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On July 17 2018 05:50 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2018 05:44 Nouar wrote:On July 17 2018 03:54 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 03:43 Mohdoo wrote:On July 17 2018 03:31 GreenHorizons wrote:
People don't actually want Trump to do anything differently when it comes to Russia, they just want him to talk differently right?
Besides how he talks about Russia people saying he's too pro-Russia, or a pawn or whatever, wouldn't really change anything else would they?
Additionally, The NYT and a LOT of liberals are exposing a latent homophobia with shit like this.
Trump should be siding with his intelligence agencies and taking actions based on the intelligence agencies (sanctions) rather than trusting Putin. Inaction is still action. Forgive me, but why should Trump publicly build up his intelligence agencies rather than equivocate on them? These are the same intelligence agencies that tried to infiltrate his campaign and bait him into committing a crime. These are the same intelligence agencies who have been leaking shit to undermine his presidency at every turn. These are the same intelligence agencies that had people like Brennan heading them, who today, has ludicrously accused the president of treason for what he said at the press conference. There's no political reason for Trump to give them cover until he gets them under control. Hello ? Separation of powers, democracy ? Arguing that they were or are corrupt may be valid, but wanting them to be under the control of the executive power, please do not. Seriously. Especially under this president that is talking about nukes like I talk about my breakfast. We have been at peace (mostly, at least in our western areas) for 70 years, and you want the balance of power of the strongest country in the world to fail ? Separation of powers is not a license to commit treason or other criminal acts. If the actions that the FBI and intelligence community have taken against Trump and his campaign are without legitimate predicate (which is not only the default presumption, but also appears to be the case in fact so far), then those organizations need to be thoroughly cleaned out.
And at what point would you be able to admit that the current investigation is justified ? There have already been more than 20 indictments of russian nationals, so if anything, it has at least brought some answers. What would be your belief if it happens that the investigation did not start with legitimacy, but end up bringing consistent proof ? Are you going to deny these proofs are valid because the trigger of the investigation was unjustified and put a cloth upon your eyes ? Will you be able to even trust the results of the investigation ? Of any ?
Do you believe breaking the principles of a democracy and turning to concentration of powers to protect ONE guy is justified ? Even if it is the president himself ?
Cleaned out != taking control.
What are your red lines to protect your country ? Seeing what happened today, which felt unbelievable to the whole world... Is it still not enough ? Or did this one guy suddenly shift the balance and have half the population starting a personality cult instead of behaving like a people...
I'm so waiting 20-30years if we still have a world, to get to the bottom of what happened these past few years.
On July 17 2018 06:36 TheLordofAwesome wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2018 06:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 06:26 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 17 2018 06:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 06:06 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 17 2018 05:52 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 05:48 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 17 2018 05:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 05:29 Plansix wrote:On July 17 2018 05:27 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
lol I'm not against a trial, though I am personally against the death penalty.
What about Trump getting off consequence free would be better than him being executed though? Are you saying with or without a trial? With, but without presumes that people genuinely think all this blathering about Trump-Russia is actually about nothing deserving a more severe penalty than gets handed out for stealing formula from Walmart for anyone involved. Espionage, money laundering, etc., are generally considered more severe crimes with stiffer penalties than petty theft. So far we've had dozens of Russians indicted and the indictments have contained very specific allegations, right down to the unit numbers of the GRU hackers. Now we are seeing another Russian charged today. We've seen four Americans plead guilty to curiously soft charges (HINT: It means they've flipped and are cooperating with prosecutors to nail a bigger target to save their own skins.). If you think Trump and everyone surrounding him aren't going to be charged by Mueller, then you are a colossal idiot. I would say the same to anyone who thinks some cronies being charged = Trump being held accountable. Or that all this Trump-Russia and "treason" stuff is about some money laundering or some Russian intelligence people. Or that they'll face penalties stiffer than poor folks see for stealing food to feed babies. EDIT: Charges aren't convictions and sentences btw GH: "I would say [you are a colossal idiot] to anyone who thinks... that all this Trump-Russia and 'treason' stuff is about some money laundering or some Russian intelligence people." WTF? What do you THINK this investigation is about, if not money laundering and shady Russian spies? I think you missed the point of that. The people saying Trump is treasonous aren't saying it because some Russians spies did Russian spy things or corrupt millionaires laundering money or not properly disclosing international relationships. So, then, why are they saying his behavior has been treasonous, in the layman's sense of the word. On July 17 2018 06:08 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 05:59 Plansix wrote:On July 17 2018 05:50 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 05:44 Nouar wrote:On July 17 2018 03:54 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 03:43 Mohdoo wrote:
[quote]
Trump should be siding with his intelligence agencies and taking actions based on the intelligence agencies (sanctions) rather than trusting Putin. Inaction is still action. Forgive me, but why should Trump publicly build up his intelligence agencies rather than equivocate on them? These are the same intelligence agencies that tried to infiltrate his campaign and bait him into committing a crime. These are the same intelligence agencies who have been leaking shit to undermine his presidency at every turn. These are the same intelligence agencies that had people like Brennan heading them, who today, has ludicrously accused the president of treason for what he said at the press conference. There's no political reason for Trump to give them cover until he gets them under control. Hello ? Separation of powers, democracy ? Arguing that they were or are corrupt may be valid, but wanting them to be under the control of the executive power, please do not. Seriously. Especially under this president that is talking about nukes like I talk about my breakfast. We have been at peace (mostly, at least in our western areas) for 70 years, and you want the balance of power of the strongest country in the world to fail ? Separation of powers is not a license to commit treason or other criminal acts. If the actions that the FBI and intelligence community have taken against Trump and his campaign are without legitimate predicate (which is not only the default presumption, but also appears to be the case in fact so far), then those organizations need to be thoroughly cleaned out. I'm not seeing a lot of evidence to back up these claims you keep making. But I am looking at Paul Manfort's trial for July 25, 2018 and a whole bunch of guilty pleas from people who worked on Trump's team. The investigation has showing there is a lot of fire behind that smoke, including the meeting between Russian operatives and Trump Jr. @TheLordofAwesome: thank you - I was going to do the whole treason thing, but I didn't want to get into it again. People love to throw that word around. You do realize that Mueller already told the Court that there won't be any evidence of, or argument regarding, Trump campaign/Russia collusion, right? That trial will be strictly about pre-campaign stuff. Pretty safe to say they missed that. Manafort's July trial is solely about his various financial crimes. Manafort's charges were among the first unveiled by Mueller. Flynn, Papadopolous, and Pinedo didn't even get formally charged, they went straight to a plea deal. I believe Gates was formally charged but then flipped on Manafort. Anyways, the point is that Manafort's charges were all financial crimes that were announced over half a year ago but the case is only now coming to trial because the legal system takes time. Trump is "in the pocket", "a puppet", "possibly being blackmailed", "colluded", "stole the election with the Russians", and so on... Surely you're familiar. I'm not asking for examples of rhetoric. I'm asking, what exactly is the investigation of Team Trump about, if it's not money laundering, related financial crimes, and very weird and shady interactions with Russian spies? Because you claim only a colossal idiot would think that those 3 things are the basis of the probe.... Show nested quote +The people saying Trump is treasonous aren't saying it because some Russians spies did Russian spy things or corrupt millionaires laundering money or not properly disclosing international relationships. So what then, precisely, is Trump and Co. being investigated for?
Personally I don't even care if he is investigated, it is the overall behaviour shown, of kissing autocracies, openly showing and saying he likes autocrats and "strong leaders", notorious for reducing free speech, which is so important in the US constitution, while undermining everything the US has build over 70 years to be the world leader, all the alliances and treaties, and everything. Showing the US cannot be trusted, that the US word holds no strength, no truth, and cannot be relied upon.
Seeing a president willing to forget crimes just because they so happened to benefit himself, and people are buying it.
The investigation ? Yeah, ok, let's see what comes out. But, the rest would be 10x enough to make me lose all confidence in my leader if I was american.
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On July 17 2018 06:29 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2018 04:57 ShoCkeyy wrote:http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/397245-mccain-trump-performance-disgracefulhttps://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/16/john-mccain-says-trump-abased-himself-before-putin-at-summit.html"RINO"s are coming out to play.. McCain still using his seat to throw fire under Trump. It's pretty obvioust that McCain is teetering a fine line when it comes to his party, and his actual thoughts of the current party. "Today’s press conference in Helsinki was one of the most disgraceful performances by an American president in memory. The damage inflicted by President Trump’s naiveté, egotism, false equivalence, and sympathy for autocrats is difficult to calculate. But it is clear that the summit in Helsinki was a tragic mistake.
President Trump proved not only unable, but unwilling to stand up to Putin. He and Putin seemed to be speaking from the same script as the president made a conscious choice to defend a tyrant against the fair questions of a free press, and to grant Putin an uncontested platform to spew propaganda and lies to the world.
It is tempting to describe the press conference as a pathetic rout – as an illustration of the perils of under-preparation and inexperience. But these were not the errant tweets of a novice politician. These were the deliberate choices of a president who seems determined to realize his delusions of a warm relationship with Putin’s regime without any regard for the true nature of his rule, his violent disregard for the sovereignty of his neighbors, his complicity in the slaughter of the Syrian people, his violation of international treaties, and his assault on democratic institutions throughout the world.
Coming close on the heels of President Trump’s bombastic and erratic conduct towards our closest friends and allies in Brussels and Britain, today’s press conference marks a recent low point in the history of the American Presidency. That the president was attended in Helsinki by a team of competent and patriotic advisors makes his blunders and capitulations all the more painful and inexplicable.
No prior president has ever abased himself more abjectly before a tyrant. Not only did President Trump fail to speak the truth about an adversary; but speaking for America to the world, our president failed to defend all that makes us who we are—a republic of free people dedicated to the cause of liberty at home and abroad. American presidents must be the champions of that cause if it is to succeed. Americans are waiting and hoping for President Trump to embrace that sacred responsibility. One can only hope they are not waiting totally in vain.” Following up on my last post, now Ryan is seeming to "grow a backbone"?... https://www.speaker.gov/press-release/statement-russiaShow nested quote +WASHINGTON—House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-WI) today issued the following statement:
"There is no question that Russia interfered in our election and continues attempts to undermine democracy here and around the world. That is not just the finding of the American intelligence community but also the House Committee on Intelligence. The president must appreciate that Russia is not our ally. There is no moral equivalence between the United States and Russia, which remains hostile to our most basic values and ideals. The United States must be focused on holding Russia accountable and putting an end to its vile attacks on democracy."
I think Ryan might have actually said those exact words before. He doesn't ever do anything about it.
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On July 17 2018 06:15 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2018 06:13 Plansix wrote:On July 17 2018 06:08 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 05:59 Plansix wrote:On July 17 2018 05:50 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 05:44 Nouar wrote:On July 17 2018 03:54 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 03:43 Mohdoo wrote:On July 17 2018 03:31 GreenHorizons wrote:People don't actually want Trump to do anything differently when it comes to Russia, they just want him to talk differently right? Besides how he talks about Russia people saying he's too pro-Russia, or a pawn or whatever, wouldn't really change anything else would they? Additionally, The NYT and a LOT of liberals are exposing a latent homophobia with shit like this. https://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/1018770963813490688 Trump should be siding with his intelligence agencies and taking actions based on the intelligence agencies (sanctions) rather than trusting Putin. Inaction is still action. Forgive me, but why should Trump publicly build up his intelligence agencies rather than equivocate on them? These are the same intelligence agencies that tried to infiltrate his campaign and bait him into committing a crime. These are the same intelligence agencies who have been leaking shit to undermine his presidency at every turn. These are the same intelligence agencies that had people like Brennan heading them, who today, has ludicrously accused the president of treason for what he said at the press conference. There's no political reason for Trump to give them cover until he gets them under control. Hello ? Separation of powers, democracy ? Arguing that they were or are corrupt may be valid, but wanting them to be under the control of the executive power, please do not. Seriously. Especially under this president that is talking about nukes like I talk about my breakfast. We have been at peace (mostly, at least in our western areas) for 70 years, and you want the balance of power of the strongest country in the world to fail ? Separation of powers is not a license to commit treason or other criminal acts. If the actions that the FBI and intelligence community have taken against Trump and his campaign are without legitimate predicate (which is not only the default presumption, but also appears to be the case in fact so far), then those organizations need to be thoroughly cleaned out. I'm not seeing a lot of evidence to back up these claims you keep making. But I am looking at Paul Manfort's trial for July 25, 2018 and a whole bunch of guilty pleas from people who worked on Trump's team. The investigation has showing there is a lot of fire behind that smoke, including the meeting between Russian operatives and Trump Jr. @TheLordofAwesome: thank you - I was going to do the whole treason thing, but I didn't want to get into it again. People love to throw that word around. You do realize that Mueller already told the Court that there won't be any evidence of, or argument regarding, Trump campaign/Russia collusion, right? That trial will be strictly about pre-campaign stuff. Collusion isn't a crime. Receiving material support from a foreign goverment in an election is a crime. I am not aware of him saying that Trump will never be involved, only that the current charges don't relate to them at this time. And the investigation is into Russia meddling in the US election, which happened to run into the Trump camp. It could rope in some Democrats too. The sky is the limit with this. The part that you continue to dance around is that this investigation would still take place even if Trump’s folks were not involved. Uh, there will be no evidence of anything related to the campaign. None of the charges have to do with the campaign. Even if Mueller had evidence related to campaign, it wouldn't come in under evidentiary rules because it simply isn't relevant to the charges that will be subject of the trial. EDIT: Nevermind, you're talking about the ongoing investigation. Well, good luck.
Yes. The ongoing investigation. With something of this scope, you don't start with the show stopper. They line up key witnesses, they lay the foundation and break out the charges on the worst of the bad actors. As LordofAwesome pointed out, 40 people went to jail over Watergate.
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how long does it take for poll numbers to change again? (i.e. the lag due to the time it takes to collect polls and report results) a week or so?
what do people think trump's poll numbers will be then? (for approval rating).
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On July 17 2018 06:44 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2018 06:15 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 06:13 Plansix wrote:On July 17 2018 06:08 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 05:59 Plansix wrote:On July 17 2018 05:50 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 05:44 Nouar wrote:On July 17 2018 03:54 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 03:43 Mohdoo wrote:On July 17 2018 03:31 GreenHorizons wrote:People don't actually want Trump to do anything differently when it comes to Russia, they just want him to talk differently right? Besides how he talks about Russia people saying he's too pro-Russia, or a pawn or whatever, wouldn't really change anything else would they? Additionally, The NYT and a LOT of liberals are exposing a latent homophobia with shit like this. https://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/1018770963813490688 Trump should be siding with his intelligence agencies and taking actions based on the intelligence agencies (sanctions) rather than trusting Putin. Inaction is still action. Forgive me, but why should Trump publicly build up his intelligence agencies rather than equivocate on them? These are the same intelligence agencies that tried to infiltrate his campaign and bait him into committing a crime. These are the same intelligence agencies who have been leaking shit to undermine his presidency at every turn. These are the same intelligence agencies that had people like Brennan heading them, who today, has ludicrously accused the president of treason for what he said at the press conference. There's no political reason for Trump to give them cover until he gets them under control. Hello ? Separation of powers, democracy ? Arguing that they were or are corrupt may be valid, but wanting them to be under the control of the executive power, please do not. Seriously. Especially under this president that is talking about nukes like I talk about my breakfast. We have been at peace (mostly, at least in our western areas) for 70 years, and you want the balance of power of the strongest country in the world to fail ? Separation of powers is not a license to commit treason or other criminal acts. If the actions that the FBI and intelligence community have taken against Trump and his campaign are without legitimate predicate (which is not only the default presumption, but also appears to be the case in fact so far), then those organizations need to be thoroughly cleaned out. I'm not seeing a lot of evidence to back up these claims you keep making. But I am looking at Paul Manfort's trial for July 25, 2018 and a whole bunch of guilty pleas from people who worked on Trump's team. The investigation has showing there is a lot of fire behind that smoke, including the meeting between Russian operatives and Trump Jr. @TheLordofAwesome: thank you - I was going to do the whole treason thing, but I didn't want to get into it again. People love to throw that word around. You do realize that Mueller already told the Court that there won't be any evidence of, or argument regarding, Trump campaign/Russia collusion, right? That trial will be strictly about pre-campaign stuff. Collusion isn't a crime. Receiving material support from a foreign goverment in an election is a crime. I am not aware of him saying that Trump will never be involved, only that the current charges don't relate to them at this time. And the investigation is into Russia meddling in the US election, which happened to run into the Trump camp. It could rope in some Democrats too. The sky is the limit with this. The part that you continue to dance around is that this investigation would still take place even if Trump’s folks were not involved. Uh, there will be no evidence of anything related to the campaign. None of the charges have to do with the campaign. Even if Mueller had evidence related to campaign, it wouldn't come in under evidentiary rules because it simply isn't relevant to the charges that will be subject of the trial. EDIT: Nevermind, you're talking about the ongoing investigation. Well, good luck. Yes. The ongoing investigation. With something of this scope, you don't start with the show stopper. They line up key witnesses, they lay the foundation and break out the charges on the worst of the bad actors. As LordofAwesome pointed out, 40 people went to jail over Watergate.
What will likely happen or has happened already is that evidence of conspiracy to defraud the U.S. will be or has been uncovered in the course of this investigation. It probably started with Russian interference > oh hey lots of weird money shit > oh hey this money came from Russia > oh hey full circle back to interference and "collusion". Fuck I hate that word, but it's what people know.
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So long as Cletus identifies with Trump, Cletus will vote for Trump. Just kinda the way it goes, unfortunately. Cletus believes he is defending the country from something much worse than Trump: healthcare.
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On July 17 2018 06:38 Nouar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2018 05:50 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 05:44 Nouar wrote:On July 17 2018 03:54 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 03:43 Mohdoo wrote:On July 17 2018 03:31 GreenHorizons wrote:People don't actually want Trump to do anything differently when it comes to Russia, they just want him to talk differently right? Besides how he talks about Russia people saying he's too pro-Russia, or a pawn or whatever, wouldn't really change anything else would they? Additionally, The NYT and a LOT of liberals are exposing a latent homophobia with shit like this. https://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/1018770963813490688 Trump should be siding with his intelligence agencies and taking actions based on the intelligence agencies (sanctions) rather than trusting Putin. Inaction is still action. Forgive me, but why should Trump publicly build up his intelligence agencies rather than equivocate on them? These are the same intelligence agencies that tried to infiltrate his campaign and bait him into committing a crime. These are the same intelligence agencies who have been leaking shit to undermine his presidency at every turn. These are the same intelligence agencies that had people like Brennan heading them, who today, has ludicrously accused the president of treason for what he said at the press conference. There's no political reason for Trump to give them cover until he gets them under control. Hello ? Separation of powers, democracy ? Arguing that they were or are corrupt may be valid, but wanting them to be under the control of the executive power, please do not. Seriously. Especially under this president that is talking about nukes like I talk about my breakfast. We have been at peace (mostly, at least in our western areas) for 70 years, and you want the balance of power of the strongest country in the world to fail ? Separation of powers is not a license to commit treason or other criminal acts. If the actions that the FBI and intelligence community have taken against Trump and his campaign are without legitimate predicate (which is not only the default presumption, but also appears to be the case in fact so far), then those organizations need to be thoroughly cleaned out. And at what point would you be able to admit that the current investigation is justified ? There have already been more than 20 indictments of russian nationals, so if anything, it has at least brought some answers. What would be your belief if it happens that the investigation did not start with legitimacy, but end up bringing consistent proof ? Are you going to deny these proofs are valid because the trigger of the investigation was unjustified and put a cloth upon your eyes ? Will you be able to even trust the results of the investigation ? Of any ? Do you believe breaking the principles of a democracy and turning to concentration of powers to protect ONE guy is justified ? Even if it is the president himself ? Cleaned out != taking control. What are your red lines to protect your country ? Seeing what happened today, which felt unbelievable to the whole world... Is it still not enough ? Or did this one guy suddenly shift the balance and have half the population starting a personality cult instead of behaving like a people... I'm so waiting 20-30years if we still have a world, to get to the bottom of what happened these past few years.
The current investigation -- as in the appointment of the Mueller investigation -- will not be justified until evidence surfaces linking Trump and/or his campaign to Russian interference in the election. What has been prosecuted so far does not warrant Mueller's appointment. All of that can be handled by the DoJ proper. The cost and the damage that has been to the country by Mueller's appointment has been extraordinary. If Russia wanted to sow discord in the US, they couldn't have hoped for a better result.
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It's pretty impressive to manage to look this clearly guilty and this clearly clueless at the same time.
I guess our world doesn't deserve evil masterminds anymore.
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That's the NYT opinions section, not a headline.
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On July 17 2018 07:04 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2018 06:38 Nouar wrote:On July 17 2018 05:50 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 05:44 Nouar wrote:On July 17 2018 03:54 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 03:43 Mohdoo wrote:On July 17 2018 03:31 GreenHorizons wrote:People don't actually want Trump to do anything differently when it comes to Russia, they just want him to talk differently right? Besides how he talks about Russia people saying he's too pro-Russia, or a pawn or whatever, wouldn't really change anything else would they? Additionally, The NYT and a LOT of liberals are exposing a latent homophobia with shit like this. https://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/1018770963813490688 Trump should be siding with his intelligence agencies and taking actions based on the intelligence agencies (sanctions) rather than trusting Putin. Inaction is still action. Forgive me, but why should Trump publicly build up his intelligence agencies rather than equivocate on them? These are the same intelligence agencies that tried to infiltrate his campaign and bait him into committing a crime. These are the same intelligence agencies who have been leaking shit to undermine his presidency at every turn. These are the same intelligence agencies that had people like Brennan heading them, who today, has ludicrously accused the president of treason for what he said at the press conference. There's no political reason for Trump to give them cover until he gets them under control. Hello ? Separation of powers, democracy ? Arguing that they were or are corrupt may be valid, but wanting them to be under the control of the executive power, please do not. Seriously. Especially under this president that is talking about nukes like I talk about my breakfast. We have been at peace (mostly, at least in our western areas) for 70 years, and you want the balance of power of the strongest country in the world to fail ? Separation of powers is not a license to commit treason or other criminal acts. If the actions that the FBI and intelligence community have taken against Trump and his campaign are without legitimate predicate (which is not only the default presumption, but also appears to be the case in fact so far), then those organizations need to be thoroughly cleaned out. And at what point would you be able to admit that the current investigation is justified ? There have already been more than 20 indictments of russian nationals, so if anything, it has at least brought some answers. What would be your belief if it happens that the investigation did not start with legitimacy, but end up bringing consistent proof ? Are you going to deny these proofs are valid because the trigger of the investigation was unjustified and put a cloth upon your eyes ? Will you be able to even trust the results of the investigation ? Of any ? Do you believe breaking the principles of a democracy and turning to concentration of powers to protect ONE guy is justified ? Even if it is the president himself ? Cleaned out != taking control. What are your red lines to protect your country ? Seeing what happened today, which felt unbelievable to the whole world... Is it still not enough ? Or did this one guy suddenly shift the balance and have half the population starting a personality cult instead of behaving like a people... I'm so waiting 20-30years if we still have a world, to get to the bottom of what happened these past few years. The current investigation -- as in the appointment of the Mueller investigation -- will not be justified until evidence surfaces linking Trump and/or his campaign to Russian interference in the election. What has been prosecuted so far does not warrant Mueller's appointment. All of that can be handled by the DoJ proper. The cost and the damage that has been to the country by Mueller's appointment has been extraordinary. If Russia wanted to sow discord in the US, they couldn't have hoped for a better result.
You mean the investigation that the FBI was doing until Comey was fired, which warranted it? lol
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On July 17 2018 06:36 TheLordofAwesome wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2018 06:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 06:26 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 17 2018 06:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 06:06 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 17 2018 05:52 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 05:48 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 17 2018 05:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 05:29 Plansix wrote:On July 17 2018 05:27 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
lol I'm not against a trial, though I am personally against the death penalty.
What about Trump getting off consequence free would be better than him being executed though? Are you saying with or without a trial? With, but without presumes that people genuinely think all this blathering about Trump-Russia is actually about nothing deserving a more severe penalty than gets handed out for stealing formula from Walmart for anyone involved. Espionage, money laundering, etc., are generally considered more severe crimes with stiffer penalties than petty theft. So far we've had dozens of Russians indicted and the indictments have contained very specific allegations, right down to the unit numbers of the GRU hackers. Now we are seeing another Russian charged today. We've seen four Americans plead guilty to curiously soft charges (HINT: It means they've flipped and are cooperating with prosecutors to nail a bigger target to save their own skins.). If you think Trump and everyone surrounding him aren't going to be charged by Mueller, then you are a colossal idiot. I would say the same to anyone who thinks some cronies being charged = Trump being held accountable. Or that all this Trump-Russia and "treason" stuff is about some money laundering or some Russian intelligence people. Or that they'll face penalties stiffer than poor folks see for stealing food to feed babies. EDIT: Charges aren't convictions and sentences btw GH: "I would say [you are a colossal idiot] to anyone who thinks... that all this Trump-Russia and 'treason' stuff is about some money laundering or some Russian intelligence people." WTF? What do you THINK this investigation is about, if not money laundering and shady Russian spies? I think you missed the point of that. The people saying Trump is treasonous aren't saying it because some Russians spies did Russian spy things or corrupt millionaires laundering money or not properly disclosing international relationships. So, then, why are they saying his behavior has been treasonous, in the layman's sense of the word. On July 17 2018 06:08 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 05:59 Plansix wrote:On July 17 2018 05:50 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 05:44 Nouar wrote:On July 17 2018 03:54 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 03:43 Mohdoo wrote:
[quote]
Trump should be siding with his intelligence agencies and taking actions based on the intelligence agencies (sanctions) rather than trusting Putin. Inaction is still action. Forgive me, but why should Trump publicly build up his intelligence agencies rather than equivocate on them? These are the same intelligence agencies that tried to infiltrate his campaign and bait him into committing a crime. These are the same intelligence agencies who have been leaking shit to undermine his presidency at every turn. These are the same intelligence agencies that had people like Brennan heading them, who today, has ludicrously accused the president of treason for what he said at the press conference. There's no political reason for Trump to give them cover until he gets them under control. Hello ? Separation of powers, democracy ? Arguing that they were or are corrupt may be valid, but wanting them to be under the control of the executive power, please do not. Seriously. Especially under this president that is talking about nukes like I talk about my breakfast. We have been at peace (mostly, at least in our western areas) for 70 years, and you want the balance of power of the strongest country in the world to fail ? Separation of powers is not a license to commit treason or other criminal acts. If the actions that the FBI and intelligence community have taken against Trump and his campaign are without legitimate predicate (which is not only the default presumption, but also appears to be the case in fact so far), then those organizations need to be thoroughly cleaned out. I'm not seeing a lot of evidence to back up these claims you keep making. But I am looking at Paul Manfort's trial for July 25, 2018 and a whole bunch of guilty pleas from people who worked on Trump's team. The investigation has showing there is a lot of fire behind that smoke, including the meeting between Russian operatives and Trump Jr. @TheLordofAwesome: thank you - I was going to do the whole treason thing, but I didn't want to get into it again. People love to throw that word around. You do realize that Mueller already told the Court that there won't be any evidence of, or argument regarding, Trump campaign/Russia collusion, right? That trial will be strictly about pre-campaign stuff. Pretty safe to say they missed that. Manafort's July trial is solely about his various financial crimes. Manafort's charges were among the first unveiled by Mueller. Flynn, Papadopolous, and Pinedo didn't even get formally charged, they went straight to a plea deal. I believe Gates was formally charged but then flipped on Manafort. Anyways, the point is that Manafort's charges were all financial crimes that were announced over half a year ago but the case is only now coming to trial because the legal system takes time. Trump is "in the pocket", "a puppet", "possibly being blackmailed", "colluded", "stole the election with the Russians", and so on... Surely you're familiar. I'm not asking for examples of rhetoric. I'm asking, what exactly is the investigation of Team Trump about, if it's not money laundering, related financial crimes, and very weird and shady interactions with Russian spies? Because you claim only a colossal idiot would think that those 3 things are the basis of the probe.... Show nested quote +The people saying Trump is treasonous aren't saying it because some Russians spies did Russian spy things or corrupt millionaires laundering money or not properly disclosing international relationships. So what then, precisely, is Trump and Co. being investigated for?
They are being investigated for a wide range of things (what aren't they being investigated for?) as evidenced by the only trial being one completely unrelated to the campaign or collusion.
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I like the idea that even allowing an investigation to exist is somehow damaging to what America is as a country. Better to slap a fresh coat of paint over the rot and just let it slowly destroy the ship than to acknowledge it, eh?
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On July 17 2018 07:21 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2018 06:36 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 17 2018 06:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 06:26 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 17 2018 06:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 06:06 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 17 2018 05:52 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 05:48 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 17 2018 05:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 05:29 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Are you saying with or without a trial? With, but without presumes that people genuinely think all this blathering about Trump-Russia is actually about nothing deserving a more severe penalty than gets handed out for stealing formula from Walmart for anyone involved. Espionage, money laundering, etc., are generally considered more severe crimes with stiffer penalties than petty theft. So far we've had dozens of Russians indicted and the indictments have contained very specific allegations, right down to the unit numbers of the GRU hackers. Now we are seeing another Russian charged today. We've seen four Americans plead guilty to curiously soft charges (HINT: It means they've flipped and are cooperating with prosecutors to nail a bigger target to save their own skins.). If you think Trump and everyone surrounding him aren't going to be charged by Mueller, then you are a colossal idiot. I would say the same to anyone who thinks some cronies being charged = Trump being held accountable. Or that all this Trump-Russia and "treason" stuff is about some money laundering or some Russian intelligence people. Or that they'll face penalties stiffer than poor folks see for stealing food to feed babies. EDIT: Charges aren't convictions and sentences btw GH: "I would say [you are a colossal idiot] to anyone who thinks... that all this Trump-Russia and 'treason' stuff is about some money laundering or some Russian intelligence people." WTF? What do you THINK this investigation is about, if not money laundering and shady Russian spies? I think you missed the point of that. The people saying Trump is treasonous aren't saying it because some Russians spies did Russian spy things or corrupt millionaires laundering money or not properly disclosing international relationships. So, then, why are they saying his behavior has been treasonous, in the layman's sense of the word. On July 17 2018 06:08 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 05:59 Plansix wrote:On July 17 2018 05:50 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 05:44 Nouar wrote:On July 17 2018 03:54 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
Forgive me, but why should Trump publicly build up his intelligence agencies rather than equivocate on them? These are the same intelligence agencies that tried to infiltrate his campaign and bait him into committing a crime. These are the same intelligence agencies who have been leaking shit to undermine his presidency at every turn. These are the same intelligence agencies that had people like Brennan heading them, who today, has ludicrously accused the president of treason for what he said at the press conference. There's no political reason for Trump to give them cover until he gets them under control. Hello ? Separation of powers, democracy ? Arguing that they were or are corrupt may be valid, but wanting them to be under the control of the executive power, please do not. Seriously. Especially under this president that is talking about nukes like I talk about my breakfast. We have been at peace (mostly, at least in our western areas) for 70 years, and you want the balance of power of the strongest country in the world to fail ? Separation of powers is not a license to commit treason or other criminal acts. If the actions that the FBI and intelligence community have taken against Trump and his campaign are without legitimate predicate (which is not only the default presumption, but also appears to be the case in fact so far), then those organizations need to be thoroughly cleaned out. I'm not seeing a lot of evidence to back up these claims you keep making. But I am looking at Paul Manfort's trial for July 25, 2018 and a whole bunch of guilty pleas from people who worked on Trump's team. The investigation has showing there is a lot of fire behind that smoke, including the meeting between Russian operatives and Trump Jr. @TheLordofAwesome: thank you - I was going to do the whole treason thing, but I didn't want to get into it again. People love to throw that word around. You do realize that Mueller already told the Court that there won't be any evidence of, or argument regarding, Trump campaign/Russia collusion, right? That trial will be strictly about pre-campaign stuff. Pretty safe to say they missed that. Manafort's July trial is solely about his various financial crimes. Manafort's charges were among the first unveiled by Mueller. Flynn, Papadopolous, and Pinedo didn't even get formally charged, they went straight to a plea deal. I believe Gates was formally charged but then flipped on Manafort. Anyways, the point is that Manafort's charges were all financial crimes that were announced over half a year ago but the case is only now coming to trial because the legal system takes time. Trump is "in the pocket", "a puppet", "possibly being blackmailed", "colluded", "stole the election with the Russians", and so on... Surely you're familiar. I'm not asking for examples of rhetoric. I'm asking, what exactly is the investigation of Team Trump about, if it's not money laundering, related financial crimes, and very weird and shady interactions with Russian spies? Because you claim only a colossal idiot would think that those 3 things are the basis of the probe.... The people saying Trump is treasonous aren't saying it because some Russians spies did Russian spy things or corrupt millionaires laundering money or not properly disclosing international relationships. So what then, precisely, is Trump and Co. being investigated for? They are being investigated for a wide range of things (what aren't they being investigated for?) as evidenced by the only trial being one completely unrelated to the campaign or collusion.
Even if they had emails of Trump saying to Putin "I will pay you if you give me Clinton's emails", we would still be exactly where we are. Cletus can't handle the idea of Trump being indicted. This was bound to be a long, drawn out investigation no matter what. You need to find a bunch of other illegal stuff to allow the investigation to continue. Big stuff comes last.
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On July 17 2018 07:24 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2018 07:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 06:36 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 17 2018 06:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 06:26 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 17 2018 06:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 06:06 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 17 2018 05:52 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 05:48 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 17 2018 05:34 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
With, but without presumes that people genuinely think all this blathering about Trump-Russia is actually about nothing deserving a more severe penalty than gets handed out for stealing formula from Walmart for anyone involved.
Espionage, money laundering, etc., are generally considered more severe crimes with stiffer penalties than petty theft. So far we've had dozens of Russians indicted and the indictments have contained very specific allegations, right down to the unit numbers of the GRU hackers. Now we are seeing another Russian charged today. We've seen four Americans plead guilty to curiously soft charges (HINT: It means they've flipped and are cooperating with prosecutors to nail a bigger target to save their own skins.). If you think Trump and everyone surrounding him aren't going to be charged by Mueller, then you are a colossal idiot. I would say the same to anyone who thinks some cronies being charged = Trump being held accountable. Or that all this Trump-Russia and "treason" stuff is about some money laundering or some Russian intelligence people. Or that they'll face penalties stiffer than poor folks see for stealing food to feed babies. EDIT: Charges aren't convictions and sentences btw GH: "I would say [you are a colossal idiot] to anyone who thinks... that all this Trump-Russia and 'treason' stuff is about some money laundering or some Russian intelligence people." WTF? What do you THINK this investigation is about, if not money laundering and shady Russian spies? I think you missed the point of that. The people saying Trump is treasonous aren't saying it because some Russians spies did Russian spy things or corrupt millionaires laundering money or not properly disclosing international relationships. So, then, why are they saying his behavior has been treasonous, in the layman's sense of the word. On July 17 2018 06:08 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 05:59 Plansix wrote:On July 17 2018 05:50 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 05:44 Nouar wrote:
[quote]
Hello ? Separation of powers, democracy ? Arguing that they were or are corrupt may be valid, but wanting them to be under the control of the executive power, please do not. Seriously. Especially under this president that is talking about nukes like I talk about my breakfast. We have been at peace (mostly, at least in our western areas) for 70 years, and you want the balance of power of the strongest country in the world to fail ? Separation of powers is not a license to commit treason or other criminal acts. If the actions that the FBI and intelligence community have taken against Trump and his campaign are without legitimate predicate (which is not only the default presumption, but also appears to be the case in fact so far), then those organizations need to be thoroughly cleaned out. I'm not seeing a lot of evidence to back up these claims you keep making. But I am looking at Paul Manfort's trial for July 25, 2018 and a whole bunch of guilty pleas from people who worked on Trump's team. The investigation has showing there is a lot of fire behind that smoke, including the meeting between Russian operatives and Trump Jr. @TheLordofAwesome: thank you - I was going to do the whole treason thing, but I didn't want to get into it again. People love to throw that word around. You do realize that Mueller already told the Court that there won't be any evidence of, or argument regarding, Trump campaign/Russia collusion, right? That trial will be strictly about pre-campaign stuff. Pretty safe to say they missed that. Manafort's July trial is solely about his various financial crimes. Manafort's charges were among the first unveiled by Mueller. Flynn, Papadopolous, and Pinedo didn't even get formally charged, they went straight to a plea deal. I believe Gates was formally charged but then flipped on Manafort. Anyways, the point is that Manafort's charges were all financial crimes that were announced over half a year ago but the case is only now coming to trial because the legal system takes time. Trump is "in the pocket", "a puppet", "possibly being blackmailed", "colluded", "stole the election with the Russians", and so on... Surely you're familiar. I'm not asking for examples of rhetoric. I'm asking, what exactly is the investigation of Team Trump about, if it's not money laundering, related financial crimes, and very weird and shady interactions with Russian spies? Because you claim only a colossal idiot would think that those 3 things are the basis of the probe.... The people saying Trump is treasonous aren't saying it because some Russians spies did Russian spy things or corrupt millionaires laundering money or not properly disclosing international relationships. So what then, precisely, is Trump and Co. being investigated for? They are being investigated for a wide range of things (what aren't they being investigated for?) as evidenced by the only trial being one completely unrelated to the campaign or collusion. Even if they had emails of Trump saying to Putin "I will pay you if you give me Clinton's emails", we would still be exactly where we are. Cletus can't handle the idea of Trump being indicted. This was bound to be a long, drawn out investigation no matter what. You need to find a bunch of other illegal stuff to allow the investigation to continue. Big stuff comes last.
Pretty sure we would have heard about something like that but maybe not. Don't really think that changes anything I'm saying though.
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On July 17 2018 07:35 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2018 07:24 Mohdoo wrote:On July 17 2018 07:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 06:36 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 17 2018 06:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 06:26 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 17 2018 06:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 06:06 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 17 2018 05:52 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 05:48 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
[quote]
Espionage, money laundering, etc., are generally considered more severe crimes with stiffer penalties than petty theft. So far we've had dozens of Russians indicted and the indictments have contained very specific allegations, right down to the unit numbers of the GRU hackers. Now we are seeing another Russian charged today. We've seen four Americans plead guilty to curiously soft charges (HINT: It means they've flipped and are cooperating with prosecutors to nail a bigger target to save their own skins.). If you think Trump and everyone surrounding him aren't going to be charged by Mueller, then you are a colossal idiot. I would say the same to anyone who thinks some cronies being charged = Trump being held accountable. Or that all this Trump-Russia and "treason" stuff is about some money laundering or some Russian intelligence people. Or that they'll face penalties stiffer than poor folks see for stealing food to feed babies. EDIT: Charges aren't convictions and sentences btw GH: "I would say [you are a colossal idiot] to anyone who thinks... that all this Trump-Russia and 'treason' stuff is about some money laundering or some Russian intelligence people." WTF? What do you THINK this investigation is about, if not money laundering and shady Russian spies? I think you missed the point of that. The people saying Trump is treasonous aren't saying it because some Russians spies did Russian spy things or corrupt millionaires laundering money or not properly disclosing international relationships. So, then, why are they saying his behavior has been treasonous, in the layman's sense of the word. On July 17 2018 06:08 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 05:59 Plansix wrote:On July 17 2018 05:50 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
Separation of powers is not a license to commit treason or other criminal acts. If the actions that the FBI and intelligence community have taken against Trump and his campaign are without legitimate predicate (which is not only the default presumption, but also appears to be the case in fact so far), then those organizations need to be thoroughly cleaned out. I'm not seeing a lot of evidence to back up these claims you keep making. But I am looking at Paul Manfort's trial for July 25, 2018 and a whole bunch of guilty pleas from people who worked on Trump's team. The investigation has showing there is a lot of fire behind that smoke, including the meeting between Russian operatives and Trump Jr. @TheLordofAwesome: thank you - I was going to do the whole treason thing, but I didn't want to get into it again. People love to throw that word around. You do realize that Mueller already told the Court that there won't be any evidence of, or argument regarding, Trump campaign/Russia collusion, right? That trial will be strictly about pre-campaign stuff. Pretty safe to say they missed that. Manafort's July trial is solely about his various financial crimes. Manafort's charges were among the first unveiled by Mueller. Flynn, Papadopolous, and Pinedo didn't even get formally charged, they went straight to a plea deal. I believe Gates was formally charged but then flipped on Manafort. Anyways, the point is that Manafort's charges were all financial crimes that were announced over half a year ago but the case is only now coming to trial because the legal system takes time. Trump is "in the pocket", "a puppet", "possibly being blackmailed", "colluded", "stole the election with the Russians", and so on... Surely you're familiar. I'm not asking for examples of rhetoric. I'm asking, what exactly is the investigation of Team Trump about, if it's not money laundering, related financial crimes, and very weird and shady interactions with Russian spies? Because you claim only a colossal idiot would think that those 3 things are the basis of the probe.... The people saying Trump is treasonous aren't saying it because some Russians spies did Russian spy things or corrupt millionaires laundering money or not properly disclosing international relationships. So what then, precisely, is Trump and Co. being investigated for? They are being investigated for a wide range of things (what aren't they being investigated for?) as evidenced by the only trial being one completely unrelated to the campaign or collusion. Even if they had emails of Trump saying to Putin "I will pay you if you give me Clinton's emails", we would still be exactly where we are. Cletus can't handle the idea of Trump being indicted. This was bound to be a long, drawn out investigation no matter what. You need to find a bunch of other illegal stuff to allow the investigation to continue. Big stuff comes last. Pretty sure we would have heard about something like that but maybe not. Don't really think that changes anything I'm saying though. Why would we have heard?
There has been pretty much 0 information coming out of the Mueller investigation outside of their indictments.
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On July 17 2018 07:42 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2018 07:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 07:24 Mohdoo wrote:On July 17 2018 07:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 06:36 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 17 2018 06:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 06:26 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 17 2018 06:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 06:06 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 17 2018 05:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
I would say the same to anyone who thinks some cronies being charged = Trump being held accountable. Or that all this Trump-Russia and "treason" stuff is about some money laundering or some Russian intelligence people. Or that they'll face penalties stiffer than poor folks see for stealing food to feed babies.
EDIT: Charges aren't convictions and sentences btw
GH: "I would say [you are a colossal idiot] to anyone who thinks... that all this Trump-Russia and 'treason' stuff is about some money laundering or some Russian intelligence people." WTF? What do you THINK this investigation is about, if not money laundering and shady Russian spies? I think you missed the point of that. The people saying Trump is treasonous aren't saying it because some Russians spies did Russian spy things or corrupt millionaires laundering money or not properly disclosing international relationships. So, then, why are they saying his behavior has been treasonous, in the layman's sense of the word. On July 17 2018 06:08 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 05:59 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
I'm not seeing a lot of evidence to back up these claims you keep making. But I am looking at Paul Manfort's trial for July 25, 2018 and a whole bunch of guilty pleas from people who worked on Trump's team. The investigation has showing there is a lot of fire behind that smoke, including the meeting between Russian operatives and Trump Jr.
@TheLordofAwesome: thank you - I was going to do the whole treason thing, but I didn't want to get into it again. People love to throw that word around. You do realize that Mueller already told the Court that there won't be any evidence of, or argument regarding, Trump campaign/Russia collusion, right? That trial will be strictly about pre-campaign stuff. Pretty safe to say they missed that. Manafort's July trial is solely about his various financial crimes. Manafort's charges were among the first unveiled by Mueller. Flynn, Papadopolous, and Pinedo didn't even get formally charged, they went straight to a plea deal. I believe Gates was formally charged but then flipped on Manafort. Anyways, the point is that Manafort's charges were all financial crimes that were announced over half a year ago but the case is only now coming to trial because the legal system takes time. Trump is "in the pocket", "a puppet", "possibly being blackmailed", "colluded", "stole the election with the Russians", and so on... Surely you're familiar. I'm not asking for examples of rhetoric. I'm asking, what exactly is the investigation of Team Trump about, if it's not money laundering, related financial crimes, and very weird and shady interactions with Russian spies? Because you claim only a colossal idiot would think that those 3 things are the basis of the probe.... The people saying Trump is treasonous aren't saying it because some Russians spies did Russian spy things or corrupt millionaires laundering money or not properly disclosing international relationships. So what then, precisely, is Trump and Co. being investigated for? They are being investigated for a wide range of things (what aren't they being investigated for?) as evidenced by the only trial being one completely unrelated to the campaign or collusion. Even if they had emails of Trump saying to Putin "I will pay you if you give me Clinton's emails", we would still be exactly where we are. Cletus can't handle the idea of Trump being indicted. This was bound to be a long, drawn out investigation no matter what. You need to find a bunch of other illegal stuff to allow the investigation to continue. Big stuff comes last. Pretty sure we would have heard about something like that but maybe not. Don't really think that changes anything I'm saying though. Why would we have heard? There has been pretty much 0 information coming out of the Mueller investigation outside of their indictments.
The investigation didn't originate with the Mueller investigation. It dates back long before that to intelligence and FBI actions that began, at the latest, sometime in the beginning of 2016, and possibly before that. Given how much leaking there has been from those organizations, I'm with GH: if they actually had found something, we'd have known about it. It certainly didn't take along for that dossier to show up.
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On July 17 2018 07:42 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2018 07:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 07:24 Mohdoo wrote:On July 17 2018 07:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 06:36 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 17 2018 06:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 06:26 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 17 2018 06:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2018 06:06 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 17 2018 05:52 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
I would say the same to anyone who thinks some cronies being charged = Trump being held accountable. Or that all this Trump-Russia and "treason" stuff is about some money laundering or some Russian intelligence people. Or that they'll face penalties stiffer than poor folks see for stealing food to feed babies.
EDIT: Charges aren't convictions and sentences btw
GH: "I would say [you are a colossal idiot] to anyone who thinks... that all this Trump-Russia and 'treason' stuff is about some money laundering or some Russian intelligence people." WTF? What do you THINK this investigation is about, if not money laundering and shady Russian spies? I think you missed the point of that. The people saying Trump is treasonous aren't saying it because some Russians spies did Russian spy things or corrupt millionaires laundering money or not properly disclosing international relationships. So, then, why are they saying his behavior has been treasonous, in the layman's sense of the word. On July 17 2018 06:08 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 05:59 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
I'm not seeing a lot of evidence to back up these claims you keep making. But I am looking at Paul Manfort's trial for July 25, 2018 and a whole bunch of guilty pleas from people who worked on Trump's team. The investigation has showing there is a lot of fire behind that smoke, including the meeting between Russian operatives and Trump Jr.
@TheLordofAwesome: thank you - I was going to do the whole treason thing, but I didn't want to get into it again. People love to throw that word around. You do realize that Mueller already told the Court that there won't be any evidence of, or argument regarding, Trump campaign/Russia collusion, right? That trial will be strictly about pre-campaign stuff. Pretty safe to say they missed that. Manafort's July trial is solely about his various financial crimes. Manafort's charges were among the first unveiled by Mueller. Flynn, Papadopolous, and Pinedo didn't even get formally charged, they went straight to a plea deal. I believe Gates was formally charged but then flipped on Manafort. Anyways, the point is that Manafort's charges were all financial crimes that were announced over half a year ago but the case is only now coming to trial because the legal system takes time. Trump is "in the pocket", "a puppet", "possibly being blackmailed", "colluded", "stole the election with the Russians", and so on... Surely you're familiar. I'm not asking for examples of rhetoric. I'm asking, what exactly is the investigation of Team Trump about, if it's not money laundering, related financial crimes, and very weird and shady interactions with Russian spies? Because you claim only a colossal idiot would think that those 3 things are the basis of the probe.... The people saying Trump is treasonous aren't saying it because some Russians spies did Russian spy things or corrupt millionaires laundering money or not properly disclosing international relationships. So what then, precisely, is Trump and Co. being investigated for? They are being investigated for a wide range of things (what aren't they being investigated for?) as evidenced by the only trial being one completely unrelated to the campaign or collusion. Even if they had emails of Trump saying to Putin "I will pay you if you give me Clinton's emails", we would still be exactly where we are. Cletus can't handle the idea of Trump being indicted. This was bound to be a long, drawn out investigation no matter what. You need to find a bunch of other illegal stuff to allow the investigation to continue. Big stuff comes last. Pretty sure we would have heard about something like that but maybe not. Don't really think that changes anything I'm saying though. Why would we have heard? There has been pretty much 0 information coming out of the Mueller investigation outside of their indictments.
Really? That doesn't seem accurate. I mean it doesn't seem like Mueller and his team are leaking things, but something like that would have been through several hands before it got to Mueller, namely the FBI, which have been far from airtight.
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If it was found before the Mueller investigation then yes you may well be right.
If it was found by Mueller we won't know until he wants to tell us.
And just for the record No, I don't suspect there is a literal email from Trump to Putin.
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EPT
