On June 22 2026 21:30 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2026 21:17 Gorsameth wrote: Ah right, the 'Trump wasn't even trying yet' defense.
I'm sure Putin thought the same on his 115th day of the 3 day operation. You have overlooked a pretty obvious difference that ruins your analogy. Putin had already sent half a million soldiers to Ukraine. The only boots the US has landed in Iran so far were when we built an airbase on their own soil to rescue our downed pilots. There is absolutely potential for significant escalation still. Whether that'd be good or bad or this or that party wants it or not. Sure, the US has room to escalate. But the last 20 times Trump promised the complete destruction of Iran and Iran told him to fuck off the US didn't invade.
Trump loves bullying people. If he was going to invade Iran he would have long since done so. He is being humiliated by Iran on a daily basis. But if this deal doesn't work out, this time. This time he will do it. Nvm he said the same thing the previous 20 times, this time he will do it.
No one is buying it. Except you, apparently.
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On June 22 2026 14:30 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2026 13:46 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:On June 22 2026 12:21 Falling wrote: I have a feeling including the conflict in Lebanon in the MOU, or rather Hezbollah vs Israel was a mistake. Well, the whole thing was a mistake but this was a mistake too. Hezbollah and Israel will just keep stun-locking US in their negotiations with Iran.
It might be a mistake from Trump's administration, but I doubt it's a mistake from Iran. I say Trump's administration, because surely other US based politicians/intel people/generals/pundits in general could have told them that they have no leverage over Israel, and promising things on behalf of Israel won't work. This is not an outcome that should have been a surprise to even other Americans. But also surely, Iran also knew this. Either they agreed to this because they are just deeply unserious about a ceasefire and are just taking this opportunity to make Israel look worse (and the US to look more imcompetant) knowing that this can't work. Or Iran are working to drive a wedge between Israel and Trump, knowing that this was the obvious outcome, and it was going to poop all over Trump's shiny new peace deal, and to some extent that's already working. From Irans position the most valuable thing they can get from this deal is a realistic chance of not getting attacked again. The second most valuable is sanctions getting dropped. The third not getting bombed back to the stone age (because current regime doesn't care much about their people and it's a double edged sword). Israel is not the only reason for the war but they are the biggest one. Including them and Lebanon in the deal makes sense if you are serious about a deal working out long term. And the world can absolutely force Israel to do whatever the deal says. If the US sanctions Israel then EU would be more than happy to go along with that. If the choice stands between sanctions on a small economically irrelevant country or $250/barrel oil China and Asia would jump on it. Taking the world economy hostage when you are a small export focused country is not the powerplay you think it is.
Doubleupgradeobbies has a much better analysis here because he is taking into account that Hezbollah is Iran, not Lebanon.
Clearly it is extremely important for Iran to keep its regional proxies and imperialistic goals, number one being the complete obliteration of Israel. And they are in a position to get absolutely everything they want.
On June 22 2026 22:09 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2026 17:21 Falling wrote: Oh, I fully expect it's as intended from Iran's perspective. It's a mistake for American negotiators to agree to it. I don't think it's Iran the one occupying parts of Lebanon, so maybe American negotiators should talk to whoever is. Yes it is. That is why the talks are so ridiculous. Hezbollah is Iran. Israel has a ceasefire with Lebanon that they are both agreeing too (unknown and probably unlikely if Israel will fulfill its part of leaving once Hezbollah is defeated).
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On June 22 2026 23:32 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2026 21:30 oBlade wrote:On June 22 2026 21:17 Gorsameth wrote: Ah right, the 'Trump wasn't even trying yet' defense.
I'm sure Putin thought the same on his 115th day of the 3 day operation. You have overlooked a pretty obvious difference that ruins your analogy. Putin had already sent half a million soldiers to Ukraine. The only boots the US has landed in Iran so far were when we built an airbase on their own soil to rescue our downed pilots. There is absolutely potential for significant escalation still. Whether that'd be good or bad or this or that party wants it or not. Sure, the US has room to escalate. But the last 20 times Trump promised the complete destruction of Iran and Iran told him to fuck off the US didn't invade. Trump loves bullying people. If he was going to invade Iran he would have long since done so. He is being humiliated by Iran on a daily basis. But if this deal doesn't work out, this time. This time he will do it. Nvm he said the same thing the previous 20 times, this time he will do it. No one is buying it. Except you, apparently. Do you think he legitimately is? Or is the argument just the fun for him? It is hard for me to imagine someone actually following this conflict, being wrong so many times because he trusted Trump, and continuing to trust his word. But apparently there are real people like that, I just can’t wrap my head around it.
Fun to wake up to a bunch of articles from various news sources about how talks back on track after Trumps threats of killing the delegation. It is hard to grip just how unstable he is and that people still firmly believe he is a master negotiator and the right person to lead anything.
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On June 22 2026 23:32 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2026 21:30 oBlade wrote:On June 22 2026 21:17 Gorsameth wrote: Ah right, the 'Trump wasn't even trying yet' defense.
I'm sure Putin thought the same on his 115th day of the 3 day operation. You have overlooked a pretty obvious difference that ruins your analogy. Putin had already sent half a million soldiers to Ukraine. The only boots the US has landed in Iran so far were when we built an airbase on their own soil to rescue our downed pilots. There is absolutely potential for significant escalation still. Whether that'd be good or bad or this or that party wants it or not. Sure, the US has room to escalate. But the last 20 times Trump promised the complete destruction of Iran and Iran told him to fuck off the US didn't invade. Trump loves bullying people. If he was going to invade Iran he would have long since done so. He is being humiliated by Iran on a daily basis. But if this deal doesn't work out, this time. This time he will do it. Nvm he said the same thing the previous 20 times, this time he will do it. No one is buying it. Except you, apparently. What am I buying, again?
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On June 22 2026 23:37 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2026 14:30 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On June 22 2026 13:46 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:On June 22 2026 12:21 Falling wrote: I have a feeling including the conflict in Lebanon in the MOU, or rather Hezbollah vs Israel was a mistake. Well, the whole thing was a mistake but this was a mistake too. Hezbollah and Israel will just keep stun-locking US in their negotiations with Iran.
It might be a mistake from Trump's administration, but I doubt it's a mistake from Iran. I say Trump's administration, because surely other US based politicians/intel people/generals/pundits in general could have told them that they have no leverage over Israel, and promising things on behalf of Israel won't work. This is not an outcome that should have been a surprise to even other Americans. But also surely, Iran also knew this. Either they agreed to this because they are just deeply unserious about a ceasefire and are just taking this opportunity to make Israel look worse (and the US to look more imcompetant) knowing that this can't work. Or Iran are working to drive a wedge between Israel and Trump, knowing that this was the obvious outcome, and it was going to poop all over Trump's shiny new peace deal, and to some extent that's already working. From Irans position the most valuable thing they can get from this deal is a realistic chance of not getting attacked again. The second most valuable is sanctions getting dropped. The third not getting bombed back to the stone age (because current regime doesn't care much about their people and it's a double edged sword). Israel is not the only reason for the war but they are the biggest one. Including them and Lebanon in the deal makes sense if you are serious about a deal working out long term. And the world can absolutely force Israel to do whatever the deal says. If the US sanctions Israel then EU would be more than happy to go along with that. If the choice stands between sanctions on a small economically irrelevant country or $250/barrel oil China and Asia would jump on it. Taking the world economy hostage when you are a small export focused country is not the powerplay you think it is. Doubleupgradeobbies has a much better analysis here because he is taking into account that Hezbollah is Iran, not Lebanon. Clearly it is extremely important for Iran to keep its regional proxies and imperialistic goals, number one being the complete obliteration of Israel. And they are in a position to get absolutely everything they want. Show nested quote +On June 22 2026 22:09 Godwrath wrote:On June 22 2026 17:21 Falling wrote: Oh, I fully expect it's as intended from Iran's perspective. It's a mistake for American negotiators to agree to it. I don't think it's Iran the one occupying parts of Lebanon, so maybe American negotiators should talk to whoever is. Yes it is. That is why the talks are so ridiculous. Hezbollah is Iran. Israel has a ceasefire with Lebanon that they are both agreeing too (unknown and probably unlikely if Israel will fulfill its part of leaving once Hezbollah is defeated).
But Hezbollah is in Lebanon. Arguably they are a greater power than the Lebanese government.
Israel wants to bomb Irans oil industry, powerplants and infrastructure turning Iran into a failed state. Iran sees itself a local power and Hezbollah as one of its ways to project that power. Israel is their main (but not only) advesary. Given the current actions just making peace with the US and leaving Israel out to do whatever they want makes no sense from Irans perspective. They will gain no permanent security since it's likely that Israel will just attack them anyway and maybe even rope the US back into it.
Keeping Hezbollah in Lebanon serves two purposes. First its offensive potential against Israel in any future war. Especially now with drones being a thing. Second it's a way to test US security guarantees and how serious the US is about this deal. The may not trust the US but they absolutely can't trust Israel. If USA is willing to reign in Israel in Lebanon it's a pretty good signal there would be consequences if Israel unilaterally decides to break a future treaty. It also costs the US nothing and can be sold as a win at home.
Also Israel has nukes and the biggest army in the middle east so no one takes Iran wanting to destroy Israel seriously. Not even Israel which is why they had no problem escalating this to a full on war. The only thing that matters is Iran not getting a nuke which together with an open strait is the two things the world and the US wants. As long as Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons Israels feelings about existential safety are ridiculous.
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It’s 45 degrees (113F) in France today, and 41 in Paris.
But hey, climate change is a cult and let’s drill clean, beautiful coal, baby.
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On June 23 2026 00:03 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2026 23:37 Billyboy wrote:On June 22 2026 14:30 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On June 22 2026 13:46 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:On June 22 2026 12:21 Falling wrote: I have a feeling including the conflict in Lebanon in the MOU, or rather Hezbollah vs Israel was a mistake. Well, the whole thing was a mistake but this was a mistake too. Hezbollah and Israel will just keep stun-locking US in their negotiations with Iran.
It might be a mistake from Trump's administration, but I doubt it's a mistake from Iran. I say Trump's administration, because surely other US based politicians/intel people/generals/pundits in general could have told them that they have no leverage over Israel, and promising things on behalf of Israel won't work. This is not an outcome that should have been a surprise to even other Americans. But also surely, Iran also knew this. Either they agreed to this because they are just deeply unserious about a ceasefire and are just taking this opportunity to make Israel look worse (and the US to look more imcompetant) knowing that this can't work. Or Iran are working to drive a wedge between Israel and Trump, knowing that this was the obvious outcome, and it was going to poop all over Trump's shiny new peace deal, and to some extent that's already working. From Irans position the most valuable thing they can get from this deal is a realistic chance of not getting attacked again. The second most valuable is sanctions getting dropped. The third not getting bombed back to the stone age (because current regime doesn't care much about their people and it's a double edged sword). Israel is not the only reason for the war but they are the biggest one. Including them and Lebanon in the deal makes sense if you are serious about a deal working out long term. And the world can absolutely force Israel to do whatever the deal says. If the US sanctions Israel then EU would be more than happy to go along with that. If the choice stands between sanctions on a small economically irrelevant country or $250/barrel oil China and Asia would jump on it. Taking the world economy hostage when you are a small export focused country is not the powerplay you think it is. Doubleupgradeobbies has a much better analysis here because he is taking into account that Hezbollah is Iran, not Lebanon. Clearly it is extremely important for Iran to keep its regional proxies and imperialistic goals, number one being the complete obliteration of Israel. And they are in a position to get absolutely everything they want. On June 22 2026 22:09 Godwrath wrote:On June 22 2026 17:21 Falling wrote: Oh, I fully expect it's as intended from Iran's perspective. It's a mistake for American negotiators to agree to it. I don't think it's Iran the one occupying parts of Lebanon, so maybe American negotiators should talk to whoever is. Yes it is. That is why the talks are so ridiculous. Hezbollah is Iran. Israel has a ceasefire with Lebanon that they are both agreeing too (unknown and probably unlikely if Israel will fulfill its part of leaving once Hezbollah is defeated). But Hezbollah is in Lebanon. Arguably they are a greater power than the Lebanese government. Israel wants to bomb Irans oil industry, powerplants and infrastructure turning Iran into a failed state. Iran sees itself a local power and Hezbollah as one of its ways to project that power. Israel is their main (but not only) advesary. Given the current actions just making peace with the US and leaving Israel out to do whatever they want makes no sense from Irans perspective. They will gain no permanent security since it's likely that Israel will just attack them anyway and maybe even rope the US back into it. Keeping Hezbollah in Lebanon serves two purposes. First its offensive potential against Israel in any future war. Especially now with drones being a thing. Second it's a way to test US security guarantees and how serious the US is about this deal. The may not trust the US but they absolutely can't trust Israel. If USA is willing to reign in Israel in Lebanon it's a pretty good signal there would be consequences if Israel unilaterally decides to break a future treaty. It also costs the US nothing and can be sold as a win at home. Also Israel has nukes and the biggest army in the middle east so no one takes Iran wanting to destroy Israel seriously. Not even Israel which is why they had no problem escalating this to a full on war. The only thing that matters is Iran not getting a nuke which together with an open strait is the two things the world and the US wants. As long as Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons Israels feelings about existential safety are ridiculous.
I’m not sure if you forgot about Oct 7th or know that much of northern Israel is often evacuated because of threat of rocket attack. That it’s super unlikely that Iran could actually kill every single one of them without a nuke doesn’t make it ridiculous that they are scared for themselves and others.
Israel is far away from Iran, they can’t project their power that far and win. That is why they have not gone to full war with Iran.
I also disagree with you on “everything that matters”.
I understand why Iran wants Hezbollah, I also understand why Lebanon and Israel do not.
Do you not understand why Israel, Lebanon (hell most of the Middle East countries) want Irans ability to not support terrorists (their proxy armies) abroad? I get that the Us has capitulated in this like they have on so many other points. But it is no shock why Israel has not. This is far more important to them than the strait opening up.
Edit: also ballistic missile s was a big deal to Israel (and other Middle East nations). And it doesn’t seem like the nuke is even off the table yet, just promises to talk about it.
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On June 23 2026 00:04 Biff The Understudy wrote: It’s 45 degrees (113F) in France today, and 41 in Paris.
But hey, climate change is a cult and let’s drill clean, beautiful coal, baby. As if on cue, even some Republican senators are occasionally standing up to Trump's anti-science / anti-environment / pro-climate-change agenda:
"On Wednesday, the Senate passed a bipartisan bill establishing that no federal funds shall be used to “decommission or descope” the Ocean Observatories Initiative (OOI) system, a $368 million network critical to understanding climate change and marine ecosystems. The Trump administration has abandoned plans to dismantle a decade-old, deep-ocean observation network that scientists have used to track changes in the ocean and monitor marine heatwaves and coastal flooding." https://earth.org/trump-administration-drops-plans-to-dismantle-key-ocean-observation-network/
Unfortunately, Trump is still continuing to try to pressure everyone else to ignore climate change:
"The fate of a World Bank climate target is hanging in the balance as the Trump administration pressures the institution to jettison what it calls a “distortionary” and “nonsensical” policy. The bank pledged three years ago to devote 45 percent of its funding to climate-related projects by 2025. It exceeded that goal by directing $39.2 billion, or 48 percent of its financing last year, to projects with climate benefits. It came as the Trump administration has called on the institution to abandon the target and increase the number of natural gas projects in its portfolio." https://www.eenews.net/articles/us-pushes-world-bank-climate-target-to-the-brink/
"The Trump administration revealed the list of materials that the National Park Service removed from parks across the country that relate to civil rights, diverse populations, science, and the environment. ... Examples of items that were removed include signs about climate change at parks like Acadia National Park in Maine and Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge in New York; materials involving civil rights at the National Mall in Washington, D.C. and at the Medgar and Myrtle Evans Home National Monument in Jackson, Mississippi; materials involving slavery at the President’s House in Philadelphia and materials on women’s rights at the Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge at the Gateway National Recreation Area in New York." https://abcnews.com/Politics/trump-administration-reveals-list-civil-rights-climate-change/story?id=133997786
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On June 23 2026 00:13 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2026 00:03 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On June 22 2026 23:37 Billyboy wrote:On June 22 2026 14:30 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On June 22 2026 13:46 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:On June 22 2026 12:21 Falling wrote: I have a feeling including the conflict in Lebanon in the MOU, or rather Hezbollah vs Israel was a mistake. Well, the whole thing was a mistake but this was a mistake too. Hezbollah and Israel will just keep stun-locking US in their negotiations with Iran.
It might be a mistake from Trump's administration, but I doubt it's a mistake from Iran. I say Trump's administration, because surely other US based politicians/intel people/generals/pundits in general could have told them that they have no leverage over Israel, and promising things on behalf of Israel won't work. This is not an outcome that should have been a surprise to even other Americans. But also surely, Iran also knew this. Either they agreed to this because they are just deeply unserious about a ceasefire and are just taking this opportunity to make Israel look worse (and the US to look more imcompetant) knowing that this can't work. Or Iran are working to drive a wedge between Israel and Trump, knowing that this was the obvious outcome, and it was going to poop all over Trump's shiny new peace deal, and to some extent that's already working. From Irans position the most valuable thing they can get from this deal is a realistic chance of not getting attacked again. The second most valuable is sanctions getting dropped. The third not getting bombed back to the stone age (because current regime doesn't care much about their people and it's a double edged sword). Israel is not the only reason for the war but they are the biggest one. Including them and Lebanon in the deal makes sense if you are serious about a deal working out long term. And the world can absolutely force Israel to do whatever the deal says. If the US sanctions Israel then EU would be more than happy to go along with that. If the choice stands between sanctions on a small economically irrelevant country or $250/barrel oil China and Asia would jump on it. Taking the world economy hostage when you are a small export focused country is not the powerplay you think it is. Doubleupgradeobbies has a much better analysis here because he is taking into account that Hezbollah is Iran, not Lebanon. Clearly it is extremely important for Iran to keep its regional proxies and imperialistic goals, number one being the complete obliteration of Israel. And they are in a position to get absolutely everything they want. On June 22 2026 22:09 Godwrath wrote:On June 22 2026 17:21 Falling wrote: Oh, I fully expect it's as intended from Iran's perspective. It's a mistake for American negotiators to agree to it. I don't think it's Iran the one occupying parts of Lebanon, so maybe American negotiators should talk to whoever is. Yes it is. That is why the talks are so ridiculous. Hezbollah is Iran. Israel has a ceasefire with Lebanon that they are both agreeing too (unknown and probably unlikely if Israel will fulfill its part of leaving once Hezbollah is defeated). But Hezbollah is in Lebanon. Arguably they are a greater power than the Lebanese government. Israel wants to bomb Irans oil industry, powerplants and infrastructure turning Iran into a failed state. Iran sees itself a local power and Hezbollah as one of its ways to project that power. Israel is their main (but not only) advesary. Given the current actions just making peace with the US and leaving Israel out to do whatever they want makes no sense from Irans perspective. They will gain no permanent security since it's likely that Israel will just attack them anyway and maybe even rope the US back into it. Keeping Hezbollah in Lebanon serves two purposes. First its offensive potential against Israel in any future war. Especially now with drones being a thing. Second it's a way to test US security guarantees and how serious the US is about this deal. The may not trust the US but they absolutely can't trust Israel. If USA is willing to reign in Israel in Lebanon it's a pretty good signal there would be consequences if Israel unilaterally decides to break a future treaty. It also costs the US nothing and can be sold as a win at home. Also Israel has nukes and the biggest army in the middle east so no one takes Iran wanting to destroy Israel seriously. Not even Israel which is why they had no problem escalating this to a full on war. The only thing that matters is Iran not getting a nuke which together with an open strait is the two things the world and the US wants. As long as Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons Israels feelings about existential safety are ridiculous. I’m not sure if you forgot about Oct 7th or know that much of northern Israel is often evacuated because of threat of rocket attack. That it’s super unlikely that Iran could actually kill every single one of them without a nuke doesn’t make it ridiculous that they are scared for themselves and others. Israel is far away from Iran, they can’t project their power that far and win. That is why they have not gone to full war with Iran. I also disagree with you on “everything that matters”. I understand why Iran wants Hezbollah, I also understand why Lebanon and Israel do not. Do you not understand why Israel, Lebanon (hell most of the Middle East countries) want Irans ability to not support terrorists (their proxy armies) abroad? I get that the Us has capitulated in this like they have on so many other points. But it is no shock why Israel has not. This is far more important to them than the strait opening up. Edit: also ballistic missile s was a big deal to Israel (and other Middle East nations). And it doesn’t seem like the nuke is even off the table yet, just promises to talk about it. I would be more understanding of Israels plight if it wasn't waging a war of expansion and engaging in an open land grab.
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On June 23 2026 00:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2026 00:04 Biff The Understudy wrote: It’s 45 degrees (113F) in France today, and 41 in Paris.
But hey, climate change is a cult and let’s drill clean, beautiful coal, baby. As if on cue, even some Republican senators are occasionally standing up to Trump's anti-science / anti-environment / pro-climate-change agenda: "On Wednesday, the Senate passed a bipartisan bill establishing that no federal funds shall be used to “decommission or descope” the Ocean Observatories Initiative (OOI) system, a $368 million network critical to understanding climate change and marine ecosystems. The Trump administration has abandoned plans to dismantle a decade-old, deep-ocean observation network that scientists have used to track changes in the ocean and monitor marine heatwaves and coastal flooding." https://earth.org/trump-administration-drops-plans-to-dismantle-key-ocean-observation-network/ Unfortunately, Trump is still continuing to try to pressure everyone else to ignore climate change: "The fate of a World Bank climate target is hanging in the balance as the Trump administration pressures the institution to jettison what it calls a “distortionary” and “nonsensical” policy. The bank pledged three years ago to devote 45 percent of its funding to climate-related projects by 2025. It exceeded that goal by directing $39.2 billion, or 48 percent of its financing last year, to projects with climate benefits. It came as the Trump administration has called on the institution to abandon the target and increase the number of natural gas projects in its portfolio." https://www.eenews.net/articles/us-pushes-world-bank-climate-target-to-the-brink/ "The Trump administration revealed the list of materials that the National Park Service removed from parks across the country that relate to civil rights, diverse populations, science, and the environment. ... Examples of items that were removed include signs about climate change at parks like Acadia National Park in Maine and Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge in New York; materials involving civil rights at the National Mall in Washington, D.C. and at the Medgar and Myrtle Evans Home National Monument in Jackson, Mississippi; materials involving slavery at the President’s House in Philadelphia and materials on women’s rights at the Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge at the Gateway National Recreation Area in New York." https://abcnews.com/Politics/trump-administration-reveals-list-civil-rights-climate-change/story?id=133997786 Probably the worst thing Trump will have done. The consequences of those years for future generations will be enormous.
I think the speed and the visibility of environmental degradation and climate change is the most scary thing I have witnessed in my lifetime.
But hey, won’t touch the bottom line of the oil industry. Some people are making serious money, so let the world burn in peace.
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