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On January 07 2023 12:54 Sermokala wrote:
Gatz is the deciding vote and is waiting for the runback to best it.
I don't know what's worse if I was a republican, if McCarthy loses again or what you would have to give that man to vote for McCarthy.
And Gaetz skipped his turn on purpose, just for the eventual spotlight. Just like when he voted for Trump yesterday. He's so unlikable; he's like the Ted Cruz of the House of Representatives.
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Gatz voted present but that's not enough to win.
He's going to bobert and gatz to get one to change iconic picture. I believe that he's failed yet again.
I think they're arguing about pushing to Monday.
Someone lunged at gatz over this.
They can still change their vote before it's declared by the clerk.
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LOL THEY MESSED UP THE MATH. Holy shit. The Republicans planned to clinch the exact number, and they might be one vote short. What is happening!? McCarthy is so pissed right now. The 14th vote is a fail too: "We'll do it again."
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This is astonishing. Off by one because Gaetz voted present. Judging from the anger on McCarthy's face, I have to imagine he believed he had Gaetz's vote after making all the necessary concessions, but then he got reneged.
Wanted to hold the vote until Monday for whatever reason. I dunno, maybe squeeze McCarthy out more or maybe he relishes in extending everyone's pain.
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Obviously, McCarthy will eventually become Speaker, but it was absolutely priceless to hear all the Republicans cheering and see them smiling smugly, only to watch their faces drop when they realized they need to continue appealing to morons like Matt Gaetz and Lauren Boebert.
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14th ballot fails they're adjurouning until Monday.
Oh my god what a humiliation.
The people who came back for this night vote. One has a sick premature baby, ones wife had a stroke, one has a funeral for his mom in the morning. What sickness exists in that house right now.
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There was a proposed motion to adjourn until Monday (for vote #15), and the members went *ballistic*. Screams of "NOOOOOO" and it's absolute pandemonium. They need to decide to either try again tonight or wait a full weekend. They're going to vote now on trying again tonight vs. waiting three days.
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They're not adjoining now? I think they've manually changed votes and are going to go for 15 now.
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THE VOTE TO ADJOURN OR NOT WAS A TIE LOL WHAT. Looks like given this perfect tie, some Republicans are changing votes to try again tonight. They must have convinced a defector just now.
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Cnn is reporting gatez has flipped to McCarthy.
There appears to be the last of the holdouts will all vote present to give McCarthy the speaker finally.
At last it will be over.
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On January 07 2023 12:51 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2023 12:34 oBlade wrote:On January 07 2023 12:21 Sermokala wrote:On January 07 2023 12:19 oBlade wrote:On January 07 2023 12:12 gobbledydook wrote:On January 07 2023 11:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On January 07 2023 09:51 FlaShFTW wrote:On January 07 2023 06:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
The House has adjourned until 10 PM... I'm assuming that's eastern time zone, so 6 hours from now. Apparently, that'll be when the 14th vote attempt is. Some rumors spreading about some holdouts like Boebert voting present instead of for someone else to reduce the threshold to allow McCarthy to win. Probably the most spineless thing you can do actually, not even voting for someone to lower the threshold rather than just flat out voting for McCarthy so you can hold plausible deniability that you didn't vote for him, even tho it's effectively the same thing. Also, vote structure needs to change. I hate how you can just not vote when you're called, or vote after the timer goes off. We need like mobile apps for the politicians to vote remotely or something, and we need to stop just letting people cast a vote well after their turn to vote is over. Totally agree. I don't know if it's because of some sacred tradition to vote in person, or because the average age of Congresspeople is 137 and they think a mobile app is fast food you order at the beginning of your dinner, but there's no excuse for doing a second and then a third round of checking in with each of them, one at a time. They're running our country, yet we treat them with kid gloves. I would be shocked if moderate/establishment Republicans voted against McCarthy for making too many compromises with the nutjobs, but it would be pretty entertaining to see complete pandemonium erupt during the votes. The moderates have no alternative. Every alternative to McCarthy is either a Democrat or is more right wing than him. So the moderates who are voting for McCarthy are more right wing than McCarthy? He's saying that there is no alternative speaker than McCarthy. Got it I didn't realize "moderates" were prohibited from voting for one another. There are not enough of them. Further splitting the vote does not help. So its either a dem, mccarthy, or someone further right the captures the ultra far right holdouts.
If there aren't enough "moderates" then they probably weren't that moderate to begin with. You and McCarthy seem to share the same assumption that his speakership is preordained. If that's the case, and you like him so much, some nice moderate Democrats could easily vote for him to stop him from caving to the FAR RIGHT ULTRA CONSERVATIVE Republicans who want their Speaker to actually represent the interests of those who elected the representatives and are pushing for term limits, appropriations amendments, floor amendments, and mandatory time to read bills.
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I don't think you understand how basic politics work. You do realize parties exist and they're not a joint organization right?
Speaker ships are suppose to be preordained as the speaker collects his support weeks and months in advance. McCarthy has spectacular failures at this in the public eye.
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On January 07 2023 12:21 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2023 12:19 oBlade wrote:On January 07 2023 12:12 gobbledydook wrote:On January 07 2023 11:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On January 07 2023 09:51 FlaShFTW wrote:On January 07 2023 06:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
The House has adjourned until 10 PM... I'm assuming that's eastern time zone, so 6 hours from now. Apparently, that'll be when the 14th vote attempt is. Some rumors spreading about some holdouts like Boebert voting present instead of for someone else to reduce the threshold to allow McCarthy to win. Probably the most spineless thing you can do actually, not even voting for someone to lower the threshold rather than just flat out voting for McCarthy so you can hold plausible deniability that you didn't vote for him, even tho it's effectively the same thing. Also, vote structure needs to change. I hate how you can just not vote when you're called, or vote after the timer goes off. We need like mobile apps for the politicians to vote remotely or something, and we need to stop just letting people cast a vote well after their turn to vote is over. Totally agree. I don't know if it's because of some sacred tradition to vote in person, or because the average age of Congresspeople is 137 and they think a mobile app is fast food you order at the beginning of your dinner, but there's no excuse for doing a second and then a third round of checking in with each of them, one at a time. They're running our country, yet we treat them with kid gloves. I would be shocked if moderate/establishment Republicans voted against McCarthy for making too many compromises with the nutjobs, but it would be pretty entertaining to see complete pandemonium erupt during the votes. The moderates have no alternative. Every alternative to McCarthy is either a Democrat or is more right wing than him. So the moderates who are voting for McCarthy are more right wing than McCarthy? He's saying that there is no alternative speaker than McCarthy.
If McCarthy isn't getting the ultraconservative vote, an even more moderate option is just going to get less votes.
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McCarthy got it on the 15th try.
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On January 07 2023 15:11 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2023 12:21 Sermokala wrote:On January 07 2023 12:19 oBlade wrote:On January 07 2023 12:12 gobbledydook wrote:On January 07 2023 11:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On January 07 2023 09:51 FlaShFTW wrote:On January 07 2023 06:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
The House has adjourned until 10 PM... I'm assuming that's eastern time zone, so 6 hours from now. Apparently, that'll be when the 14th vote attempt is. Some rumors spreading about some holdouts like Boebert voting present instead of for someone else to reduce the threshold to allow McCarthy to win. Probably the most spineless thing you can do actually, not even voting for someone to lower the threshold rather than just flat out voting for McCarthy so you can hold plausible deniability that you didn't vote for him, even tho it's effectively the same thing. Also, vote structure needs to change. I hate how you can just not vote when you're called, or vote after the timer goes off. We need like mobile apps for the politicians to vote remotely or something, and we need to stop just letting people cast a vote well after their turn to vote is over. Totally agree. I don't know if it's because of some sacred tradition to vote in person, or because the average age of Congresspeople is 137 and they think a mobile app is fast food you order at the beginning of your dinner, but there's no excuse for doing a second and then a third round of checking in with each of them, one at a time. They're running our country, yet we treat them with kid gloves. I would be shocked if moderate/establishment Republicans voted against McCarthy for making too many compromises with the nutjobs, but it would be pretty entertaining to see complete pandemonium erupt during the votes. The moderates have no alternative. Every alternative to McCarthy is either a Democrat or is more right wing than him. So the moderates who are voting for McCarthy are more right wing than McCarthy? He's saying that there is no alternative speaker than McCarthy. If McCarthy isn't getting the ultraconservative vote, an even more moderate option is just going to get less votes.
There were speculations that a moderate enough Republican could get some centrist DEM votes if they were offered some goodies. Fortunately for the GOP they did not have to explore this option.
It is unfortunate this kind of bipartisanship is so far off, and GOP should carry most of the blame. It should be much easier to deal with centrist Democrats than freak Republicans...
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United States10569 Posts
Time to see how this clown fiesta is gonna pan out for Republicans in a very important 2024 election. I for one really hope moderates and even lean-right voters pay attention to this and give the Republican Party hell for the absolute shit show displayed for the past 4 days, as well as the inevitable shitshow and impending government shut down that will exist for the next 2 years.
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On January 08 2023 01:56 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2023 14:05 oBlade wrote:On January 07 2023 12:51 JimmiC wrote:On January 07 2023 12:34 oBlade wrote:On January 07 2023 12:21 Sermokala wrote:On January 07 2023 12:19 oBlade wrote:On January 07 2023 12:12 gobbledydook wrote:On January 07 2023 11:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On January 07 2023 09:51 FlaShFTW wrote:On January 07 2023 06:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
The House has adjourned until 10 PM... I'm assuming that's eastern time zone, so 6 hours from now. Apparently, that'll be when the 14th vote attempt is. Some rumors spreading about some holdouts like Boebert voting present instead of for someone else to reduce the threshold to allow McCarthy to win. Probably the most spineless thing you can do actually, not even voting for someone to lower the threshold rather than just flat out voting for McCarthy so you can hold plausible deniability that you didn't vote for him, even tho it's effectively the same thing. Also, vote structure needs to change. I hate how you can just not vote when you're called, or vote after the timer goes off. We need like mobile apps for the politicians to vote remotely or something, and we need to stop just letting people cast a vote well after their turn to vote is over. Totally agree. I don't know if it's because of some sacred tradition to vote in person, or because the average age of Congresspeople is 137 and they think a mobile app is fast food you order at the beginning of your dinner, but there's no excuse for doing a second and then a third round of checking in with each of them, one at a time. They're running our country, yet we treat them with kid gloves. I would be shocked if moderate/establishment Republicans voted against McCarthy for making too many compromises with the nutjobs, but it would be pretty entertaining to see complete pandemonium erupt during the votes. The moderates have no alternative. Every alternative to McCarthy is either a Democrat or is more right wing than him. So the moderates who are voting for McCarthy are more right wing than McCarthy? He's saying that there is no alternative speaker than McCarthy. Got it I didn't realize "moderates" were prohibited from voting for one another. There are not enough of them. Further splitting the vote does not help. So its either a dem, mccarthy, or someone further right the captures the ultra far right holdouts. If there aren't enough "moderates" then they probably weren't that moderate to begin with. You and McCarthy seem to share the same assumption that his speakership is preordained. If that's the case, and you like him so much, some nice moderate Democrats could easily vote for him to stop him from caving to the FAR RIGHT ULTRA CONSERVATIVE Republicans who want their Speaker to actually represent the interests of those who elected the representatives and are pushing for term limits, appropriations amendments, floor amendments, and mandatory time to read bills. Nope, Im not saying what I think should happen, Ive said that earlier. Im saying what is happening. People care more about which team they are on over their values.
I can't find it in the last couple pages. You said either a Democrat, McCarthy, or someone "further right" (meaning McCarthy is to a probably disagreeable amount "right"). Since you know it would never have been a Democratic Speaker of a Republican majority House I'm guessing you are just shutting down at being challenged with the notion that you must in some way prefer McCarthy over others?
On January 08 2023 01:56 JimmiC wrote:It clear many republicans values allign more with modrate dems than with the wackos who belive in jeeish space lasers or pay young girls to have sex with them and fly them over state lines. But in the US its party over logic.
Yeah... It's unfortunate that Democratic representatives are so weak as to toe the party line at all costs even over logic? If I'm understanding you right? I agree. When's the last time you've seen anyone stand up to Pelosi or Schumer or Hakeem the same way these maverick Republican reps just took the House to a historic 100-year high 4 days of 15 floor votes before running out of things to ask for. The AOCs of the Democratic party should be ashamed of themselves.
Also my impression is this is kind of like hedging your bets on why you can inevitably disagree with whatever McCarthy and the House Republicans are going to end up doing. If Kevin does something, he's being an evil Republican, if he does something Gaetz likes, then he is a spineless genuflecting coward who is letting crazies control everything. If Kevin doesn't do anything, then he's a failure at standing up to the evil ultra far alt right who are going to block his perfectly reasonable McCain-like Republican agenda. Something like this is my impression of the flowcharts being finalized in people's brains right now to filter the next 2 years of politics.
On January 08 2023 01:56 JimmiC wrote:
And why are you so upset by the term far right? Who is right of the people you support? Get over it, own it, you super thr ultra far right. Or change who you support. This is not me being mean, its reality.
Unfortunately I don't really know what you're talking about except I find the term "far right" extremely useful in identifying propaganda, hit pieces, and people whose thinking stops at labels.
Let me draw a hypothetical picture:
Left Moderate Right
H |||||| |||| ||||| |||||| || |||| McCarthy || |
Here is a case where we take for argument's sake that McCarthy is far right, and the "only alternatives" were people further right, or Democrats (not pictured except Hakeem Jeffries). This means that all those helpless moderates have nobody else they could vote for. It is electorally asinine to suggest among 222 people there were no "alternatives" except working from the axiom that McCarthy was the only option. Lack of imagination.
Left Moderate Right
H |||McCarthy || |||| ||||| |||||| || |||| || |
Here is another case, in which we also accept that the only "alternatives" to McCarthy are people further right (i.e. more evil), but in this case it's because McCarthy is a moderate already, to which I say, so what's the problem.
At any rate it's a misunderstanding to essentially try to analyze politics and an electoral calculus over (your perceived) like politicalcompass scores of these people and why they would or wouldn't vote for one another and what they believe in. Much of the rebellion against McCarthy is that he is simply not trustworthy - he is beholden to where the money comes from and has sold out voters in the past.
Finally, I fail to see in this case how pushing for: single issue bills, appropriations amendments, mandatory periods to read bills before they pass, spending caps, legislation on Congressional term limits, Texas border action, and a "Church" committee to investigate the surveillance state... are far right.
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On January 08 2023 02:56 FlaShFTW wrote:
Time to see how this clown fiesta is gonna pan out for Republicans in a very important 2024 election. I for one really hope moderates and even lean-right voters pay attention to this and give the Republican Party hell for the absolute shit show displayed for the past 4 days, as well as the inevitable shitshow and impending government shut down that will exist for the next 2 years. Voters have trouble remembering what happened last month. Let alone 2 years ago.
No one is going to care about the speaker election by then.
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EPT
