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On June 01 2018 23:39 a_flayer wrote:Also, unrelated, if I were one of these kids, I'd be on my utmost behavior for the next 10 years to make sure I could deliver my revenge. Congratulations, US judicial system, you just created three potential terrorists.
holy shit that's horrible oO
Seriously why even award that 1$... that's 100% to send a message and nothing else unless I'm missing something big in that picture somewhere. Yeah they ruled that the guy is 99% responsible himself but even just awarding 1% of the 11k doesn't end up being 1$.... so... are they making fun of them or what is that?
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I believe the damages were $1 each and the liability was 99/1 therefore they receive $.01 each.
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Welcome to the justice system, where juries do the weirdest shit that makes no sense. I don’t know how they came to the conclusion that cop was 1% responsible and likely never will.
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On June 01 2018 23:39 a_flayer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2018 17:23 iamthedave wrote:On June 01 2018 05:31 Mohdoo wrote:
It is extremely important that North America and Europe don't blink and have absolute resolve. Allowing Trump to win a game of chicken will empower him politically and allow him to drastically increase this behavior. This needs to be strongly punished and NA/EU need to be willing to bleed for this. Protectionism needs to be shut down immediately. Don't worry, dude. If there's one thing we Europeans can do, it's be stubborn and win trade wars. We're veterans at it. Not to mention the US's political structure is very easy to 'sanction snipe'. Can't do that with us. Uhm... yeah, sorry, what? "We Europeans?" What are you talking about, Islander? Also, unrelated, if I were one of these kids, I'd be on my utmost behavior for the next 10 years to make sure I could deliver my revenge. Congratulations, US judicial system, you just created three potential terrorists.
One dollar... for funeral expenses and damages of having their father shot in their home. The police were there for a first-time noise complaint. The officer fired through a closed door.
The fact that the officer walks free and the jury awards a dollar is like pouring salt in the most grievous of possible wounds. Do some people just get their rocks off on allowing or being able to commit state-sanctioned murder? What possible world-view or perspective could someone have that this looks okay? And how is awarding a dollar in damages is not just a disgusting insult?
Officer through to jury this whole story is just a mess. This isn't one failure or heartless bastard in an otherwise semi-functional system. This is a mass of different failures and problems.
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On June 01 2018 23:55 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2018 23:39 a_flayer wrote:Also, unrelated, if I were one of these kids, I'd be on my utmost behavior for the next 10 years to make sure I could deliver my revenge. Congratulations, US judicial system, you just created three potential terrorists. holy shit that's horrible oO Seriously why even award that 1$... that's 100% to send a message and nothing else unless I'm missing something big in that picture somewhere. Yeah they ruled that the guy is 99% responsible himself but even just awarding 1% of the 11k doesn't end up being 1$.... so... are they making fun of them or what is that?
maybe the jurors were just assholes?
I mean, you get a random selection of people for jury duty; you might just end up with a bunch of jerks by chance. sure it's not likely; but considering the number of civil trials a year (even when limiting it to more important matters), some rare chance occurrences are likely. and it's those rare cases that receive press coverage.
might also be a very pro-cop bunch of people; since that attitude is very common in the US.
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On June 02 2018 00:01 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2018 23:39 a_flayer wrote:iamthedave
Profile PM Joined February 2011
England
1267 Posts On June 01 2018 17:23 iamthedave wrote:On June 01 2018 05:31 Mohdoo wrote:
It is extremely important that North America and Europe don't blink and have absolute resolve. Allowing Trump to win a game of chicken will empower him politically and allow him to drastically increase this behavior. This needs to be strongly punished and NA/EU need to be willing to bleed for this. Protectionism needs to be shut down immediately. Don't worry, dude. If there's one thing we Europeans can do, it's be stubborn and win trade wars. We're veterans at it. Not to mention the US's political structure is very easy to 'sanction snipe'. Can't do that with us. Uhm... yeah, sorry, what? "We Europeans?" What are you talking about, Islander? Also, unrelated, if I were one of these kids, I'd be on my utmost behavior for the next 10 years to make sure I could deliver my revenge. Congratulations, US judicial system, you just created three potential terrorists. One dollar... for funeral expenses and damages of having their father shot in their home. The police were there for a first-time noise complaint. The officer fired through a closed door. The fact that the officer walks free and the jury awards a dollar is like pouring salt in the most grievous of possible wounds. Do some people just get their rocks off on allowing or being able to commit state-sanctioned murder? What possible world-view or perspective could someone have that this looks okay? And how is awarding a dollar in damages is not just a disgusting insult? Officer through to jury this whole story is just a mess. This isn't one failure or heartless bastard in an otherwise semi-functional system. This is a mass of different failures and problems. The basis of all of this is always the same.
The threshold for lethal force is WAY to low in the US.
Pretty much any shooting by police is legal because of this absurdly low threshold and in the legal system that is what matters.
Upping the threshold from "The officer felt vaguely threatened" will do a lot to remedy this problem the US is having.
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If I had to bet, this was what they compromised on rather than allow the case to go to a retrial. Or they happened to pull 12 pro-cop assholes. Or the judge is a moron and didn’t allow a bunch of evidence through.
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Just another day in Amerikkka.
I imagine if we're patient we can encourage departments like that to reform and perhaps in a decade or two they won't do stuff like this as frequently.
Until then I would hope people stay reasonable, discuss what reforms could get us there in that decade or two, and for god's sake please don't do things so unbelievably disruptive as delaying people's commute to desperately try to get them to do something.
The only sensible option is to have public debates over the validity of white supremacy with working class white people like this gentleman and patiently wait for them to support/reform when they are ready:
Lewis, who had turned 31 that same day, was hit by a 2003 Chevrolet pickup that was being driven by 18-year-old Matthew M. Martin, Master Trooper Scott Moreau confirmed. Lewis was pronounced dead at a local hospital, while Martin, who was wearing a seat belt at the time, was not injured.
...what has shocked police, local activists and others in the community are the racist, callous Snapchat messages allegedly sent by Martin after the incident.
In one image, a red vehicle is shown with the caption “y’all i just hit a whole guy on the highway,” with three laugh/cry emojis included.
Another Snapchat image showed a message screen between a “Matthew Martin” and another individual, in which both individuals displayed a crass and cavalier attitude about the fact that a person lost his life in an accident, with “Matthew” referring to the victim as “some nigger.”
www.theroot.com
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On June 02 2018 00:12 Plansix wrote:
If I had to bet, this was what they compromised on rather than allow the case to go to a retrial. Or they happened to pull 12 pro-cop assholes. Or the judge is a moron and didn’t allow a bunch of evidence through.
it looks like there were 8 jurors total from the article.
edit nm on the line that used to be here; according to https://www.juryduty101.com/states/florida/jury-duty-types unanimity is required.
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On June 02 2018 00:04 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2018 23:55 Toadesstern wrote:On June 01 2018 23:39 a_flayer wrote:Also, unrelated, if I were one of these kids, I'd be on my utmost behavior for the next 10 years to make sure I could deliver my revenge. Congratulations, US judicial system, you just created three potential terrorists. holy shit that's horrible oO Seriously why even award that 1$... that's 100% to send a message and nothing else unless I'm missing something big in that picture somewhere. Yeah they ruled that the guy is 99% responsible himself but even just awarding 1% of the 11k doesn't end up being 1$.... so... are they making fun of them or what is that? maybe the jurors were just assholes? I mean, you get a random selection of people for jury duty; you might just end up with a bunch of jerks by chance. sure it's not likely; but considering the number of civil trials a year (even when limiting it to more important matters), some rare chance occurrences are likely. and it's those rare cases that receive press coverage. might also be a very pro-cop bunch of people; since that attitude is very common in the US.
yeah I guess but even if they're the most pro-cop people out there... straight up mocking children and the wife of that man who got shot is on a completly different level for me.
No matter how much you believe it's the guys fault and that the family should not be getting compensation because you're super pro-police... awarding 1$ to mock them just seems straight up psycho-level lack of empathy to me... those are still 3 children who lost their dad
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On June 02 2018 00:00 Plansix wrote:
Welcome to the justice system, where juries do the weirdest shit that makes no sense. I don’t know how they came to the conclusion that cop was 1% responsible and likely never will.
They didn't actually even say the cop was responsible. According to the article, Ken Mascara (the boss of the guy who pulled the trigger) was found 1% responsible, and Newman (the guy who shot Hill) wasn't even charged. I don't know how this happened, honestly. The guy who fired shots is literally 0% liable?????
Also, to go back to the school topic, I believe many people are missing how connected this issue is to matters of mental health. About 10 years ago, the policy at my school (a highly rated public school with actual funding) was to sit me in a desk away from all of the other students for about three years straight because they didn't actually have a way to deal with kids with ADHD. I was practically unable to make friends and I was treated like a leper by the other kids because they knew me as the fucked up kid who sits alone because they're fucked up. Additionally, two of those three years, my teachers didn't seem to care that they isolated me; they would occasionally forget to pass me papers when handing things out, because "sorry, I forgot you were over here." As a kid, I couldn't break out of this social isolation alone or didn't know how, so I just kind of accepted a life without friends; my 5th grade teacher, the only one who seemed to care, had me introduce a new student to the school instead of choosing a popular kid as a way of helping me make a friend, and I'm still friends with that student today. If I didn't have that exceptional teacher, I'm not sure I would have made any friends. I felt alone, and from what I've heard, my experience wasn't an anomaly in terms of how kids with mental health issues are treated in school.
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And how we will be forced to buy electricity from coal plants to assure the industry doesn’t go out of business. This is cronyism at its finest, using Cold War era laws to justify proping up political allies. And hurting other industries that are in the same market.
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On June 02 2018 00:20 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2018 00:04 zlefin wrote:On June 01 2018 23:55 Toadesstern wrote:On June 01 2018 23:39 a_flayer wrote:Also, unrelated, if I were one of these kids, I'd be on my utmost behavior for the next 10 years to make sure I could deliver my revenge. Congratulations, US judicial system, you just created three potential terrorists. holy shit that's horrible oO Seriously why even award that 1$... that's 100% to send a message and nothing else unless I'm missing something big in that picture somewhere. Yeah they ruled that the guy is 99% responsible himself but even just awarding 1% of the 11k doesn't end up being 1$.... so... are they making fun of them or what is that? maybe the jurors were just assholes? I mean, you get a random selection of people for jury duty; you might just end up with a bunch of jerks by chance. sure it's not likely; but considering the number of civil trials a year (even when limiting it to more important matters), some rare chance occurrences are likely. and it's those rare cases that receive press coverage. might also be a very pro-cop bunch of people; since that attitude is very common in the US. yeah I guess but even if they're the most pro-cop people out there... straight up mocking children and the wife of that man who got shot is on a completly different level for me. No matter how much you believe it's the guys fault and that the family should not be getting compensation because you're super pro-police... awarding 1$ to mock them just seems straight up psycho-level lack of empathy to me... those are still 3 children who lost their dad
yeah, I dunno what's up with that. it might be some sort of legal thing that if they find any degree of fault in the police (even if only 1%) they have to issue an award; and the legal minimum is a dollar so they did that. wouldn't be the first time having a token dollar is relevant legally.
and elsewhere we had one juror vote not guilty on that cop who was on video shooting someone in the back while they fled iirc; so we get some crazy jurors.
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On June 02 2018 00:22 Plansix wrote:https://twitter.com/jendlouhyhc/status/1002386812038414338And how we will be forced to buy electricity from coal plants to assure the industry doesn’t go out of business. This is cronyism at its finest, using Cold War era laws to justify proping up political allies. And hurting other industries that are in the same market.
Hugo Chavez rebranded / packaged for a right wing audience is still a great comparison.
I really need to get around to taking on debt...
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On June 01 2018 23:58 NovaTheFeared wrote:
I believe the damages were $1 each and the liability was 99/1 therefore they receive $.01 each.
Because he was drunk its kicked from 4cents to 0. The numbers served only to insult and degrade the family. Jury should be ashamed.
Isn't this kinda how Killmonger got created? Feel terrible for the kids.
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It is a bit sad that no one was surprised by this in the slightest. Cops murder a black guy in his garage, is obviously found to be without any fault, and the court even taunts the family.
This should be utterly outrageous and unheard of, and yet is simply file it as "standard america at it again". Something like this should never be normal, and yet it has turned into normal. Even the story is basically standard. People complain about loud sounds, cops ring at door, guy opens garage door, cops shout "GUN!!!!" and shoot him.
Fix your shit america. Cops need a better justification than "I felt threatened" to shoot people. Courts need to stop buying this shit too. Until this stops happening, there needs to be public outrage each time it happens. I know that it is exhausting to be outraged all the time, but your cops are murdering your citizens. That is not a good status quo.
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On June 02 2018 01:44 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2018 23:58 NovaTheFeared wrote:
I believe the damages were $1 each and the liability was 99/1 therefore they receive $.01 each. Because he was drunk its kicked from 4cents to 0. The numbers served only to insult and degrade the family. Jury should be ashamed. Isn't this kinda how Killmonger got created? Feel terrible for the kids.
They family's attorney is filing a motion to set a new trial and will appeal that if the motion is denied. The stories being published today lack a lot of the details, including the judge's response to the ruling. We will have to see what the motion brings as grounds for a new trial.
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I read the article. The guy got killed over a noise complaint. A policeman comes over to investigate, which is reasonable, up till the point he started shooting through a closing or closed garage door. I don't even understand.
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The police report sounds like some hot bullshit, but I don't think there were any other witnesses. If that is the case, I understand why the DA wouldn't have charged the cop. The cop's account of the events would be hard to challenged without physical evidence the cop screwed up or a witness to challenge the cop's version of the events.
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EPT
