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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On May 31 2020 12:48 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2020 10:35 Starlightsun wrote:On May 31 2020 10:10 Xxio wrote:On May 31 2020 06:01 ShoCkeyy wrote:On May 31 2020 05:17 Xxio wrote:On May 31 2020 01:23 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 31 2020 01:14 puppykiller wrote:On May 31 2020 00:51 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 31 2020 00:38 Xxio wrote:It's really sad to see how the looting and destruction is impacting local businesses and communities. Sometimes it's the small things, like when Dianne Binns of St. Paul was unable to pick up medication for her daughter. Her words of wisdom: “What are people going to do in those communities when they need those resources? We don’t have many stores as it is. So why are we going to burn down the small business owners who are there for us?” SourceThe sports bar of a firefighter and local coach was looted and burned down. The good news is that 611,000 was raised of a 100,000 fundraiser goal to rebuild. I wonder how much honest, hard-working people will have to pay to fix the mess left by rioting thugs. And this is in a time of business closures, when many people are struggling just to hold on to what they have. "Minnehaha Lake Wine and Spirits has been serving the neighborhood since it was legal to sell alcohol, and run by the same family since 1983. Its vintage neon sign is an icon of the area. News cameras caught the looting of the shop happening early in the evening, and expletives spray painted on the exterior... Town Talk Diner possesses another iconic sign of the area, and has been a small family-run restaurant since 2016. This morning, the words, “Kill Cops,” are visible spray-painted on the front door, under the iconic sign. The restaurant had its windows smashed, interior looted, and chairs and tables strewn about." Source. Many more cases in the article. Those innocent victims of these riots should be furious that it has come to this through years of peaceful protests being ignored. Why don't you burn your own house and store rather than elect members of your community as targets for your demonstration. Why do you get to choose who suffers. What a disgusting and self-righteous mindset. It's like you can't even hear your own words. Disgusting and self righteous! Nice If you only you were that furious about the murder that happened the other day. I mean imagine being angrier about a business having to receive insurance money than hundreds of years of of a whole population being killed by the state lol. Disgusting and self righteous indeed. The whole population has not been killed by the state. In fact, black families are overrepresented as welfare recipients by 26.3%. "FY 1999, Non-Hispanic White families made up 30.5% of the [welfare]caseload, African-American families 38.3%, and Hispanic families, 24.5%." Source. Overall, "The rate of dependency for non-Hispanic Blacks is more than six times that of non-Hispanic Whites, and that of Hispanics is more than four times as high." Source. More stats you may find useful. “Of adults arrested for murder, 53% were Black or African American", an overrepresentation of 41%. Source. From 2012-2015, black people represented 22.7% of violent crime offenders, an overrepresentation of 10.7%. White people committed 8.9% (91,470 offenders) of violent crime against black people. Black people committed 17.8% (540,360 offenders) of violent crime against white people. Source. Unfortunately the data is incomplete. "In 2015, 46% of the violent crimes and 19% of the property crimes reported to police were cleared, according to FBI data. 62% of murders and non-negligent homicides in the U.S. were cleared." Source Baltimore, Chicago and New Orleans cleared less than 28% of homicide cases in 2016. Memphis, Detroit, and Indianapolis have similar rates. Source. This is literally what racist argue on Facebook... have you ever thought that it’s possible crime in general is up in poverty stricken areas?? There is no argument, claim, or supposition in my post. Only facts. Interpret them as you please. Dude don't be a pussy with that "I'm not making any argument just stating facts." There are countless facts in this world but we must select which are relevant to the argument at hand. You chose to share that minorities are more likely to receive welfare and commit violent crimes. The context of this was a highly publicized killing of a black man by a white police officer, ensuing riots, and the value of human life vs property. Say what you mean. That post is clear and straight forward to me. I don't see any racist stance in the post, either. Just a good post correctly stating that the fact of the matter is that "the whole population" is not being killed by the "state" as Jockmcplop claimed, followed by facts that many may find useful.
How does stating that black people are overrepresented in the welfare system counters that opinion ? How does stating facts without opinion ever work ? You just think of some cool facts and type it ? You state facts to advance your arguments. If he didn't explicitly lay out his argument and people misunderstand him, thats still on him. Trying to weasel out of it by saying "just facts bro" doesn't really cut it.
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On May 31 2020 12:48 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2020 10:35 Starlightsun wrote:On May 31 2020 10:10 Xxio wrote:On May 31 2020 06:01 ShoCkeyy wrote:On May 31 2020 05:17 Xxio wrote:On May 31 2020 01:23 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 31 2020 01:14 puppykiller wrote:On May 31 2020 00:51 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 31 2020 00:38 Xxio wrote:It's really sad to see how the looting and destruction is impacting local businesses and communities. Sometimes it's the small things, like when Dianne Binns of St. Paul was unable to pick up medication for her daughter. Her words of wisdom: “What are people going to do in those communities when they need those resources? We don’t have many stores as it is. So why are we going to burn down the small business owners who are there for us?” SourceThe sports bar of a firefighter and local coach was looted and burned down. The good news is that 611,000 was raised of a 100,000 fundraiser goal to rebuild. I wonder how much honest, hard-working people will have to pay to fix the mess left by rioting thugs. And this is in a time of business closures, when many people are struggling just to hold on to what they have. "Minnehaha Lake Wine and Spirits has been serving the neighborhood since it was legal to sell alcohol, and run by the same family since 1983. Its vintage neon sign is an icon of the area. News cameras caught the looting of the shop happening early in the evening, and expletives spray painted on the exterior... Town Talk Diner possesses another iconic sign of the area, and has been a small family-run restaurant since 2016. This morning, the words, “Kill Cops,” are visible spray-painted on the front door, under the iconic sign. The restaurant had its windows smashed, interior looted, and chairs and tables strewn about." Source. Many more cases in the article. Those innocent victims of these riots should be furious that it has come to this through years of peaceful protests being ignored. Why don't you burn your own house and store rather than elect members of your community as targets for your demonstration. Why do you get to choose who suffers. What a disgusting and self-righteous mindset. It's like you can't even hear your own words. Disgusting and self righteous! Nice If you only you were that furious about the murder that happened the other day. I mean imagine being angrier about a business having to receive insurance money than hundreds of years of of a whole population being killed by the state lol. Disgusting and self righteous indeed. The whole population has not been killed by the state. In fact, black families are overrepresented as welfare recipients by 26.3%. "FY 1999, Non-Hispanic White families made up 30.5% of the [welfare]caseload, African-American families 38.3%, and Hispanic families, 24.5%." Source. Overall, "The rate of dependency for non-Hispanic Blacks is more than six times that of non-Hispanic Whites, and that of Hispanics is more than four times as high." Source. More stats you may find useful. “Of adults arrested for murder, 53% were Black or African American", an overrepresentation of 41%. Source. From 2012-2015, black people represented 22.7% of violent crime offenders, an overrepresentation of 10.7%. White people committed 8.9% (91,470 offenders) of violent crime against black people. Black people committed 17.8% (540,360 offenders) of violent crime against white people. Source. Unfortunately the data is incomplete. "In 2015, 46% of the violent crimes and 19% of the property crimes reported to police were cleared, according to FBI data. 62% of murders and non-negligent homicides in the U.S. were cleared." Source Baltimore, Chicago and New Orleans cleared less than 28% of homicide cases in 2016. Memphis, Detroit, and Indianapolis have similar rates. Source. This is literally what racist argue on Facebook... have you ever thought that it’s possible crime in general is up in poverty stricken areas?? There is no argument, claim, or supposition in my post. Only facts. Interpret them as you please. Dude don't be a pussy with that "I'm not making any argument just stating facts." There are countless facts in this world but we must select which are relevant to the argument at hand. You chose to share that minorities are more likely to receive welfare and commit violent crimes. The context of this was a highly publicized killing of a black man by a white police officer, ensuing riots, and the value of human life vs property. Say what you mean. That post is clear and straight forward to me. I don't see any racist stance in the post, either. Just a good post correctly stating that the fact of the matter is that "the whole population" is not being killed by the "state" as Jockmcplop claimed, followed by facts that many may find useful.
Can you say exactly how 'many people would find those stats useful' in this context?
Seems to me the number 1 use for them is to 'prove' that black people are bad.
Also statistics are not facts.
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On May 31 2020 12:00 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2020 11:24 Stratos_speAr wrote:That story has already been criticized because it is 1) An extremely small sample size 2) Includes people that were arrested but not related to the rioting 3) Many of the people responsible for the damage last night weren't arrested 4) Doesn't include St. Paul (not in Hennepin County) Also, the article itself even mentions several of these problems with the available numbers. People can criticize this as much as they want, but I'll take this not perfect data over the zero data involved in the other statements. Did the Mayor and Governor standby their statements from earlier today and release the data or have they said they just parroted what they were told? Sounds like he is making up numbers from his statement here to me. Start at 50 seconds if the two minute clip is too long for you. + Show Spoiler [CBS Youtube] +
St. Paul mayor corrected himself in a news conference earlier this evening and said that he had the wrong information earlier.
Governor Walz hasn't addressed it again yet (to my knowledge).
Various sources have sifted through the jail numbers and are finding (depending on how you count it) about 33%/33%/33% of arrests being community members (MPLS-St. Paul residents)/out-staters/non-Minnesotans. This also leaves a lot of potential error due to the high number of fake addresses given.
Video evidence has been popping up throughout the afternoon showing that a lot of arsonists have been white people in overwhelmingly black communities, raising questions about who is destroying what.
Various news outlets are converging on reporting that its anti-police/pro-2A groups that are converging on the Cities (and not white supremacists), although I'm suspicious that more links to white supremacy groups will pop up.
Both mayors and police chiefs are anecdotally reporting high numbers of cars w/o license plates being stopped, small groups (<10 people) of armed people riding bikes or scooters being dispersed, etc. Much less activity in the Twin Cities due to quadrupling the police presence. It will be interesting to see the numbers/intel in the coming days.
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Looks like the police are going further than trying to break up the protests and just trying to assert their authority everywhere.
I think some training would not go amiss.
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Police in MPLS started with the tear gas as soon as the curfew took effect.
Video from NY shows police running vehicles into large crowds of pedestrians.
Video from Atlanta shows cops attacking a couple in a car as they're trying to drive home.
LA cops opening up on protesters with tear gas and rubber bullets.
Eye witness reports of KKK members on the streets in the Twin Cities.
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@ChristianS
@Erasme
@Jockmcplop
Well, I took those stats to support the fact that "a whole population" is not being killed "by the state"
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On May 31 2020 10:10 Xxio wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2020 06:01 ShoCkeyy wrote:On May 31 2020 05:17 Xxio wrote:On May 31 2020 01:23 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 31 2020 01:14 puppykiller wrote:On May 31 2020 00:51 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 31 2020 00:38 Xxio wrote:It's really sad to see how the looting and destruction is impacting local businesses and communities. Sometimes it's the small things, like when Dianne Binns of St. Paul was unable to pick up medication for her daughter. Her words of wisdom: “What are people going to do in those communities when they need those resources? We don’t have many stores as it is. So why are we going to burn down the small business owners who are there for us?” SourceThe sports bar of a firefighter and local coach was looted and burned down. The good news is that 611,000 was raised of a 100,000 fundraiser goal to rebuild. I wonder how much honest, hard-working people will have to pay to fix the mess left by rioting thugs. And this is in a time of business closures, when many people are struggling just to hold on to what they have. "Minnehaha Lake Wine and Spirits has been serving the neighborhood since it was legal to sell alcohol, and run by the same family since 1983. Its vintage neon sign is an icon of the area. News cameras caught the looting of the shop happening early in the evening, and expletives spray painted on the exterior... Town Talk Diner possesses another iconic sign of the area, and has been a small family-run restaurant since 2016. This morning, the words, “Kill Cops,” are visible spray-painted on the front door, under the iconic sign. The restaurant had its windows smashed, interior looted, and chairs and tables strewn about." Source. Many more cases in the article. Those innocent victims of these riots should be furious that it has come to this through years of peaceful protests being ignored. Why don't you burn your own house and store rather than elect members of your community as targets for your demonstration. Why do you get to choose who suffers. What a disgusting and self-righteous mindset. It's like you can't even hear your own words. Disgusting and self righteous! Nice If you only you were that furious about the murder that happened the other day. I mean imagine being angrier about a business having to receive insurance money than hundreds of years of of a whole population being killed by the state lol. Disgusting and self righteous indeed. The whole population has not been killed by the state. In fact, black families are overrepresented as welfare recipients by 26.3%. "FY 1999, Non-Hispanic White families made up 30.5% of the [welfare]caseload, African-American families 38.3%, and Hispanic families, 24.5%." Source. Overall, "The rate of dependency for non-Hispanic Blacks is more than six times that of non-Hispanic Whites, and that of Hispanics is more than four times as high." Source. More stats you may find useful. “Of adults arrested for murder, 53% were Black or African American", an overrepresentation of 41%. Source. From 2012-2015, black people represented 22.7% of violent crime offenders, an overrepresentation of 10.7%. White people committed 8.9% (91,470 offenders) of violent crime against black people. Black people committed 17.8% (540,360 offenders) of violent crime against white people. Source. Unfortunately the data is incomplete. "In 2015, 46% of the violent crimes and 19% of the property crimes reported to police were cleared, according to FBI data. 62% of murders and non-negligent homicides in the U.S. were cleared." Source Baltimore, Chicago and New Orleans cleared less than 28% of homicide cases in 2016. Memphis, Detroit, and Indianapolis have similar rates. Source. This is literally what racist argue on Facebook... have you ever thought that it’s possible crime in general is up in poverty stricken areas?? There is no argument, claim, or supposition in my post. Only facts. Interpret them as you please.
Ok, I am just going to assume that your reason for posting those statistics is to show the harm that hundreds of years of subjugation and disenfranchisement has had on Black Americans. Thanks for sharing
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On May 31 2020 13:29 BerserkSword wrote:
@ChristianS
@Erasme
@Jockmcplop
Well, I took those stats to support the fact that "a whole population" is not being killed "by the state"
It's pretty asinine to think every black person is/has been killed. Maybe the word "generation" could have been used. It was hyperbole. And I think you both know that.
Your "facts" only further the argument that Xxio stated before that these are "the worst of society" and the statistics back that claim up. You can massage it all you want, but the post and your defense of it speaks louder than the numbers. You support racist arguments.
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Police and national guard move through someones residential street, and are ordered to open fire (with nonlethals) on someone watching from their own porch. This whole scene is WTF
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On May 31 2020 13:29 BerserkSword wrote:
@ChristianS
@Erasme
@Jockmcplop
Well, I took those stats to support the fact that "a whole population" is not being killed "by the state"
You're obviously a troll if you're going to pretend that you're so dense that you had taken that sentence literally and you needed those stats to disprove it
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On May 31 2020 13:29 BerserkSword wrote:
@ChristianS
@Erasme
@Jockmcplop
Well, I took those stats to support the fact that "a whole population" is not being killed "by the state"
Considering your well argumented answer, I understand how you came to that conclusion.
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On May 31 2020 13:35 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Police and national guard move through someones residential street, and are ordered to open fire (with nonlethals) on someone watching from their own porch. This whole scene is WTF https://twitter.com/tkerssen/status/1266921821653385225
That's really shocking. Wow.
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On May 31 2020 13:29 BerserkSword wrote:
@ChristianS
@Erasme
@Jockmcplop
Well, I took those stats to support the fact that "a whole population" is not being killed "by the state"
But that’s trivially proven by the fact that black people still exist. Welfare rates is an awfully roundabout way to say that black people still exist.
Given that to my knowledge, no TL poster has ever believed black people don’t exist, and Xxio is probably smart enough to know that, don’t you think he had some other point he was making?
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These anecdotes of white people torching black neighborhoods is certainly not true in Chicago. After the normal people left as asked the remaining people stayed to throw shit at cops, loot expensive stores, and burn shit. Now they've moved outward into 2 of the city's richest mixed residential/commercial neighborhoods. The video we are getting is a total 180 from those anecdotes.
Plus, they are implausible anyways, we know what the racist white Yahoo's like to do, they like to pretend to be cops and erect barricades to dare black/antifa into attacking.
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I've been listening to the police scanners the last 4 hours and Chicago has erupted into chaos. The news tomorrow
It's hard to find videos, but I have tweets from the scanner twitter account.
I'm going to be going tomorrow. I was volunteering today, and now I'll be able to go.
I also got to listen live on radio as the convenience store I went to every day in high school was broken into and plundered. A night to remember, indeed.
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PM me where you'll be and I'll meet you there. It's quiet up north 30 minutes out. Mostly a hispanic/latino neighborhood.
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zzz i saw a video of a protester/rioter retrieving a rifle from an abandoned cop car. fortunately a security personnel from a news team was there to disarm him promptly. tonights gonna be a long one. im shocked not more lives have been lost, lets hope it stays that way.
https://twitter.com/CalebJHull/status/1266883740216823814?s=20
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Canada5565 Posts
AP is a good news source for following events. Some of the latest: US authorities say killing of federal security officer during protest in Oakland, California, was domestic terrorism. Multiple shootings in downtown Indianapolis amid protests; one person killed. A 27-year-old woman has been arrested with four counts of attempted murder after throwing a Molotov cocktail at a police cruiser. A twenty-strong mob in Columbia, SC rushed a lone and unarmed man from across a street, harassed him, and chased him around the back of a building. Video from Tariq Nasheed's twitter. Apparently the mob targeted him because he held a MAGA hat.
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It's honestly kinda disturbing for someone with a functioning brain. Both what's happening in some parts of the US, and the discussion here.
There's zero doubt that Floyd was murdered, and that institutionalised racism is part of americas "culture". Always was. If not fully on display, then by slimy worms with suggestive statements, who then throw their arms in the air screeching "just saying, didn't imply anything, just stating the numbers here". All the way from Trump with his looting/shooting statement (yeah, coincidence, sure), to a moderator in some random gaming forum.
I know that a few people here absolutely advocate for violent "protests", i just wonder who they blame once this spirals out of control. Or rather, spirals even more out of control. Who are you going to blame once bullets start flying? And make no mistake, if this keeps going, the shooting will indeed start. People so far got lucky, the shooting started pretty quickly in 1992.
This is absolutely idiotic behaviour both by advocates for violence and the rioters itself. What do you think is going to happen/change? You're not even martyring, because people think you're just criminals looting (which, make no mistake, is a factual statement for quite a few of the rioters).
If that cop would've gone free, then i would've said, okay. That's inexcusable, make some noise. But he got charged, unlike in 1992 where dirty cops went free. This is literally how you need to solve institutionalised racism. Charge and convict racist cops (again, unlike in 1992, where the racist cops got acquitted). Make sure people know that being racist has consequences. The rioting isn't consequential for anyone, all it does is paint a big target on black communities yet again. All it does is that more blacks get thrown into prison, tainting whatever "goal" this is supposed to serve straight from the start.
A racist won't stop saying racist things because in another state black people went to jail for looting. That's absolutely retarded. A racist will stop saying racist things if he goes to jail for it. Cops will stop using excessive force/kill black people if they get life for it.
What needs reforming is the justice system. Rioting does jack shit except destroying the livelihoods of innocent bystanders. You can stand there and beat your chest all you want, you're destroying the lives of people who had nothing to do with it - hell, even fucking black peoples shops are getting looted, how does that even make sense. What is there to be proud about? I'd be ashamed if it was "my people".
Nah, not buying it. Protesting is one thing and understandable - necessary in case of the US, i'd argue. That petty piss that black people are pulling right now has nothing to do with protesting. All that's happening in the US now is giving people an excuse to point fingers at black people, to the point where Floyds murder gets completely drowned out. How retarded is that? The thing that people should really be upset about is barely discussed or addressed. It's all about the riots now. Good job shooting yourself in the face once again, all the while hurting people who have nothing to do with any of it.
Stand proud, i guess. But if you expect respect for it, boy are you mistaken.
To be clear, there's no excuse for the murderer or how the cops are behaving in these riots, in fact, how the majority of cops behave in general. There is institutionalised racism, and that has to be tackled.
Probably not by converting more people into racists though. Here's a question. A person in some state where there's no riots watches the videos of black people looting a shop, giddy like kids, happy for the "free shit". What's his reaction gonna be? Will he say "oh, yeah, i'd do that too, that's normal" - or will he say "look at them black people, i knew they were all criminal"? You're actively breeding prejudice. But what do i know.
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On May 31 2020 14:38 m4ini wrote:
It's honestly kinda disturbing for someone with a functioning brain. Both what's happening in some parts of the US, and the discussion here.
There's zero doubt that Floyd was murdered, and that institutionalised racism is part of americas "culture". Always was. If not fully on display, then by slimy worms with suggestive statements, who then throw their arms in the air screeching "just saying, didn't imply anything, just stating the numbers here". All the way from Trump with his looting/shooting statement (yeah, coincidence, sure), to a moderator in some random gaming forum.
I know that a few people here absolutely advocate for violent "protests", i just wonder who they blame once this spirals out of control. Or rather, spirals even more out of control. Who are you going to blame once bullets start flying? And make no mistake, if this keeps going, the shooting will indeed start. People so far got lucky, the shooting started pretty quickly in 1992.
This is absolutely idiotic behaviour both by advocates for violence and the rioters itself. What do you think is going to happen/change? You're not even martyring, because people think you're just criminals looting (which, make no mistake, is a factual statement for quite a few of the rioters).
If that cop would've gone free, then i would've said, okay. That's inexcusable, make some noise. But he got charged, unlike in 1992 where dirty cops went free. This is literally how you need to solve institutionalised racism. Charge and convict racist cops (again, unlike in 1992, where the racist cops got acquitted). Make sure people know that being racist has consequences. The rioting isn't consequential for anyone, all it does is paint a big target on black communities yet again. All it does is that more blacks get thrown into prison, tainting whatever "goal" this is supposed to serve straight from the start.
A racist won't stop saying racist things because in another state black people went to jail for looting. That's absolutely retarded. A racist will stop saying racist things if he goes to jail for it. Cops will stop using excessive force/kill black people if they get life for it.
What needs reforming is the justice system. Rioting does jack shit except destroying the livelihoods of innocent bystanders. You can stand there and beat your chest all you want, you're destroying the lives of people who had nothing to do with it - hell, even fucking black peoples shops are getting looted, how does that even make sense. What is there to be proud about? I'd be ashamed if it was "my people".
Nah, not buying it. Protesting is one thing and understandable - necessary in case of the US, i'd argue. That petty piss that black people are pulling right now has nothing to do with protesting. All that's happening in the US now is giving people an excuse to point fingers at black people, to the point where Floyds murder gets completely drowned out. How retarded is that? The thing that people should really be upset about is barely discussed or addressed. It's all about the riots now. Good job shooting yourself in the face once again, all the while hurting people who have nothing to do with any of it.
Stand proud, i guess. But if you expect respect for it, boy are you mistaken.
To be clear, there's no excuse for the murderer or how the cops are behaving in these riots, in fact, how the majority of cops behave in general. There is institutionalised racism, and that has to be tackled.
Probably not by converting more people into racists though. Here's a question. A person in some state where there's no riots watches the videos of black people looting a shop, giddy like kids, happy for the "free shit". What's his reaction gonna be? Will he say "oh, yeah, i'd do that too, that's normal" - or will he say "look at them black people, i knew they were all criminal"? You're actively breeding prejudice. But what do i know.
To single out blacks for all of what is going on, is also actively breeding prejudice.
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EPT
