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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
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On July 11 2018 02:46 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2018 02:44 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:43 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:41 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:36 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:29 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:27 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:15 JimmiC wrote:[quote] I'm not sure he was such a great guy. + Show Spoiler +Red Terror was a period of political repression and executions carried out by Bolsheviks after the beginning of the Russian Civil War in 1918. During this period, the political police, the Cheka had conducted summary executions of tens of thousands of "enemies of the people".[96][97][98][99] Many victims were 'bourgeois hostages' rounded up and held in readiness for summary execution in reprisal for any alleged counter-revolutionary provocation.[100] Many were put to death during and after the suppression of revolts, such as the Kronstadt rebellion and the Tambov Rebellion. Professor Donald Rayfield claims that "the repression that followed the rebellions in Kronstadt and Tambov alone resulted in tens of thousands of executions."[101] A large number of Orthodox clergymen were also killed.[102][103]
The policy of decossackization amounted to an attempt by Soviet leaders to "eliminate, exterminate, and deport the population of a whole territory," according to Nicolas Werth.[104] In the early months of 1919, some 10,000 to 12,000 Cossacks were executed[105][106] and many more deported after their villages were razed to the ground.[107] According to historian Michael Kort, "During 1919 and 1920, out of a population of approximately 1.5 million Don Cossacks, the Bolshevik regime killed or deported an estimated 300,000 to 500,000".[108] I'm not a Trump or Clinton person myself either but I do prefer a system of government that keeps people from rounding up people and executing them based on anything. lol... You remember how that all started? No I don't I was not born yet, nor am I from Russia. But I have read about it yes. And I don't think that going in, rounding up the people doing shitty stuff and killing them all is justified. Like right now I wouldn't want some group to go into Venezuela round up all of Maduro's friends, family, their families and murder them all. I meant remember as in you didn't just google that and copy paste it. Like you actually studied that history at some point before this conversation. Because it doesn't seem like you did. It seems like you're oblivious that you're talking about a civil war or are completely unaware of how warfare was executed in the early 1900's. It more like if a person claims they are a socialist you are willing to either justify or pretend that they didn't do anything horrible despite the incredible mountains of evidence otherwise. Yup, #1 Hitler defender right here lol. Stallin was just as bad, if you are talking pure numbers he was worse, and you are his #1 defender at least on this forum. Sooo if a person claims they are a socialist you are willing to either justify or pretend that they didn't do anything horrible despite the incredible mountains of evidence otherwise. that's not accurate is it? How is it not? lol it's pretty simple, Hitler called himself a socialist, I am not willing to justify or pretend he didn't do anything horrible. How can you not understand that?
It likely because you said Lenin was preferable to Clinton or Trump. They both occupied the same government structure and were both very bad people.
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On July 11 2018 02:50 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2018 02:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:44 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:43 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:41 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:36 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:29 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:27 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
lol...
You remember how that all started? No I don't I was not born yet, nor am I from Russia. But I have read about it yes. And I don't think that going in, rounding up the people doing shitty stuff and killing them all is justified. Like right now I wouldn't want some group to go into Venezuela round up all of Maduro's friends, family, their families and murder them all. I meant remember as in you didn't just google that and copy paste it. Like you actually studied that history at some point before this conversation. Because it doesn't seem like you did. It seems like you're oblivious that you're talking about a civil war or are completely unaware of how warfare was executed in the early 1900's. It more like if a person claims they are a socialist you are willing to either justify or pretend that they didn't do anything horrible despite the incredible mountains of evidence otherwise. Yup, #1 Hitler defender right here lol. Stallin was just as bad, if you are talking pure numbers he was worse, and you are his #1 defender at least on this forum. Sooo if a person claims they are a socialist you are willing to either justify or pretend that they didn't do anything horrible despite the incredible mountains of evidence otherwise. that's not accurate is it? How is it not? lol it's pretty simple, Hitler called himself a socialist, I am not willing to justify or pretend he didn't do anything horrible. How can you not understand that? It likely because you said Lenin was preferable to Clinton or Trump. They both occupied the same government structure and were both very bad people.
That doesn't make any sense to me. I'm not sure if it's that I'm tired, the sentence structure, or what you're trying to say but I can't figure out what that has to do with anything.
On July 11 2018 02:54 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2018 02:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:44 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:43 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:41 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:36 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:29 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:27 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
lol...
You remember how that all started? No I don't I was not born yet, nor am I from Russia. But I have read about it yes. And I don't think that going in, rounding up the people doing shitty stuff and killing them all is justified. Like right now I wouldn't want some group to go into Venezuela round up all of Maduro's friends, family, their families and murder them all. I meant remember as in you didn't just google that and copy paste it. Like you actually studied that history at some point before this conversation. Because it doesn't seem like you did. It seems like you're oblivious that you're talking about a civil war or are completely unaware of how warfare was executed in the early 1900's. It more like if a person claims they are a socialist you are willing to either justify or pretend that they didn't do anything horrible despite the incredible mountains of evidence otherwise. Yup, #1 Hitler defender right here lol. Stallin was just as bad, if you are talking pure numbers he was worse, and you are his #1 defender at least on this forum. Sooo if a person claims they are a socialist you are willing to either justify or pretend that they didn't do anything horrible despite the incredible mountains of evidence otherwise. that's not accurate is it? How is it not? lol it's pretty simple, Hitler called himself a socialist, I am not willing to justify or pretend he didn't do anything horrible. How can you not understand that? Pretty sure everyone in the world considers Hitler a fascist and not a socialist. This is just another example of you dodging your love of stallin and the other socialist dictators that did horrible things. You willing to not defend Hitler does not make your willingness to defend Stallin any better.
lol, bro it's not about what people think of them/what they do, it's about what they call themselves remember!?? haha.
Alright... You've repeated this bullshit long enough for other people to start repeating it. You want to quote some examples of my great love affair with Stalin?
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On July 11 2018 02:54 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2018 02:50 Plansix wrote:On July 11 2018 02:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:44 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:43 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:41 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:36 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:29 JimmiC wrote:
[quote]
No I don't I was not born yet, nor am I from Russia. But I have read about it yes. And I don't think that going in, rounding up the people doing shitty stuff and killing them all is justified. Like right now I wouldn't want some group to go into Venezuela round up all of Maduro's friends, family, their families and murder them all. I meant remember as in you didn't just google that and copy paste it. Like you actually studied that history at some point before this conversation. Because it doesn't seem like you did. It seems like you're oblivious that you're talking about a civil war or are completely unaware of how warfare was executed in the early 1900's. It more like if a person claims they are a socialist you are willing to either justify or pretend that they didn't do anything horrible despite the incredible mountains of evidence otherwise. Yup, #1 Hitler defender right here lol. Stallin was just as bad, if you are talking pure numbers he was worse, and you are his #1 defender at least on this forum. Sooo if a person claims they are a socialist you are willing to either justify or pretend that they didn't do anything horrible despite the incredible mountains of evidence otherwise. that's not accurate is it? How is it not? lol it's pretty simple, Hitler called himself a socialist, I am not willing to justify or pretend he didn't do anything horrible. How can you not understand that? It likely because you said Lenin was preferable to Clinton or Trump. They both occupied the same government structure and were both very bad people. That doesn't make any sense to me. I'm not sure if it's that I'm tired, the sentence structure, or what you're trying to say but I can't figure out what that has to do with anything.
Sorry. Lenin and Stalin both occupied the same government and were both terrible people. Like in the running for the list of worst people in the 20th century.
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On July 11 2018 02:58 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2018 02:54 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:50 Plansix wrote:On July 11 2018 02:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:44 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:43 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:41 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:36 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
I meant remember as in you didn't just google that and copy paste it. Like you actually studied that history at some point before this conversation.
Because it doesn't seem like you did. It seems like you're oblivious that you're talking about a civil war or are completely unaware of how warfare was executed in the early 1900's. It more like if a person claims they are a socialist you are willing to either justify or pretend that they didn't do anything horrible despite the incredible mountains of evidence otherwise. Yup, #1 Hitler defender right here lol. Stallin was just as bad, if you are talking pure numbers he was worse, and you are his #1 defender at least on this forum. Sooo if a person claims they are a socialist you are willing to either justify or pretend that they didn't do anything horrible despite the incredible mountains of evidence otherwise. that's not accurate is it? How is it not? lol it's pretty simple, Hitler called himself a socialist, I am not willing to justify or pretend he didn't do anything horrible. How can you not understand that? It likely because you said Lenin was preferable to Clinton or Trump. They both occupied the same government structure and were both very bad people. That doesn't make any sense to me. I'm not sure if it's that I'm tired, the sentence structure, or what you're trying to say but I can't figure out what that has to do with anything. Sorry. Lenin and Stalin both occupied the same government and were both terrible people. Like in the running for the list of worst people in the 20th century.
By what measure was Lenin not better than his contemporary international peers?
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GreenHorizons: I don't think you can create a stable society in just socialism. You need a distinct 33% split between socialism, liberalism and conservatism in government representation if you have a large 300 million plus multi-cultural multi-state society like the US or EU or large diverse places like Russia, China and India.
Full-blown socialism would have to take into account every input, process and output to create a stable society. Or it would end up economically unstable and repressive like the Soviet Union that didn't allow for liberalism (and, I believe, rooted out a lot of conservative traditionalists -- aka religion -- in the early 20th century?). It just doesn't work.
Right now the representation in the US is like 40% liberal and 50% conservative. I don't think that's ever really been any different. But you don't need to go all the way into 60%+ socialist representation to break the oppression both inside and out.
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On July 11 2018 02:11 GreenHorizons wrote:
I'd take Lenin over Trump or Clinton 100 out of 100 times.
We need to memorialize this post for all time, as it provides perfect context for everything that GH has posted around here.
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On July 11 2018 03:00 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2018 02:58 Plansix wrote:On July 11 2018 02:54 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:50 Plansix wrote:On July 11 2018 02:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:44 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:43 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:41 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:36 JimmiC wrote:
[quote]
It more like if a person claims they are a socialist you are willing to either justify or pretend that they didn't do anything horrible despite the incredible mountains of evidence otherwise. Yup, #1 Hitler defender right here lol. Stallin was just as bad, if you are talking pure numbers he was worse, and you are his #1 defender at least on this forum. Sooo if a person claims they are a socialist you are willing to either justify or pretend that they didn't do anything horrible despite the incredible mountains of evidence otherwise. that's not accurate is it? How is it not? lol it's pretty simple, Hitler called himself a socialist, I am not willing to justify or pretend he didn't do anything horrible. How can you not understand that? It likely because you said Lenin was preferable to Clinton or Trump. They both occupied the same government structure and were both very bad people. That doesn't make any sense to me. I'm not sure if it's that I'm tired, the sentence structure, or what you're trying to say but I can't figure out what that has to do with anything. Sorry. Lenin and Stalin both occupied the same government and were both terrible people. Like in the running for the list of worst people in the 20th century. By what measure was Lenin not better than his contemporary international peers?
He wasn’t. He was power hungry revolutionary that overthrew powerful monarchs. It’s just one group of assholes overthrowing another group of assholes.
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On July 11 2018 03:01 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2018 02:11 GreenHorizons wrote:
I'd take Lenin over Trump or Clinton 100 out of 100 times. We need to memorialize this post for all time, as it provides perfect context for everything that GH has posted around here.
It gets an award in the BOUSPOL for 2018 that's for sure.
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When I was talking about enjoying the exposure of GH's Bolshevism a few days ago, I thought I was just joking. I didn't realize it was quite literal.
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On July 11 2018 03:02 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2018 03:00 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:58 Plansix wrote:On July 11 2018 02:54 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:50 Plansix wrote:On July 11 2018 02:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:44 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:43 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:41 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:39 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
Yup, #1 Hitler defender right here lol. Stallin was just as bad, if you are talking pure numbers he was worse, and you are his #1 defender at least on this forum. Sooo if a person claims they are a socialist you are willing to either justify or pretend that they didn't do anything horrible despite the incredible mountains of evidence otherwise. that's not accurate is it? How is it not? lol it's pretty simple, Hitler called himself a socialist, I am not willing to justify or pretend he didn't do anything horrible. How can you not understand that? It likely because you said Lenin was preferable to Clinton or Trump. They both occupied the same government structure and were both very bad people. That doesn't make any sense to me. I'm not sure if it's that I'm tired, the sentence structure, or what you're trying to say but I can't figure out what that has to do with anything. Sorry. Lenin and Stalin both occupied the same government and were both terrible people. Like in the running for the list of worst people in the 20th century. By what measure was Lenin not better than his contemporary international peers? He wasn’t. He was power hungry revolutionary that overthrew powerful monarchs. It’s just one group of assholes overthrowing another group of assholes.
Notwithstanding your characterization, you're list sounds pretty pointless if everyone is on it.
In the never-ending cycle of assholes overthrowing assholes he's one of the better ones, not making some list of (everyone) the worst.
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On July 11 2018 02:54 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2018 02:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:44 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:43 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:41 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:36 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:29 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:27 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
lol...
You remember how that all started? No I don't I was not born yet, nor am I from Russia. But I have read about it yes. And I don't think that going in, rounding up the people doing shitty stuff and killing them all is justified. Like right now I wouldn't want some group to go into Venezuela round up all of Maduro's friends, family, their families and murder them all. I meant remember as in you didn't just google that and copy paste it. Like you actually studied that history at some point before this conversation. Because it doesn't seem like you did. It seems like you're oblivious that you're talking about a civil war or are completely unaware of how warfare was executed in the early 1900's. It more like if a person claims they are a socialist you are willing to either justify or pretend that they didn't do anything horrible despite the incredible mountains of evidence otherwise. Yup, #1 Hitler defender right here lol. Stallin was just as bad, if you are talking pure numbers he was worse, and you are his #1 defender at least on this forum. Sooo if a person claims they are a socialist you are willing to either justify or pretend that they didn't do anything horrible despite the incredible mountains of evidence otherwise. that's not accurate is it? How is it not? lol it's pretty simple, Hitler called himself a socialist, I am not willing to justify or pretend he didn't do anything horrible. How can you not understand that? Pretty sure everyone in the world considers Hitler a fascist and not a socialist. This is just another example of you dodging your love of stallin and the other socialist dictators that did horrible things. You willing to not defend Hitler does not make your willingness to defend Stallin any better.
You haven't talked to Americans who think Hitler was a socialist.
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On July 11 2018 03:08 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2018 02:54 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:44 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:43 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:41 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:36 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2018 02:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 02:29 JimmiC wrote:
[quote]
No I don't I was not born yet, nor am I from Russia. But I have read about it yes. And I don't think that going in, rounding up the people doing shitty stuff and killing them all is justified. Like right now I wouldn't want some group to go into Venezuela round up all of Maduro's friends, family, their families and murder them all. I meant remember as in you didn't just google that and copy paste it. Like you actually studied that history at some point before this conversation. Because it doesn't seem like you did. It seems like you're oblivious that you're talking about a civil war or are completely unaware of how warfare was executed in the early 1900's. It more like if a person claims they are a socialist you are willing to either justify or pretend that they didn't do anything horrible despite the incredible mountains of evidence otherwise. Yup, #1 Hitler defender right here lol. Stallin was just as bad, if you are talking pure numbers he was worse, and you are his #1 defender at least on this forum. Sooo if a person claims they are a socialist you are willing to either justify or pretend that they didn't do anything horrible despite the incredible mountains of evidence otherwise. that's not accurate is it? How is it not? lol it's pretty simple, Hitler called himself a socialist, I am not willing to justify or pretend he didn't do anything horrible. How can you not understand that? Pretty sure everyone in the world considers Hitler a fascist and not a socialist. This is just another example of you dodging your love of stallin and the other socialist dictators that did horrible things. You willing to not defend Hitler does not make your willingness to defend Stallin any better. You haven't talked to Americans who think Hitler was a socialist.
I mean...
It's not like it's a couple wacko's on a street corner
I expect to hear a lot of "Hitler was a socialist" going into 2020 as well.
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On July 11 2018 03:06 xDaunt wrote:
When I was talking about enjoying the exposure of GH's Bolshevism a few days ago, I thought I was just joking. I didn't realize it was quite literal.
It is a combination of overwhelming confidence in his positions and a lackluster understanding of world history. It is both impressive and unassailable.
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I wonder if I should literally just start donating to the various Patreons accounts for far-left activists that I've found in places like Iowa, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. I'd be my own little hostile foreign agency colluding to overthrow the US government. It would be worth it just for the coolness factor.
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On July 11 2018 03:12 a_flayer wrote:
I wonder if I should literally just start donating to the various Patreons accounts for far-left activists that I've found in places like Iowa, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. I'd be my own little hostile foreign agency colluding to overthrow the US government. It would be worth it just for the coolness factor.
Could you PM some of those to me? I like to keep my options open
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On July 11 2018 03:11 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2018 03:06 xDaunt wrote:
When I was talking about enjoying the exposure of GH's Bolshevism a few days ago, I thought I was just joking. I didn't realize it was quite literal. It is a combination of overwhelming confidence in his positions and a lackluster understanding of world history. It is both impressive and unassailable.
Surely, you could point out an example of this lackluster understanding of world history rather than just assert it with overwhelming confidence?
On July 11 2018 03:13 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2018 03:12 a_flayer wrote:
I wonder if I should literally just start donating to the various Patreons accounts for far-left activists that I've found in places like Iowa, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. I'd be my own little hostile foreign agency colluding to overthrow the US government. It would be worth it just for the coolness factor. Could you PM some of those to me? I like to keep my options open
NOT Chapo lol
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On July 11 2018 03:15 GreenHorizons wrote:
NOT Chapo lol
=)
I kind of like Chapo sometimes as long as you know what you're in for. This bit is so, so good:
+ Show Spoiler +
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On July 11 2018 03:15 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2018 03:11 Plansix wrote:On July 11 2018 03:06 xDaunt wrote:
When I was talking about enjoying the exposure of GH's Bolshevism a few days ago, I thought I was just joking. I didn't realize it was quite literal. It is a combination of overwhelming confidence in his positions and a lackluster understanding of world history. It is both impressive and unassailable. Surely, you could point out an example of this lackluster understanding of world history rather than just assert it with overwhelming confidence?
I don’t think I’m going to be teaching you a 200 level 20th century Russian history courses for free just to prove that you would really not prefer Lenin over Clinton. Not really sure what I get out of it given your general attitude during this entire discussion.
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On July 11 2018 03:21 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2018 03:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 11 2018 03:11 Plansix wrote:On July 11 2018 03:06 xDaunt wrote:
When I was talking about enjoying the exposure of GH's Bolshevism a few days ago, I thought I was just joking. I didn't realize it was quite literal. It is a combination of overwhelming confidence in his positions and a lackluster understanding of world history. It is both impressive and unassailable. Surely, you could point out an example of this lackluster understanding of world history rather than just assert it with overwhelming confidence? I don’t think I’m going to be teaching you a 200 level 20th century Russian history courses for free just to prove that you would really not prefer Lenin over Clinton. Not really sure what I get out of it given your general attitude during this entire discussion.
It appears you wont be teaching anyone anything and merely relying on your declaration of Lenin being one of the worst people of the 20th century along with all of his contemporary peers and the presumption of the ongoing theme that Hillary is less bad, which we would disagree on, even ignoring that Lenin lived in a different time and place.
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EPT
