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On March 01 2020 11:58 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2020 11:41 JimmiC wrote:
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Is there some group effort by the "capitalist elite" to team up and stop Bernie, no. ... I know you don't accept class analysis as a viable framing, but your opinion on this will only increasingly conflict with what people see/experience daily, despite the discomfort it causes. I'll leave it at that. Steyer is out after finishing 3rd in SC.
Sanders is the big fear and everything reasonable will be tried to stop him. There doesnt even need to be a conspiracy to try keep him from becoming the democratic candidate,its natural behaviour.
Trump placing pence as head of the corona virus battle. A smart move,trump sees what lies ahead and he wants as little responsibility as possible so pence is the ultimate lightning rod. I dont recall this happening before in history,a president placing the vice president in charge of an important situation. (if anyone knows an example? )
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On March 01 2020 21:42 pmh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2020 11:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 01 2020 11:41 JimmiC wrote:
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Is there some group effort by the "capitalist elite" to team up and stop Bernie, no. ... I know you don't accept class analysis as a viable framing, but your opinion on this will only increasingly conflict with what people see/experience daily, despite the discomfort it causes. I'll leave it at that. Steyer is out after finishing 3rd in SC. Sanders is the big fear and everything reasonable will be tried to stop him. There doesnt even need to be a conspiracy to try keep him from becoming the democratic candidate,its natural behaviour. Trump placing pence as head of the corona virus battle. A smart move,trump sees what lies ahead and he wants as little responsibility as possible so pence is the ultimate lightning rod. I dont recall this happening before in history,a president placing the vice president in charge of an important situation. (if anyone knows an example? )
No one is going to blame Pence instead of Trump.
Trump will absolutely take the full blame is there is blame to be had.
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On March 02 2020 00:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2020 21:42 pmh wrote:On March 01 2020 11:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 01 2020 11:41 JimmiC wrote:
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Is there some group effort by the "capitalist elite" to team up and stop Bernie, no. ... I know you don't accept class analysis as a viable framing, but your opinion on this will only increasingly conflict with what people see/experience daily, despite the discomfort it causes. I'll leave it at that. Steyer is out after finishing 3rd in SC. Sanders is the big fear and everything reasonable will be tried to stop him. There doesnt even need to be a conspiracy to try keep him from becoming the democratic candidate,its natural behaviour. Trump placing pence as head of the corona virus battle. A smart move,trump sees what lies ahead and he wants as little responsibility as possible so pence is the ultimate lightning rod. I dont recall this happening before in history,a president placing the vice president in charge of an important situation. (if anyone knows an example? ) No one is going to blame Pence instead of Trump. Trump will absolutely take the full blame is there is blame to be had. Trump supports will blame Pence because they are Trump supporters. And that is all that matters.
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Trump supporters would not blame Trump anyways. They will always find someone else.
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On March 02 2020 00:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2020 21:42 pmh wrote:On March 01 2020 11:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 01 2020 11:41 JimmiC wrote:
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Is there some group effort by the "capitalist elite" to team up and stop Bernie, no. ... I know you don't accept class analysis as a viable framing, but your opinion on this will only increasingly conflict with what people see/experience daily, despite the discomfort it causes. I'll leave it at that. Steyer is out after finishing 3rd in SC. Sanders is the big fear and everything reasonable will be tried to stop him. There doesnt even need to be a conspiracy to try keep him from becoming the democratic candidate,its natural behaviour. Trump placing pence as head of the corona virus battle. A smart move,trump sees what lies ahead and he wants as little responsibility as possible so pence is the ultimate lightning rod. I dont recall this happening before in history,a president placing the vice president in charge of an important situation. (if anyone knows an example? ) No one is going to blame Pence instead of Trump. Trump will absolutely take the full blame is there is blame to be had.
I am not sure trump will take the blame for it and i am not sure he should either. If you look at it then it isnt trumps fault,like what could he reasonably have done better? I can not think of anything really.
He actually was in favor of stronger containment (when it came to flying back people from infected areas) but eventually did follow the advice of health officials.
Also i think the democrats would maybe do best to leave it out the political discussion completely for now. Its a natural disaster which effects the whole country and for which noone can be blamed. Events like this tend to unite countries behind their leader,solidarity in difficult times and such. Putting a lot of emphasisis on the handling of the corona crisis might backfire severely. its sort of anti patriotic,critisizing the leader during a national "crisis" for which he can not really be blamed at all.
The only "benefit" i can see for the democrats is that an event like this makes people more aware of the healthcare situation in the usa which could be a boost to someone with a very progressive reform plan for healthcare (like sanders).
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On March 02 2020 03:16 Simberto wrote:
Trump supporters would not blame Trump anyways. They will always find someone else.
The deep state medical complex sabotaged Trump's effort to save lives and allowed coronavirus to kill Americans.
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On March 02 2020 03:27 pmh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2020 00:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On March 01 2020 21:42 pmh wrote:On March 01 2020 11:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 01 2020 11:41 JimmiC wrote:
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Is there some group effort by the "capitalist elite" to team up and stop Bernie, no. ... I know you don't accept class analysis as a viable framing, but your opinion on this will only increasingly conflict with what people see/experience daily, despite the discomfort it causes. I'll leave it at that. Steyer is out after finishing 3rd in SC. Sanders is the big fear and everything reasonable will be tried to stop him. There doesnt even need to be a conspiracy to try keep him from becoming the democratic candidate,its natural behaviour. Trump placing pence as head of the corona virus battle. A smart move,trump sees what lies ahead and he wants as little responsibility as possible so pence is the ultimate lightning rod. I dont recall this happening before in history,a president placing the vice president in charge of an important situation. (if anyone knows an example? ) No one is going to blame Pence instead of Trump. Trump will absolutely take the full blame is there is blame to be had. I am not sure trump will take the blame for it and i am not sure he should either. If you look at it then it isnt trumps fault,like what could he reasonably have done better? I can not think of anything really. He actually was in favor of stronger containment (when it came to flying back people from infected areas) but eventually did follow the advice of health officials. Also i think the democrats would maybe do best to leave it out the political discussion completely for now. Its a natural disaster which effects the whole country and for which noone can be blamed. Events like this tend to unite countries behind their leader,solidarity in difficult times and such. Putting a lot of emphasisis on the handling of the corona crisis might backfire severely. its sort of anti patriotic,critisizing the leader during a national "crisis" for which he can not really be blamed at all. The only "benefit" i can see for the democrats is that an event like this makes people more aware of the healthcare situation in the usa which could be a boost to someone with a very progressive reform plan for healthcare (like sanders).
Not cut the pandemic preparation team two years ago.
Take scientists seriously instead of being one of the most corrupt administrations this country has ever seen.
Not put an anti-science Christian fundamentalist as the head of his response.
Not constantly lie to the public about what is going on.
This could easily turn into Trump's Katrina. Just because it's a natural disaster doesn't mean a politician doesn't warrant complaints. Bush was roasted for his horrible response to Katrina and deservedly so. This could go the same way for Trump.
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Northern Ireland26036 Posts
On March 02 2020 04:51 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2020 03:27 pmh wrote:On March 02 2020 00:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On March 01 2020 21:42 pmh wrote:On March 01 2020 11:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 01 2020 11:41 JimmiC wrote:
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Is there some group effort by the "capitalist elite" to team up and stop Bernie, no. ... I know you don't accept class analysis as a viable framing, but your opinion on this will only increasingly conflict with what people see/experience daily, despite the discomfort it causes. I'll leave it at that. Steyer is out after finishing 3rd in SC. Sanders is the big fear and everything reasonable will be tried to stop him. There doesnt even need to be a conspiracy to try keep him from becoming the democratic candidate,its natural behaviour. Trump placing pence as head of the corona virus battle. A smart move,trump sees what lies ahead and he wants as little responsibility as possible so pence is the ultimate lightning rod. I dont recall this happening before in history,a president placing the vice president in charge of an important situation. (if anyone knows an example? ) No one is going to blame Pence instead of Trump. Trump will absolutely take the full blame is there is blame to be had. I am not sure trump will take the blame for it and i am not sure he should either. If you look at it then it isnt trumps fault,like what could he reasonably have done better? I can not think of anything really. He actually was in favor of stronger containment (when it came to flying back people from infected areas) but eventually did follow the advice of health officials. Also i think the democrats would maybe do best to leave it out the political discussion completely for now. Its a natural disaster which effects the whole country and for which noone can be blamed. Events like this tend to unite countries behind their leader,solidarity in difficult times and such. Putting a lot of emphasisis on the handling of the corona crisis might backfire severely. its sort of anti patriotic,critisizing the leader during a national "crisis" for which he can not really be blamed at all. The only "benefit" i can see for the democrats is that an event like this makes people more aware of the healthcare situation in the usa which could be a boost to someone with a very progressive reform plan for healthcare (like sanders). Not cut the pandemic preparation team two years ago. Take scientists seriously instead of being one of the most corrupt administrations this country has ever seen. Not put an anti-science Christian fundamentalist as the head of his response. Not constantly lie to the public about what is going on. This could easily turn into Trump's Katrina. Just because it's a natural disaster doesn't mean a politician doesn't warrant complaints. Bush was roasted for his horrible response to Katrina and deservedly so. This could go the same way for Trump.
I’d still take Pence over Trump here as long as it doesn’t turn out the corona virus is gay, or not a Christian, then I’d be more worried. I mean he’s anti-science as it pertains to certain areas sure, that’s still preferable to Trump’s seemingly pathological ability to overrule all forms of expertise on a whim.
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On March 02 2020 00:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2020 21:42 pmh wrote:On March 01 2020 11:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 01 2020 11:41 JimmiC wrote:
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Is there some group effort by the "capitalist elite" to team up and stop Bernie, no. ... I know you don't accept class analysis as a viable framing, but your opinion on this will only increasingly conflict with what people see/experience daily, despite the discomfort it causes. I'll leave it at that. Steyer is out after finishing 3rd in SC. Sanders is the big fear and everything reasonable will be tried to stop him. There doesnt even need to be a conspiracy to try keep him from becoming the democratic candidate,its natural behaviour. Trump placing pence as head of the corona virus battle. A smart move,trump sees what lies ahead and he wants as little responsibility as possible so pence is the ultimate lightning rod. I dont recall this happening before in history,a president placing the vice president in charge of an important situation. (if anyone knows an example? ) No one is going to blame Pence instead of Trump. Trump will absolutely take the full blame is there is blame to be had.
When has this ever happened ?
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On March 02 2020 05:55 Erasme wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2020 00:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On March 01 2020 21:42 pmh wrote:On March 01 2020 11:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 01 2020 11:41 JimmiC wrote:
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Is there some group effort by the "capitalist elite" to team up and stop Bernie, no. ... I know you don't accept class analysis as a viable framing, but your opinion on this will only increasingly conflict with what people see/experience daily, despite the discomfort it causes. I'll leave it at that. Steyer is out after finishing 3rd in SC. Sanders is the big fear and everything reasonable will be tried to stop him. There doesnt even need to be a conspiracy to try keep him from becoming the democratic candidate,its natural behaviour. Trump placing pence as head of the corona virus battle. A smart move,trump sees what lies ahead and he wants as little responsibility as possible so pence is the ultimate lightning rod. I dont recall this happening before in history,a president placing the vice president in charge of an important situation. (if anyone knows an example? ) No one is going to blame Pence instead of Trump. Trump will absolutely take the full blame is there is blame to be had. When has this ever happened ?
To the extent that blame can be given, no one is going to absolve Trump and blame Pence.
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The last four years suggest that, actually, all of his supporters are going to absolve Trump and blame foreigners and George Soros.
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On March 02 2020 04:51 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2020 03:27 pmh wrote:On March 02 2020 00:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On March 01 2020 21:42 pmh wrote:On March 01 2020 11:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 01 2020 11:41 JimmiC wrote:
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Is there some group effort by the "capitalist elite" to team up and stop Bernie, no. ... I know you don't accept class analysis as a viable framing, but your opinion on this will only increasingly conflict with what people see/experience daily, despite the discomfort it causes. I'll leave it at that. Steyer is out after finishing 3rd in SC. Sanders is the big fear and everything reasonable will be tried to stop him. There doesnt even need to be a conspiracy to try keep him from becoming the democratic candidate,its natural behaviour. Trump placing pence as head of the corona virus battle. A smart move,trump sees what lies ahead and he wants as little responsibility as possible so pence is the ultimate lightning rod. I dont recall this happening before in history,a president placing the vice president in charge of an important situation. (if anyone knows an example? ) No one is going to blame Pence instead of Trump. Trump will absolutely take the full blame is there is blame to be had. I am not sure trump will take the blame for it and i am not sure he should either. If you look at it then it isnt trumps fault,like what could he reasonably have done better? I can not think of anything really. He actually was in favor of stronger containment (when it came to flying back people from infected areas) but eventually did follow the advice of health officials. Also i think the democrats would maybe do best to leave it out the political discussion completely for now. Its a natural disaster which effects the whole country and for which noone can be blamed. Events like this tend to unite countries behind their leader,solidarity in difficult times and such. Putting a lot of emphasisis on the handling of the corona crisis might backfire severely. its sort of anti patriotic,critisizing the leader during a national "crisis" for which he can not really be blamed at all. The only "benefit" i can see for the democrats is that an event like this makes people more aware of the healthcare situation in the usa which could be a boost to someone with a very progressive reform plan for healthcare (like sanders). Not cut the pandemic preparation team two years ago. Take scientists seriously instead of being one of the most corrupt administrations this country has ever seen. Not put an anti-science Christian fundamentalist as the head of his response. Not constantly lie to the public about what is going on. This could easily turn into Trump's Katrina. Just because it's a natural disaster doesn't mean a politician doesn't warrant complaints. Bush was roasted for his horrible response to Katrina and deservedly so. This could go the same way for Trump.
As someone from Louisiana who went through Katrina, it wasn't just Bush's fault. Governor Blanco made mistakes and Nagin made mistakes. This was openly taught in the public school when we returned to school. Problems with communication between Bush and Blanco about FEMA, to Blanco crying on television during the crisis, to Nagin with the buses. As an engineering student in Louisiana, we even covered in detailed how the levee's failed in multiple classes. How politics got involved resulting in funding for the levees being cut. How workers were using blueprints from 40 years prior to construction date since there were so many delay (the ground changed over the years, which caused some levees to be higher than others).
I believe post-Katrina is when most people were united the most (at least in my area) politically. We all objectively discussed the problems with politicians from both parties and actually unanimously agreed that is was a failure on multiple levels and across both parties.
Everybody noticed the increase crime rates from refugees that fled New Orleans. Houston got the largest increase in crime rate. Note, the crime rate in New Orleans was extremely high back then. Multiple people were getting murdered daily. More deaths than a war zone. Now what people thought outside of Louisiana at that time, I don't know. I was out of school for a month and the only communication we had was a radio, where I distinctly remember someone from a nearby parish (it was either St. Bernard or Plaquemine Parish - I don't fully recall) calling out for help on the radio. Most of the attention was on New Orleans and not the surrounding areas. They were practically begging for help.
Also, who do you consider to be "scientist"?
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On March 02 2020 06:59 JimmiC wrote:
The way I think of Trump supporters is like die hard fans of a team. It can be the coaches fault or the GM but they are still cheering for that team not matter what. I have no idea what it would take to stop that faith, because it has somehow transformed into faith.
Yeah, one of the Trump supporters wrote a song where he said what it would take for him to vote democrat.
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Canada5565 Posts
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It's interesting that 21% of Pete supporters have Bernie as a second choice (19% Biden / 19% Warren). I'm guessing he's feeling pressure to go out before Super Tuesday to "consolidate the moderate vote" but I don't expect the move to do much in that department.
It could still work since that poll had Bloomberg at 17% and maybe Bloomberg has fallen off in the meantime. Heh, I don't know. There's a world in which this has an impact
Edit: also could help others get more than 15% in California and ensure Bernie doesn't get all the delegates. It makes a lot of sense actually.
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Interesting, I expected him to hold out until Super Tuesday at least. Guessing either the money ran out or he just sees it as a more favorable option to drop now than to lose another 15 races.
About time for Warren to get the memo as well...
On March 02 2020 08:30 Nebuchad wrote:It's interesting that 21% of Pete supporters have Bernie as a second choice (19% Biden / 19% Warren). I'm guessing he's feeling pressure to go out before Super Tuesday to "consolidate the moderate vote" but I don't expect the move to do much in that department. It could still work since that poll had Bloomberg at 17% and maybe Bloomberg has fallen off in the meantime. Heh, I don't know. There's a world in which this has an impact Edit: also could help others get more than 15% in California and ensure Bernie doesn't get all the delegates. It makes a lot of sense actually.
I honestly expect the voters of every dropout candidate to be split roughly evenly among those who remain, or at least proportionally to the existing support for the leading candidates. I'm certain that both Biden and Sanders have ceilings of support significantly higher than their current vote tally, for example; the wide field just divides that support among the also-rans.
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On March 02 2020 08:52 LegalLord wrote:Interesting, I expected him to hold out until Super Tuesday at least. Guessing either the money ran out or he just sees it as a more favorable option to drop now than to lose another 15 races. About time for Warren to get the memo as well... If the DNC really wants to stop Bernie it makes sense for them to pressure Warren to stay in the race for as long as she can
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With third place gone, this really is a two-person race, unless Bloomberg performs well on Tuesday.
Any ideas as to why the other irrelevant candidates haven't dropped out yet? Klobuchar and Warren and Gabbard have zero chance... The only reasons why they might stick around is for additional political exposure, to stop Bernie by trying to force a brokered convention, or to leverage their positions to bargain for a VP/ Cabinet spot imo. Thoughts?
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EPT
