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On September 30 2024 23:47 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2024 23:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
EnDeR_: "Trump called Harris mentally disabled."
oBlade: "Context is important. Trump said she was born that way."
What kind of contextual explanation is that, oBlade? It explains that he is using a comparison to call her even stupider than Biden, while honorably complimenting Biden on the fact that at least he managed to win votes, and he won a primary, whether Drumpf liked it or not, and had built up a base over decades. To me it seems like an interesting point because I do remember there was a time when Biden was able to differentiate an air strike and a labor strike. But I don't know that I've ever witnessed the same acuity from Harris.
Do you think that calling Kamala Harris mentally disabled is an accurate and appropriate way of making the point that you wish she would have won the nominee in a traditional primary format, like Biden had?
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He didn't call immigrants vile animals, he just called them animals and stone cold killers. He called Harris mentally impaired from birth, but that was to honorably complement Biden, who Trump has a respectful honorable past with. Forget the attempted insurrection.
You're delulu, oBlade. I can't even touch whatever's going on in your head.
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On September 30 2024 23:53 NewSunshine wrote:
He didn't call immigrants vile animals, he just called them animals and stone cold killers. He called Harris mentally impaired from birth, but that was to honorably complement Biden, who Trump has a respectful honorable past with. Forget the attempted insurrection.
You're delulu, oBlade. I can't even touch whatever's going on in your head.
Do you believe the murderers who have been let in are misunderstood? Lost souls? Tragic victims of circumstance? Just like you and me perhaps? Because that seems to me further from the truth. We can have a difference of opinion but let us know at least. Does calling murderers animals harm society? Are we allowed to know they are animals but not say it?
I don't mind or expect The Guardian not to editorialize but when you put quotation marks around something it should be what the person said, especially when the media prides itself so much on fact checking. He called Coronel Zarate a vile monster. I don't know Snopes' highest rating but I'd score that as pants-off-fire.
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Do you really not understand the point being made, or are you just being obtuse?
Because you seem to be argueing against something no one is saying, which seems kinda weird?
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Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On October 01 2024 00:15 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2024 23:53 NewSunshine wrote:
He didn't call immigrants vile animals, he just called them animals and stone cold killers. He called Harris mentally impaired from birth, but that was to honorably complement Biden, who Trump has a respectful honorable past with. Forget the attempted insurrection.
You're delulu, oBlade. I can't even touch whatever's going on in your head. Do you believe the murderers who have been let in are misunderstood? Lost souls? Tragic victims of circumstance? Just like you and me perhaps? Because that seems to me further from the truth. We can have a difference of opinion but let us know at least. Does calling murderers animals harm society? Are we allowed to know they are animals but not say it? I don't mind or expect The Guardian not to editorialize but when you put quotation marks around something it should be what the person said, especially when the media prides itself so much on fact checking. He called Coronel Zarate a vile monster. I don't know Snopes' highest rating but I'd score that as pants-off-fire.
Difference of opinion lmao
Yeah that’s the problem, just folks having a wee ideological disagreement. That’s the real issue
Trump could aggressively and non-consensually schlup your wife/S/O/you and you’d handwave it off as ‘hey he’s got a stressful life, gotta blow steam off somehow’
Your positioning is frequently just preposterous
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On September 30 2024 23:03 oBlade wrote:
He may be wrong though as apart from ICE, there's no evidence that there are 13,000 convicted murderer illegal aliens loose, or if so, they may all have been accidental non-bystanders who got caught up in being convicted of murder, rather than stone-cold killers.
Where is the "loose" coming from? So 13000 non-citizens were convicted of homicide and you are just assuming that all or most of them escaped their sentences? Maybe the words "detained" and "non-detained" in the report confused you (or more likely, the way the report was reported on in the rags you read), but those were strictly referring to their status in regards to ICE detention, not imprisonment in general.
It would also be useful to find out how many entered under which administration, to see if there's a statistically signifcant difference between Trump's administration and the others.
Unfortunately for you, Republicans aren't particularly incentivized to do anything other than rabble rouse about the issue that gives them the biggest electoral boost. They have no reason to pursue how many of those 13k are "running loose" or do anyting about it, since smaller numbers don't hit as viscerally and fixing things prevents them from extracting maximum political value from the situation.
I can't tell if you're falling for this shit out of naivety or whether your stance immigration rabble rousing is one of 'any publicity is good publicity'.
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On October 01 2024 00:15 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2024 23:53 NewSunshine wrote:
He didn't call immigrants vile animals, he just called them animals and stone cold killers. He called Harris mentally impaired from birth, but that was to honorably complement Biden, who Trump has a respectful honorable past with. Forget the attempted insurrection.
You're delulu, oBlade. I can't even touch whatever's going on in your head. Do you believe the murderers who have been let in are misunderstood? Lost souls? Tragic victims of circumstance? Just like you and me perhaps? Because that seems to me further from the truth. We can have a difference of opinion but let us know at least. Does calling murderers animals harm society? Are we allowed to know they are animals but not say it? I don't mind or expect The Guardian not to editorialize but when you put quotation marks around something it should be what the person said, especially when the media prides itself so much on fact checking. He called Coronel Zarate a vile monster. I don't know Snopes' highest rating but I'd score that as pants-off-fire.
Did you read and understand the quote from Trump that was supposed to "give him context"? From your own post? You have the nerve to use a signature like you do and then post brazenly ignorant shit like this. Back up and take a minute, I can't do your work for you.
He said immigrants that are coming in are all criminals and killers, and animals. First off, I would call a murderer a murderer. There's already a word for that. Calling them animals is exactly what it sounds like, it's dehumanizing. It's not hard to understand. There's enough history, including the Nazis, that shows concretely that dehumanization of the "other" is a key step on the path to even greater humanitarian atrocities, and enough rhetoric about how immigrants are "vermin" and "animals", that I do not accept your framing at all.
You're already jumping to the conclusion that all immigrants are criminals and murderers, and suffice to say I have a problem with rushing to that conclusion, including the notion that yes, it's a fucking racist assumption. And if you're telling me that you're basing this all on the good word of Donald Trump, then congratulations, you're his mark. Good luck to you.
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On October 01 2024 01:04 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2024 00:15 oBlade wrote:On September 30 2024 23:53 NewSunshine wrote:
He didn't call immigrants vile animals, he just called them animals and stone cold killers. He called Harris mentally impaired from birth, but that was to honorably complement Biden, who Trump has a respectful honorable past with. Forget the attempted insurrection.
You're delulu, oBlade. I can't even touch whatever's going on in your head. Do you believe the murderers who have been let in are misunderstood? Lost souls? Tragic victims of circumstance? Just like you and me perhaps? Because that seems to me further from the truth. We can have a difference of opinion but let us know at least. Does calling murderers animals harm society? Are we allowed to know they are animals but not say it? I don't mind or expect The Guardian not to editorialize but when you put quotation marks around something it should be what the person said, especially when the media prides itself so much on fact checking. He called Coronel Zarate a vile monster. I don't know Snopes' highest rating but I'd score that as pants-off-fire. He said immigrants that are coming in are all criminals and killers, and animals.
On October 01 2024 01:04 NewSunshine wrote:
all
Donald "Big Beautiful Door In That Wall So People Can Come In Legally" Trump doesn't seem to have said that, not in the quote I provided, nor the speech it came from. Maybe in The Guardian's reading of it. You can check if you like.
+ Show Spoiler +
Times he said "all" was when he said he would end "all" sanctuary cities, sheriffs "all" around the country are endorsing him, that Biden/Harris ended "all" his policies like remain in Mexico, safe third agreement, and Title 42, and halted the removal of virtually "all" criminal aliens, and that illegals and released aliens are "taking all of our black
population jobs and our Hispanic population jobs" (possibly another case of racism? wanting to keep minority communities oppressed by capitalism by securing their employment?).
On October 01 2024 01:04 NewSunshine wrote:
First off, I would call a murderer a murderer. There's already a word for that. Calling them animals is exactly what it sounds like, it's dehumanizing. It's not hard to understand. There's enough history, including the Nazis, that shows concretely that dehumanization of the "other" is a key step on the path to even greater humanitarian atrocities, and enough rhetoric about how immigrants are "vermin" and "animals", that I do not accept your framing at all.
I'm not so pessimistic as to believe this is hopeless - there must be some common ground we can arrive at somewhere.
![[image loading]](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PzlKjihuokY/hqdefault.jpg)
These are two men, they're white, they're US citizens, and they kidnapped a mother, robbed her, raped and killed her and her 2 daughters and burned their house down. Monsters? Animals? Vile? Jerks, perhaps, at least? What's the worst you would say about them?
On October 01 2024 01:04 NewSunshine wrote:
You're already jumping to the conclusion that all immigrants are criminals and murderers
You can interpret Drumpf ad libitum, that's up to you, but I definitely never said that.
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On October 01 2024 02:38 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2024 01:04 NewSunshine wrote:
First off, I would call a murderer a murderer. There's already a word for that. Calling them animals is exactly what it sounds like, it's dehumanizing. It's not hard to understand. There's enough history, including the Nazis, that shows concretely that dehumanization of the "other" is a key step on the path to even greater humanitarian atrocities, and enough rhetoric about how immigrants are "vermin" and "animals", that I do not accept your framing at all. I'm not so pessimistic as to believe this is hopeless - there must be some common ground we can arrive at somewhere. These are two men, they're white, they're US citizens, and they kidnapped a mother, robbed her, raped and killed her and her 2 daughters and burned their house down. Monsters? Animals? Vile? Jerks, perhaps, at least? What's the worst you would say about them?
I would call them rapists, arsonists, and murderers. I don't need to call them anything except what they are, because that stands on its own. I'm sorry if you expected more.
On October 01 2024 02:38 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2024 01:04 NewSunshine wrote:
You're already jumping to the conclusion that all immigrants are criminals and murderers You can interpret Drumpf ad libitum, that's up to you, but I definitely never said that.
You're quoting Trump who said that. If you want to be willfully stupid when you quoted him, that's your problem.
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Would you ever stoop to calling them bumbling fools?
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On October 01 2024 03:13 oBlade wrote:
Would you ever stoop to calling them bumbling fools?
Dude, what is your point. Why is namecalling so important to you that you need to figure out the exact limits of peoples namecalling?
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On October 01 2024 04:30 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2024 03:13 oBlade wrote:
Would you ever stoop to calling them bumbling fools? Dude, what is your point. Why is namecalling so important to you that you need to figure out the exact limits of peoples namecalling?
The fact that he's cherry picking the things he wants to argue, and attempts to support his arguments with quotes he hasn't read and doesn't understand, only to fall back and hope I'll join him in the mud where he likes it just shows what a waste of time it is to engage with him. He's shown his hand, he's an extremist who thinks immigrants should be held to a higher standard than other citizens and supports a White Supremacist "re-migration" regime to get them out.
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On October 01 2024 04:30 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2024 03:13 oBlade wrote:
Would you ever stoop to calling them bumbling fools? Dude, what is your point. Why is namecalling so important to you that you need to figure out the exact limits of peoples namecalling?
Might have something to do with being told it's racist to cross the line of calling poor brown and white murderers monsters, while the only guy you get a pass to make a negative judgment on is orange for some reason. Seemed important to probe the absurdity but I severely misremembered, it was "babbling moron" not "bumbling fool."
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On October 01 2024 05:14 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2024 04:30 Simberto wrote:On October 01 2024 03:13 oBlade wrote:
Would you ever stoop to calling them bumbling fools? Dude, what is your point. Why is namecalling so important to you that you need to figure out the exact limits of peoples namecalling? Might have something to do with being told it's racist to cross the line of calling poor brown and white murderers monsters, while the only guy you get a pass to make a negative judgment on is orange for some reason. Seemed important to probe the absurdity but I severely misremembered, it was "babbling moron" not "bumbling fool."
Did I dehumanize Trump? Or did I accurately describe his mental acuity and his rambling speech patterns? Don't equate me with you, especially when you can't even be bothered to get my words right the first time. Get lost.
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On September 29 2024 09:54 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2024 03:26 Sermokala wrote:
Its not really accurate to say that its Bidens fault that the immigration situation in cities has been a disaster when we all know that the republican governor of texas was more than happy to tell everyone he was specifically transporting people to those cities to cause these problems. He specifically did it in a way to cause maximum damage and made efforts to not coordinate or do anything to mitigate the damage that he caused trafficking human beings in order to score the political points BJ is now trying to brag about. Publishing "facts" about a group of criminals when you know full well that you love generalizing the problem to all central Americans being criminals is still a bad thing no matter how you try to ret-con how you wrapped it up.
We're not memory-holding events BJ you're just presenting them in bad faith. If you're trying to justify demonizing the many for the actions of a few you're justifying calling every conservative a nazi because some conservatives are nazi's. Whoops, someone is making some faulty assumptions (as usual). I've met many illegal immigrants in my life and most of them are good people that just want a better life. Nothing in my post indicates that because the fentanyl trade in SF is dominated by a group of Hondurans that I think all Central Americans are criminals or whatever stupid conclusion you're trying to draw. These are the kinds of logical leaps that you're used to making. I suspect your post is nothing more than projection because you are exactly the person that would generalize all conservatives as nazis or racists.
You should tell that to the guy who posted this
On September 28 2024 22:19 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2024 21:31 Sadist wrote:On September 28 2024 20:55 BlackJack wrote:On September 28 2024 17:41 Sadist wrote:On September 28 2024 12:29 BlackJack wrote:On September 27 2024 19:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 27 2024 19:17 BlackJack wrote:On September 27 2024 12:54 NewSunshine wrote:On September 27 2024 11:17 Fleetfeet wrote:On September 27 2024 09:46 micronesia wrote:[quote] Do these count? Because I actually could see it... ![[image loading]](https://candykitchen.com/cdn/shop/products/ck_assorted_swedish_fish-2508_2048x.jpg?v=1478030704) 100%. Swedes just out there being weird and eating gold fish. Shouting at each other in their bork de bork bork language. Lock ur fishbowls. I found this unreasonably funny. But yeah, talk about broad strokes, in any other context BJ would have a problem with the intellectual dishonesty involved in making too general a statement about this or that thing he feels like being contrarian about, but now that we're talking about illegal immigration, a subject where you have to bury your head in the sand to miss the latent racism, suddenly everyone is perfectly rational and unprejudiced, and nobody has an issue with people from different ethnicities and different walks of life, and all the problems they have with immigrants are all perfectly justified. Right-O! Obviously there are elements of xenophobia/racism/prejudice. The idea that everyone is perfectly rational and unprejudiced is a ridiculous strawman. The point is people want to argue that the reason people take issue with Biden's disastrous handling of the border is because they don't like black and brown people. It's as ridiculous as dismissing critics of Israel on anti-semitism. Obviously anti-semitism is something that exists and there are elements of that as well in foreign policy discussion but that's not the lion's share of what's happening. So what you get is people posting in the Palestine thread that the criticism of Israel is not about anti-semitism before racing over to the US politics thread to call people criticising immigration policy racists, with no sense of irony about it. The reason why people argue that is because the biggest headlines, created by many Republican leaders, are indeed nothing more than racist and xenophobic attacks on these immigrants (legal or illegal). Most conservative leaders are lying about what immigrants are doing to our country, simply labeling them as rapists and murderers and pet-stealers and pet-eaters and fundamentally evil human beings and being-smuggled-in-to-our-country-so-that-they-can-become-illegal-Democratic-voters. It's obvious fearmongering and hatemongering, and it's unjustified. If Trump and Vance and other Republicans had focused primarily on truthful concerns regarding negative impacts that immigrants may have on local economies (or whatever the real problems are), then the conversation would be about those. But those legitimate concerns rarely appear, because they aren't the usual sensationalist bullshit that goes viral with Trump and Fox News. In the middle of the discussion about Springfield I posted a graph showing that violent crime had more than doubled in Springfield since 2019 which was predictably ignored. There's lots of headlines about immigration and I doubt you're just getting the pet-eating ones. If you are you should broaden your reading material. Of course it's easiest to argue that Hatians aren't eating cats but it would be a refreshing change of pace if we went after each other's strongest arguments. If you want to agree that Biden's handling of the border is disastrous and also Trump is an old white racist asshole then I'm happy to do that as well. Theres no detail there in your springfield numbers. Did crime by haitians account for the doubling? What if it was crime AGAINST haitians? How do we know unless we have the details? How do we know it’s not the native Swedes committing grenade attacks against the immigrants? Im just saying the devils in the details. Crime going up and then blaming immigrants with no Pareto chart of whats actually happening is not cool Fair enough. How about the example I posted from my locality, the SFChronicle's expose that showed the majority of San Francisco's fentanyl dealers all come from the same small collection of villages in Honduras, where they use their drug money to build mansions in their hometown and emblazon the gates to their homes with the logos of SF sports teams? Show nested quote +San Francisco Mayor London Breed was called xenophobic and racist for saying last fall that “a lot” of the dealers are Honduran. She later apologized, saying it wasn’t her intention to single out one community or place the blame solely on them. Got her. That'll teach her not to say something factually accurate. Why do you think all the headlines I share to the thread about the disastrous consequences of Biden's border come from New York, SF, Chicago. They are blue cities with black mayors. It's like kryptonite to the people looking for the white supremacist to call racist or xenophobic. Btw, as for your request for more detailed statistics, not everyone thinks this is a good idea: Show nested quote +San Francisco Police Chief Bill Scott said there is no value in studying the demographics of potential offenders. “We do not consider race or nationality in how we police,” he said. “We focus on behavior. If we see someone selling drugs, we’re going to arrest them.” One of the drug dealers the Chronicle interviewed said he was arrested and deported 9 times over. But who's keeping count? Not the SFPD, apparently.
If you don't think that the fentanyl trade in SF is dominated by Hondurans you should have a problem when someone is quoted as saying most of the fent dealers are Hondurans. If you don't think all Central americans are criminals you should have a problem with those people whos objections to immigration is "not wanting their communities to be filled with central american drug dealers". I could go back and find your quote on this but you're the resident quote miner so I'll let you go and find that persons quote where they said that. It would do you good because you clearly forget to connect the narrative between your own posts and it would give you an opertunity to refresh yourself on your positions.
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On October 01 2024 05:17 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2024 05:14 oBlade wrote:On October 01 2024 04:30 Simberto wrote:On October 01 2024 03:13 oBlade wrote:
Would you ever stoop to calling them bumbling fools? Dude, what is your point. Why is namecalling so important to you that you need to figure out the exact limits of peoples namecalling? Might have something to do with being told it's racist to cross the line of calling poor brown and white murderers monsters, while the only guy you get a pass to make a negative judgment on is orange for some reason. Seemed important to probe the absurdity but I severely misremembered, it was "babbling moron" not "bumbling fool." Did I dehumanize Trump? Or did I accurately describe his mental acuity and his rambling speech patterns? Don't equate me with you, especially when you can't even be bothered to get my words right the first time. Get lost.
See to my eyes, and maybe I'm old-fashioned, most of the dehumanization of murderers and rapists happens by the murderers and rapists when they murder and rape, rather than the harsh words others might have for them later. But point taken. I'll move towards more neutral messaging of calling them things like "vile" then since that's just an adjective and not dehumanizing like animal or monster.
+ Show Spoiler +I of course have no problem with the "othering" of... rapists and murderers, or suggestion that they have no place in civilized society.
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On October 01 2024 05:32 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2024 05:17 NewSunshine wrote:On October 01 2024 05:14 oBlade wrote:On October 01 2024 04:30 Simberto wrote:On October 01 2024 03:13 oBlade wrote:
Would you ever stoop to calling them bumbling fools? Dude, what is your point. Why is namecalling so important to you that you need to figure out the exact limits of peoples namecalling? Might have something to do with being told it's racist to cross the line of calling poor brown and white murderers monsters, while the only guy you get a pass to make a negative judgment on is orange for some reason. Seemed important to probe the absurdity but I severely misremembered, it was "babbling moron" not "bumbling fool." Did I dehumanize Trump? Or did I accurately describe his mental acuity and his rambling speech patterns? Don't equate me with you, especially when you can't even be bothered to get my words right the first time. Get lost. See to my eyes, and maybe I'm old-fashioned, most of the dehumanization of murderers and rapists happens by the murderers and rapists when they murder and rape, rather than the harsh words others might have for them later. But point taken. I'll move towards more neutral messaging of calling them things like "vile" then since that's just an adjective and not dehumanizing like animal or monster.
Can we get you on record that you don't think all Illegal immigrants are Murders and rapeists? By the logic you're presenting you don't have a problem with the non murdering and raping migrants, and that the issue here is seperating those that are with those that aren't. The problem people have with MAGA is that they don't do this seperating and treat them all the same.
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On October 01 2024 05:32 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2024 05:17 NewSunshine wrote:On October 01 2024 05:14 oBlade wrote:On October 01 2024 04:30 Simberto wrote:On October 01 2024 03:13 oBlade wrote:
Would you ever stoop to calling them bumbling fools? Dude, what is your point. Why is namecalling so important to you that you need to figure out the exact limits of peoples namecalling? Might have something to do with being told it's racist to cross the line of calling poor brown and white murderers monsters, while the only guy you get a pass to make a negative judgment on is orange for some reason. Seemed important to probe the absurdity but I severely misremembered, it was "babbling moron" not "bumbling fool." Did I dehumanize Trump? Or did I accurately describe his mental acuity and his rambling speech patterns? Don't equate me with you, especially when you can't even be bothered to get my words right the first time. Get lost. See to my eyes, and maybe I'm old-fashioned, most of the dehumanization of murderers and rapists happens by the murderers and rapists when they murder and rape, rather than the harsh words others might have for them later. But point taken. I'll move towards more neutral messaging of calling them things like "vile" then since that's just an adjective and not dehumanizing like animal or monster. + Show Spoiler +I of course have no problem with the "othering" of... rapists and murderers, or suggestion that they have no place in civilized society.
Would you care to distinguish between a conversation about immigrants and a conversation about criminals? Because every single time with you, we start at immigrants and we end up at criminals. That border is very open for you.
Criminals are still a part of civilized society btw. That's what makes them criminals, and not outcasts. A person's debt to society is paid when they commit a crime and are charged with the appropriate sentence for the crime. They do the time, and their debt is paid. That's the deal. That's what makes society civilized. The fact that you're okay "othering" anyone says more about you than it does them.
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There is something to be said about the presumption of being innocent until proven guilty and that punishment that Cruel Inhuman or Degrading Treatment is bad. Its not something that is widly acepted it feels like and tbf we still treat prisoners in America on the same level as slaves undeserving of rights. It does feel weird for someone to want to other criminals but still be okay with someone like Trump who is a convicted felon and carries the legal distinction of being a rapist.
South Korea does have the death penalty and 60 people on death row but hasn't carried one out for 27 years this winter
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On October 01 2024 05:29 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2024 09:54 BlackJack wrote:On September 29 2024 03:26 Sermokala wrote:
Its not really accurate to say that its Bidens fault that the immigration situation in cities has been a disaster when we all know that the republican governor of texas was more than happy to tell everyone he was specifically transporting people to those cities to cause these problems. He specifically did it in a way to cause maximum damage and made efforts to not coordinate or do anything to mitigate the damage that he caused trafficking human beings in order to score the political points BJ is now trying to brag about. Publishing "facts" about a group of criminals when you know full well that you love generalizing the problem to all central Americans being criminals is still a bad thing no matter how you try to ret-con how you wrapped it up.
We're not memory-holding events BJ you're just presenting them in bad faith. If you're trying to justify demonizing the many for the actions of a few you're justifying calling every conservative a nazi because some conservatives are nazi's. Whoops, someone is making some faulty assumptions (as usual). I've met many illegal immigrants in my life and most of them are good people that just want a better life. Nothing in my post indicates that because the fentanyl trade in SF is dominated by a group of Hondurans that I think all Central Americans are criminals or whatever stupid conclusion you're trying to draw. These are the kinds of logical leaps that you're used to making. I suspect your post is nothing more than projection because you are exactly the person that would generalize all conservatives as nazis or racists. You should tell that to the guy who posted this Show nested quote +On September 28 2024 22:19 BlackJack wrote:On September 28 2024 21:31 Sadist wrote:On September 28 2024 20:55 BlackJack wrote:On September 28 2024 17:41 Sadist wrote:On September 28 2024 12:29 BlackJack wrote:On September 27 2024 19:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 27 2024 19:17 BlackJack wrote:On September 27 2024 12:54 NewSunshine wrote:On September 27 2024 11:17 Fleetfeet wrote:
[quote]
100%. Swedes just out there being weird and eating gold fish. Shouting at each other in their bork de bork bork language. Lock ur fishbowls.
I found this unreasonably funny. But yeah, talk about broad strokes, in any other context BJ would have a problem with the intellectual dishonesty involved in making too general a statement about this or that thing he feels like being contrarian about, but now that we're talking about illegal immigration, a subject where you have to bury your head in the sand to miss the latent racism, suddenly everyone is perfectly rational and unprejudiced, and nobody has an issue with people from different ethnicities and different walks of life, and all the problems they have with immigrants are all perfectly justified. Right-O! Obviously there are elements of xenophobia/racism/prejudice. The idea that everyone is perfectly rational and unprejudiced is a ridiculous strawman. The point is people want to argue that the reason people take issue with Biden's disastrous handling of the border is because they don't like black and brown people. It's as ridiculous as dismissing critics of Israel on anti-semitism. Obviously anti-semitism is something that exists and there are elements of that as well in foreign policy discussion but that's not the lion's share of what's happening. So what you get is people posting in the Palestine thread that the criticism of Israel is not about anti-semitism before racing over to the US politics thread to call people criticising immigration policy racists, with no sense of irony about it. The reason why people argue that is because the biggest headlines, created by many Republican leaders, are indeed nothing more than racist and xenophobic attacks on these immigrants (legal or illegal). Most conservative leaders are lying about what immigrants are doing to our country, simply labeling them as rapists and murderers and pet-stealers and pet-eaters and fundamentally evil human beings and being-smuggled-in-to-our-country-so-that-they-can-become-illegal-Democratic-voters. It's obvious fearmongering and hatemongering, and it's unjustified. If Trump and Vance and other Republicans had focused primarily on truthful concerns regarding negative impacts that immigrants may have on local economies (or whatever the real problems are), then the conversation would be about those. But those legitimate concerns rarely appear, because they aren't the usual sensationalist bullshit that goes viral with Trump and Fox News. In the middle of the discussion about Springfield I posted a graph showing that violent crime had more than doubled in Springfield since 2019 which was predictably ignored. There's lots of headlines about immigration and I doubt you're just getting the pet-eating ones. If you are you should broaden your reading material. Of course it's easiest to argue that Hatians aren't eating cats but it would be a refreshing change of pace if we went after each other's strongest arguments. If you want to agree that Biden's handling of the border is disastrous and also Trump is an old white racist asshole then I'm happy to do that as well. Theres no detail there in your springfield numbers. Did crime by haitians account for the doubling? What if it was crime AGAINST haitians? How do we know unless we have the details? How do we know it’s not the native Swedes committing grenade attacks against the immigrants? Im just saying the devils in the details. Crime going up and then blaming immigrants with no Pareto chart of whats actually happening is not cool Fair enough. How about the example I posted from my locality, the SFChronicle's expose that showed the majority of San Francisco's fentanyl dealers all come from the same small collection of villages in Honduras, where they use their drug money to build mansions in their hometown and emblazon the gates to their homes with the logos of SF sports teams? San Francisco Mayor London Breed was called xenophobic and racist for saying last fall that “a lot” of the dealers are Honduran. She later apologized, saying it wasn’t her intention to single out one community or place the blame solely on them. Got her. That'll teach her not to say something factually accurate. Why do you think all the headlines I share to the thread about the disastrous consequences of Biden's border come from New York, SF, Chicago. They are blue cities with black mayors. It's like kryptonite to the people looking for the white supremacist to call racist or xenophobic. Btw, as for your request for more detailed statistics, not everyone thinks this is a good idea: San Francisco Police Chief Bill Scott said there is no value in studying the demographics of potential offenders. “We do not consider race or nationality in how we police,” he said. “We focus on behavior. If we see someone selling drugs, we’re going to arrest them.” One of the drug dealers the Chronicle interviewed said he was arrested and deported 9 times over. But who's keeping count? Not the SFPD, apparently. If you don't think that the fentanyl trade in SF is dominated by Hondurans you should have a problem when someone is quoted as saying most of the fent dealers are Hondurans. If you don't think all Central americans are criminals you should have a problem with those people whos objections to immigration is "not wanting their communities to be filled with central american drug dealers". I could go back and find your quote on this but you're the resident quote miner so I'll let you go and find that persons quote where they said that. It would do you good because you clearly forget to connect the narrative between your own posts and it would give you an opertunity to refresh yourself on your positions.
The SF fentanyl trade IS dominated by Hondurans. Did you even read the article I linked? Nowhere does that imply that all Central Americans are fentanyl dealers. The problem is you can't grasp logic that even kindergarteners are capable of grasping. A 5 year old can learn something like "All Lions are cats but not all cats are lions." But that's way too deep for you. So if you see someone taking issue with the Honduran drug dealers in San Francisco you surmise "So you think all Central Americans are criminals" because to you that's a perfectly logical extrapolation.
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