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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23671 Posts
On February 23 2020 22:00 Nakajin wrote: I think you're right after Super Thuseday, actually if he win SC coming into ST, he could maybe just win every single state nomination all the way to the convention. Warren wants to stay in but losing Mass. could cost her senate seat and any chance in Bernie's administration. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15742 Posts
This video is perhaps the most satisfying video I have seen the entire election. I don't remember tasting anything this delicious. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On February 23 2020 15:18 JimmiC wrote: So you are saying the Dems have created a win/win for themselves. If Bernie wins great they have the presidency. If Bernie loses the moderates can say , "see progressives are not electable for presidency". It's, theoretically, the same problem as with Trump: they have the presidency, but the outsider populist not gets to remake the party in his own image. The Dems would no more be able to ditch Sanders than Reps are to ditch Trump given their undying base of support. Potentially that's a big problem if Sanders ends up being not a corporatist and interventionist as Trump is. | ||
Falling
Canada11435 Posts
On February 23 2020 11:48 RenSC2 wrote: From the clip, the Chris Matthews thing is not comparing Bernie to Nazi Germany. It’s comparing the punditry to Churchill not accepting that it was over, when it was clearly over. Unless there is more context, the Matthews message isn’t even anti-Bernie. It’s just calling the election (or Nevada, not sure the context there). Yeah, this is the better read. Chris is calling the GG, while others are going for the Fantasy GG. It's over, as in Bernie's got this. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15742 Posts
Seeing this on MSNBC is a really encouraging moment for me. Imagine a world where the mainstream media gives Bernie a fair shot? What if they start doing stuff like "so it turns out society saves a bunch of money by streamlining medical billing" | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
The same shit that the dude was saying in that clip was said 4 years ago. "How could this happen? Why would they elect Trump?" None of this shit is new. The Republicans did it in the past 10 years (becoming more ideologically driven and extreme). People's lives suck and they're pissed. The majority of the young and the working poor see the politics and politicians of the past generations as abject failures. Jesus fucking Christ look outside a fucking window for once. This shouldn't be a surprise. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
On February 24 2020 02:43 Stratos_speAr wrote: It blows my mind that the Democratic party establishment is so stupid. The same shit that the dude was saying in that clip was said 4 years ago. "How could this happen? Why would they elect Trump?" None of this shit is new. The Republicans did it in the past 10 years (becoming more ideologically driven and extreme). People's lives suck and they're pissed. The majority of the young and the working poor see the politics and politicians of the past generations as abject failures. Jesus fucking Christ look outside a fucking window for once. This shouldn't be a surprise. EGADS, look out the window? At the poor, huddled masses, covered in their... filth, the ichor of poverty? To gaze upon those without the foresight to have been born moneyed?! Have you no empathy! | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23671 Posts
On February 24 2020 02:43 Stratos_speAr wrote: It blows my mind that the Democratic party establishment is so stupid. The same shit that the dude was saying in that clip was said 4 years ago. "How could this happen? Why would they elect Trump?" None of this shit is new. The Republicans did it in the past 10 years (becoming more ideologically driven and extreme). People's lives suck and they're pissed. The majority of the young and the working poor see the politics and politicians of the past generations as abject failures. Jesus fucking Christ look outside a fucking window for once. This shouldn't be a surprise. The thing is, the people that don't see it are surrounded by other people that don't see it. This is what the "twitter isn't real life" stuff has been about. At their cocktail parties, yoga classes, opera houses, award shows, etc... they have been all agreeing about how foolish Bernie supporters and that wing of the party was. Much like this place was in 2016 and for a while after. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15742 Posts
On February 24 2020 02:48 GreenHorizons wrote: The thing is, the people that don't see it are surrounded by other people that don't see it. This is what the "twitter isn't real life" stuff has been about. At their cocktail parties, yoga classes, opera houses, award shows, etc... they have been all agreeing about how foolish Bernie supporters and that wing of the party was. Much like this place was in 2016 and for a while after. Yeah I was a total idiot. 100% | ||
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TomatoBisque
United States6290 Posts
On February 24 2020 02:48 GreenHorizons wrote: The thing is, the people that don't see it are surrounded by other people that don't see it. This is what the "twitter isn't real life" stuff has been about. At their cocktail parties, yoga classes, opera houses, award shows, etc... they have been all agreeing about how foolish Bernie supporters and that wing of the party was. Much like this place was in 2016 and for a while after. They're completely out of touch at best, but I'm sure many of them know exactly what this means and how it threatens their power, and that's what upsets them most. It's telling that they treat Bernie like a bigger threat than Trump. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15742 Posts
On February 24 2020 03:20 TomatoBisque wrote: They're completely out of touch at best, but I'm sure many of them know exactly what this means and how it threatens their power, and that's what upsets them most. It's telling that they treat Bernie like a bigger threat than Trump. How likely is Chris Matthews to have a job in a Bernie presidency? Not very. | ||
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Howie_Dewitt
United States1416 Posts
On February 24 2020 03:33 Mohdoo wrote: How likely is Chris Matthews to have a job in a Bernie presidency? Not very. At least living standards for unemployed people have a chance to rise under him lmao | ||
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ChristianS
United States3304 Posts
On February 24 2020 02:33 LegalLord wrote: So, just had a thought: is anyone who posts here supporting any Dem candidate other than Sanders? I remember this place was split pretty strongly down the middle in 2016, but all the Hillary fans seem to have either gotten behind Sanders or at least just failed to back anyone else this time around. I find that kind of curious since he's not ideologically in sync with the standard vibe of this group. Can’t speak for others, obviously. I don’t think I was posting here yet during the 2016 DNC primary, and didn’t vote in it, but I was probably in the “I like Bernie better on policy, but Trump looks REALLY bad and Hillary seems stronger in the general” camp. There were/are theories that any Republican could just air the clip of Sanders saying “I’m a Democratic Socialist” on repeat in swing states and be virtually assured of victory, and I thought that could be a big issue. I still don’t know that that’s wrong. I’ve personally seen more than once the sequence of someone saying “I kinda like Sanders...” and someone else saying “Are you kidding? You can’t vote for a socialist!” and the first person kinda nodding like “yeah, maybe you’re right...” Anecdotal, obviously, and who knows if the nodding was just polite, but I do think the decades of mudslinging and caricaturization attached to the word “socialist” is a potential problem. But this time around I’m not putting so much stock in that, partly because I feel like everybody understands that’s not really where the battle lines are any more. Republicans’ stock in concepts like limited government or fiscal responsibility seems to be at an all-time low, and the major area where Sanders is pushing socialist policy is healthcare, which is quite obviously not anything like a well-functioning free market right now anyway. After four years of Trump, I’m not sure criticisms like “he’ll bankrupt us!” or “he’s too extreme!” or “destroying the status quo like that is dangerous!” will hold much water. The other part, though, is that I have less patience for bowing to arguments I know are bullshit just because I think other people might not recognize that they’re bullshit. We’re already in a mixed economy, and most of the areas Sanders is talking about “socializing” are already extremely regulated anyway, and nobody is seriously talking about changing that. It’s mostly just branding making Sanders “socialist” and his opponents “not socialist;” I tend to think capitalism (if that’s what we’re calling our current system) will survive a Sanders administration just fine. So you can still make tactical arguments like “maybe the socialism criticism is bullshit, but swing voters don’t know that so we should go with someone else.” But I think that sucks. Taken to its natural conclusion, you wind up saying things like “we better nominate a white male, because racists and sexists in Florida and Ohio could decide the outcome!” At some point you’re inventing shitty people in your head and doing whatever you think the shitty people would want because you can’t imagine trying to convince them not to be shitty. TL;DR: I’m still probably not very aligned with GH-type revolutionaries (I still haven’t seen anything to make me think the primary results are being intentionally manipulated, for instance), but I like Sanders a lot and even if he is weaker in the general (and I’m not sure he is), I’m willing to give it a shot. | ||
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pmh
1414 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
Bernie is great at getting his message out into communities and really energizing the populace to get out and vote, and while he has his image pitfalls a la the unfortunate stigma socialism has in the US, dont the Republicans paint basically every Democrat as some sort of socialist? In the end, I just dont think thats going to matter so much if lots and lots of people are mobilized to vote, ESPECIALLY for a shitbag like Trump, who has the detriment of hindsight. People cant say, "well maybe he'll be great!" we all know hes not, and anyone who thinks he is was never a vote to be swayed towards a Democrat candidate anyways. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12402 Posts
Is that enough to win against the machine? I don't know. It's going to be close. But the data I've seen makes me think he is the most likely to win out of the candidates, biased as that conclusion may be. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26304 Posts
On February 24 2020 05:39 Nebuchad wrote: The strengths of Sanders are the possibility to raise turnout, as Zambrah said, the capacity to have a meaningful and honest answer to economic arguments like "The economy is doing so well under Trump" that a liberal would have more trouble with, the capacity to address the concerns of swing states like Michigan and Wisconsin, and the fact that after four years of votebluenomatterwho, it's likely that you'll get a lot of liberals ready to vote for him even if they don't like him ideologically, something that is not true in the reverse for leftists and someone like Bloomberg. Is that enough to win against the machine? I don't know. It's going to be close. But the data I've seen makes me think he is the most likely to win out of the candidates, biased as that conclusion may be. Well fingers crossed anyway. Trump does have ‘the economy’ on his side, whatever that means. | ||
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On February 24 2020 05:39 Nebuchad wrote: The strengths of Sanders are the possibility to raise turnout, as Zambrah said, the capacity to have a meaningful and honest answer to economic arguments like "The economy is doing so well under Trump" that a liberal would have more trouble with, the capacity to address the concerns of swing states like Michigan and Wisconsin, and the fact that after four years of votebluenomatterwho, it's likely that you'll get a lot of liberals ready to vote for him even if they don't like him ideologically, something that is not true in the reverse for leftists and someone like Bloomberg. Is that enough to win against the machine? I don't know. It's going to be close. But the data I've seen makes me think he is the most likely to win out of the candidates, biased as that conclusion may be. If Sanders has the best shot then the Democrats have no shot to beat Trump. The wealth of idiotic views and statements from Bernie is so long that Trump will have a field day with the ads and debates. Plus, I suspect there are more people like me out there that don't like Trump, but will absolutely run to the polls to vote against someone like Bernie. To me, Bernie looks like a repeat of '72 with McGovern. Bernie praising Daniel Ortega and the USSR just writes itself, and if he is going to push the Green New Deal, boy, that's going to go down like a lead balloon. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11758 Posts
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