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On January 06 2020 05:53 ShoCkeyy wrote:
There's reports that US Customs are detaining any person they deem "suspicious" of Iranian descent despite if they're a US citizen. So far 60+ Iranians were held for 11+ hours at the Canadian border.
Damn. I have a co-worker who was a nervous mess from the last Iran tension. She happens to be visiting Iran right now as all this happened. She's always said if things get too weird, she's going back to Iran. She might just not even come back. And might not be allowed to come back...crazy.
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On January 06 2020 05:33 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2020 02:53 Erasme wrote:On January 05 2020 11:08 Sermokala wrote:On January 05 2020 10:55 Erasme wrote:On January 05 2020 09:17 GreenHorizons wrote:Pompeo says that Europeans aren't being as helpful as he'd like relating to the assassination of Soleimani On January 05 2020 03:53 Nouar wrote:On January 05 2020 00:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
Top UN reporter on torture says Chelsea Manning's imprisonment and the US's treatment of her violate international human rights obligations.
A shame the US doesn't recognize any international institution that could hold them to account for anything. Think he's talking about stuff like that Nouar, not very helpful at all. He says you guys just don't understand. "The Brits, the French, the Germans all need to understand that what we did, what the Americans did, saved lives in Europe as well,"
"This was a good thing for the entire world, and we're urging everyone in the world to get behind what the United States is trying to do, to get the Islamic Republic of Iran to simply behave like a normal nation" A little appreciation Europeans would be nice is all I'm saying. I'm being facetious but it's pretty much on you guys to check the US by way of siding against the US in more than symbolic UN votes. Just hand-wringing and berating the buffoons in charge won't be enough. i dont think europeans wanted to be a part of it, just like some countries didn't want to be part of an intervention in iraq If we hold our hands over our eyes that means we can tell people we didn't know it happened and couldn't have done anything about what happened. More like the war in Iraq was illegal so we told the US to fuckoff, and that assassination was a dumb move that noone with a brain would've ordered. This "illegal war" shtick is really dumb and you should feel bad about using it. Secondly, do you really think your country told the US to fuck off after 9/11? France declined to be involved in iraq but has been involved in the war on terror just like any other major country. what? 9/11 was Afghanistan were the world followed readily enough. Iraq is a different war.
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On January 06 2020 06:58 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2020 05:53 ShoCkeyy wrote:
There's reports that US Customs are detaining any person they deem "suspicious" of Iranian descent despite if they're a US citizen. So far 60+ Iranians were held for 11+ hours at the Canadian border. Damn. I have a co-worker who was a nervous mess from the last Iran tension. She happens to be visiting Iran right now as all this happened. She's always said if things get too weird, she's going back to Iran. She might just not even come back. And might not be allowed to come back...crazy.
Considering Trumps multiple references to the legality of Japanese Internment camps I wouldn't want to be here if I was from a nation the US may go to (or is already at) war with either.
Would people accept Iranian (let's be real, it'd more than just Iranians) internment camps like we have the concentration camps for immigrants?
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On January 06 2020 05:53 ShoCkeyy wrote:
There's reports that US Customs are detaining any person they deem "suspicious" of Iranian descent despite if they're a US citizen. So far 60+ Iranians were held for 11+ hours at the Canadian border.
Looks like we'll have to build another wall bordering Canada too now!
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On January 06 2020 05:33 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2020 02:53 Erasme wrote:On January 05 2020 11:08 Sermokala wrote:On January 05 2020 10:55 Erasme wrote:On January 05 2020 09:17 GreenHorizons wrote:Pompeo says that Europeans aren't being as helpful as he'd like relating to the assassination of Soleimani https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1213500591646945286On January 05 2020 03:53 Nouar wrote:A shame the US doesn't recognize any international institution that could hold them to account for anything. Think he's talking about stuff like that Nouar, not very helpful at all. He says you guys just don't understand. "The Brits, the French, the Germans all need to understand that what we did, what the Americans did, saved lives in Europe as well,"
"This was a good thing for the entire world, and we're urging everyone in the world to get behind what the United States is trying to do, to get the Islamic Republic of Iran to simply behave like a normal nation" A little appreciation Europeans would be nice is all I'm saying. I'm being facetious but it's pretty much on you guys to check the US by way of siding against the US in more than symbolic UN votes. Just hand-wringing and berating the buffoons in charge won't be enough. i dont think europeans wanted to be a part of it, just like some countries didn't want to be part of an intervention in iraq If we hold our hands over our eyes that means we can tell people we didn't know it happened and couldn't have done anything about what happened. More like the war in Iraq was illegal so we told the US to fuckoff, and that assassination was a dumb move that noone with a brain would've ordered. This "illegal war" shtick is really dumb and you should feel bad about using it. Secondly, do you really think your country told the US to fuck off after 9/11? France declined to be involved in iraq but has been involved in the war on terror just like any other major country.
And you should feel bad about invading another country for fake reasons in order to take control of the oil. I'd argue that the war in afghanistan isn't going well considering how much money the us spent. So feel free to be proud for those two wars man
Also obviously please don't go from "illegal war" to "9/11" ty to try to make me look bad.
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On January 06 2020 07:18 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2020 06:58 Mohdoo wrote:On January 06 2020 05:53 ShoCkeyy wrote:
There's reports that US Customs are detaining any person they deem "suspicious" of Iranian descent despite if they're a US citizen. So far 60+ Iranians were held for 11+ hours at the Canadian border. Damn. I have a co-worker who was a nervous mess from the last Iran tension. She happens to be visiting Iran right now as all this happened. She's always said if things get too weird, she's going back to Iran. She might just not even come back. And might not be allowed to come back...crazy. Considering Trumps multiple references to the legality of Japanese Internment camps I wouldn't want to be here if I was from a nation the US may go to (or is already at) war with either. Would people accept Iranian (let's be real, it'd more than just Iranians) internment camps like we have the concentration camps for immigrants?
The public accepts pretty much everything because the people who care have no idea how to stop these things.
I use "accept" loosely, of course. We might scream and squirm around for a while, but eventually we'll slump back down in our chairs with an upset look on our faces.
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Hahaha Trump threatens to impose sanctions on Iraq in response to Iraqi call to withdraw American troops from the country. Looks like someone didn't think that operation through.
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On January 06 2020 09:01 Erasme wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2020 05:33 Sermokala wrote:On January 06 2020 02:53 Erasme wrote:On January 05 2020 11:08 Sermokala wrote:On January 05 2020 10:55 Erasme wrote:On January 05 2020 09:17 GreenHorizons wrote:Pompeo says that Europeans aren't being as helpful as he'd like relating to the assassination of Soleimani https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1213500591646945286On January 05 2020 03:53 Nouar wrote:A shame the US doesn't recognize any international institution that could hold them to account for anything. Think he's talking about stuff like that Nouar, not very helpful at all. He says you guys just don't understand. "The Brits, the French, the Germans all need to understand that what we did, what the Americans did, saved lives in Europe as well,"
"This was a good thing for the entire world, and we're urging everyone in the world to get behind what the United States is trying to do, to get the Islamic Republic of Iran to simply behave like a normal nation" A little appreciation Europeans would be nice is all I'm saying. I'm being facetious but it's pretty much on you guys to check the US by way of siding against the US in more than symbolic UN votes. Just hand-wringing and berating the buffoons in charge won't be enough. i dont think europeans wanted to be a part of it, just like some countries didn't want to be part of an intervention in iraq If we hold our hands over our eyes that means we can tell people we didn't know it happened and couldn't have done anything about what happened. More like the war in Iraq was illegal so we told the US to fuckoff, and that assassination was a dumb move that noone with a brain would've ordered. This "illegal war" shtick is really dumb and you should feel bad about using it. Secondly, do you really think your country told the US to fuck off after 9/11? France declined to be involved in iraq but has been involved in the war on terror just like any other major country. And you should feel bad about invading another country for fake reasons in order to take control of the oil. I'd argue that the war in afghanistan isn't going well considering how much money the us spent. So feel free to be proud for those two wars man Also obviously please don't go from "illegal war" to "9/11" ty to try to make me look bad.
Considering we never took control over the oil and non American companies got the contracts I guess that was another fake reason to go to war.
I'm not proud of the wars I'm pointing out that you should feel bad for your country doing nothing to oppose the war.
You either have to accept that your country is irrelevant or that it supported the Iraq invasion.
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On January 06 2020 09:30 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2020 07:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 06 2020 06:58 Mohdoo wrote:On January 06 2020 05:53 ShoCkeyy wrote:
There's reports that US Customs are detaining any person they deem "suspicious" of Iranian descent despite if they're a US citizen. So far 60+ Iranians were held for 11+ hours at the Canadian border. Damn. I have a co-worker who was a nervous mess from the last Iran tension. She happens to be visiting Iran right now as all this happened. She's always said if things get too weird, she's going back to Iran. She might just not even come back. And might not be allowed to come back...crazy. Considering Trumps multiple references to the legality of Japanese Internment camps I wouldn't want to be here if I was from a nation the US may go to (or is already at) war with either. Would people accept Iranian (let's be real, it'd more than just Iranians) internment camps like we have the concentration camps for immigrants? The public accepts pretty much everything because the people who care have no idea how to stop these things. I use "accept" loosely, of course. We might scream and squirm around for a while, but eventually we'll slump back down in our chairs with an upset look on our faces.
Mass action guided by revolutionary socialist thought is the answer for people who care but don't know what to do. The rest are people who don't care to know and prefer hand wringing over ineffectual systems and processes and/or inhibited by their positions under the status quo imo.
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Norway28683 Posts
On January 06 2020 11:01 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2020 09:01 Erasme wrote:On January 06 2020 05:33 Sermokala wrote:On January 06 2020 02:53 Erasme wrote:On January 05 2020 11:08 Sermokala wrote:On January 05 2020 10:55 Erasme wrote:On January 05 2020 09:17 GreenHorizons wrote:Pompeo says that Europeans aren't being as helpful as he'd like relating to the assassination of Soleimani https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1213500591646945286On January 05 2020 03:53 Nouar wrote:A shame the US doesn't recognize any international institution that could hold them to account for anything. Think he's talking about stuff like that Nouar, not very helpful at all. He says you guys just don't understand. "The Brits, the French, the Germans all need to understand that what we did, what the Americans did, saved lives in Europe as well,"
"This was a good thing for the entire world, and we're urging everyone in the world to get behind what the United States is trying to do, to get the Islamic Republic of Iran to simply behave like a normal nation" A little appreciation Europeans would be nice is all I'm saying. I'm being facetious but it's pretty much on you guys to check the US by way of siding against the US in more than symbolic UN votes. Just hand-wringing and berating the buffoons in charge won't be enough. i dont think europeans wanted to be a part of it, just like some countries didn't want to be part of an intervention in iraq If we hold our hands over our eyes that means we can tell people we didn't know it happened and couldn't have done anything about what happened. More like the war in Iraq was illegal so we told the US to fuckoff, and that assassination was a dumb move that noone with a brain would've ordered. This "illegal war" shtick is really dumb and you should feel bad about using it. Secondly, do you really think your country told the US to fuck off after 9/11? France declined to be involved in iraq but has been involved in the war on terror just like any other major country. And you should feel bad about invading another country for fake reasons in order to take control of the oil. I'd argue that the war in afghanistan isn't going well considering how much money the us spent. So feel free to be proud for those two wars man Also obviously please don't go from "illegal war" to "9/11" ty to try to make me look bad. Considering we never took control over the oil and non American companies got the contracts I guess that was another fake reason to go to war. I'm not proud of the wars I'm pointing out that you should feel bad for your country doing nothing to oppose the war. You either have to accept that your country is irrelevant or that it supported the Iraq invasion.
The right read for most european countries is that because of 'irrelevancy' and dependency upon the US their governments ended up supporting the war even though their populations were opposed.
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On January 06 2020 10:36 Sent. wrote:
Hahaha Trump threatens to impose sanctions on Iraq in response to Iraqi call to withdraw American troops from the country. Looks like someone didn't think that operation through.
He wants to get paid for the expensive bases they built in Iraq, or he will sanction Iraq harder than Iran...
He also reconfirms his intent on destroying Iran's cultural sites. Like we might have F22s blowing up ancient Persian heritage as a fuck you message. What is this timeline...
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Stay what you will about Obama's war mongering but at least he could build a coalition making a threat of sanction or what have you actually feasible. This is a pretty empty threat which only encourages iran's influence in iraq, let alone the actions leading up to it.
All this do would raise mildly oil prices to the US, the US isn't one of their main import partners but one of their main export partners, most of what iraq exports is oil. The crude oil market isn't historically high or low, iraq will just sell more to say china or someone else in the region.
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On January 06 2020 07:52 Starlightsun wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2020 05:53 ShoCkeyy wrote:
There's reports that US Customs are detaining any person they deem "suspicious" of Iranian descent despite if they're a US citizen. So far 60+ Iranians were held for 11+ hours at the Canadian border. Looks like we'll have to build another wall bordering Canada too now!
Canada does actually have quite a few Iranians as they often qualify for their skills and means test for immigration you know the thing Trump "wanted" immigration based off of, meaning they're often freshly immigrated. Canada unlike Mexico actually has produced "islamic" terrorists who have targeted the US.
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On January 06 2020 12:16 semantics wrote:
Stay what you will about Obama's war mongering but at least he could build a coalition making a threat of sanction or what have you actually feasible. This is a pretty empty threat which only encourages iran's influence in iraq, let alone the actions leading up to it.
All this do would raise mildly oil prices to the US, the US isn't one of their main import partners but one of their main export partners, most of what iraq exports is oil. The crude oil market isn't historically high or low, iraq will just sell more to say china or someone else in the region.
Based on his previous rhetoric I think it's unlikely he imagines the US would be "buying" the oil. The strategy he's bluffing is seizing Iraq's oil and using debt as the justification.
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On January 06 2020 11:01 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2020 09:01 Erasme wrote:On January 06 2020 05:33 Sermokala wrote:On January 06 2020 02:53 Erasme wrote:On January 05 2020 11:08 Sermokala wrote:On January 05 2020 10:55 Erasme wrote:On January 05 2020 09:17 GreenHorizons wrote:Pompeo says that Europeans aren't being as helpful as he'd like relating to the assassination of Soleimani https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1213500591646945286On January 05 2020 03:53 Nouar wrote:A shame the US doesn't recognize any international institution that could hold them to account for anything. Think he's talking about stuff like that Nouar, not very helpful at all. He says you guys just don't understand. "The Brits, the French, the Germans all need to understand that what we did, what the Americans did, saved lives in Europe as well,"
"This was a good thing for the entire world, and we're urging everyone in the world to get behind what the United States is trying to do, to get the Islamic Republic of Iran to simply behave like a normal nation" A little appreciation Europeans would be nice is all I'm saying. I'm being facetious but it's pretty much on you guys to check the US by way of siding against the US in more than symbolic UN votes. Just hand-wringing and berating the buffoons in charge won't be enough. i dont think europeans wanted to be a part of it, just like some countries didn't want to be part of an intervention in iraq If we hold our hands over our eyes that means we can tell people we didn't know it happened and couldn't have done anything about what happened. More like the war in Iraq was illegal so we told the US to fuckoff, and that assassination was a dumb move that noone with a brain would've ordered. This "illegal war" shtick is really dumb and you should feel bad about using it. Secondly, do you really think your country told the US to fuck off after 9/11? France declined to be involved in iraq but has been involved in the war on terror just like any other major country. And you should feel bad about invading another country for fake reasons in order to take control of the oil. I'd argue that the war in afghanistan isn't going well considering how much money the us spent. So feel free to be proud for those two wars man Also obviously please don't go from "illegal war" to "9/11" ty to try to make me look bad. Considering we never took control over the oil and non American companies got the contracts I guess that was another fake reason to go to war. I'm not proud of the wars I'm pointing out that you should feel bad for your country doing nothing to oppose the war. You either have to accept that your country is irrelevant or that it supported the Iraq invasion.
Of course France is irrelevant. Who the f thinks otherwise?
Thing is irrelevant is a whole lot better than spending 5(?) trillion dollars invading another country, murdering their children for no particular reason while your own people are dying of poverty and drug overdoses by the 10s of thousands back home.
But sure, the people the people too weak to stop the maniacs are the ones who should feel bad, not the maniacs themselves. That makes sense.
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On January 06 2020 12:06 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2020 10:36 Sent. wrote:
Hahaha Trump threatens to impose sanctions on Iraq in response to Iraqi call to withdraw American troops from the country. Looks like someone didn't think that operation through. He wants to get paid for the expensive bases they built in Iraq, or he will sanction Iraq harder than Iran... He also reconfirms his intent on destroying Iran's cultural sites. Like we might have F22s blowing up ancient Persian heritage as a fuck you message. What is this timeline... https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1213980832790196225
Aw that's too bad the 4d chess Trumpers had already started to craft a narrative that this was his plan to get the troops out of Iraq faster (faster than, I suppose, just telling them to get out).
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United States42957 Posts
The argument over whether Iraq will pay for bases it kicks the US out of or whether they’ll be sanctioned is entirely manufactured. A week ago this wasn’t an issue and wasn’t going to be one but Trump did some impetuous and inadvisable shit that everyone else knew better than to do and now he’s threatening people in the hope that they’ll make the consequences of his stupidity disappear. There’s a reason we didn’t have this kind of nonsense going on under any of the last 10 Presidents.
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On January 06 2020 11:11 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2020 09:30 travis wrote:On January 06 2020 07:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 06 2020 06:58 Mohdoo wrote:On January 06 2020 05:53 ShoCkeyy wrote:
There's reports that US Customs are detaining any person they deem "suspicious" of Iranian descent despite if they're a US citizen. So far 60+ Iranians were held for 11+ hours at the Canadian border. Damn. I have a co-worker who was a nervous mess from the last Iran tension. She happens to be visiting Iran right now as all this happened. She's always said if things get too weird, she's going back to Iran. She might just not even come back. And might not be allowed to come back...crazy. Considering Trumps multiple references to the legality of Japanese Internment camps I wouldn't want to be here if I was from a nation the US may go to (or is already at) war with either. Would people accept Iranian (let's be real, it'd more than just Iranians) internment camps like we have the concentration camps for immigrants? The public accepts pretty much everything because the people who care have no idea how to stop these things. I use "accept" loosely, of course. We might scream and squirm around for a while, but eventually we'll slump back down in our chairs with an upset look on our faces. Mass action guided by revolutionary socialist thought is the answer for people who care but don't know what to do. The rest are people who don't care to know and prefer hand wringing over ineffectual systems and processes and/or inhibited by their positions under the status quo imo.
You say that like it hasn't failed in the past constantly or any way that it won't fail like people tell you how it fails. People don't want to murder innocent people and then march off to war to die themselves.
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On January 06 2020 14:13 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2020 11:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 06 2020 09:30 travis wrote:On January 06 2020 07:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 06 2020 06:58 Mohdoo wrote:On January 06 2020 05:53 ShoCkeyy wrote:
There's reports that US Customs are detaining any person they deem "suspicious" of Iranian descent despite if they're a US citizen. So far 60+ Iranians were held for 11+ hours at the Canadian border. Damn. I have a co-worker who was a nervous mess from the last Iran tension. She happens to be visiting Iran right now as all this happened. She's always said if things get too weird, she's going back to Iran. She might just not even come back. And might not be allowed to come back...crazy. Considering Trumps multiple references to the legality of Japanese Internment camps I wouldn't want to be here if I was from a nation the US may go to (or is already at) war with either. Would people accept Iranian (let's be real, it'd more than just Iranians) internment camps like we have the concentration camps for immigrants? The public accepts pretty much everything because the people who care have no idea how to stop these things. I use "accept" loosely, of course. We might scream and squirm around for a while, but eventually we'll slump back down in our chairs with an upset look on our faces. Mass action guided by revolutionary socialist thought is the answer for people who care but don't know what to do. The rest are people who don't care to know and prefer hand wringing over ineffectual systems and processes and/or inhibited by their positions under the status quo imo. You say that like it hasn't failed in the past constantly or any way that it won't fail like people tell you how it fails. People don't want to murder innocent people and then march off to war to die themselves.
I say it like it's what I believe, because it is after exploring political perspectives across the spectrum and historically relevant events.
I'm familiar with the "it's failed everywhere it's tried" argument, and it's by people who don't engage with the theory much, if at all. They typically rely on outdated notions of "human nature" and the immutability of greed.
If you've got something better than that typical line of argumentation I might be interested, otherwise, not so much.
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EPT
