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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 217

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
A3th3r
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
United States319 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-22 21:35:17
May 22 2018 21:34 GMT
#4321
On May 23 2018 02:23 Plansix wrote:
Trump's plan to bail out ZTE seems to be angering all the wrong people


yeah, that doesn't seem like that great of an idea to me either. The guy who did the maintenance at the BMW sports shop said something similar about that topic.
stale trite schlub
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-22 23:19:01
May 22 2018 23:17 GMT
#4322
On May 23 2018 05:58 PhoenixVoid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2018 05:41 farvacola wrote:
Not that Phoenix was doing this, but Golden Mean'ing media outlets a la casually asserting that entities like CNN are just as bad as Fox News is the bread and butter of conservative apologia.

I put in CNN that way because we are all very well aware of the Trump administration's feelings about them. But the AP? They're the least offensive, most milquetoast reporting agency ever with like Reuters and AFP. Only reason I could see them getting banned was over their recent reveal of Trump's Middle East ties, because they rarely, if ever, get into partisanship or opinions.

Trump himself tweeted his definition of 'fake news' is negative news about him and he thinks negative news should have credentials removed. It's not about bias, it's about removing anything negative about him. Facts can still paint a negative picture of him.



He also reportedly admitted as much to a 60minutes reporter


“And at one point he started to attack the press, and it’s just me and my boss and him … he’s attacking the press and there were no cameras, there was nothing going on,” Stahl said.

“And I said, 'You know that is getting tired, why are you doing this? You are doing it over and over, it’s boring, it’s time to end that. You won the nomination, why do you keep hammering at this?' ”

“And he said, ‘You know why I do it? I do it to demean you all and discredit you all, so that when you write negative stories about me no one will believe you,’ ” Stahl said.

Neosteel Enthusiast
Tachion
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada8573 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-22 23:37:35
May 22 2018 23:37 GMT
#4323
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/22/nyregion/michael-cohen-trump-taxi-cooperation.html

Remember when Cohen was raided and part of the justification for it was concerning his taxi medallion? This guy here was facing a maximum of 125 years in jail and he got a deal to cooperate for just 5 years probation and 0 jail time. Imagine the dirt he has on Cohen to get such a deal. If Cohen doesn't flip, he has got to be going down hard.
i was driving down the road this november eve and spotted a hitchhiker walking down the street. i pulled over and saw that it was only a tree. i uprooted it and put it in my trunk. do trees like marshmallow peeps? cause that's all i have and will have.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-22 23:45:31
May 22 2018 23:43 GMT
#4324
On May 23 2018 08:37 Tachion wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/22/nyregion/michael-cohen-trump-taxi-cooperation.html

Remember when Cohen was raided and part of the justification for it was concerning his taxi medallion? This guy here was facing a maximum of 125 years in jail and he got a deal to cooperate for just 5 years probation and 0 jail time. Imagine the dirt he has on Cohen to get such a deal. If Cohen doesn't flip, he has got to be going down hard.

as a note; the maximum someone could get is quite far from the penalty they actually would get; especially with america's oft very high maximum sentences.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 22 2018 23:44 GMT
#4325
Why are they alway Russian?

Also, I had no idea Cohen was this deep into the NY taxi industry. I knew there was a small connection, but not to the level in this article.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-22 23:56:07
May 22 2018 23:53 GMT
#4326
As loathsome as Trump is, it's not like he's wrong. The constant attacks do insult and demean the media he doesn't like and does weaken them (while ironically helping them make money).

People get the leaders they deserve. A better public would see through his horseshit. I mean, it's so threadbare that anyone with two brain cells should be able to see through his deflection strategy.

I do wonder where the US media is going to be after 8 years of this day in day out relentless attacking.
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
May 22 2018 23:59 GMT
#4327
On May 23 2018 08:53 iamthedave wrote:
As loathsome as Trump is, it's not like he's wrong. The constant attacks do insult and demean the media he doesn't like and does weaken them (while ironically helping them make money).

People get the leaders they deserve. A better public would see through his horseshit. I mean, it's so threadbare that anyone with two brain cells should be able to see through his deflection strategy.

I do wonder where the US media is going to be after 8 years of this day in day out relentless attacking.

Not really. People that are staunchly with him were already against them for being liberal leaning before.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-23 00:15:02
May 23 2018 00:14 GMT
#4328
Nixon really pushed the grievance against the liberal media. And then the guy who worked on Nixon’s campaign created Fox News decades later. It is an ever green tactic.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10967 Posts
May 23 2018 00:40 GMT
#4329
I just today visited auswitsch and birkenau... ... If you want a stomache crawl, do it. I right now, 10 hours later can't sleep.

Punching Nazis is A ok. If you disagree (as i did)... Visit. Especially Birkenau. 30 minutes of walking whiteout stopping from one end to the other...

Punching Nazis should be mandatory.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
May 23 2018 01:02 GMT
#4330
On May 23 2018 09:40 Velr wrote:
I just today visited auswitsch and birkenau... ... If you want a stomache crawl, do it. I right now, 10 hours later can't sleep.

Punching Nazis is A ok. If you disagree (as i did)... Visit. Especially Birkenau. 30 minutes of walking whiteout stopping from one end to the other...

Punching Nazis should be mandatory.

Commies killed and starved more. They didn't have the more instantly abhorrent selection of Jews. But nevertheless, the kulaks and the various victims of the gulags and of Mao's great leap forward scream just as loud. The body count from the extermination camp genocide is a rounding error by comparison.

Simply being human should instinctively make you want to punch a Nazi, or a Commie. I think society is nonetheless wiser for thinking twice about condoning the use of violence.

Not that it matters, but I've toured the Washington DC holocaust museum and spoken with survivors there. Some of the exhibits, such as the pile of shoes that includes children's shoes, simply floor you.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 23 2018 01:15 GMT
#4331
As long as they keep their new Nazi shit inside their homes and out of the public, it should be fine. But once they start trying to occupy public spaces via protest or simply trying to take over the local punk scene, it’s time to make them know they are not welcome. Because they have no place in a democratic society. The goal of Nazism is to use the tools of democracy to obtain power and then destroy that democratic system.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Aquanim
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia2849 Posts
May 23 2018 01:31 GMT
#4332
On May 23 2018 10:02 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2018 09:40 Velr wrote:
I just today visited auswitsch and birkenau... ... If you want a stomache crawl, do it. I right now, 10 hours later can't sleep.

Punching Nazis is A ok. If you disagree (as i did)... Visit. Especially Birkenau. 30 minutes of walking whiteout stopping from one end to the other...

Punching Nazis should be mandatory.

Commies killed and starved more. They didn't have the more instantly abhorrent selection of Jews. But nevertheless, the kulaks and the various victims of the gulags and of Mao's great leap forward scream just as loud. The body count from the extermination camp genocide is a rounding error by comparison.

Simply being human should instinctively make you want to punch a Nazi, or a Commie. I think society is nonetheless wiser for thinking twice about condoning the use of violence.

Not that it matters, but I've toured the Washington DC holocaust museum and spoken with survivors there. Some of the exhibits, such as the pile of shoes that includes children's shoes, simply floor you.

The distinguishing feature is that not everybody who calls themselves a Communist identifies with the policies and actions of the USSR or the PRC. I'm unaware of any Nazis who don't identify with Hitler's Germany.
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28909 Posts
May 23 2018 01:40 GMT
#4333
On May 23 2018 10:02 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2018 09:40 Velr wrote:
I just today visited auswitsch and birkenau... ... If you want a stomache crawl, do it. I right now, 10 hours later can't sleep.

Punching Nazis is A ok. If you disagree (as i did)... Visit. Especially Birkenau. 30 minutes of walking whiteout stopping from one end to the other...

Punching Nazis should be mandatory.

Commies killed and starved more. They didn't have the more instantly abhorrent selection of Jews. But nevertheless, the kulaks and the various victims of the gulags and of Mao's great leap forward scream just as loud. The body count from the extermination camp genocide is a rounding error by comparison.

Simply being human should instinctively make you want to punch a Nazi, or a Commie. I think society is nonetheless wiser for thinking twice about condoning the use of violence.

Not that it matters, but I've toured the Washington DC holocaust museum and spoken with survivors there. Some of the exhibits, such as the pile of shoes that includes children's shoes, simply floor you.


Modern day communists do not support Stalin, Gulags, Mao's leap forward, Pol Pot, or well, any of the abhorrent policies practiced by regimes claiming to be communist. They consider these regimes as communist as we consider North Korea 'Democratic'.

Modern day nazis support Hitler. Some will argue that the holocaust was exaggerated. But they celebrate Hitler and the idea of segregating people according to ethnicity.

I still don't condone punching nazis though, I don't really think that's a productive way of dealing with people who harbor idiotic and dangerous ideas. But the equivalence between people who describe themselves as communist and the people who describe themselves as nazis is entirely false, because only one of these groups today distances themselves from the atrocious actions of regimes self-describing as communist or national-socialist. If you find a guy who describes himself as a Stalinist or Maoist, the equivalence has merit to it, but I know many self-described communists - none are even remotely positively inclined towards any of these regimes.
Moderator
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 23 2018 01:53 GMT
#4334
There is a huge difference between seeing someone you know to be a Nazi and seeing a group of Nazis attempt to hold some sort of rally. And much like the recent "Free Speech" rally, the Nazis don't really flat out say they are going there to promote Nazi beliefs. Because Nazis lie openly and constantly, including about being Nazis. Or that they don't get along with other hate groups when they really do.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-23 02:21:00
May 23 2018 02:19 GMT
#4335
On May 23 2018 10:40 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2018 10:02 Danglars wrote:
On May 23 2018 09:40 Velr wrote:
I just today visited auswitsch and birkenau... ... If you want a stomache crawl, do it. I right now, 10 hours later can't sleep.

Punching Nazis is A ok. If you disagree (as i did)... Visit. Especially Birkenau. 30 minutes of walking whiteout stopping from one end to the other...

Punching Nazis should be mandatory.

Commies killed and starved more. They didn't have the more instantly abhorrent selection of Jews. But nevertheless, the kulaks and the various victims of the gulags and of Mao's great leap forward scream just as loud. The body count from the extermination camp genocide is a rounding error by comparison.

Simply being human should instinctively make you want to punch a Nazi, or a Commie. I think society is nonetheless wiser for thinking twice about condoning the use of violence.

Not that it matters, but I've toured the Washington DC holocaust museum and spoken with survivors there. Some of the exhibits, such as the pile of shoes that includes children's shoes, simply floor you.


Modern day communists do not support Stalin, Gulags, Mao's leap forward, Pol Pot, or well, any of the abhorrent policies practiced by regimes claiming to be communist. They consider these regimes as communist as we consider North Korea 'Democratic'.

Modern day nazis support Hitler. Some will argue that the holocaust was exaggerated. But they celebrate Hitler and the idea of segregating people according to ethnicity.

I still don't condone punching nazis though, I don't really think that's a productive way of dealing with people who harbor idiotic and dangerous ideas. But the equivalence between people who describe themselves as communist and the people who describe themselves as nazis is entirely false, because only one of these groups today distances themselves from the atrocious actions of regimes self-describing as communist or national-socialist. If you find a guy who describes himself as a Stalinist or Maoist, the equivalence has merit to it, but I know many self-described communists - none are even remotely positively inclined towards any of these regimes.

They do well to denounce their predecessors in that horrid ideology. I think they should go a step further and renounce the ideology, and recognize that murderous dictatorships are an unfortunate but inevitable side effect of that system gaining power. I hope they never seize power again anywhere in Europe to give the successors of your perspective just another name that is disavowed by the next reinvented communist ideology. I'd say the same to anyone with comparable gumption to allege real Nazism has never been tried, had that been the intellectual's choice instead of rallying around Hitler's interpretation.

I don't think the differences in how modern adherents differ in their treatment of past adherents materially affects the destruction and evil at their core. But that's just me, and it doesn't give me the right to punch Nazis, Commies, or approve of those that do.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Aquanim
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia2849 Posts
May 23 2018 03:55 GMT
#4336
On May 23 2018 11:19 Danglars wrote:...recognize that murderous dictatorships are an unfortunate but inevitable side effect of that system gaining power...

If you were going to punch people in the face, you'd be doing it essentially becaue they disagree with your opinion on this point... which seems pretty petty.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
May 23 2018 05:31 GMT
#4337
On May 23 2018 12:55 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2018 11:19 Danglars wrote:...recognize that murderous dictatorships are an unfortunate but inevitable side effect of that system gaining power...

If you were going to punch people in the face, you'd be doing it essentially becaue they disagree with your opinion on this point... which seems pretty petty.


I was going to post something quoting this line actually. The statement really has no proof whatsoever.
a_flayer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands2826 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-23 08:16:48
May 23 2018 06:56 GMT
#4338
Well, this certainly looks like it has the potential to grow into some kind of creepy combination of Brave New World and 1984:
Facebook announced on Thursday that it is launching a partnership with the Atlantic Council to boost its global election security efforts.

Experts from the international think tank’s Digital Forensic Research Lab will help provide Facebook “real-time insights and updates on emerging threats and disinformation campaigns from around the world.”

Facebook said it will also use the Atlantic Council’s Digital Research Unit Monitoring Missions during elections and other “highly sensitive moments,” according to a post written by Facebook’s global politics and government outreach director, Katie Harbath.
Source

I'm seriously concerned on how this is going to shape society and public opinion in the long run -- in that it will become very uniformly in accordance with the US government perspective. If it was Russian think tanks being put in a position of influencing the Russian population like this, I'm sure it would be considered government propaganda. I also think I have reason to be concerned that -- if I were on Facebook -- I'd be flagged as a foreign agent by this group.

Sort of like what's been happening in Bulgaria:
A week ago, Twitter announced it would become more aggressive in pursuing trolls on its service, a move which seems to have had some unforeseen consequences, judging by the present upheaval in the Bulgarian Twitter community. An increasingly large and unhappy number of people have had their Twitter accounts suspended and messages filtered out of conversations, apparently for the offense of merely tweeting in Cyrillic.
When you came along so righteous with a new national hate, so convincing is the ardor of war and of men, it's harder to breathe than to believe you're a friend. The wars at home, the wars abroad, all soaked in blood and lies and fraud.
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France8201 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-23 07:26:43
May 23 2018 06:59 GMT
#4339
On May 23 2018 10:40 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2018 10:02 Danglars wrote:
On May 23 2018 09:40 Velr wrote:
I just today visited auswitsch and birkenau... ... If you want a stomache crawl, do it. I right now, 10 hours later can't sleep.

Punching Nazis is A ok. If you disagree (as i did)... Visit. Especially Birkenau. 30 minutes of walking whiteout stopping from one end to the other...

Punching Nazis should be mandatory.

Commies killed and starved more. They didn't have the more instantly abhorrent selection of Jews. But nevertheless, the kulaks and the various victims of the gulags and of Mao's great leap forward scream just as loud. The body count from the extermination camp genocide is a rounding error by comparison.

Simply being human should instinctively make you want to punch a Nazi, or a Commie. I think society is nonetheless wiser for thinking twice about condoning the use of violence.

Not that it matters, but I've toured the Washington DC holocaust museum and spoken with survivors there. Some of the exhibits, such as the pile of shoes that includes children's shoes, simply floor you.


Modern day communists do not support Stalin, Gulags, Mao's leap forward, Pol Pot, or well, any of the abhorrent policies practiced by regimes claiming to be communist. They consider these regimes as communist as we consider North Korea 'Democratic'.

Modern day nazis support Hitler. Some will argue that the holocaust was exaggerated. But they celebrate Hitler and the idea of segregating people according to ethnicity.

I still don't condone punching nazis though, I don't really think that's a productive way of dealing with people who harbor idiotic and dangerous ideas. But the equivalence between people who describe themselves as communist and the people who describe themselves as nazis is entirely false, because only one of these groups today distances themselves from the atrocious actions of regimes self-describing as communist or national-socialist. If you find a guy who describes himself as a Stalinist or Maoist, the equivalence has merit to it, but I know many self-described communists - none are even remotely positively inclined towards any of these regimes.

The thing that Danglar pretends to ignore there is that nazism was a success while communism was a failure. Nazis wanted extermination, Auschwitz, totalitarianism and war all along. That’s what they were here to do, that was the program and that’s what they did. And they haven’t changed.

Communism is a completely different story, one of an ideology that failed. Gulags, Stalin, soviet oppression, Pol Pot and the endless list of horrors are not the program of Das Kapital. They are a consequence of utterly failing to put it in practice, because of the internal contradictions it contains. The fact that communists wanted the abolition of the state, while the communist experience have resulted in the greatest state power abuses of the XXth century speaks volume.

So yep, the moral equivalence between communism as such and nazism is as dumb as ever and saying that being a nazi or believing in the communist ideals is equivalent is, well, I would say to avoid ad hominem, typical.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
Wegandi
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2455 Posts
May 23 2018 07:18 GMT
#4340
On May 23 2018 15:59 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2018 10:40 Liquid`Drone wrote:
On May 23 2018 10:02 Danglars wrote:
On May 23 2018 09:40 Velr wrote:
I just today visited auswitsch and birkenau... ... If you want a stomache crawl, do it. I right now, 10 hours later can't sleep.

Punching Nazis is A ok. If you disagree (as i did)... Visit. Especially Birkenau. 30 minutes of walking whiteout stopping from one end to the other...

Punching Nazis should be mandatory.

Commies killed and starved more. They didn't have the more instantly abhorrent selection of Jews. But nevertheless, the kulaks and the various victims of the gulags and of Mao's great leap forward scream just as loud. The body count from the extermination camp genocide is a rounding error by comparison.

Simply being human should instinctively make you want to punch a Nazi, or a Commie. I think society is nonetheless wiser for thinking twice about condoning the use of violence.

Not that it matters, but I've toured the Washington DC holocaust museum and spoken with survivors there. Some of the exhibits, such as the pile of shoes that includes children's shoes, simply floor you.


Modern day communists do not support Stalin, Gulags, Mao's leap forward, Pol Pot, or well, any of the abhorrent policies practiced by regimes claiming to be communist. They consider these regimes as communist as we consider North Korea 'Democratic'.

Modern day nazis support Hitler. Some will argue that the holocaust was exaggerated. But they celebrate Hitler and the idea of segregating people according to ethnicity.

I still don't condone punching nazis though, I don't really think that's a productive way of dealing with people who harbor idiotic and dangerous ideas. But the equivalence between people who describe themselves as communist and the people who describe themselves as nazis is entirely false, because only one of these groups today distances themselves from the atrocious actions of regimes self-describing as communist or national-socialist. If you find a guy who describes himself as a Stalinist or Maoist, the equivalence has merit to it, but I know many self-described communists - none are even remotely positively inclined towards any of these regimes.

The thing that Danglar pretends to ignore there is that nazism was a success while communism was a failure. Nazis wanted extermination, Auschwitz, totalitarianism and war all along. That’s what they were here to do, that was the program. And they still do.

Communism is a completely different story, one of an ideology that failed. Gulags, Stalin, soviet oppression, Pol Pot and the endless list of horrors are not the program of Das Kapital. They are a consequence of utterly failing to put it in practice, because of the internal contradictions it contains. The fact that communists wanted the abolition of the state, while the communist experience have resulted in the greatest state power abuses of the XXth century speaks volume.

So yep, the moral equivalence between communism as such and nazism is as dumb as ever and saying that being a nazi or believing in the communist ideals is equivalent is, well, I would say to avoid ad hominem, typical.


I think intention doesn't matter to the tens of millions killed under Communism. Why is intention the barometer of evilness? Is someone who intended to kill and murder 10 people worse, than someone indiscriminately killing a thousand for a "good cause"? In the end, if you could ask those killed, I'd imagine they'd say the distinction is moot.
Thank you bureaucrats for all your hard work, your commitment to public service and public good is essential to the lives of so many. Also, for Pete's sake can we please get some gun control already, no need for hand guns and assault rifles for the public
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