US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4158

On March 09 2024 03:18 Liquid`Drone wrote:


There were actually some socialists in the NSDAP early on, but hitler sure as fuck wasnt one, and they were largely murdered (on hitler's command) during the night of long knives in 1934.

On March 09 2024 02:08 sevencck wrote:


I bet there's a huge overlap between people who thought it was ok to coerce people to take a vaccine and those who recognize Trump as a Nazi. Like I said, shadow projection.

On March 09 2024 02:31 sevencck wrote:


Explaining this to you will not be easy, but I will try. My point is that the way you see Trump is shadow projection because you have not befriended your inner tyrant. Coercing vaccines is therefore relevant to the discussion. You expect people to take seriously your concerns of authoritarianism, but are fine firing people who do not wish to submit themselves for a state vaccine experiment.

Thank you for proving my point. I'd be grateful if the others who think Trump is a Nazi would tell me how they felt about the vaccines.

On March 09 2024 03:41 BlackJack wrote:


There are people here that literally wanted to round people up and banish them from society either into camps or islands or whatever. You would think everyone would be outraged at such a suggestion but the pushback was mild at best. But it’s ok because they “just want you to be healthy.”

On March 08 2024 15:05 Simberto wrote:


Oh, this seems like a fun game. If he starts talking about Lebensraum for the american people, he clearly just means that people deserve a nice living room and wants to show off his German skills.

And if he asks if you want the total war, he clearly just means the newest game by creative assembly.

If you say Nazi shit, people start believing that you are a Nazi. It takes willing disbelief to not hear the Nazi shit Trump says.

On March 09 2024 03:52 oBlade wrote:

We've heard these ululations from the same factions for 2 years before Trump was elected, and 4 years while he was president, and yet it has never come to pass. We heard it with every other Republican whether they won or lost. There simply is no Nazification of the US. "Total war" - He involved the US in no new wars for 4 years. Anyone in the reasonable center who lived history now has proof by experience that this is just slanderous delusion from a faction that can't tolerate disagreement with itself, and at the same time seems to hate the idea of and indeed the very existence of the country and system that it derides no matter how many people of its own side it manages to elect. Having laws isn't Nazism. Protecting and maintaining your own country isn't Nazism. Crying wolf has run its course.

On March 09 2024 04:15 JimmiC wrote:

That you include Hitler and Mussolini in as Left shows you don't remotely understand the term. Left just means evil to you the way capitalism means evil to GH.

On March 09 2024 03:41 BlackJack wrote:


There are people here that literally wanted to round people up and banish them from society either into camps or islands or whatever. You would think everyone would be outraged at such a suggestion but the pushback was mild at best. But it’s ok because they “just want you to be healthy.”

On March 09 2024 03:38 sevencck wrote:


Hitler's rise should be understood in its historical context, namely that the market was increasingly considered an outdated model for economic coordination and the future would be about state coordination and control of the means of production. There was always going to be disagreement about how that control was meant to be instantiated. Yes, Hitler purged members of his party who had other ideas about how the means were to be controlled. So did Mussolini. So did Stalin. Trotsky was bumped off, along with millions of other Russians. This is all intra-left dispute, namely how best to control and manage the means of production, it is not an argument relevant to authentic right-wing politics, of which Mises, Hayek, Friedman, etc. were good examples. Classical liberalism does not occupy itself with how best to control the means of production (and therefore doesn't butcher each other over disagreements).

On March 09 2024 04:22 Liquid`Drone wrote:


I'll extend you a branch for which to pull yourself out of this because I think you're being genuine, and ignorance is no crime.

Hitler was not a socialist. Full stop. He was also not a traditional right-wing capitalist like Hayek and Friedman, but he was also far from a socialist. Traditional right wing capitalists in Europe during the 30s had a tendency to be somewhat favorable towards Hitler's regime - because they considered him a bulwark against actual socialism - which they feared much more. The one political ideology (not 'race' or 'group of people') whose adherents were most likely to fight against Hitler and most likely to be killed by nazis were socialists/communists - not right wing capitalists. The notion that Hitler was a socialist is flat out wrong, and you can concede this point without it affecting your overall argument: conceding this point does not 'pin Hitler on you'. With you mentioning Mises, I'm inclined to believe you are a libertarian-leaning dude, and hey, you know what? Hitler wasn't a libertarian-leaning dude at all.

That said: When people compare Trump to Hitler, they're not comparing their economic policies. They are, indeed, looking at statements like 'All great cultures of the past perished only because the originally creative race died out from blood poisoning' and thinking oh, that's not that different from 'immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country'.

That also said - I don't think Trump is like Hitler. Hitler was a genuine believer, Trump is only in it for personal power. Now, I do believe he's at the very least fascist-y, but not really because he's into fascism as a political ideology, but because he's into personal power, and fascism is the ideology that to the greatest extent consolidates power to the individual at top. I don't think Trump wants to live in a fascist society where he isn't on top any more than he wants to live in a liberal democracy where he isn't on top, but if he's the president, then he wants to get rid of all the checks and balances found in a liberal democracy because they check his power.

I'm also not afraid of Trump waging war against the world, but I am afraid that he will align himself with fellow strongman dictators and allow those to wage war unchecked. He's basically stated that that's what he would do. And while I don't think he himself believes in nazi race war bullshit, he has recognized that courting nazis is politically viable because apparently the US had more non-voting nazis who finally found a home than they had republicans who would find his rhetoric sufficiently distasteful to abandon the republican party.

On March 09 2024 04:19 sevencck wrote:


You don't understand what you're talking about, and I do not wish to explain it to you further. You need to read and study a subject before you profess your expertise to the world.

On March 09 2024 04:20 WombaT wrote:

I mean there was plenty of pushback and it’s a bloke on TL spitballing hypotheticals, hardly equivalent to a much larger direction of travel on a national level.

It’s been a few years and folks from all across the aisles are still remarkably pious and cocksure on the topic. End of the day it was an emergent, ever-changing scenario and there legitimately were no guaranteed good solutions that wouldn’t have some negative consequences in some sphere.

Not that I even think attitudes to personal liberty in the instance of a virus of this kind, or aliens turn up in their saucers to invade is all that comparable to some of the other issues being discussed here.

On March 09 2024 04:19 sevencck wrote:


You don't understand what you're talking about, and I do not wish to explain it to you further. You need to read and study a subject before you profess your expertise to the world.

On March 09 2024 04:39 Broetchenholer wrote:


Duuuude! You know who got rich in Nazi Germany? Nazi Germany industrials. Hitler started on a populist platform to give state money to war widows and wanted to have more control over industry, but not by socialist policies but instead by race ideology. His economic policies were more left wing then a economic libertarian, that does not make him left wing though. And acting as if comparisons to hitler are only about his economic policies as a statesman, makes it sound you believe the only thing bad about hitler was that he wasn't a libertarian, which is, to put it mildly the worst take ever.

On March 09 2024 04:38 BlackJack wrote:


Although most people were along the lines of “you should lose your job and not be allowed into businesses” levels of coercion there were also multiple people that believed in “mandatory” vaccines. I.e. no opt out permitted at all and presumably enforcer under threat of imprisonment or banishment.

The whole “it was an emergent situation” is not a good excuse for me. That’s precisely the time when personal liberties get trampled on. Nobody is opening up the interment camps if WW2 didn’t happen.

On March 09 2024 04:46 Broetchenholer wrote:


All that only hinges on your definition of coercion. The state also coerces you to do a drivers license if you want to drive a car, even though not being allowed to drive gives you a ridiculous disadvantage on the american job market. They also coerce you to not murder people by putting you into jail just for trying. You can argue how high you rank the damage to society not being vaccinated for covid and if that warrants a coercion by society or not, but you can not act as if there is no ground whatsoever for coercion by the state to protect it's citizens.