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On March 25 2025 20:33 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2025 08:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 25 2025 07:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 25 2025 07:30 Luolis wrote:
Imagine being Hillary right now :D Obama and Clinton and Biden and Harris were right about everything Trump-related. Always have been, always will be. LibHorizons: Except for the most important things; being the right people/having the correct politics to beat him. Also Clinton's Pied Piper thing is a pretty big exception that also helped make Trump president. What is the charge of this Pied Piper thing? It seems to read much like the various campaigns were somewhat blindsided by Trump at every new hurdle he cleared, and thought he’d be a lock to beat in a Presidential. Which, to be fair, most of us were thinking at the time. Show nested quote + “I admit to being suckered into every narrative that predicted Trump’s demise over and over,” said Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy, a Clinton ally. “I admittedly was a pretty consistent skeptic that they were ultimately going to nominate this buffoon, so I probably came to the realization that he was the nominee as late as anybody."
“I was in denial for a very long time,” added former Vermont Governor Howard Dean, the one-time presidential candidate and DNC chair. “I tell people I was wrong for 52 weeks in a row starting in June.”
That aside it seems a bit rich to simultaneously be digging up the failings of the 2016 campaign, and sidestepping awkward questions on 2024 with a ‘we have to move on folks, what are we doing now?’ I’ve no issues with either but be consistent on this at least.
LibHorizons: Hillary literally intentionally helped Trump become the nominee, and therefore, president.
So to take Bush down, Clinton’s team drew up a plan to pump Trump up.
“... can serve as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right. ...we don’t want to marginalize the more extreme candidates, but make them more ‘Pied Piper’ candidates who actually represent the mainstream of the Republican Party,”
Republicans moving right under Trump's leadership was deliberately encouraged by Clinton and her campaign. Instead of making them easier to beat and Hillary Clinton president like she thought it would, it made Republicans more effective at stripping people of their rights with Democrats help. Hillary made possibly the biggest political mistake of our lives and it's quite the exception to always being right about Trump.
It came up because of DPB's ahistorical Third Way bootlicking. It only emboldens Third Way dead enders in the fight for the future of the party that my fellow libs/Dems/ilk seem largely unwilling/incapable of engaging with at any length.
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On March 26 2025 00:36 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2025 20:33 WombaT wrote:On March 25 2025 08:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 25 2025 07:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 25 2025 07:30 Luolis wrote:
Imagine being Hillary right now :D Obama and Clinton and Biden and Harris were right about everything Trump-related. Always have been, always will be. LibHorizons: Except for the most important things; being the right people/having the correct politics to beat him. Also Clinton's Pied Piper thing is a pretty big exception that also helped make Trump president. What is the charge of this Pied Piper thing? It seems to read much like the various campaigns were somewhat blindsided by Trump at every new hurdle he cleared, and thought he’d be a lock to beat in a Presidential. Which, to be fair, most of us were thinking at the time. “I admit to being suckered into every narrative that predicted Trump’s demise over and over,” said Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy, a Clinton ally. “I admittedly was a pretty consistent skeptic that they were ultimately going to nominate this buffoon, so I probably came to the realization that he was the nominee as late as anybody."
“I was in denial for a very long time,” added former Vermont Governor Howard Dean, the one-time presidential candidate and DNC chair. “I tell people I was wrong for 52 weeks in a row starting in June.”
That aside it seems a bit rich to simultaneously be digging up the failings of the 2016 campaign, and sidestepping awkward questions on 2024 with a ‘we have to move on folks, what are we doing now?’ I’ve no issues with either but be consistent on this at least. LibHorizons: Hillary literally intentionally helped Trump become the nominee, and therefore, president. Show nested quote +So to take Bush down, Clinton’s team drew up a plan to pump Trump up.
“... can serve as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right. ...we don’t want to marginalize the more extreme candidates, but make them more ‘Pied Piper’ candidates who actually represent the mainstream of the Republican Party,” Republicans moving right under Trump's leadership was deliberately encouraged by Clinton and her campaign. Instead of making them easier to beat and Hillary Clinton president like she thought it would, it made Republicans more effective at stripping people of their rights with Democrats help. Hillary made possibly the biggest political mistake of our lives and it's quite the exception to always being right about Trump. It came up because of DPB's ahistorical Third Way bootlicking. It only emboldens Third Way dead enders in the fight for the future of the party that my fellow libs/Dems/ilk seem largely unwilling/incapable of engaging with at any length.
What? I disagree with at least half of what your Third Way persona has written, including:
Bernie Sanders is merely doing vanity tours instead of helping our country
https://tl.net/forum/general/532255-us-politics-mega-thread?page=4836#96701
https://tl.net/forum/general/532255-us-politics-mega-thread?page=4836#96705
And most of your list of 10 takeaways from your cited Comeback Retreat
https://tl.net/forum/general/532255-us-politics-mega-thread?page=4835#96688
https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000195-5511-d4a2-afbf-dd7121940000
Do you really think a teacher is going to bootlick a list that derisively and inaccurately uses a label like "The 'Faculty Lounge' Problem" when describing Democrats possibly being out-of-touch? I don't know what you think goes on in a faculty lounge, but it's mainly teachers printing copies or taking a quick breather between classes.
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Northern Ireland26224 Posts
On March 26 2025 00:36 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2025 20:33 WombaT wrote:On March 25 2025 08:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 25 2025 07:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 25 2025 07:30 Luolis wrote:
Imagine being Hillary right now :D Obama and Clinton and Biden and Harris were right about everything Trump-related. Always have been, always will be. LibHorizons: Except for the most important things; being the right people/having the correct politics to beat him. Also Clinton's Pied Piper thing is a pretty big exception that also helped make Trump president. What is the charge of this Pied Piper thing? It seems to read much like the various campaigns were somewhat blindsided by Trump at every new hurdle he cleared, and thought he’d be a lock to beat in a Presidential. Which, to be fair, most of us were thinking at the time. “I admit to being suckered into every narrative that predicted Trump’s demise over and over,” said Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy, a Clinton ally. “I admittedly was a pretty consistent skeptic that they were ultimately going to nominate this buffoon, so I probably came to the realization that he was the nominee as late as anybody."
“I was in denial for a very long time,” added former Vermont Governor Howard Dean, the one-time presidential candidate and DNC chair. “I tell people I was wrong for 52 weeks in a row starting in June.”
That aside it seems a bit rich to simultaneously be digging up the failings of the 2016 campaign, and sidestepping awkward questions on 2024 with a ‘we have to move on folks, what are we doing now?’ I’ve no issues with either but be consistent on this at least. LibHorizons: Hillary literally intentionally helped Trump become the nominee, and therefore, president. Show nested quote +So to take Bush down, Clinton’s team drew up a plan to pump Trump up.
“... can serve as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right. ...we don’t want to marginalize the more extreme candidates, but make them more ‘Pied Piper’ candidates who actually represent the mainstream of the Republican Party,” Republicans moving right under Trump's leadership was deliberately encouraged by Clinton and her campaign. Instead of making them easier to beat and Hillary Clinton president like she thought it would, it made Republicans more effective at stripping people of their rights with Democrats help. Hillary made possibly the biggest political mistake of our lives and it's quite the exception to always being right about Trump. It came up because of DPB's ahistorical Third Way bootlicking. It only emboldens Third Way dead enders in the fight for the future of the party that my fellow libs/Dems/ilk seem largely unwilling/incapable of engaging with at any length.
I think it’s a perfectly reasonable strategy pragmatically speaking, they just massively miscalculated how palatable Trump would be to many. As many others did as well incidentally, myself included in that.
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On March 26 2025 01:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2025 00:36 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 25 2025 20:33 WombaT wrote:On March 25 2025 08:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 25 2025 07:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 25 2025 07:30 Luolis wrote:
Imagine being Hillary right now :D Obama and Clinton and Biden and Harris were right about everything Trump-related. Always have been, always will be. LibHorizons: Except for the most important things; being the right people/having the correct politics to beat him. Also Clinton's Pied Piper thing is a pretty big exception that also helped make Trump president. What is the charge of this Pied Piper thing? It seems to read much like the various campaigns were somewhat blindsided by Trump at every new hurdle he cleared, and thought he’d be a lock to beat in a Presidential. Which, to be fair, most of us were thinking at the time. “I admit to being suckered into every narrative that predicted Trump’s demise over and over,” said Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy, a Clinton ally. “I admittedly was a pretty consistent skeptic that they were ultimately going to nominate this buffoon, so I probably came to the realization that he was the nominee as late as anybody."
“I was in denial for a very long time,” added former Vermont Governor Howard Dean, the one-time presidential candidate and DNC chair. “I tell people I was wrong for 52 weeks in a row starting in June.”
That aside it seems a bit rich to simultaneously be digging up the failings of the 2016 campaign, and sidestepping awkward questions on 2024 with a ‘we have to move on folks, what are we doing now?’ I’ve no issues with either but be consistent on this at least. LibHorizons: Hillary literally intentionally helped Trump become the nominee, and therefore, president. So to take Bush down, Clinton’s team drew up a plan to pump Trump up.
“... can serve as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right. ...we don’t want to marginalize the more extreme candidates, but make them more ‘Pied Piper’ candidates who actually represent the mainstream of the Republican Party,” Republicans moving right under Trump's leadership was deliberately encouraged by Clinton and her campaign. Instead of making them easier to beat and Hillary Clinton president like she thought it would, it made Republicans more effective at stripping people of their rights with Democrats help. Hillary made possibly the biggest political mistake of our lives and it's quite the exception to always being right about Trump. It came up because of DPB's ahistorical Third Way bootlicking. It only emboldens Third Way dead enders in the fight for the future of the party that my fellow libs/Dems/ilk seem largely unwilling/incapable of engaging with at any length. What? I disagree with at least half of what your Third Way persona has written, including: Bernie Sanders is merely doing vanity tours instead of helping our country https://tl.net/forum/general/532255-us-politics-mega-thread?page=4836#96701 https://tl.net/forum/general/532255-us-politics-mega-thread?page=4836#96705 And most of your list of 10 takeaways from your cited Comeback Retreat https://tl.net/forum/general/532255-us-politics-mega-thread?page=4835#96688 https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000195-5511-d4a2-afbf-dd7121940000 Do you really think a teacher is going to bootlick a list that derisively and inaccurately uses a label like "The 'Faculty Lounge' Problem" when describing Democrats possibly being out-of-touch? I don't know what you think goes on in a faculty lounge, but it's mainly teachers printing copies or taking a quick breather between classes.
LibHorizons: I was pointing out the ahistorical Third Way bootlicking in the specific post I quoted.
ThirdHorizons also clearly addressed your objections: They are going to have to show up and vote for Third Way Democrats whether they like it or not
ThirdHorizons' observation is that your "disagreeing" is functionally just vacuous virtue signaling (and barely that). Ultimately you'll be falling in line behind Third Way Democrats regardless of their blatant disrespect of you and your colleagues, whatever political disagreements you ostensibly have, and plenty more/worse.
On March 26 2025 01:07 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2025 00:36 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 25 2025 20:33 WombaT wrote:On March 25 2025 08:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 25 2025 07:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 25 2025 07:30 Luolis wrote:
Imagine being Hillary right now :D Obama and Clinton and Biden and Harris were right about everything Trump-related. Always have been, always will be. LibHorizons: Except for the most important things; being the right people/having the correct politics to beat him. Also Clinton's Pied Piper thing is a pretty big exception that also helped make Trump president. What is the charge of this Pied Piper thing? It seems to read much like the various campaigns were somewhat blindsided by Trump at every new hurdle he cleared, and thought he’d be a lock to beat in a Presidential. Which, to be fair, most of us were thinking at the time. “I admit to being suckered into every narrative that predicted Trump’s demise over and over,” said Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy, a Clinton ally. “I admittedly was a pretty consistent skeptic that they were ultimately going to nominate this buffoon, so I probably came to the realization that he was the nominee as late as anybody."
“I was in denial for a very long time,” added former Vermont Governor Howard Dean, the one-time presidential candidate and DNC chair. “I tell people I was wrong for 52 weeks in a row starting in June.”
That aside it seems a bit rich to simultaneously be digging up the failings of the 2016 campaign, and sidestepping awkward questions on 2024 with a ‘we have to move on folks, what are we doing now?’ I’ve no issues with either but be consistent on this at least. LibHorizons: Hillary literally intentionally helped Trump become the nominee, and therefore, president. So to take Bush down, Clinton’s team drew up a plan to pump Trump up.
“... can serve as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right. ...we don’t want to marginalize the more extreme candidates, but make them more ‘Pied Piper’ candidates who actually represent the mainstream of the Republican Party,” Republicans moving right under Trump's leadership was deliberately encouraged by Clinton and her campaign. Instead of making them easier to beat and Hillary Clinton president like she thought it would, it made Republicans more effective at stripping people of their rights with Democrats help. Hillary made possibly the biggest political mistake of our lives and it's quite the exception to always being right about Trump. It came up because of DPB's ahistorical Third Way bootlicking. It only emboldens Third Way dead enders in the fight for the future of the party that my fellow libs/Dems/ilk seem largely unwilling/incapable of engaging with at any length. I think it’s a perfectly reasonable strategy pragmatically speaking, they just massively miscalculated how palatable Trump would be to many. As many others did as well incidentally, myself included in that.
LibHorizons: So we agree. Hillary (and her supporters) made possibly the biggest political mistake of our lives and it's quite the exception to DPB's Third Way bootlicking about Hillary always being right about Trump.
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Belgium4985 Posts
GH, you might've addressed this before, so apologies in advance: what's your idea to topple the current Democratic coalition and forge a better alternative out of its ashes? Or, what do you see as being more likely?
Do you change it top-down - a suddent revolt intra party, with someone like AOC dissenting and seceding, taking some "revolutionaries" with her and making the New Democratic party, or is it changed bottom up through a mass protestation of people being so fed up with the inaction?
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On March 26 2025 02:06 Uldridge wrote:
GH, you might've addressed this before, so apologies in advance: what's your idea to topple the current Democratic coalition and forge a better alternative out of its ashes? Or, what do you see as being more likely?
Do you change it top-down - a suddent revolt intra party, with someone like AOC dissenting and seceding, taking some "revolutionaries" with her and making the New Democratic party, or is it changed bottom up through a mass protestation of people being so fed up with the inaction?
LibHorizons: GH is a socialist that supports a general strike.
My idea is roughly this so far. As a sorta modern Bull Moose Progressive I'd support the formation of a new workers party lead by Bernie, AOC, The Squad, the Progressive caucus, and then eventually most of the third way crowd when they realize they can't win unless they join us.
I don't rule out the possibility that can be done from within the party by organizing the people showing up to Bernie's anti-oligarchy tour around the idea that we're going to do the plan with or without Democrat loyalists.
I'm holding out hope that the socialists are wrong about Bernie/AOC just sheepdogging people back into a party that actually opposes the policy they ostensibly support.
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Okay maybe I‘ll rethink my silliness.
I remember a similar post from a while ago on this website lmao.
I just can‘t find it in me to respect the current administration.
Mostly because they remind me of my worst version.
It lasted maybe 4 years, imagine a lifetime.
Sometimes, it‘s you. Other times, it‘s the obligations you have to meet to the the people you meet. You do things because you have to shapeshift.
If Putin is that person, Trump needs to really ask himself if that is himself.
Because US = Russia is an equation that is begging to be written down but nobody is doing.
Why though.
His wife ?
Competition for weaponry in space ?
EU sleeps.
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Vance also visiting Greenland now.
They’re not really going to annex it right, right?
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On March 26 2025 06:06 Laurens wrote:
Vance also visiting Greenland now.
They’re not really going to annex it right, right?
I'm leaning towards No - I think Trump is mostly just posturing and trying to show off how he can threaten everyone and still be untouchable - but who knows? If someone was going to arbitrarily decide to invade allied countries and destroy our relationships with the rest of the world, it would obviously be Trump.
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I'm leaning towards yes. The Republicans seem to suffer from the same affliction as the Russians: they started to believe their own lies.
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I fully expect there to be a tell-all book from "the only sane person in the WH" 4 years from now writing about how Trump legit wanted to annex Greenland and had to be talked down.
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Why would Republicans let Europeans have Greenland? Their spite for Europe is clear as day. When Vance and Co. listen to people like Curtis Yarvin, it is clear that they will not stop just because it would be bad for the economy, unpopular, or ruin alliances. There is no reason to let such important resources stay under the rule of democracies or liberals when everything could be governed by an absolutist CEO. Canada should also be freed from the scourge of democracy.
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On March 26 2025 06:50 Legan wrote:
Why would Republicans let Europeans have Greenland? Their spite for Europe is clear as day. When Vance and Co. listen to people like Curtis Yarvin, it is clear that they will not stop just because it would be bad for the economy, unpopular, or ruin alliances. There is no reason to let such important resources stay under the rule of democracies or liberals when everything could be governed by an absolutist CEO. Canada should also be freed from the scourge of democracy.
It‘s all fun and games until EU cedes to the natural neighbour Russia and the US stands alone as the once liberal power.
Maybe Trump and Musk made deals to bring themselves into safety after selling out their country.
Why does Musks daughter want to leave for Japan ? It‘s the richest family.
Why do people in the US choose to be trans more often than in other countries ? Awake yet?
In either case, they are unfit to run their country.
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On March 26 2025 06:06 Laurens wrote:
Vance also visiting Greenland now.
They’re not really going to annex it right, right?
What I can tell you with 100% certainty is that people with TGS will say how absolutely brilliant it is to get Greenland if he does and if he doesn't they will say silly dumb libs he was obviously trolling. They also will not say what they think now, because they are not sure what the right answer is until after he does it and tells them.
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On March 26 2025 06:54 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2025 06:50 Legan wrote:
Why would Republicans let Europeans have Greenland? Their spite for Europe is clear as day. When Vance and Co. listen to people like Curtis Yarvin, it is clear that they will not stop just because it would be bad for the economy, unpopular, or ruin alliances. There is no reason to let such important resources stay under the rule of democracies or liberals when everything could be governed by an absolutist CEO. Canada should also be freed from the scourge of democracy. It‘s all fun and games until EU cedes to the natural neighbour Russia and the US stands alone as the once liberal power. Maybe Trump and Musk made deals to bring themselves into safety after selling out their country. Why does Musks daughter want to leave for Japan ? It‘s the richest family. Why do people in the US choose to be trans more often than in other countries ? Awake yet? In either case, they are unfit to run their country.
What?
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Northern Ireland26224 Posts
What is TGS? I’m assuming like the opposite of TDS in some way?
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On March 26 2025 06:06 Laurens wrote:
Vance also visiting Greenland now.
They’re not really going to annex it right, right?
Europe should make clear that US american soldiers and companies can pack up their shit and leave Europe after 80 years or face being deported in the event of the US violating boarders.
This chat-reveal kinda shows that they are actually believe that somehow the US is delivering welfare and peace, when every airbase is really just a big "S.P.Q.R" Banner rammed into foreign ground.
While discussion military action.. that has no value to the US other than "looking strong" and then claiming "it's for europe"
Those people are amped up on drugs and follow some kind of cult.
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On March 26 2025 07:49 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2025 06:54 Vivax wrote:On March 26 2025 06:50 Legan wrote:
Why would Republicans let Europeans have Greenland? Their spite for Europe is clear as day. When Vance and Co. listen to people like Curtis Yarvin, it is clear that they will not stop just because it would be bad for the economy, unpopular, or ruin alliances. There is no reason to let such important resources stay under the rule of democracies or liberals when everything could be governed by an absolutist CEO. Canada should also be freed from the scourge of democracy. It‘s all fun and games until EU cedes to the natural neighbour Russia and the US stands alone as the once liberal power. Maybe Trump and Musk made deals to bring themselves into safety after selling out their country. Why does Musks daughter want to leave for Japan ? It‘s the richest family. Why do people in the US choose to be trans more often than in other countries ? Awake yet? In either case, they are unfit to run their country. What?
Pretend you’re in a chokehold. One side tries to help you and you pour your last remaining strength into it, but they decide you’re just not worth it.
You can fill in the blanks.
I’d also be less upset with the aggressor than the one promising fake backup.
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On March 26 2025 07:49 WombaT wrote:
What is TGS? I’m assuming like the opposite of TDS in some way?
Trump Genius Syndrome. It is for the people who no matter what Trump says or does they say it is brilliant 4d chess.
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Northern Ireland26224 Posts
On March 26 2025 08:37 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2025 07:49 WombaT wrote:
What is TGS? I’m assuming like the opposite of TDS in some way? Trump Genius Syndrome. It is for the people who no matter what Trump says or does they say it is brilliant 4d chess.
Cheers, a new one for me to use!
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EPT
