|
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On December 22 2023 11:56 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2023 10:29 BlackJack wrote:On December 22 2023 02:32 Zambrah wrote:
Biden can totally beat Trump, I think its even likely if something happens to give him a little burst of support around election time. Gas prices getting to pre-pandemic levels, something meaningful to QoL for people alongside people's general distaste of Trump.
Ill beat the turnout drum again, as long as turnout isn't depressed I think Biden will win.
Dunno how scabbed over people's feelings are about Trump, his nazi ass comments lately might help keep turnout from being depressed if he keeps making them though. 14,509 immigrants encountered at the border in 1 day this week, setting a new record. These are the same migrants that the Democratic mayors of Chicago and New York are saying are destroying their cities. Eric Adams blames the Biden administration for the predicament the are in.. Meanwhile you can't even go into a store anymore and get some razor blades off the shelf without asking a store associate to open the locked case they keep them in. Some stores are installing security gates inside of the store due to rampant theft. Homelessness is up. Crime is up. Our once great cities are turning to shit. If you think Biden can win this election with a QoL argument I'm afraid he's SoL. But hey, gas prices are coming down a bit. You’re listing a series of disconnected grievances that have nothing to do with Biden and won’t be fixed by Trump. It makes you sound like you’re unable to string thoughts together in a coherent way.
Says the guy who blamed Trump for the toilet paper shortage during COVID. I guess the president has more control over paper supply lines than securing the border.
|
United States41383 Posts
On December 22 2023 12:21 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2023 11:56 KwarK wrote:On December 22 2023 10:29 BlackJack wrote:On December 22 2023 02:32 Zambrah wrote:
Biden can totally beat Trump, I think its even likely if something happens to give him a little burst of support around election time. Gas prices getting to pre-pandemic levels, something meaningful to QoL for people alongside people's general distaste of Trump.
Ill beat the turnout drum again, as long as turnout isn't depressed I think Biden will win.
Dunno how scabbed over people's feelings are about Trump, his nazi ass comments lately might help keep turnout from being depressed if he keeps making them though. 14,509 immigrants encountered at the border in 1 day this week, setting a new record. These are the same migrants that the Democratic mayors of Chicago and New York are saying are destroying their cities. Eric Adams blames the Biden administration for the predicament the are in.. Meanwhile you can't even go into a store anymore and get some razor blades off the shelf without asking a store associate to open the locked case they keep them in. Some stores are installing security gates inside of the store due to rampant theft. Homelessness is up. Crime is up. Our once great cities are turning to shit. If you think Biden can win this election with a QoL argument I'm afraid he's SoL. But hey, gas prices are coming down a bit. You’re listing a series of disconnected grievances that have nothing to do with Biden and won’t be fixed by Trump. It makes you sound like you’re unable to string thoughts together in a coherent way. Says the guy who blamed Trump for the toilet paper shortage during COVID. I guess the president has more control over paper supply lines than securing the border.
The toilet paper thing was just an example of the apparent inability of conservatives to remember what the Trump presidency was actually like. It was a weird four years, and not good weird. But if you think neither are good examples then so be it, as long as you’re good with yours not being good.
|
On December 22 2023 12:30 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2023 12:21 BlackJack wrote:On December 22 2023 11:56 KwarK wrote:On December 22 2023 10:29 BlackJack wrote:On December 22 2023 02:32 Zambrah wrote:
Biden can totally beat Trump, I think its even likely if something happens to give him a little burst of support around election time. Gas prices getting to pre-pandemic levels, something meaningful to QoL for people alongside people's general distaste of Trump.
Ill beat the turnout drum again, as long as turnout isn't depressed I think Biden will win.
Dunno how scabbed over people's feelings are about Trump, his nazi ass comments lately might help keep turnout from being depressed if he keeps making them though. 14,509 immigrants encountered at the border in 1 day this week, setting a new record. These are the same migrants that the Democratic mayors of Chicago and New York are saying are destroying their cities. Eric Adams blames the Biden administration for the predicament the are in.. Meanwhile you can't even go into a store anymore and get some razor blades off the shelf without asking a store associate to open the locked case they keep them in. Some stores are installing security gates inside of the store due to rampant theft. Homelessness is up. Crime is up. Our once great cities are turning to shit. If you think Biden can win this election with a QoL argument I'm afraid he's SoL. But hey, gas prices are coming down a bit. You’re listing a series of disconnected grievances that have nothing to do with Biden and won’t be fixed by Trump. It makes you sound like you’re unable to string thoughts together in a coherent way. Says the guy who blamed Trump for the toilet paper shortage during COVID. I guess the president has more control over paper supply lines than securing the border. The toilet paper thing was just an example of the apparent inability of conservatives to remember what the Trump presidency was actually like. It was a weird four years, and not good weird. But if you think neither are good examples then so be it, as long as you’re good with yours not being good.
I wasn’t giving examples strictly of things Biden was fucking up. I was giving examples strictly of things where QoL has declined as a counterpoint to Zambrah saying Biden has good chances due to a positive QoL change - gas prices going down a bit.
Unfortunately for Biden a lot of what I mentioned is the result of Democrat led policies and being a Democrat himself he is going to have some guilt by association regardless if he is to be blamed.
|
|
|
On December 22 2023 11:38 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2023 10:29 BlackJack wrote:On December 22 2023 02:32 Zambrah wrote:
Biden can totally beat Trump, I think its even likely if something happens to give him a little burst of support around election time. Gas prices getting to pre-pandemic levels, something meaningful to QoL for people alongside people's general distaste of Trump.
Ill beat the turnout drum again, as long as turnout isn't depressed I think Biden will win.
Dunno how scabbed over people's feelings are about Trump, his nazi ass comments lately might help keep turnout from being depressed if he keeps making them though. 14,509 immigrants encountered at the border in 1 day this week, setting a new record. These are the same migrants that the Democratic mayors of Chicago and New York are saying are destroying their cities. Eric Adams blames the Biden administration for the predicament the are in.. Meanwhile you can't even go into a store anymore and get some razor blades off the shelf without asking a store associate to open the locked case they keep them in. Some stores are installing security gates inside of the store due to rampant theft. Homelessness is up. Crime is up. Our once great cities are turning to shit. If you think Biden can win this election with a QoL argument I'm afraid he's SoL. But hey, gas prices are coming down a bit. You’re in SF, right? I think your perspective is mostly right. But I do think it’s worth pointing out many of these issues feel much less extreme in other areas. If I remember you living in the SF area correctly, you’re in the epicenter of left wing pendulum reactions to Trump and it is hard for me to argue against it. Tbh, I think a big part of the issue is a classic dynamic in human psychology: judge yourself by your intentions and judge others by their actions/results. Look at the meltdown that occurred within the republican party as a reaction to 8 years of Obama. I won’t dwell on how or why they were bursting with resentment, but I think we can all agree they absolutely were. The result was Trump. They were so resentful of democrats that their singular focus was the intentions of Trump, which was essentially giving any component of letting ideology the finger loudly. We also saw places like Florida and Texas serve as the spear of right wing resentment and they did a bunch of clearly stupid shit “for the right reason” in their eyes. Places like SF and Portland had a similar pendulum swing out of resentment of Trump. They felt so powerless and defeated on a national level that they hyper fixated on their little microcosms they have a ton of power over. They essentially used local politics as a method of venting their frustrations with Trump. And here we are. People who let their political perspectives become a component of their identity will react defensively when you bring up Florida, Texas, Portland, and SF. Even though all 4 examples are clear cut examples of letting resentment and symbolism go way too far, the folks who identify with the symbolism will defend it by pointing out what it was in response to. I hate them. I deeply hate the practice of identifying with political beliefs. You’ve chatted with me long enough to know I’m essentially an authoritarian communist in many ways, but a large majority of people on my side of the aisle make me want to puke. I think the resentment-fueled reactionary dogshit that infests local politics is a main contributor to my hatred of my own party or leaning or whatever. It’s not like I’d ever in a million years vote for a republican because they are strictly dogshit. But I feel very disappointed in Portland and SF because they are amazingly terrible optics for perspectives I hold.
I'm not in San Francisco, but in the greater San Francisco Bay Area, yes. I'm also a little more fed up with all the bullshit that exists here because I had my car stolen in San Francisco last night. I was in Florida for the past week and flew in last night to discover my car was not where I left it. Side note, my friend that was watching my cats also had his window smashed and his ignition jacked up as someone tried to steal his car too. Anyway I had a sense that the bullshit that exists here would catch up to me so a few months ago I hid an AirTag under the floor mat of my car to track it in case it ever got stolen. I saw it pinging all over East Oakland, in the most crime-ridden areas until the wee hours of the morning. I drove around last night trying to find it but the pings were too sparse to track it down. This morning it stopped pinging and I found it in a crime-ridden area of East Oakland. I called 911 and the funny thing I learned about calling 911 in Oakland is sometimes you get to wait up to 10 minutes before anyone even answers. Good thing I wasn't having a heart attack and dying to the "no one is available to take your call, please remain on the line" messaging. I waited over 2 hours for the police to come to help me recover the vehicle. One time I called back and the guy said there were 86 other calls in the queue and my call was a low priority. I ended up 'stealing' the car back myself. I called the police dispatcher and told them I'm not waiting anymore and I'm taking my car. They got pissed and said "well it's still in the stolen vehicle system so if you get stopped for any reason they're going to initiate a felony stop and pull you over with their guns drawn." I said "I'm not too worried because they can't even recover a stolen vehicle that I'm telling them where it is" and hung up. It's now 11 hours later and Oakland police never got in contact with me. I ended up filing the vehicle recovery report with BART police which is the metro transit police whose garage the car was stolen from. They also scolded me for not waiting in the ghetto until I died of old age for Oakland police to show up. Apparently there is some special procedures they are supposed to follow with the DOJ to recover a vehicle and generate some SM#(?) or something. Like I give a fuck. 3 of my coworkers have had their cars stolen this year as well.
Oakland has a progressive DA, Pamela Price, that believes in "restorative justice" and an "equitable justice system" which as far as I can tell means doing anything she can to make sure people are not incarcerated, especially if they are of a certain color. It's so bad even the NAACP of Oakland had to come out and bluntly say 'Enforcing the law is not racist.'
OPD is at risk for losing state funding unless they improve their 911 wait times where callers wait on hold for sometimes 10-20 minutes. It's all about par for the course for a city that bought into Defund the police and All Cops Are Bastards. The sad thing is it's primarily the people of color that will suffer from this idiotic social experiment of letting crime run rampant. Polling shows that black people want MORE or equal police present in their community, not less.
And yes I think it's a pendulum swing as you describe and I expect the pendulum to swing back as people wake up to the bullshit. The SF DA got recalled. The recall for the Alameda DA is underway.
|
United States41383 Posts
On December 22 2023 13:49 BlackJack wrote:
It's all about par for the course for a city that bought into Defund the police and All Cops Are Bastards. The sad thing is it's primarily the people of color that will suffer from this idiotic social experiment of letting crime run rampant. Polling shows that black people want MORE or equal police present in their community, not less.
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=oakland pd budget by year
The "Defund The Police" thing is a conservative myth, nobody ever actually defunded police anywhere and nobody was ever actually calling for what they imagine that it meant. It just doesn't happen. It's a bogeyman that people are dumb enough to fall for despite being perfectly capable of a simple google search. They'd rather believe the narrative that crime is some simple thing to solve which liberals have somehow failed on than make even a basic effort to inform themselves. "If only the liberals hadn't defunded the police, San Francisco would be fixed".
What they're trying to express is that giving the police ever increasing sums of money for overtime and excessive force settlements while refusing to fund any of the solutions to the structural problems is clearly not working. Your story is evidence of that. They not only funded the police, they increased the funding of the police to an all time high, and yet you're here complaining that they can't seem to do their jobs. And you’re passionately arguing for the policy that is currently failing you, funding the police, while getting angry at the only people saying that maybe we should try something other than the policy that we’re seeing didn’t work.
|
Northern Ireland22442 Posts
On December 22 2023 15:39 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2023 13:49 BlackJack wrote:
It's all about par for the course for a city that bought into Defund the police and All Cops Are Bastards. The sad thing is it's primarily the people of color that will suffer from this idiotic social experiment of letting crime run rampant. Polling shows that black people want MORE or equal police present in their community, not less. https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=oakland pd budget by yearThe "Defund The Police" thing is a conservative myth, nobody ever actually defunded police anywhere and nobody was ever actually calling for what they imagine that it meant. It just doesn't happen. It's a bogeyman that people are dumb enough to fall for despite being perfectly capable of a simple google search. They'd rather believe the narrative that crime is some simple thing to solve which liberals have somehow failed on than make even a basic effort to inform themselves. "If only the liberals hadn't defunded the police, San Francisco would be fixed".
It’s only a seemingly small subset of people who actually vote on some sober assessment of policy and outcomes. Crime is an especially bad area for this.
The ‘facts don’t care about your feelings’ crowd are especially susceptible to well, feelings and intuition.
|
United States41383 Posts
On December 22 2023 15:58 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2023 15:39 KwarK wrote:On December 22 2023 13:49 BlackJack wrote:
It's all about par for the course for a city that bought into Defund the police and All Cops Are Bastards. The sad thing is it's primarily the people of color that will suffer from this idiotic social experiment of letting crime run rampant. Polling shows that black people want MORE or equal police present in their community, not less. https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=oakland pd budget by yearThe "Defund The Police" thing is a conservative myth, nobody ever actually defunded police anywhere and nobody was ever actually calling for what they imagine that it meant. It just doesn't happen. It's a bogeyman that people are dumb enough to fall for despite being perfectly capable of a simple google search. They'd rather believe the narrative that crime is some simple thing to solve which liberals have somehow failed on than make even a basic effort to inform themselves. "If only the liberals hadn't defunded the police, San Francisco would be fixed". It’s only a seemingly small subset of people who actually vote on some sober assessment of policy and outcomes. Crime is an especially bad area for this. The ‘facts don’t care about your feelings’ crowd are especially susceptible to well, feelings and intuition.
But you see the city bought into defund the police. They're conducting an idiotic social experiment. People wouldn't just make that stuff up to get people angry about crime. It's too easy to check, lying about that would never work.
|
Regardless, petty crime has gotten more rampant in recent years in big cities, which happen to be blue, and the solution cannot just be to run more social programs and hope the criminals eventually stop being criminals. No one wants to wait decades for the problem to fix itself.
|
Northern Ireland22442 Posts
On December 22 2023 18:20 gobbledydook wrote:
Regardless, petty crime has gotten more rampant in recent years in big cities, which happen to be blue, and the solution cannot just be to run more social programs and hope the criminals eventually stop being criminals. No one wants to wait decades for the problem to fix itself.
They can continue to wait then. Or they can be placated with tough rhetoric and ‘tough on crime’ measures that doesn’t actually do anything, but makes people feel better.
They also happen to be cities where the cost of living has risen considerably above wages, likewise cities with a big homeless problem. Which I would say trumps any red/blue governance observation.
People don’t like petty crime, or homeless people dandering about and lowering their property values, it’s a much more visible, personable interaction with problems that are rooted elsewhere.
|
On December 22 2023 10:29 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2023 02:32 Zambrah wrote:
Biden can totally beat Trump, I think its even likely if something happens to give him a little burst of support around election time. Gas prices getting to pre-pandemic levels, something meaningful to QoL for people alongside people's general distaste of Trump.
Ill beat the turnout drum again, as long as turnout isn't depressed I think Biden will win.
Dunno how scabbed over people's feelings are about Trump, his nazi ass comments lately might help keep turnout from being depressed if he keeps making them though. 14,509 immigrants encountered at the border in 1 day this week, setting a new record. These are the same migrants that the Democratic mayors of Chicago and New York are saying are destroying their cities. Eric Adams blames the Biden administration for the predicament the are in.. Meanwhile you can't even go into a store anymore and get some razor blades off the shelf without asking a store associate to open the locked case they keep them in. Some stores are installing security gates inside of the store due to rampant theft. Homelessness is up. Crime is up. Our once great cities are turning to shit. If you think Biden can win this election with a QoL argument I'm afraid he's SoL. But hey, gas prices are coming down a bit.
While I can't speak (at the moment) to the rest of your post, this part isn't new or specific to Biden. I grew up in a pretty affluent, suburban town in New Jersey, with very little crime, and even those stores had razor blades locked away, 20+ years ago. Even where I live now (suburban/rural NJ area, still very little crime), we need to ask the store associates to access small razor blades for us. This isn't a new thing, let alone caused by Biden or immigrants.
|
On December 22 2023 18:50 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2023 18:20 gobbledydook wrote:
Regardless, petty crime has gotten more rampant in recent years in big cities, which happen to be blue, and the solution cannot just be to run more social programs and hope the criminals eventually stop being criminals. No one wants to wait decades for the problem to fix itself. They can continue to wait then. Or they can be placated with tough rhetoric and ‘tough on crime’ measures that doesn’t actually do anything, but makes people feel better. They also happen to be cities where the cost of living has risen considerably above wages, likewise cities with a big homeless problem. Which I would say trumps any red/blue governance observation. People don’t like petty crime, or homeless people dandering about and lowering their property values, it’s a much more visible, personable interaction with problems that are rooted elsewhere.
The fact that it's a visible and undesirable by-product of deeper societal problems, doesn't mean that therefore you do nothing about it. After all, you take painkillers when you get a headache even though the painkillers don't cure the problem behind the headache and you're just waiting for it to go away eventually.
The public need to have confidence that something is being done to improve the situation, or else they will vote for someone who claims to be able to fix it.
|
On December 22 2023 19:25 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2023 18:50 WombaT wrote:On December 22 2023 18:20 gobbledydook wrote:
Regardless, petty crime has gotten more rampant in recent years in big cities, which happen to be blue, and the solution cannot just be to run more social programs and hope the criminals eventually stop being criminals. No one wants to wait decades for the problem to fix itself. They can continue to wait then. Or they can be placated with tough rhetoric and ‘tough on crime’ measures that doesn’t actually do anything, but makes people feel better. They also happen to be cities where the cost of living has risen considerably above wages, likewise cities with a big homeless problem. Which I would say trumps any red/blue governance observation. People don’t like petty crime, or homeless people dandering about and lowering their property values, it’s a much more visible, personable interaction with problems that are rooted elsewhere. The fact that it's a visible and undesirable by-product of deeper societal problems, doesn't mean that therefore you do nothing about it. After all, you take painkillers when you get a headache even though the painkillers don't cure the problem behind the headache and you're just waiting for it to go away eventually. The public need to have confidence that something is being done to improve the situation, or else they will vote for someone who claims to be able to fix it.
The problem is, the ones who claim to be able to fix it don't have any solutions, what they do is divert outrage towards the people who actually do try and fix things instead while doing their best to undermine any efforts to make real changes happen.
You're acting as if the dems stand in the way of justice and reducing crime, which as far as I can tell at least, isn't really what's happening at all.
|
I'm pretty sure, that if thieves were shot on sight, there wouldn't be thieves very soon. An extreme example, but it shows that there are ways to stop it.
|
United States24449 Posts
On December 22 2023 22:59 gobbledydook wrote:
I'm pretty sure, that if thieves were shot on sight, there wouldn't be thieves very soon. An extreme example, but it shows that there are ways to stop it.
This would also create greater problems than having lots of petty thieves, so it's not really proving any useful point.
edit: The post below is one of many possible examples of why
|
Until you have trigger happy a-holes shooting people because they think they're thieves and now you replaced a potential thief with a killer.
|
|
|
On December 22 2023 22:59 gobbledydook wrote:
I'm pretty sure, that if thieves were shot on sight, there wouldn't be thieves very soon. An extreme example, but it shows that there are ways to stop it. Give a hungry man a choice between the certainty of starving to death or the chance of a bullet and they are going to risk the bullet more times then not.
Its an extreme example, but even that doesn't work.
|
On December 22 2023 22:59 gobbledydook wrote:
I'm pretty sure, that if thieves were shot on sight, there wouldn't be thieves very soon. An extreme example, but it shows that there are ways to stop it.
There was a time when being a thief meant you at best lost your hand and at worst died, and crime not only existed then but for all intents and purposes society was a lot more crime ridden back then.
So no, 'just kill the thieves' doesnt actually stop thieves from existing.
|
United States24449 Posts
I had a similar thought recently actually. Since COVID, the Washington DC Metro (subway) has had high levels of fare evasion where people hop over the gate they're supposed to swipe at to pay (partly, it's the fault of the gates being so easy to defeat, but that's a separate issue). The Metro is trying to reign in the fare evasion now, but it's always hard to get people to start behaving after you enabled them to misbehave in the past. I wondered, if at every metro station, a line of like 30 soldiers with machine guns loomed over the fare gates, and any time someone hopped a fare gate, they would immediately get showered with hundreds of bullets, would that solve the fare evasion problem? Would the problem return when the soldiers stopped monitoring the stations?
Actually, even people willing to pay would steer clear of the Metro stations and the Metro would lose even more money haha.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
