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On December 08 2024 10:14 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2024 10:10 Zambrah wrote:
I mean, if youre saying, "lol we're fucked give up," then yeah I guess thats a valid view on US healthcare or the US rebalancing itself away from being dominated by the uber rich in any meaningful way
If you're saying theres some other systematic solution that would work then I'd have to call you some form of crazy at this point The revolution, friend, the revolution. A little more seriously, I don't think there's an active solution. The solution is passive. You wait for this extreme version of capitalism to fall. I can't really see any other way.
It‘s never going to fail. Politicians work for the big corporations to make sure of that. One can‘t exist without the other.
You‘d have to dismantle the concept of publicly traded and privately owned shares and share ownership of a company equally among society but it‘s about a century too late for that idea.
We‘re all just run by wealthy entities who play favoritism.
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On December 08 2024 14:02 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2024 12:53 Magic Powers wrote:On December 08 2024 10:32 Biff The Understudy wrote:
At the end i feel we are always having the same discussion, which is whether or not it’s worth believing in liberal democracy, in the rule of law, in the very imperfect society we live in, or whether all bets are off, and we just go straight into civil war and violent revolution, where you win arguments by gunning down the baddies.
I hear that lots of us here believe that there is nothing to save in the current system. The question i have is whether any of you would be ready to face the consequences of the abandonment of every principles or societies are based upon. Because well. It’s very easy to talk Revolution on a gaming forum.
I personally still prefer to know that we are not ok with executing people in the street even when we think they are absolutely terrible. Because as Drone mentioned, many of us are probably on the kill list of someone. You took the plane too many times and ate quite a few too many steaks last year, you are destroying the planet, you gotta go. Or your girlfriend had an abortion. Or whatever some lunatic might find that makes you a criminal in their eyes.
America is super broken but honestly the first reason for it, before capitalism, corruption or corporate greed is its cult of violence. Want to make the country a better place, start by stopping to believe that murdering the bad guy is the way forward to build a better world. By letting murderous CEOs run corporations, we have already broken every principle of a functional society. We're not the ones breaking things, we're pointing out how broken things are and calling for change. You are, as usual, mistaking the symptom for the cause. You will not solve this by killing CEOs or regulating who gets to be one. A solution would be to change the bastardized health insurance system in the US. Even though that is a harder task than killing people in self-righteous anger and probably less gratifying to you.
You are, as usual, mistaking the lack of tear-shedding for a mass murderer for the solution. You will not shame me by expressing no sympathy for a bloodthirsty for-profit serial killer or guilt-trip others mocking his death. You can keep your crocodile tears to yourself.
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On December 08 2024 15:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Once you have normalized that we can kill each other if we have a really good reason, all bets are off
Normalized killing such as a CEO getting away with bloody murder. You're still not getting it. We're not the ones normalizing any killing, we're just dancing around the corpse of an individual who himself created the normalization.
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On December 08 2024 19:32 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2024 19:21 KwarK wrote:
Assassinations aren’t the same as other killings even though the death count may be equivalent. But i am sure a bunch of these other murders would also qualify as assassinations. 1) And at what point does someone killing a person who they feel has wronged them become an assassination instead of just a murder? 2) Is it just when the person getting killed is rich and powerful? 3) If i think my boss fucked me over by firing me, and kill them, is that an assassination? 4) If i think my boss's boss ruined my life by setting up policy that gets me fired, and kill them, is that an assassination? 5) If i think my doctor mistreated me and ruined my life, and kill them, is that an assassination? Why does it become an assassination when i kill the boss of the company that made my doctor not give me life-saving treatment? And if yes, why is it worse to kill someone powerful rather than just killing some other person, if the reason is fundamentally similar?
1) When the target is a murderer and people need to be protected from future murders. Such as in the case of that CEO who killed many people for profit.
2+3+4+5) Those are all examples of murder.
See? It's not that difficult.
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People don't seem to understand the fundamental difference between the CEO Brian Thompson and other CEOs who are exploiting people's labor or illegally speculating with people's money. They're not the same kinds of CEOs. They're literally not the same kinds of people.
Brian Thompson is practically the nurse who deliberately overdoses patients on a saline solution. You wouldn't shed a tear if that nurse got taken out in a crossfire by police. But for some reason you're shedding crocodile tears in the instance of Thompson-hit-the-cement who is literally equal to a serial killer nurse.
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On December 08 2024 22:49 Magic Powers wrote:
People don't seem to understand the fundamental difference between the CEO Brian Thompson and other CEOs who are exploiting people's labor or illegally speculating with people's money. They're not the same kinds of CEOs. They're literally not the same kinds of people.
Brian Thompson is practically the nurse who deliberately overdoses patients on a saline solution. You wouldn't shed a tear if that nurse got taken out in a crossfire by police. But for some reason you're shedding crocodile tears in the instance of Thompson-hit-the-cement who is literally equal to a serial killer nurse.
I for one am certainly not shedding tears. The world might very well be a better place without him. The issue comes when you start to frame this as self-defense which just shows that you have no idea what this term means. Legally or logically. And secondly, it is as biff says. When you normalize gunning people down you might just realize that the other side is better armed, more efficient AND more ruthless than you are. For an armed conflict or a revolution you need the support of the population. For some reason I doubt you have that in a country where a majority of voters just elected Donald Trump.
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On December 08 2024 23:25 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2024 22:49 Magic Powers wrote:
People don't seem to understand the fundamental difference between the CEO Brian Thompson and other CEOs who are exploiting people's labor or illegally speculating with people's money. They're not the same kinds of CEOs. They're literally not the same kinds of people.
Brian Thompson is practically the nurse who deliberately overdoses patients on a saline solution. You wouldn't shed a tear if that nurse got taken out in a crossfire by police. But for some reason you're shedding crocodile tears in the instance of Thompson-hit-the-cement who is literally equal to a serial killer nurse. I for one am certainly not shedding tears. The world might very well be a better place without him. The issue comes when you start to frame this as self-defense which just shows that you have no idea what this term means. Legally or logically. And secondly, it is as biff says. When you normalize gunning people down you might just realize that the other side is better armed, more efficient AND more ruthless than you are. For an armed conflict or a revolution you need the support of the population. For some reason I doubt you have that in a country where a majority of voters just elected Donald Trump.
I know very well what self-defense means, it's a topic I've cared about for many years. If there's a direct threat to someone's life, you're allowed to kill the attacker. In this instance the government failed to uphold the law that would protect people from the attacking CEO. Thus the right extends to people to protect themselves. The CEO is the threat to people's lives, the authorities are not doing their job, and thus people are right to eliminate the threat by any means necessary.
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On December 08 2024 23:29 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2024 23:25 justanothertownie wrote:On December 08 2024 22:49 Magic Powers wrote:
People don't seem to understand the fundamental difference between the CEO Brian Thompson and other CEOs who are exploiting people's labor or illegally speculating with people's money. They're not the same kinds of CEOs. They're literally not the same kinds of people.
Brian Thompson is practically the nurse who deliberately overdoses patients on a saline solution. You wouldn't shed a tear if that nurse got taken out in a crossfire by police. But for some reason you're shedding crocodile tears in the instance of Thompson-hit-the-cement who is literally equal to a serial killer nurse. I for one am certainly not shedding tears. The world might very well be a better place without him. The issue comes when you start to frame this as self-defense which just shows that you have no idea what this term means. Legally or logically. And secondly, it is as biff says. When you normalize gunning people down you might just realize that the other side is better armed, more efficient AND more ruthless than you are. For an armed conflict or a revolution you need the support of the population. For some reason I doubt you have that in a country where a majority of voters just elected Donald Trump. I know very well what self-defense means, it's a topic I've cared about for many years. If there's a direct threat to someone's life, you're allowed to kill the attacker. In this instance the government failed to uphold the law that would protect people from the attacking CEO. Thus the right extends to people to protect themselves. The CEO is the threat to people's lives, the authorities are not doing their job, and thus people are right to eliminate the threat by any means necessary.
Ok, my proposal would then be that you spend the next few years trying to understand the term "direct threat".
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On December 08 2024 23:51 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2024 23:29 Magic Powers wrote:On December 08 2024 23:25 justanothertownie wrote:On December 08 2024 22:49 Magic Powers wrote:
People don't seem to understand the fundamental difference between the CEO Brian Thompson and other CEOs who are exploiting people's labor or illegally speculating with people's money. They're not the same kinds of CEOs. They're literally not the same kinds of people.
Brian Thompson is practically the nurse who deliberately overdoses patients on a saline solution. You wouldn't shed a tear if that nurse got taken out in a crossfire by police. But for some reason you're shedding crocodile tears in the instance of Thompson-hit-the-cement who is literally equal to a serial killer nurse. I for one am certainly not shedding tears. The world might very well be a better place without him. The issue comes when you start to frame this as self-defense which just shows that you have no idea what this term means. Legally or logically. And secondly, it is as biff says. When you normalize gunning people down you might just realize that the other side is better armed, more efficient AND more ruthless than you are. For an armed conflict or a revolution you need the support of the population. For some reason I doubt you have that in a country where a majority of voters just elected Donald Trump. I know very well what self-defense means, it's a topic I've cared about for many years. If there's a direct threat to someone's life, you're allowed to kill the attacker. In this instance the government failed to uphold the law that would protect people from the attacking CEO. Thus the right extends to people to protect themselves. The CEO is the threat to people's lives, the authorities are not doing their job, and thus people are right to eliminate the threat by any means necessary. Ok, my proposal would then be that you spend the next few years trying to understand the term "direct threat".
I already have, thank you very much. If you think this CEO wasn't going to murder more people, you're utterly and completely delusional.
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On December 08 2024 22:49 Magic Powers wrote:
People don't seem to understand the fundamental difference between the CEO Brian Thompson and other CEOs who are exploiting people's labor or illegally speculating with people's money. They're not the same kinds of CEOs. They're literally not the same kinds of people.
Brian Thompson is practically the nurse who deliberately overdoses patients on a saline solution. You wouldn't shed a tear if that nurse got taken out in a crossfire by police. But for some reason you're shedding crocodile tears in the instance of Thompson-hit-the-cement who is literally equal to a serial killer nurse.
Every insurance company denies claims.
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Northern Ireland25318 Posts
On December 08 2024 21:07 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2024 15:41 Zambrah wrote:Once you have normalized that we can kill each other if we have a really good reason, I dont see how this isn't what the US healthcare system isnt already doing. Why is systematized death so much more tolerable? Its entirely normalized in the US that US healthcare companies can cause you to suffer and die for the really goodest reason in capitalism, money. To answer the second part, when political action is broken, you fight to restore the power of political action. It’s slow, it’s frustrating, it’s despairingly difficult. It needs to be done at every level, from complete grassroot to the top of the political apparatus. It means a lot of convincing. And the result is not guaranteed. How do you restore the power of poltiical action within a system coopted by the rich and powerful? Do you think that the rich and powerful will give up their money without the threat of violence? This is the same problem the police as an institution have, even if you get some good cops they get squeezed out or turned into bad cops by the institutionalized power of all of the bad cops. You can elect politicians that say they want to do things you want, but the system is setup to make sure that those things you want that conflict with what the rich and powerful want do not happen. Sorry, but societally, violence has to be an option. If Elon Musk bought Wizards of the Coast and basically gave himself ultimate power in Dungeons and Dragons then nothing you do can force him to rescind his ultimate power so you can enjoy the game without either, A. abandoning Dungeons and Dragons B. beating his ass up until he changes it back. It would be nice not to have to be in this place, but we are in that place. Take it up with billionaires and all of the other awful scumbags who have systematically hurt and killed so many people for green paper, because at this point theyre the only ones with any meaningful ability to affect systematic change. EDIT: None of this even begins to approach the problem of the unbelievable human suffering and death that we just have to accept while whatever concept you have for a long and hard road plays out. There is no path here that is not drenched with blood, I just personally prefer the one with the blood of the people responsible for this situation instead of droves of ostensible innocents. If you don’t see the difference between what is happening in the US with healthcare acting like douches and what i am talking about, mate, there is nothing to talk about. I am talking about people being thrown alive from planes. At some point i am powerless to make a point if you don’t at the very least make a little effort. At the end it’s always there limits of this thread. The complete incapacity of just getting out of your little, narrow, priviledged American perspective and realize that, yeah, the US absolutely suck, but it’s worse when death squads come and disappear your whole family because someone once participated in a demonstration. That’s what happened in Argentina and it started with good left wing folks innocently murdering the really bad rich CEOs in the street. And no, a death ain’t equal a death. Someone dying because he got denied his medicine is horrible, but a couple of 23 years olds getting arrested, taken to a military building, tortured for weeks, then have the dude thrown from a plane from 2000 metres while the military waits for the wife to give birth in order to steal her baby and give it to infertile officers before throwing her into the sea also is really, really, really, really worse. Can’t you see it? Or is it “what the US system is already doing?” So that’s what a civil war looks like. Do you want that. Honestly, i am absolutely on the same side than you, but you make me angry, and so, i am out if there.
Alternatively, as often happens some targeted violence can expedite changes being made through legal mechanisms and things then subsequently reset into some kind of normality. Not necessarily executions and killings either, but disruptive protest that may come with some low-level violence, or things like that.
Changes that perhaps would take eons without that, or at least the threat of it.
Although crucially those tend to be in circumstances of issues of some mass support. Those where it’s a ‘well 60-70% of the population have felt this way for ages and we haven’t fixed it before, but now they’re really pissed I guess we better do it.’
If we’re talking political violence on issues that are very polarising ones, across political wings, then yeah that can very quickly spiral into extremely ugly violence of the kind you’re outlining.
I imagine we’ll see some on housing at some point, unless effective action is taken. May not be for decades either, but surely there will come a tipping point? I dunno if we’ll still be posting on here for me to call back to this prediction mind!
That dam bursting could well carry a huge human cost and be disastrous, but by then you’ll be talking that water building up for 50, 60, 70+ years without discharge to release the strain.
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On December 08 2024 22:36 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2024 14:02 justanothertownie wrote:On December 08 2024 12:53 Magic Powers wrote:On December 08 2024 10:32 Biff The Understudy wrote:
At the end i feel we are always having the same discussion, which is whether or not it’s worth believing in liberal democracy, in the rule of law, in the very imperfect society we live in, or whether all bets are off, and we just go straight into civil war and violent revolution, where you win arguments by gunning down the baddies.
I hear that lots of us here believe that there is nothing to save in the current system. The question i have is whether any of you would be ready to face the consequences of the abandonment of every principles or societies are based upon. Because well. It’s very easy to talk Revolution on a gaming forum.
I personally still prefer to know that we are not ok with executing people in the street even when we think they are absolutely terrible. Because as Drone mentioned, many of us are probably on the kill list of someone. You took the plane too many times and ate quite a few too many steaks last year, you are destroying the planet, you gotta go. Or your girlfriend had an abortion. Or whatever some lunatic might find that makes you a criminal in their eyes.
America is super broken but honestly the first reason for it, before capitalism, corruption or corporate greed is its cult of violence. Want to make the country a better place, start by stopping to believe that murdering the bad guy is the way forward to build a better world. By letting murderous CEOs run corporations, we have already broken every principle of a functional society. We're not the ones breaking things, we're pointing out how broken things are and calling for change. You are, as usual, mistaking the symptom for the cause. You will not solve this by killing CEOs or regulating who gets to be one. A solution would be to change the bastardized health insurance system in the US. Even though that is a harder task than killing people in self-righteous anger and probably less gratifying to you. You are, as usual, mistaking the lack of tear-shedding for a mass murderer for the solution. You will not shame me by expressing no sympathy for a bloodthirsty for-profit serial killer or guilt-trip others mocking his death. You can keep your crocodile tears to yourself.
There are also gun shop owners waiting for justice to be dished out.
Cigarette companies.
News outlets who invite imitators due to irresponsible reporting.
Gotta execute em all according to society on social media. Like Batman, but with a picture of humanitarian Stalin on his chest.
Or maybe society on social media is nuts.
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On December 08 2024 23:29 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2024 23:25 justanothertownie wrote:On December 08 2024 22:49 Magic Powers wrote:
People don't seem to understand the fundamental difference between the CEO Brian Thompson and other CEOs who are exploiting people's labor or illegally speculating with people's money. They're not the same kinds of CEOs. They're literally not the same kinds of people.
Brian Thompson is practically the nurse who deliberately overdoses patients on a saline solution. You wouldn't shed a tear if that nurse got taken out in a crossfire by police. But for some reason you're shedding crocodile tears in the instance of Thompson-hit-the-cement who is literally equal to a serial killer nurse. I for one am certainly not shedding tears. The world might very well be a better place without him. The issue comes when you start to frame this as self-defense which just shows that you have no idea what this term means. Legally or logically. And secondly, it is as biff says. When you normalize gunning people down you might just realize that the other side is better armed, more efficient AND more ruthless than you are. For an armed conflict or a revolution you need the support of the population. For some reason I doubt you have that in a country where a majority of voters just elected Donald Trump. I know very well what self-defense means, it's a topic I've cared about for many years. If there's a direct threat to someone's life, you're allowed to kill the attacker. In this instance the government failed to uphold the law that would protect people from the attacking CEO. Thus the right extends to people to protect themselves. The CEO is the threat to people's lives, the authorities are not doing their job, and thus people are right to eliminate the threat by any means necessary.
You clearly don't know what self-defense means. Or rather, you have redefined it yourself in such a way that nobody agrees with you.Self-defense is a legal justification if someone is in the act of threatening your life (or your loved ones) in a way that only immediate violence can prevent. Shooting a CEO who is heading to a business meeting is not self-defense, it's at best vigilantism.
As I have said before, I shed no tears for the death of this piece of shit CEO. But that doesn't make it self-defense, nor does it justify murdering people.
And this isn't the first time your unhinged "morality" crops up in this thread. I urgently suggest you talk to a professional before you decide to take "self-defense" into your own hands...
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Northern Ireland25318 Posts
On December 09 2024 01:33 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2024 22:36 Magic Powers wrote:On December 08 2024 14:02 justanothertownie wrote:On December 08 2024 12:53 Magic Powers wrote:On December 08 2024 10:32 Biff The Understudy wrote:
At the end i feel we are always having the same discussion, which is whether or not it’s worth believing in liberal democracy, in the rule of law, in the very imperfect society we live in, or whether all bets are off, and we just go straight into civil war and violent revolution, where you win arguments by gunning down the baddies.
I hear that lots of us here believe that there is nothing to save in the current system. The question i have is whether any of you would be ready to face the consequences of the abandonment of every principles or societies are based upon. Because well. It’s very easy to talk Revolution on a gaming forum.
I personally still prefer to know that we are not ok with executing people in the street even when we think they are absolutely terrible. Because as Drone mentioned, many of us are probably on the kill list of someone. You took the plane too many times and ate quite a few too many steaks last year, you are destroying the planet, you gotta go. Or your girlfriend had an abortion. Or whatever some lunatic might find that makes you a criminal in their eyes.
America is super broken but honestly the first reason for it, before capitalism, corruption or corporate greed is its cult of violence. Want to make the country a better place, start by stopping to believe that murdering the bad guy is the way forward to build a better world. By letting murderous CEOs run corporations, we have already broken every principle of a functional society. We're not the ones breaking things, we're pointing out how broken things are and calling for change. You are, as usual, mistaking the symptom for the cause. You will not solve this by killing CEOs or regulating who gets to be one. A solution would be to change the bastardized health insurance system in the US. Even though that is a harder task than killing people in self-righteous anger and probably less gratifying to you. You are, as usual, mistaking the lack of tear-shedding for a mass murderer for the solution. You will not shame me by expressing no sympathy for a bloodthirsty for-profit serial killer or guilt-trip others mocking his death. You can keep your crocodile tears to yourself. There are also gun shop owners waiting for justice to be dished out. Cigarette companies. News outlets who invite imitators due to irresponsible reporting. Gotta execute em all according to society on social media. Like Batman, but with a picture of humanitarian Stalin on his chest. Or maybe society on social media is nuts.
As a long-standing, pretty heavy smoker myself, I can’t really argue that the industry is anything other than horrific and really shouldn’t exist.
Alcohol, or other recreational drugs have many negative externalities, but many a good time is also had.
Smoking doesn’t really do all that much, you just get addicted and dependent on it. It does admittedly look cool in neo-noir films so there is that
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On December 09 2024 01:33 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2024 22:36 Magic Powers wrote:On December 08 2024 14:02 justanothertownie wrote:On December 08 2024 12:53 Magic Powers wrote:On December 08 2024 10:32 Biff The Understudy wrote:
At the end i feel we are always having the same discussion, which is whether or not it’s worth believing in liberal democracy, in the rule of law, in the very imperfect society we live in, or whether all bets are off, and we just go straight into civil war and violent revolution, where you win arguments by gunning down the baddies.
I hear that lots of us here believe that there is nothing to save in the current system. The question i have is whether any of you would be ready to face the consequences of the abandonment of every principles or societies are based upon. Because well. It’s very easy to talk Revolution on a gaming forum.
I personally still prefer to know that we are not ok with executing people in the street even when we think they are absolutely terrible. Because as Drone mentioned, many of us are probably on the kill list of someone. You took the plane too many times and ate quite a few too many steaks last year, you are destroying the planet, you gotta go. Or your girlfriend had an abortion. Or whatever some lunatic might find that makes you a criminal in their eyes.
America is super broken but honestly the first reason for it, before capitalism, corruption or corporate greed is its cult of violence. Want to make the country a better place, start by stopping to believe that murdering the bad guy is the way forward to build a better world. By letting murderous CEOs run corporations, we have already broken every principle of a functional society. We're not the ones breaking things, we're pointing out how broken things are and calling for change. You are, as usual, mistaking the symptom for the cause. You will not solve this by killing CEOs or regulating who gets to be one. A solution would be to change the bastardized health insurance system in the US. Even though that is a harder task than killing people in self-righteous anger and probably less gratifying to you. You are, as usual, mistaking the lack of tear-shedding for a mass murderer for the solution. You will not shame me by expressing no sympathy for a bloodthirsty for-profit serial killer or guilt-trip others mocking his death. You can keep your crocodile tears to yourself. There are also gun shop owners waiting for justice to be dished out. Cigarette companies. News outlets who invite imitators due to irresponsible reporting. Gotta execute em all according to society on social media. Like Batman, but with a picture of humanitarian Stalin on his chest. Or maybe society on social media is nuts.
You don't have to execute all of them, just enough to let them know that people really are sick of the bullshit so they actually go and fix their shit.
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On December 09 2024 01:02 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2024 22:49 Magic Powers wrote:
People don't seem to understand the fundamental difference between the CEO Brian Thompson and other CEOs who are exploiting people's labor or illegally speculating with people's money. They're not the same kinds of CEOs. They're literally not the same kinds of people.
Brian Thompson is practically the nurse who deliberately overdoses patients on a saline solution. You wouldn't shed a tear if that nurse got taken out in a crossfire by police. But for some reason you're shedding crocodile tears in the instance of Thompson-hit-the-cement who is literally equal to a serial killer nurse. Every insurance company denies claims.
And the anger the American public feels is the shared by all of them. If any of the healthcare CEOs had been gunned down instead of United healthcare, the public reaction would be the same.
It's not him in particular that people hate, it's everything he represents.
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On December 09 2024 01:02 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2024 22:49 Magic Powers wrote:
People don't seem to understand the fundamental difference between the CEO Brian Thompson and other CEOs who are exploiting people's labor or illegally speculating with people's money. They're not the same kinds of CEOs. They're literally not the same kinds of people.
Brian Thompson is practically the nurse who deliberately overdoses patients on a saline solution. You wouldn't shed a tear if that nurse got taken out in a crossfire by police. But for some reason you're shedding crocodile tears in the instance of Thompson-hit-the-cement who is literally equal to a serial killer nurse. Every insurance company denies claims.
Thank you for admitting that the CEO was committing a lot of murders.
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On December 09 2024 01:40 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2024 23:29 Magic Powers wrote:On December 08 2024 23:25 justanothertownie wrote:On December 08 2024 22:49 Magic Powers wrote:
People don't seem to understand the fundamental difference between the CEO Brian Thompson and other CEOs who are exploiting people's labor or illegally speculating with people's money. They're not the same kinds of CEOs. They're literally not the same kinds of people.
Brian Thompson is practically the nurse who deliberately overdoses patients on a saline solution. You wouldn't shed a tear if that nurse got taken out in a crossfire by police. But for some reason you're shedding crocodile tears in the instance of Thompson-hit-the-cement who is literally equal to a serial killer nurse. I for one am certainly not shedding tears. The world might very well be a better place without him. The issue comes when you start to frame this as self-defense which just shows that you have no idea what this term means. Legally or logically. And secondly, it is as biff says. When you normalize gunning people down you might just realize that the other side is better armed, more efficient AND more ruthless than you are. For an armed conflict or a revolution you need the support of the population. For some reason I doubt you have that in a country where a majority of voters just elected Donald Trump. I know very well what self-defense means, it's a topic I've cared about for many years. If there's a direct threat to someone's life, you're allowed to kill the attacker. In this instance the government failed to uphold the law that would protect people from the attacking CEO. Thus the right extends to people to protect themselves. The CEO is the threat to people's lives, the authorities are not doing their job, and thus people are right to eliminate the threat by any means necessary. You clearly don't know what self-defense means. Or rather, you have redefined it yourself in such a way that nobody agrees with you.Self-defense is a legal justification if someone is in the act of threatening your life (or your loved ones) in a way that only immediate violence can prevent. Shooting a CEO who is heading to a business meeting is not self-defense, it's at best vigilantism. As I have said before, I shed no tears for the death of this piece of shit CEO. But that doesn't make it self-defense, nor does it justify murdering people. And this isn't the first time your unhinged "morality" crops up in this thread. I urgently suggest you talk to a professional before you decide to take "self-defense" into your own hands...
Keep justifying mass murder, you'll only see more people supporting this kind of assassination.
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On December 09 2024 01:40 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2024 23:29 Magic Powers wrote:On December 08 2024 23:25 justanothertownie wrote:On December 08 2024 22:49 Magic Powers wrote:
People don't seem to understand the fundamental difference between the CEO Brian Thompson and other CEOs who are exploiting people's labor or illegally speculating with people's money. They're not the same kinds of CEOs. They're literally not the same kinds of people.
Brian Thompson is practically the nurse who deliberately overdoses patients on a saline solution. You wouldn't shed a tear if that nurse got taken out in a crossfire by police. But for some reason you're shedding crocodile tears in the instance of Thompson-hit-the-cement who is literally equal to a serial killer nurse. I for one am certainly not shedding tears. The world might very well be a better place without him. The issue comes when you start to frame this as self-defense which just shows that you have no idea what this term means. Legally or logically. And secondly, it is as biff says. When you normalize gunning people down you might just realize that the other side is better armed, more efficient AND more ruthless than you are. For an armed conflict or a revolution you need the support of the population. For some reason I doubt you have that in a country where a majority of voters just elected Donald Trump. I know very well what self-defense means, it's a topic I've cared about for many years. If there's a direct threat to someone's life, you're allowed to kill the attacker. In this instance the government failed to uphold the law that would protect people from the attacking CEO. Thus the right extends to people to protect themselves. The CEO is the threat to people's lives, the authorities are not doing their job, and thus people are right to eliminate the threat by any means necessary. You clearly don't know what self-defense means. Or rather, you have redefined it yourself in such a way that nobody agrees with you.Self-defense is a legal justification if someone is in the act of threatening your life (or your loved ones) in a way that only immediate violence can prevent. + Show Spoiler +Shooting a CEO who is heading to a business meeting is not self-defense, it's at best vigilantism.
As I have said before, I shed no tears for the death of this piece of shit CEO. But that doesn't make it self-defense, nor does it justify murdering people.
And this isn't the first time your unhinged "morality" crops up in this thread. I urgently suggest you talk to a professional before you decide to take "self-defense" into your own hands...
Israel's slaughter of 10's of thousands of women and children has done far more to redefine "self-defense" in the west than Magic ever could. Same goes for the invasion of Iraq and other examples like irrationally frightened cops.
The point is that this notion that killing CEOs would be breaking some taboo about harming people out of self-interest is wrong. It'd just make CEOs more vulnerable like the rest of us to a system that is dependent on harming people out of self-interest/greed.
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On December 08 2024 21:07 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2024 15:41 Zambrah wrote:Once you have normalized that we can kill each other if we have a really good reason, I dont see how this isn't what the US healthcare system isnt already doing. Why is systematized death so much more tolerable? Its entirely normalized in the US that US healthcare companies can cause you to suffer and die for the really goodest reason in capitalism, money. To answer the second part, when political action is broken, you fight to restore the power of political action. It’s slow, it’s frustrating, it’s despairingly difficult. It needs to be done at every level, from complete grassroot to the top of the political apparatus. It means a lot of convincing. And the result is not guaranteed. How do you restore the power of poltiical action within a system coopted by the rich and powerful? Do you think that the rich and powerful will give up their money without the threat of violence? This is the same problem the police as an institution have, even if you get some good cops they get squeezed out or turned into bad cops by the institutionalized power of all of the bad cops. You can elect politicians that say they want to do things you want, but the system is setup to make sure that those things you want that conflict with what the rich and powerful want do not happen. Sorry, but societally, violence has to be an option. If Elon Musk bought Wizards of the Coast and basically gave himself ultimate power in Dungeons and Dragons then nothing you do can force him to rescind his ultimate power so you can enjoy the game without either, A. abandoning Dungeons and Dragons B. beating his ass up until he changes it back. It would be nice not to have to be in this place, but we are in that place. Take it up with billionaires and all of the other awful scumbags who have systematically hurt and killed so many people for green paper, because at this point theyre the only ones with any meaningful ability to affect systematic change. EDIT: None of this even begins to approach the problem of the unbelievable human suffering and death that we just have to accept while whatever concept you have for a long and hard road plays out. There is no path here that is not drenched with blood, I just personally prefer the one with the blood of the people responsible for this situation instead of droves of ostensible innocents. If you don’t see the difference between what is happening in the US with healthcare acting like douches and what i am talking about, mate, there is nothing to talk about. I am talking about people being thrown alive from planes. At some point i am powerless to make a point if you don’t at the very least make a little effort. At the end it’s always there limits of this thread. The complete incapacity of just getting out of your little, narrow, priviledged American perspective and realize that, yeah, the US absolutely suck, but it’s worse when death squads come and disappear your whole family because someone once participated in a demonstration. That’s what happened in Argentina and it started with good left wing folks innocently murdering the really bad rich CEOs in the street. And no, a death ain’t equal a death. Someone dying because he got denied his medicine is horrible, but a couple of 23 years olds getting arrested, taken to a military building, tortured for weeks, then have the dude thrown from a plane from 2000 metres while the military waits for the wife to give birth in order to steal her baby and give it to infertile officers before throwing her into the sea also is really, really, really, really worse. Can’t you see it? Or is it “what the US system is already doing?” So that’s what a civil war looks like. Do you want that. Honestly, i am absolutely on the same side than you, but you make me angry, and so, i am out if there.
And no, a death ain’t equal a death. Someone dying because he got denied his medicine is horrible, but a couple of 23 years olds getting arrested, taken to a military building, tortured for weeks, then have the dude thrown from a plane from 2000 metres while the military waits for the wife to give birth in order to steal her baby and give it to infertile officers before throwing her into the sea also is really, really, really, really worse. Can’t you see it? Or is it “what the US system is already doing?”
I had an extremely negative reaction to chemo, I was in extreme pain for like four days before I got oxys to dull it, it felt like someone was driving an ice pick deep into the my jaw and up into my temple, it was some of the absolute worst pain I have ever felt in my life, and if it had gone on another day or two I would've bought a gun and blown my fucking brains out.
I got relief, eventually, other people often don't, they're left in limbo while their insurance decides if they feel like approving their claim for meds or surgery or whatever procedure they need to not be in agony.
Some of them die before it happens.
So no, I really don't think the things we're talking about are so incomparable, but hey, if you're fine with death and intense suffering so long as its not cinematic or whatever thats on you, but don't pretend like theres some grand difference between someone being tortured in a hospital bed and someone being tortured in a dark room. They're both torture.
Capitalism may make it seem like one is better because its been so normalized, because its more passive, but its still suffering and death and its preventable, but capitalism doesnt want to prevent it, capitalism dictates that letting these people suffer and die is actually the right thing to do.
If you don’t see the difference between what is happening in the US with healthcare acting like douches and what i am talking about, mate, there is nothing to talk about. I am talking about people being thrown alive from planes.
At some point i am powerless to make a point if you don’t at the very least make a little effort.
Yeah I'm the one not making any effort here.
Come back when you're willing to stop accepting unnecessary suffering and death just because its not compatible with a scene in an action movie.
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EPT
