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The Republican Party's one and only mission is to deliver wealth to the ruling class. Every other issue (racism, queerphobia, abortion, immigrants, guns, COVID masks, paper straws) are just distractions so their base doesn't develop class consciousness.
Ayn Rand's beliefs are a pseudo-intellectual veil they have used to try and give some legitimacy to their beliefs, but since Trump they've realized it's not even necessary to bother pretending with any of that because their base doesn't care, they just want minorities to suffer and the pretext is irrelevant.
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On January 29 2026 19:19 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2026 18:27 Gorsameth wrote:On January 29 2026 17:56 Simberto wrote:On January 29 2026 14:11 Manit0u wrote:On January 29 2026 12:24 Billyboy wrote:
Does anyone remember way long ago when Republicans said state rights were really important and were super mad when ever the Feds tried to force states into things. And it wasn't the things, they often said they didn't agree with those or they were unimportant, it was state rights. Well well well well, how the turntables have turned. Like it was already mentioned numerous times, Republicans have absolutely no moral backbone whatsoever. They will say whatever suits their agenda in the current moment and their followers will switch their worldview on a dime if necessary. Trump and his admin have been flip-flopping between contradictory statements for a year now and whatever they say the narrative shifts to support them. This reminds me of those flashy things from Men in Black that make people forget what happened. It seems that every time Republicans flip to a stance contradictory to their previous one it's like their entire voter base immediately forgets everything that was said previously and smoothly transitions into the new reality. The whole process is scarily 1984. The alternative interpretation is that they never really believe anything they say. There are no ideas beyond "winning" in there. No concepts, no beliefs, no deeper stances on anything. And by "they" i don't mean the politicians, i mean the whole US conservative movement. That is not an alternative interpretation, it is objective reality. Maybe once there was an underlying belief, but that hasn't been the case for as long as I can remember. + Show Spoiler +I meant it as an alternative to the "they constantly swap what they believe around" 1984 interpretation of their behaviour. One of those two must be true, and both are not good.
One means they are 1984 levels of brainwashed, the other that they are completely intellectually dishonest.
I also tend to believe it is the latter, especially after more than a decade of contact with our forum conservatives in this thread. It might also be a combination of the two, where some people really always believe the truth of the day, while others just lie all day long. What doesn't exist is an explanation where US conservatives have any leg to stand on.
What this also means is that the Democrats and their supporters are the right-wing/conservative edge of sanity, with members like Fetterman clearly going over the edge.
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I have a feeling that one day, GH is going to be somewhere at a protest and an ICE agent might literally put his boot on his face an GH will be yelling at him to explain that the reason why Trump and Miller empowered people like him to abuse him is actually the democrats not stopping them when they could.
Jesus man, you have a worse case of Democrat derangement syndrome then any republican I've seen, and that includes the regulars here who start every long winded post explaining how fascists were in the right for killing people resisting them because those people were manipulated by democrats...
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On January 29 2026 03:13 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2026 01:13 ChristianS wrote:+ Show Spoiler +So far the administration’s retreat on ICE isn’t much of a retreat – they’re still beating up random civilians in MN, Noem and Miller still have jobs – but it is notable in that their whole theory of power and PR has been “never back down, never apologize.” They’ve arguably backed down before – bringing back Kilmar Abrego Garcia when SCOTUS told them to, for example, or promising not to take Greenland by military force – but this is a pretty public “oo, we touched the hot stove, we regret that” which they are normally insistent they never do.
Now part of why they normally refuse is because they think it just shows weakness and forces you to keep giving more and more ground. We’ll see, I hope so! But a big component here is that it happened to time out exactly with Senate Democrats deciding whether to block more ICE funding. If it were just public outcry over the killing, they might have held to their line; if it were just Democrats shutting down the government over ICE, they might have relished the fight; but the combination has them suing for peace. In the broader picture, I regret to conclude that elected Democrats, those limp-dick septuagenarians, are still a pretty important piece in stopping the fascists. How best to use them, I’m not sure, but impressive as the street-level organizing in MN has been, I don’t think we can take our eyes off the traditional mechanisms of power, however badly they’ve failed us up to this point. There isn't much of anything to use them for. At their best, they "do" (much less than the minimum they reluctantly promise in response to) what an overwhelming number of people demand happens, once those demands have made the status quo unsustainable. At the end of the day, that's what people expect of any political class, even dictators. The example that comes to mind is refusing to fund ICE unless they have accountability measures like (somewhat ironically) visible identification of some kind (as opposed to masked goons). The only way that happens is if there isn't a functional choice for Democrats not to. But elected Democrats know they can disregard their supporters needs/demands and those supporters will even rationalize Democrats continuing funding the US Gestapo themselves. Democrats are a right-wing conservative party full of enablers, Republicans are fascists they're enabling until/unless they are both stopped afaict.
Are you disagreeing with me on any particular point? I think you and I probably have someone different understandings of what their internal motivations look like, but functionally it’s the same – elected Democrats have to be dragged into doing what they should be doing, but getting them to do that is still pretty important in achieving better political outcomes.
I’m not happy to report this – I hate spending my time thinking about what Chuck Schumer will or won’t be willing to do – but, like, my sister lives in Minneapolis. Short-term political outcomes matter a lot here, and unfortunately, elected Democrats matter quite a bit in changing them.
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United States43536 Posts
On January 30 2026 01:26 Jankisa wrote:
I have a feeling that one day, GH is going to be somewhere at a protest and an ICE agent might literally put his boot on his face an GH will be yelling at him to explain that the reason why Trump and Miller empowered people like him to abuse him is actually the democrats not stopping them when they could.
Jesus man, you have a worse case of Democrat derangement syndrome then any republican I've seen, and that includes the regulars here who start every long winded post explaining how fascists were in the right for killing people resisting them because those people were manipulated by democrats...
GH at a protest doesn’t sound plausible to me.
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On January 29 2026 00:24 oBlade wrote:Yes, that's basically correct. With the quibbling exception of like Rivera, who was killed because he was running away from ICE across an interstate and got hit by traffic. Since he was fleeing he can't really said to have been in custody. To distinguish the two people I mentioned who were shot, but not in custody (hence why my two names aren't on your list), the couple of people in your list who were shot in custody were shot by the terrorist Joshua Jahn in an attack on a facility in Dallas. But the gist of your post is exactly correct. More people die of heart attacks/strokes, or terminal illness in hospitals they are transferred to after being apprehended by the secret police, than of being shot and killed by the secret police. For 2025 at least.
How many people is ICE allowed to shoot and kill and is it directly correlated to the amount of people that are allowed to die via heart attack?
Is your argument we should stop spending so much on ICE and spend more on health care? Because I agree.
I use "they" in scare quotes because if killing annoying people were a federal-wide policy, the streets would be red. Local and state police kill more than that (and this is before even looking at justified vs. not), and if you suggested local and state police are terrorists who need to be abolished, I would just think your freely held opinion was wrong. Now but if you stoop to saying I'm also the enemy and defending terrorists by association just by virtue of not agreeing with you, if you were a US citizen I would submit that that is just Weather Underground level subversion. Even the civil war was more cordial.
By most first world nation standards, yes our police should be abolished and replaced by a new law enforcement department. Our police killing rate would send any European country into a crisis overnight. The fact our police are so murderous does not mean we should give ICE a pass on murdering people. The difference is local/state police have well established accountability standards and processes, where as ICE has been given "Immunity" by Stephen Miller & Kristi Noem, and under supremacy clause with an indifferent DOJ there is zero accountability.
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On January 29 2026 03:05 Jankisa wrote:Did the guy who was ruled a homicide recently in Texas also terminally ill and just happened to die while the ICE agent was choking him? https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/cuban-immigrant-in-ice-custody-died-of-homicide-due-to-asphyxia-autopsy-findsIsn't it a bit weird that there is no investigation as far as I can find into this case, despite the coroner ruling it a homicide? Or this gentleman from Bulgaria who was denied proper medical care and died in custody: https://abc7chicago.com/post/bulgarian-chicago-business-owner-nenko-gantchev-dies-ice-custody-family-congresswoman-call-immediate-investigation/18301520/The guy was in Chicago for 30 years, he had a DUI in 2008 and was ordered to be deported to Bulgaria, but, he was appealing and was actually arrested as he was attending his Green card hearing. So this guy with health problems was arrested, held for 2+ months in shitty conditions with a diet that was going to cause his death (he had diabetes) eventually, to which he complained about, but your fascist buddies ignored it and let him die. This was a guy who paid his taxes, had a permanent status until he fucked up with a DUI and then he was punished for this by death, while being called a criminal. This is what secret police does, the guy was trying to stay in a legal way, he paid for this with his life and you are here defending this. This is just the first guy from the first link from this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deaths_in_ICE_detentionBut you don't give a fuck, you don't see them as humans because you are a nazi.
First case is going to a wrongful death lawsuit now.
You know what I don't see from you? The guy was an aggravated convicted felon and child sex offender who came here in the 90s.
The 90s.
The lawsuit is literally in progress. What's your solution, an immediate extrajudicial judgment? Here's my solution. You enforce the standing immigration law EVEN MORE and he would never have been here that day to die of his own poor health plus a weird chokehold, or whatever it was. He would have been deported already, long before, so he could pass away in some other country's prison system because there is no reason to keep and not rapidly eject a repeat criminal.
I mean even if ICE never targeted anyone who wasn't a "CRIMINAL" illegal alien, they would still get that guy. Which nobody else will do without ICE. Especially not sanctuary cities. "Prison conditions are not perfect and someone made a mistake" isn't Naziism. Hitler came into power in 1933. Night of the Long Knives was the next year. Kristallnacht was 1938 (5 years later). Almost a hundred dead on each. Trump was elected in 2016 and it's 2026 now. The sunk cost is gone. Just be glad you were wrong and the fascism never came.
But so you post some people who died of natural causes mixed with some questionable circumstances and call me a Nazi. You know what there are a lot more of? Criminals. You know what criminals have? Victims. Who are there overwhelmingly more victims of than the DHS? The criminals they go after. You don't have empathy for those victims: when I explain the criminals and the victims' stories to add a human face to the cold statistics that demonstrate overwhelming success, you also just go "durr Nazi." Your empathy is an unconsidered performative meme you got tricked into by the TV. It's allocated solely towards the things that are rare because those cases are easier to wrap your head around. And your mind is predisposed to prioritize the thing that can be used towards supporting your existing conclusion of destructive revolutionary change, especially when it involves destroying something you have no stake in to begin with.
It doesn't affect you or your life, you're on another continent and have never had to feel the effects. Abolish the DHS and leave those criminals at large? Not interested. You're almost a funny guy, admitting you live under the umbrella of strict immigration control in Croatia and feigning concern "hey maybe there should be a way to enforce immigration laws after all" after calling me Stormfront 20 times apropos of nothing.
We're obviously not opening the borders because a couple overworked or incompetent or careless people allegedly missed or didn't believe a guy saying he had diabetes.
So here's the other solution. I'd love more money for prisons and detention facilities. All public, no private. Stop prison rape, stop the race gangs, allow more breathing room with more and better help and oversight levels so people don't make needless mistakes or negligence based on overcrowding, lack of funding, and so on. Make enough room to additionally house all the repeat offenders in revolving door jurisdictions that currently are let out after 30 and 40 and 50 priors by progressive DAs. I'd fund that by taxing foreign remittances, hiking foreign admission to national parks and facilities, and by rerouting all "NGO" funding to actual government-run public programs like detention facilities that aren't private. Since they're public dollars they should be run by the government, contracted to real companies that actually work, or just not spent at all.
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On January 30 2026 01:26 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2026 00:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 29 2026 19:19 Simberto wrote:On January 29 2026 18:27 Gorsameth wrote:On January 29 2026 17:56 Simberto wrote:On January 29 2026 14:11 Manit0u wrote:On January 29 2026 12:24 Billyboy wrote:
Does anyone remember way long ago when Republicans said state rights were really important and were super mad when ever the Feds tried to force states into things. And it wasn't the things, they often said they didn't agree with those or they were unimportant, it was state rights. Well well well well, how the turntables have turned. Like it was already mentioned numerous times, Republicans have absolutely no moral backbone whatsoever. They will say whatever suits their agenda in the current moment and their followers will switch their worldview on a dime if necessary. Trump and his admin have been flip-flopping between contradictory statements for a year now and whatever they say the narrative shifts to support them. This reminds me of those flashy things from Men in Black that make people forget what happened. It seems that every time Republicans flip to a stance contradictory to their previous one it's like their entire voter base immediately forgets everything that was said previously and smoothly transitions into the new reality. The whole process is scarily 1984. The alternative interpretation is that they never really believe anything they say. There are no ideas beyond "winning" in there. No concepts, no beliefs, no deeper stances on anything. And by "they" i don't mean the politicians, i mean the whole US conservative movement. That is not an alternative interpretation, it is objective reality. Maybe once there was an underlying belief, but that hasn't been the case for as long as I can remember. + Show Spoiler +I meant it as an alternative to the "they constantly swap what they believe around" 1984 interpretation of their behaviour. One of those two must be true, and both are not good.
One means they are 1984 levels of brainwashed, the other that they are completely intellectually dishonest.
I also tend to believe it is the latter, especially after more than a decade of contact with our forum conservatives in this thread. It might also be a combination of the two, where some people really always believe the truth of the day, while others just lie all day long. What doesn't exist is an explanation where US conservatives have any leg to stand on. What this also means is that the Democrats and their supporters are the right-wing/conservative edge of sanity, with members like Fetterman clearly going over the edge. I have a feeling that one day, GH is going to be somewhere at a protest and an ICE agent might literally put his boot on his face an GH will be yelling at him to explain that the reason why Trump and Miller empowered people like him to abuse him is actually the democrats not stopping them when they could. Jesus man, you have a worse case of Democrat derangement syndrome then any republican I've seen, and that includes the regulars here who start every long winded post explaining how fascists were in the right for killing people resisting them because those people were manipulated by democrats...
No one here needs to be/can be convinced that Republicans are fascists and obviously opposed to their goals. Despite that, it is predominantly what you all post about when you're not bickering with people you all have known for years are just trolling you to waste your time and laugh. So much so, even Zero was asking for better from yall and was promptly (and sadly imo) ignored.
Contrary to that, people are still struggling with recognizing/understanding how/why Democrats are purportedly for the same things they ostensibly are, but are actually an oppositional force to what posters here would say are their desired policies.
Rather than navigating and illuminating that reality, everyone focuses on how much they don't like that I point it out and they dislike/belittle me as a person for it. It's honestly a pretty lucid picture of what the actual struggle in the US is (and has been for decades, if not it's whole existence) really about.
US Bipartisan Core Identity* (arguably applies here as well): There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect
It's right there in the founding documents and has been in practice ever since. Trump/Fascism and Democrats being the far-right conservative edge of sanity is a symptom/consequence, not a root cause of this.
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On January 30 2026 03:59 oBlade wrote:
It doesn't affect you or your life, you're on another continent and have never had to feel the effects. Abolish the DHS and leave those criminals at large? Not interested. You're almost a funny guy, admitting you live under the umbrella of strict immigration control in Croatia and feigning concern "hey maybe there should be a way to enforce immigration laws after all" after calling me Stormfront 20 times apropos of nothing.
No, no, you misunderstand buddy, I'm calling you a Nazi because you are one.
You spend a lot of time cheering on and calling for the worse and most inhumane treatment for people who are, in more then half of the cases guilty of 0 violent crimes.
I have always been for a logical approach to immigration, which I explained extensively here over the last year, USA has put itself in a uniquely fucked situation and my approach lies somewhere smack dab in the middle between your "let's let the worse people possible who I will never criticize because I'm a scarred little bootlicker exercise their worse instincts and defend them at all costs" and GH's "not one single deportation because Democrats suck and we used to be a very fucked up country".
Unfortunately, your American brains are not able to understand nuance, so you run into your respective camps, him into the Tankie one, you into the blood and soil, Nazi one.
My concern is that your NSS literally calls for overthrowing of European regimes who don't agree with your fucked up worldview, so that's why I spend a lot of my time calling out nazies like you.
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On January 30 2026 04:04 GreenHorizons wrote:
It's right there in the founding documents and has been in practice ever since. Trump/Fascism and Democrats being the far-right conservative edge of sanity is a symptom/consequence, not a root cause of this.
Why don't you leave USA GH?
I once asked you which country would you say has a choice that is not "the lesser evil", you never answered.
Why don't you pick the best approximation and pack your bags and move?
If I hated my own country and country men (and you apparently hate all republicans and 99 % of the left side of the spectrum as well) I'd be out at the first possible sign.
I can tell you right now that even if the tide of fascism is turned back, Americans won't replace it with equitable socialism, at best it's going to be some sort of Obama like politics.
In fact, if your fantasy comes true, and USA gets a Amerimaidan, there is 99.99 % chance that the people who come on top of that will absolutely be much closer to current Democrats (assuming it's not them) then to some sort of a real leftist.
There is no real leftism in USA, I'm sure that even Bernie and AOC don't pass your purity test, so on what do you actually base your hope that revolution will bring a trully leftist America?
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On January 30 2026 04:58 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2026 04:04 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 30 2026 01:26 Jankisa wrote:On January 30 2026 00:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 29 2026 19:19 Simberto wrote:On January 29 2026 18:27 Gorsameth wrote:On January 29 2026 17:56 Simberto wrote:On January 29 2026 14:11 Manit0u wrote:On January 29 2026 12:24 Billyboy wrote:
Does anyone remember way long ago when Republicans said state rights were really important and were super mad when ever the Feds tried to force states into things. And it wasn't the things, they often said they didn't agree with those or they were unimportant, it was state rights. Well well well well, how the turntables have turned. Like it was already mentioned numerous times, Republicans have absolutely no moral backbone whatsoever. They will say whatever suits their agenda in the current moment and their followers will switch their worldview on a dime if necessary. Trump and his admin have been flip-flopping between contradictory statements for a year now and whatever they say the narrative shifts to support them. This reminds me of those flashy things from Men in Black that make people forget what happened. It seems that every time Republicans flip to a stance contradictory to their previous one it's like their entire voter base immediately forgets everything that was said previously and smoothly transitions into the new reality. The whole process is scarily 1984. The alternative interpretation is that they never really believe anything they say. There are no ideas beyond "winning" in there. No concepts, no beliefs, no deeper stances on anything. And by "they" i don't mean the politicians, i mean the whole US conservative movement. That is not an alternative interpretation, it is objective reality. Maybe once there was an underlying belief, but that hasn't been the case for as long as I can remember. + Show Spoiler +I meant it as an alternative to the "they constantly swap what they believe around" 1984 interpretation of their behaviour. One of those two must be true, and both are not good.
One means they are 1984 levels of brainwashed, the other that they are completely intellectually dishonest.
I also tend to believe it is the latter, especially after more than a decade of contact with our forum conservatives in this thread. It might also be a combination of the two, where some people really always believe the truth of the day, while others just lie all day long. What doesn't exist is an explanation where US conservatives have any leg to stand on. What this also means is that the Democrats and their supporters are the right-wing/conservative edge of sanity, with members like Fetterman clearly going over the edge. I have a feeling that one day, GH is going to be somewhere at a protest and an ICE agent might literally put his boot on his face an GH will be yelling at him to explain that the reason why Trump and Miller empowered people like him to abuse him is actually the democrats not stopping them when they could. Jesus man, you have a worse case of Democrat derangement syndrome then any republican I've seen, and that includes the regulars here who start every long winded post explaining how fascists were in the right for killing people resisting them because those people were manipulated by democrats... No one here needs to be/can be convinced that Republicans are fascists and obviously opposed to their goals. Despite that, it is predominantly what you all post about when you're not bickering with people you all have known for years are just trolling you to waste your time and laugh. So much so, even Zero was asking for better from yall and was promptly (and sadly imo) ignored. Contrary to that, people are still struggling with recognizing/understanding how/why Democrats are purportedly for the same things they ostensibly are, but are actually an oppositional force to what posters here would say are their desired policies. Rather than navigating and illuminating that reality, everyone focuses on how much they don't like that I point it out and they dislike/belittle me as a person for it. It's honestly a pretty lucid picture of what the actual struggle in the US is (and has been for decades, if not it's whole existence) really about. US Bipartisan Core Identity* (arguably applies here as well): There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect It's right there in the founding documents and has been in practice ever since. Trump/Fascism and Democrats being the far-right conservative edge of sanity is a symptom/consequence, not a root cause of this. Why don't you leave USA GH? + Show Spoiler +I once asked you which country would you say has a choice that is not "the lesser evil", you never answered.
Why don't you pick the best approximation and pack your bags and move?
If I hated my own country and country men (and you apparently hate all republicans and 99 % of the left side of the spectrum as well) I'd be out at the first possible sign.
I can tell you right now that even if the tide of fascism is turned back, Americans won't replace it with equitable socialism, at best it's going to be some sort of Obama like politics.
In fact, if your fantasy comes true, and USA gets a Amerimaidan, there is 99.99 % chance that the people who come on top of that will absolutely be much closer to current Democrats (assuming it's not them) then to some sort of a real leftist. There is no real leftism in USA, I'm sure that even Bernie and AOC don't pass your purity test, so on what do you actually base your hope that revolution will bring a trully leftist America?
For better or worse, it's the only home I know. I also don't believe there's any safe place to hide, particularly if the people that oppose the fascist takeover of the US all leave. I also feel a responsibility to the generations of people before that fought and died genuinely believing in the most optimistic parts of the American experiment. I'd also struggle to find joy/peace/freedom in a life I know is only possible because I'm deliberately abandoning/exploiting the most vulnerable people I know when I'm still capable of standing with them against this wave of fascism. I've mentioned before, I don't want to go unless the so-called "dregs" of society can come with me as refugees as well.
Ultimately, I want to journey through peace and enjoy the gift that is life and want everyone else to be able to do the same while expanding our critical consciousness to dimensions unimaginable under current circumstances. Not in a "hippy-dippy utopian" way, but in a very practical and scientific way. I don't think (or really care or believe it matters either way) that makes me morally better than you all or whatever you all are constantly accusing me of. I just (you can say "selfishly" if you want) believe the anti-thesis to what Light and Kwark mentioned before conservatism: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect
which is:
Anti-conservatism: the law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone
Or as the variations among socialists go, something like: "No one is free until everyone is free"
I base my hope in a socialist revolution, in part, on its inescapably necessity to all of our freedom. That's regardless of how unlikely anyone imagines that revolution being.
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I mean, there is not much I disagree with your stance, but your signaling, at least to me, and I believe most here who have a realistic view of the situation seems delusional.
It's the definition of the mean girls meme, "stop making the socialist revolution happen, it's never going to happen".
Even if you look at bounce backs from fascism in history, you have Italy and Germany who replaced it with liberalism, which, given the strong emphasis on capitalism there seems to not fit in your vision of how things should work.
Overall, I think you and I have the same utopia in our minds in our best case scenarios, but, as something of a realist I understand that's incredibly unlikely to happen because it goes against the human nature as I know it.
I would love to believe that humans, on average, are empathetic and wonderful beings, but all of human history tells me otherwise. Human beings are, on average, easy to manipulate and rile up, quick to anger and quick to blame anyone but themselves and their in-group.
I asked you where you'd go for a reason, you seem to be hiding your preferences on this, perhaps because of your inherent disgust with choosing a lesser evil, but that's not how most people go through life, things don't work like that.
Do you have a job? Do you pay taxes?
If so, then, you choose many lesser evils along the way, so why not internalize that this is how things work and try to be real with yourself and the world, for a change, maybe?
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On January 30 2026 05:45 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2026 05:36 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 30 2026 04:58 Jankisa wrote:On January 30 2026 04:04 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 30 2026 01:26 Jankisa wrote:On January 30 2026 00:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 29 2026 19:19 Simberto wrote:On January 29 2026 18:27 Gorsameth wrote:On January 29 2026 17:56 Simberto wrote:On January 29 2026 14:11 Manit0u wrote:
[quote]
Like it was already mentioned numerous times, Republicans have absolutely no moral backbone whatsoever. They will say whatever suits their agenda in the current moment and their followers will switch their worldview on a dime if necessary. Trump and his admin have been flip-flopping between contradictory statements for a year now and whatever they say the narrative shifts to support them.
This reminds me of those flashy things from Men in Black that make people forget what happened. It seems that every time Republicans flip to a stance contradictory to their previous one it's like their entire voter base immediately forgets everything that was said previously and smoothly transitions into the new reality. The whole process is scarily 1984. The alternative interpretation is that they never really believe anything they say. There are no ideas beyond "winning" in there. No concepts, no beliefs, no deeper stances on anything. And by "they" i don't mean the politicians, i mean the whole US conservative movement. That is not an alternative interpretation, it is objective reality. Maybe once there was an underlying belief, but that hasn't been the case for as long as I can remember. + Show Spoiler +I meant it as an alternative to the "they constantly swap what they believe around" 1984 interpretation of their behaviour. One of those two must be true, and both are not good.
One means they are 1984 levels of brainwashed, the other that they are completely intellectually dishonest.
I also tend to believe it is the latter, especially after more than a decade of contact with our forum conservatives in this thread. It might also be a combination of the two, where some people really always believe the truth of the day, while others just lie all day long. What doesn't exist is an explanation where US conservatives have any leg to stand on. What this also means is that the Democrats and their supporters are the right-wing/conservative edge of sanity, with members like Fetterman clearly going over the edge. I have a feeling that one day, GH is going to be somewhere at a protest and an ICE agent might literally put his boot on his face an GH will be yelling at him to explain that the reason why Trump and Miller empowered people like him to abuse him is actually the democrats not stopping them when they could. Jesus man, you have a worse case of Democrat derangement syndrome then any republican I've seen, and that includes the regulars here who start every long winded post explaining how fascists were in the right for killing people resisting them because those people were manipulated by democrats... No one here needs to be/can be convinced that Republicans are fascists and obviously opposed to their goals. Despite that, it is predominantly what you all post about when you're not bickering with people you all have known for years are just trolling you to waste your time and laugh. So much so, even Zero was asking for better from yall and was promptly (and sadly imo) ignored. Contrary to that, people are still struggling with recognizing/understanding how/why Democrats are purportedly for the same things they ostensibly are, but are actually an oppositional force to what posters here would say are their desired policies. Rather than navigating and illuminating that reality, everyone focuses on how much they don't like that I point it out and they dislike/belittle me as a person for it. It's honestly a pretty lucid picture of what the actual struggle in the US is (and has been for decades, if not it's whole existence) really about. US Bipartisan Core Identity* (arguably applies here as well): There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect It's right there in the founding documents and has been in practice ever since. Trump/Fascism and Democrats being the far-right conservative edge of sanity is a symptom/consequence, not a root cause of this. Why don't you leave USA GH? + Show Spoiler +I once asked you which country would you say has a choice that is not "the lesser evil", you never answered.
Why don't you pick the best approximation and pack your bags and move?
If I hated my own country and country men (and you apparently hate all republicans and 99 % of the left side of the spectrum as well) I'd be out at the first possible sign.
I can tell you right now that even if the tide of fascism is turned back, Americans won't replace it with equitable socialism, at best it's going to be some sort of Obama like politics.
In fact, if your fantasy comes true, and USA gets a Amerimaidan, there is 99.99 % chance that the people who come on top of that will absolutely be much closer to current Democrats (assuming it's not them) then to some sort of a real leftist. There is no real leftism in USA, I'm sure that even Bernie and AOC don't pass your purity test, so on what do you actually base your hope that revolution will bring a trully leftist America? For better or worse, it's the only home I know. I also don't believe there's any safe place to hide, particularly if the people that oppose the fascist takeover of the US all leave. I also feel a responsibility to the generations of people before that fought and died genuinely believing in the most optimistic parts of the American experiment. I'd also struggle to find joy/peace/freedom in a life I know is only possible because I'm deliberately abandoning/exploiting the most vulnerable people I know when I'm still capable of standing with them against this wave of fascism. I've mentioned before, I don't want to go unless the so-called "dregs" of society can come with me as refugees as well. Ultimately, I want to journey through peace and enjoy the gift that is life and want everyone else to be able to do the same while expanding our critical consciousness to dimensions unimaginable under current circumstances. Not in a "hippy-dippy utopian" way, but in a very practical and scientific way. I don't think (or really care or believe it matters either way) that makes me morally better than you all or whatever you all are constantly accusing me of. I just (you can say "selfishly" if you want) believe the anti-thesis to what Light and Kwark mentioned before conservatism: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect which is: Anti-conservatism: the law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone Or as the variations among socialists go, something like: "No one is free until everyone is free" I base my hope in a socialist revolution, in part, on its inescapably necessity to all of our freedom. That's regardless of how unlikely anyone imagines that revolution being. I mean, there is not much I disagree with your stance + Show Spoiler +, but your signaling, at least to me, and I believe most here who have a realistic view of the situation seems delusional.
It's the definition of the mean girls meme, "stop making the socialist revolution happen, it's never going to happen".
Even if you look at bounce backs from fascism in history, you have Italy and Germany who replaced it with liberalism, which, given the strong emphasis on capitalism there seems to not fit in your vision of how things should work.
Overall, I think you and I have the same utopia in our minds in our best case scenarios, but, as something of a realist I understand that's incredibly unlikely to happen because it goes against the human nature as I know it. I would love to believe that humans, on average, are empathetic and wonderful beings, but all of human history tells me otherwise. Human beings are, on average, easy to manipulate and rile up, quick to anger and quick to blame anyone but themselves and their in-group. + Show Spoiler +I asked you where you'd go for a reason, you seem to be hiding your preferences on this, perhaps because of your inherent disgust with choosing a lesser evil, but that's not how most people go through life, things don't work like that.
Do you have a job? Do you pay taxes? If so, then, you choose many lesser evils along the way, so why not internalize that this is how things work and try to be real with yourself and the world, for a change, maybe?
Okay...
This "human nature" argument in favor of capitalism and against socialism is rooted in the same typical right-wing propaganda as the rest of their rhetoric on what they call "human nature". Even accepting it, it reinforces the necessity/benefits of society's organizing principle being socialism as the "lesser evil" to capitalism
The "realism" you describe is the same old typical "white moderate" stuff. To slightly paraphrase MLK Jr. "The great stumbling block in our stride toward freedom is not the Republicans or the MAGAts, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the oppressed to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection."
It might have been before your time, but you should understand that the problem I've pointed about "lesser evilism" isn't that that it's an entirely unreasonable heuristic generally. It's that much like "non-violence", it's not an absolute. In order to have much value, it has to be accompanied by some practical boundaries. This is an easily recognizable theme in the history presented in "This Nonviolent Stuff'll Get You Killed", which was among my previous recommendations.
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On January 30 2026 05:36 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2026 04:58 Jankisa wrote:On January 30 2026 04:04 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 30 2026 01:26 Jankisa wrote:On January 30 2026 00:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 29 2026 19:19 Simberto wrote:On January 29 2026 18:27 Gorsameth wrote:On January 29 2026 17:56 Simberto wrote:On January 29 2026 14:11 Manit0u wrote:On January 29 2026 12:24 Billyboy wrote:
Does anyone remember way long ago when Republicans said state rights were really important and were super mad when ever the Feds tried to force states into things. And it wasn't the things, they often said they didn't agree with those or they were unimportant, it was state rights. Well well well well, how the turntables have turned. Like it was already mentioned numerous times, Republicans have absolutely no moral backbone whatsoever. They will say whatever suits their agenda in the current moment and their followers will switch their worldview on a dime if necessary. Trump and his admin have been flip-flopping between contradictory statements for a year now and whatever they say the narrative shifts to support them. This reminds me of those flashy things from Men in Black that make people forget what happened. It seems that every time Republicans flip to a stance contradictory to their previous one it's like their entire voter base immediately forgets everything that was said previously and smoothly transitions into the new reality. The whole process is scarily 1984. The alternative interpretation is that they never really believe anything they say. There are no ideas beyond "winning" in there. No concepts, no beliefs, no deeper stances on anything. And by "they" i don't mean the politicians, i mean the whole US conservative movement. That is not an alternative interpretation, it is objective reality. Maybe once there was an underlying belief, but that hasn't been the case for as long as I can remember. + Show Spoiler +I meant it as an alternative to the "they constantly swap what they believe around" 1984 interpretation of their behaviour. One of those two must be true, and both are not good.
One means they are 1984 levels of brainwashed, the other that they are completely intellectually dishonest.
I also tend to believe it is the latter, especially after more than a decade of contact with our forum conservatives in this thread. It might also be a combination of the two, where some people really always believe the truth of the day, while others just lie all day long. What doesn't exist is an explanation where US conservatives have any leg to stand on. What this also means is that the Democrats and their supporters are the right-wing/conservative edge of sanity, with members like Fetterman clearly going over the edge. I have a feeling that one day, GH is going to be somewhere at a protest and an ICE agent might literally put his boot on his face an GH will be yelling at him to explain that the reason why Trump and Miller empowered people like him to abuse him is actually the democrats not stopping them when they could. Jesus man, you have a worse case of Democrat derangement syndrome then any republican I've seen, and that includes the regulars here who start every long winded post explaining how fascists were in the right for killing people resisting them because those people were manipulated by democrats... No one here needs to be/can be convinced that Republicans are fascists and obviously opposed to their goals. Despite that, it is predominantly what you all post about when you're not bickering with people you all have known for years are just trolling you to waste your time and laugh. So much so, even Zero was asking for better from yall and was promptly (and sadly imo) ignored. Contrary to that, people are still struggling with recognizing/understanding how/why Democrats are purportedly for the same things they ostensibly are, but are actually an oppositional force to what posters here would say are their desired policies. Rather than navigating and illuminating that reality, everyone focuses on how much they don't like that I point it out and they dislike/belittle me as a person for it. It's honestly a pretty lucid picture of what the actual struggle in the US is (and has been for decades, if not it's whole existence) really about. US Bipartisan Core Identity* (arguably applies here as well): There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect It's right there in the founding documents and has been in practice ever since. Trump/Fascism and Democrats being the far-right conservative edge of sanity is a symptom/consequence, not a root cause of this. Why don't you leave USA GH? + Show Spoiler +I once asked you which country would you say has a choice that is not "the lesser evil", you never answered.
Why don't you pick the best approximation and pack your bags and move?
If I hated my own country and country men (and you apparently hate all republicans and 99 % of the left side of the spectrum as well) I'd be out at the first possible sign.
I can tell you right now that even if the tide of fascism is turned back, Americans won't replace it with equitable socialism, at best it's going to be some sort of Obama like politics.
In fact, if your fantasy comes true, and USA gets a Amerimaidan, there is 99.99 % chance that the people who come on top of that will absolutely be much closer to current Democrats (assuming it's not them) then to some sort of a real leftist. There is no real leftism in USA, I'm sure that even Bernie and AOC don't pass your purity test, so on what do you actually base your hope that revolution will bring a trully leftist America? For better or worse, it's the only home I know. I also don't believe there's any safe place to hide, particularly if the people that oppose the fascist takeover of the US all leave. I also feel a responsibility to the generations of people before that fought and died genuinely believing in the most optimistic parts of the American experiment. I'd also struggle to find joy/peace/freedom in a life I know is only possible because I'm deliberately abandoning/exploiting the most vulnerable people I know when I'm still capable of standing with them against this wave of fascism. I've mentioned before, I don't want to go unless the so-called "dregs" of society can come with me as refugees as well. Ultimately, I want to journey through peace and enjoy the gift that is life and want everyone else to be able to do the same while expanding our critical consciousness to dimensions unimaginable under current circumstances. Not in a "hippy-dippy utopian" way, but in a very practical and scientific way. I don't think (or really care or believe it matters either way) that makes me morally better than you all or whatever you all are constantly accusing me of. I just (you can say "selfishly" if you want) believe the anti-thesis to what Light and Kwark mentioned before Show nested quote +conservatism: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect which is: Show nested quote +Anti-conservatism: the law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone Or as the variations among socialists go, something like: I base my hope in a socialist revolution, in part, on its inescapably necessity to all of our freedom. That's regardless of how unlikely anyone imagines that revolution being.
Out of curiosity, do you do anything for all your great ideas to come true but writing on teamliquid?
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On January 30 2026 07:12 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2026 05:36 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 30 2026 04:58 Jankisa wrote:On January 30 2026 04:04 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 30 2026 01:26 Jankisa wrote:On January 30 2026 00:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 29 2026 19:19 Simberto wrote:On January 29 2026 18:27 Gorsameth wrote:On January 29 2026 17:56 Simberto wrote:On January 29 2026 14:11 Manit0u wrote:
[quote]
Like it was already mentioned numerous times, Republicans have absolutely no moral backbone whatsoever. They will say whatever suits their agenda in the current moment and their followers will switch their worldview on a dime if necessary. Trump and his admin have been flip-flopping between contradictory statements for a year now and whatever they say the narrative shifts to support them.
This reminds me of those flashy things from Men in Black that make people forget what happened. It seems that every time Republicans flip to a stance contradictory to their previous one it's like their entire voter base immediately forgets everything that was said previously and smoothly transitions into the new reality. The whole process is scarily 1984. The alternative interpretation is that they never really believe anything they say. There are no ideas beyond "winning" in there. No concepts, no beliefs, no deeper stances on anything. And by "they" i don't mean the politicians, i mean the whole US conservative movement. That is not an alternative interpretation, it is objective reality. Maybe once there was an underlying belief, but that hasn't been the case for as long as I can remember. + Show Spoiler +I meant it as an alternative to the "they constantly swap what they believe around" 1984 interpretation of their behaviour. One of those two must be true, and both are not good.
One means they are 1984 levels of brainwashed, the other that they are completely intellectually dishonest.
I also tend to believe it is the latter, especially after more than a decade of contact with our forum conservatives in this thread. It might also be a combination of the two, where some people really always believe the truth of the day, while others just lie all day long. What doesn't exist is an explanation where US conservatives have any leg to stand on. What this also means is that the Democrats and their supporters are the right-wing/conservative edge of sanity, with members like Fetterman clearly going over the edge. I have a feeling that one day, GH is going to be somewhere at a protest and an ICE agent might literally put his boot on his face an GH will be yelling at him to explain that the reason why Trump and Miller empowered people like him to abuse him is actually the democrats not stopping them when they could. Jesus man, you have a worse case of Democrat derangement syndrome then any republican I've seen, and that includes the regulars here who start every long winded post explaining how fascists were in the right for killing people resisting them because those people were manipulated by democrats... No one here needs to be/can be convinced that Republicans are fascists and obviously opposed to their goals. Despite that, it is predominantly what you all post about when you're not bickering with people you all have known for years are just trolling you to waste your time and laugh. So much so, even Zero was asking for better from yall and was promptly (and sadly imo) ignored. Contrary to that, people are still struggling with recognizing/understanding how/why Democrats are purportedly for the same things they ostensibly are, but are actually an oppositional force to what posters here would say are their desired policies. Rather than navigating and illuminating that reality, everyone focuses on how much they don't like that I point it out and they dislike/belittle me as a person for it. It's honestly a pretty lucid picture of what the actual struggle in the US is (and has been for decades, if not it's whole existence) really about. US Bipartisan Core Identity* (arguably applies here as well): There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect It's right there in the founding documents and has been in practice ever since. Trump/Fascism and Democrats being the far-right conservative edge of sanity is a symptom/consequence, not a root cause of this. Why don't you leave USA GH? + Show Spoiler +I once asked you which country would you say has a choice that is not "the lesser evil", you never answered.
Why don't you pick the best approximation and pack your bags and move?
If I hated my own country and country men (and you apparently hate all republicans and 99 % of the left side of the spectrum as well) I'd be out at the first possible sign.
I can tell you right now that even if the tide of fascism is turned back, Americans won't replace it with equitable socialism, at best it's going to be some sort of Obama like politics.
In fact, if your fantasy comes true, and USA gets a Amerimaidan, there is 99.99 % chance that the people who come on top of that will absolutely be much closer to current Democrats (assuming it's not them) then to some sort of a real leftist. There is no real leftism in USA, I'm sure that even Bernie and AOC don't pass your purity test, so on what do you actually base your hope that revolution will bring a trully leftist America? For better or worse, it's the only home I know. I also don't believe there's any safe place to hide, particularly if the people that oppose the fascist takeover of the US all leave. I also feel a responsibility to the generations of people before that fought and died genuinely believing in the most optimistic parts of the American experiment. I'd also struggle to find joy/peace/freedom in a life I know is only possible because I'm deliberately abandoning/exploiting the most vulnerable people I know when I'm still capable of standing with them against this wave of fascism. I've mentioned before, I don't want to go unless the so-called "dregs" of society can come with me as refugees as well. Ultimately, I want to journey through peace and enjoy the gift that is life and want everyone else to be able to do the same while expanding our critical consciousness to dimensions unimaginable under current circumstances. Not in a "hippy-dippy utopian" way, but in a very practical and scientific way. I don't think (or really care or believe it matters either way) that makes me morally better than you all or whatever you all are constantly accusing me of. I just (you can say "selfishly" if you want) believe the anti-thesis to what Light and Kwark mentioned before conservatism: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect which is: Anti-conservatism: the law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone Or as the variations among socialists go, something like: "No one is free until everyone is free" I base my hope in a socialist revolution, in part, on its inescapably necessity to all of our freedom. That's regardless of how unlikely anyone imagines that revolution being. Out of curiosity, do you do anything for all your great ideas to come true but writing on teamliquid?
Yes. Since well before I was a socialist and was working toward advancing/electing Democrats like Obama. I did a lot of organizing and groundwork for Bernie Sanders too. Since I've been a socialist, I've engaged in more direct actions and community engagement.
I generally try to keep a sort of rhythm of study, praxis, review/discuss with comrades, repeat. I have local comrades I do this with. I have online/national comrades I do this with. I believe we would all benefit from doing this here (or in my blog/in your own localities) as well.
That said, I haven't even really pressed the revolution stuff here since the election (not that I've shied away from supporting it). I've been pointing out the necessity of fleshing out the alternatives that are supposed to be preferable. People realizing that amounts to Kwark's ghost hunting in GTA or whatever and generalized shrugs/"vote blue no matter who!" otherwise, makes people upset. Since I'm the one bringing this to people's attention, they misplace blame for their anxiety and their righteous rage on me. This regularly leads to them to lashing out emotionally and attacking me personally. While I can empathize, I don't find it particularly conducive to productive discussion.
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United States43536 Posts
It’s not your beliefs that people don’t like, it’s your personality.
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On January 30 2026 05:36 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2026 04:58 Jankisa wrote:On January 30 2026 04:04 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 30 2026 01:26 Jankisa wrote:On January 30 2026 00:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 29 2026 19:19 Simberto wrote:On January 29 2026 18:27 Gorsameth wrote:On January 29 2026 17:56 Simberto wrote:On January 29 2026 14:11 Manit0u wrote:On January 29 2026 12:24 Billyboy wrote:
Does anyone remember way long ago when Republicans said state rights were really important and were super mad when ever the Feds tried to force states into things. And it wasn't the things, they often said they didn't agree with those or they were unimportant, it was state rights. Well well well well, how the turntables have turned. Like it was already mentioned numerous times, Republicans have absolutely no moral backbone whatsoever. They will say whatever suits their agenda in the current moment and their followers will switch their worldview on a dime if necessary. Trump and his admin have been flip-flopping between contradictory statements for a year now and whatever they say the narrative shifts to support them. This reminds me of those flashy things from Men in Black that make people forget what happened. It seems that every time Republicans flip to a stance contradictory to their previous one it's like their entire voter base immediately forgets everything that was said previously and smoothly transitions into the new reality. The whole process is scarily 1984. The alternative interpretation is that they never really believe anything they say. There are no ideas beyond "winning" in there. No concepts, no beliefs, no deeper stances on anything. And by "they" i don't mean the politicians, i mean the whole US conservative movement. That is not an alternative interpretation, it is objective reality. Maybe once there was an underlying belief, but that hasn't been the case for as long as I can remember. + Show Spoiler +I meant it as an alternative to the "they constantly swap what they believe around" 1984 interpretation of their behaviour. One of those two must be true, and both are not good.
One means they are 1984 levels of brainwashed, the other that they are completely intellectually dishonest.
I also tend to believe it is the latter, especially after more than a decade of contact with our forum conservatives in this thread. It might also be a combination of the two, where some people really always believe the truth of the day, while others just lie all day long. What doesn't exist is an explanation where US conservatives have any leg to stand on. What this also means is that the Democrats and their supporters are the right-wing/conservative edge of sanity, with members like Fetterman clearly going over the edge. I have a feeling that one day, GH is going to be somewhere at a protest and an ICE agent might literally put his boot on his face an GH will be yelling at him to explain that the reason why Trump and Miller empowered people like him to abuse him is actually the democrats not stopping them when they could. Jesus man, you have a worse case of Democrat derangement syndrome then any republican I've seen, and that includes the regulars here who start every long winded post explaining how fascists were in the right for killing people resisting them because those people were manipulated by democrats... No one here needs to be/can be convinced that Republicans are fascists and obviously opposed to their goals. Despite that, it is predominantly what you all post about when you're not bickering with people you all have known for years are just trolling you to waste your time and laugh. So much so, even Zero was asking for better from yall and was promptly (and sadly imo) ignored. Contrary to that, people are still struggling with recognizing/understanding how/why Democrats are purportedly for the same things they ostensibly are, but are actually an oppositional force to what posters here would say are their desired policies. Rather than navigating and illuminating that reality, everyone focuses on how much they don't like that I point it out and they dislike/belittle me as a person for it. It's honestly a pretty lucid picture of what the actual struggle in the US is (and has been for decades, if not it's whole existence) really about. US Bipartisan Core Identity* (arguably applies here as well): There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect It's right there in the founding documents and has been in practice ever since. Trump/Fascism and Democrats being the far-right conservative edge of sanity is a symptom/consequence, not a root cause of this. Why don't you leave USA GH? + Show Spoiler +I once asked you which country would you say has a choice that is not "the lesser evil", you never answered.
Why don't you pick the best approximation and pack your bags and move?
If I hated my own country and country men (and you apparently hate all republicans and 99 % of the left side of the spectrum as well) I'd be out at the first possible sign.
I can tell you right now that even if the tide of fascism is turned back, Americans won't replace it with equitable socialism, at best it's going to be some sort of Obama like politics.
In fact, if your fantasy comes true, and USA gets a Amerimaidan, there is 99.99 % chance that the people who come on top of that will absolutely be much closer to current Democrats (assuming it's not them) then to some sort of a real leftist. There is no real leftism in USA, I'm sure that even Bernie and AOC don't pass your purity test, so on what do you actually base your hope that revolution will bring a trully leftist America? For better or worse, it's the only home I know. I also don't believe there's any safe place to hide, particularly if the people that oppose the fascist takeover of the US all leave . I also feel a responsibility to the generations of people before that fought and died genuinely believing in the most optimistic parts of the American experiment. I'd also struggle to find joy/peace/freedom in a life I know is only possible because I'm deliberately abandoning/exploiting the most vulnerable people I know when I'm still capable of standing with them against this wave of fascism. I've mentioned before, I don't want to go unless the so-called "dregs" of society can come with me as refugees as well. Ultimately, I want to journey through peace and enjoy the gift that is life and want everyone else to be able to do the same while expanding our critical consciousness to dimensions unimaginable under current circumstances. Not in a "hippy-dippy utopian" way, but in a very practical and scientific way. I don't think (or really care or believe it matters either way) that makes me morally better than you all or whatever you all are constantly accusing me of. I just (you can say "selfishly" if you want) believe the anti-thesis to what Light and Kwark mentioned before Show nested quote +conservatism: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect which is: Show nested quote +Anti-conservatism: the law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone Or as the variations among socialists go, something like: I base my hope in a socialist revolution, in part, on its inescapably necessity to all of our freedom. That's regardless of how unlikely anyone imagines that revolution being.
I'm interested that you feel that way (bolded text)
I'd assume US history is foundationally capitalist and exploitative so much so as to be irreparable, so it's surprising to me that you'd have what feels like a contradictory position. I don't know US history well enough to call you outright wrong, but I'm curious if you feel/know that your feeling of responsibility is actually rational, or 'just' emotional. Given your general position of "America is doomed, we need drastic revolution!" it feels contradictory.
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On January 30 2026 07:50 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2026 07:12 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 30 2026 05:36 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 30 2026 04:58 Jankisa wrote:On January 30 2026 04:04 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 30 2026 01:26 Jankisa wrote:On January 30 2026 00:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 29 2026 19:19 Simberto wrote:On January 29 2026 18:27 Gorsameth wrote:On January 29 2026 17:56 Simberto wrote:
[quote]
The whole process is scarily 1984.
The alternative interpretation is that they never really believe anything they say. There are no ideas beyond "winning" in there. No concepts, no beliefs, no deeper stances on anything. And by "they" i don't mean the politicians, i mean the whole US conservative movement. That is not an alternative interpretation, it is objective reality. Maybe once there was an underlying belief, but that hasn't been the case for as long as I can remember. + Show Spoiler +I meant it as an alternative to the "they constantly swap what they believe around" 1984 interpretation of their behaviour. One of those two must be true, and both are not good.
One means they are 1984 levels of brainwashed, the other that they are completely intellectually dishonest.
I also tend to believe it is the latter, especially after more than a decade of contact with our forum conservatives in this thread. It might also be a combination of the two, where some people really always believe the truth of the day, while others just lie all day long. What doesn't exist is an explanation where US conservatives have any leg to stand on. What this also means is that the Democrats and their supporters are the right-wing/conservative edge of sanity, with members like Fetterman clearly going over the edge. I have a feeling that one day, GH is going to be somewhere at a protest and an ICE agent might literally put his boot on his face an GH will be yelling at him to explain that the reason why Trump and Miller empowered people like him to abuse him is actually the democrats not stopping them when they could. Jesus man, you have a worse case of Democrat derangement syndrome then any republican I've seen, and that includes the regulars here who start every long winded post explaining how fascists were in the right for killing people resisting them because those people were manipulated by democrats... No one here needs to be/can be convinced that Republicans are fascists and obviously opposed to their goals. Despite that, it is predominantly what you all post about when you're not bickering with people you all have known for years are just trolling you to waste your time and laugh. So much so, even Zero was asking for better from yall and was promptly (and sadly imo) ignored. Contrary to that, people are still struggling with recognizing/understanding how/why Democrats are purportedly for the same things they ostensibly are, but are actually an oppositional force to what posters here would say are their desired policies. Rather than navigating and illuminating that reality, everyone focuses on how much they don't like that I point it out and they dislike/belittle me as a person for it. It's honestly a pretty lucid picture of what the actual struggle in the US is (and has been for decades, if not it's whole existence) really about. US Bipartisan Core Identity* (arguably applies here as well): There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect It's right there in the founding documents and has been in practice ever since. Trump/Fascism and Democrats being the far-right conservative edge of sanity is a symptom/consequence, not a root cause of this. Why don't you leave USA GH? + Show Spoiler +I once asked you which country would you say has a choice that is not "the lesser evil", you never answered.
Why don't you pick the best approximation and pack your bags and move?
If I hated my own country and country men (and you apparently hate all republicans and 99 % of the left side of the spectrum as well) I'd be out at the first possible sign.
I can tell you right now that even if the tide of fascism is turned back, Americans won't replace it with equitable socialism, at best it's going to be some sort of Obama like politics.
In fact, if your fantasy comes true, and USA gets a Amerimaidan, there is 99.99 % chance that the people who come on top of that will absolutely be much closer to current Democrats (assuming it's not them) then to some sort of a real leftist. There is no real leftism in USA, I'm sure that even Bernie and AOC don't pass your purity test, so on what do you actually base your hope that revolution will bring a trully leftist America? For better or worse, it's the only home I know. I also don't believe there's any safe place to hide, particularly if the people that oppose the fascist takeover of the US all leave. I also feel a responsibility to the generations of people before that fought and died genuinely believing in the most optimistic parts of the American experiment. I'd also struggle to find joy/peace/freedom in a life I know is only possible because I'm deliberately abandoning/exploiting the most vulnerable people I know when I'm still capable of standing with them against this wave of fascism. I've mentioned before, I don't want to go unless the so-called "dregs" of society can come with me as refugees as well. Ultimately, I want to journey through peace and enjoy the gift that is life and want everyone else to be able to do the same while expanding our critical consciousness to dimensions unimaginable under current circumstances. Not in a "hippy-dippy utopian" way, but in a very practical and scientific way. I don't think (or really care or believe it matters either way) that makes me morally better than you all or whatever you all are constantly accusing me of. I just (you can say "selfishly" if you want) believe the anti-thesis to what Light and Kwark mentioned before conservatism: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect which is: Anti-conservatism: the law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone Or as the variations among socialists go, something like: "No one is free until everyone is free" I base my hope in a socialist revolution, in part, on its inescapably necessity to all of our freedom. That's regardless of how unlikely anyone imagines that revolution being. Out of curiosity, do you do anything for all your great ideas to come true but writing on teamliquid? Yes. Since well before I was a socialist and was working toward advancing/electing Democrats like Obama. I did a lot of organizing and groundwork for Bernie Sanders too. Since I've been a socialist, I've engaged in more direct actions and community engagement. I generally try to keep a sort of rhythm of study, praxis, review/discuss with comrades, repeat. I have local comrades I do this with. I have online/national comrades I do this with. I believe we would all benefit from doing this here (or in my blog/in your own localities) as well. That said, I haven't even really pressed the revolution stuff here since the election (not that I've shied away from supporting it). I've been pointing out the necessity of fleshing out the alternatives that are supposed to be preferable. People realizing that amounts to Kwark's ghost hunting in GTA or whatever and generalized shrugs/"vote blue no matter who!" otherwise, makes people upset. Since I'm the one bringing this to people's attention, they misplace blame for their anxiety and their righteous rage on me. This regularly leads to them to lashing out emotionally and attacking me personally. While I can empathize, I don't find it particularly conducive to productive discussion.
This reads like what people write when they were working from home and don't have anything to show for it. If you want people to believe you, you can't just use general terms, even fancy ones like praxis, you need some specifics. Like if I heard this answer in a job interview I would 100% not hire.
What you can do is talk about something specific you studied, how you thoughtfully implemented it, what worked and didn't and then what you talked about with your comrades and what you were going to do next time. The specifics are much more difficult to BS than the sort of nebulous obfuscation you posted. Someone can certainly lie about that as well, but especially in person you can usually pick up on that with some follow up questions.
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United States43536 Posts
Actions are really easy. For example you can volunteer to do leafleting door to door for Republicans, get hundreds of dollars of materials, and then toss them in the recycling.
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EPT
