EPTOn October 23 2019 05:52 Mohdoo wrote:
So you're saying Taylor's recollection is considered evidence?
So you're saying Taylor's recollection is considered evidence?
I think he is saying there are transcripts that back up Taylors testimony
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IyMoon
United States1249 Posts
I think he is saying there are transcripts that back up Taylors testimony | ||
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farvacola
United States18866 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22523 Posts
On October 23 2019 05:52 Mohdoo wrote: There are rarely (practically never) records of private conversations with the President. So you're saying Taylor's recollection is considered evidence? The WH kinda soured on those after the whole Nixon thing. But why are you seemingly hung up on 'evidence'? Impeachment hearings are no courtroom, there is no format for evidence. Or even a need for evidence at all really. | ||
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farvacola
United States18866 Posts
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
Taylor's story fills in more blanks with another testimony, and he also obviously has texts/emails of the conversations he quotes, but all these people combined with the actual call Trump released should be more than enough to convince any honest senator that shit stinks. The question is how many Lindsey Grahams there are among republicans. If they can all sell their soul like he did then nothing will happen, but there are also reports that like half of them would vote for impeach in a secret vote so they might do the right thing in the actual senate trial too. Taylors long written opening statement is made available and it's quite detailed: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/22/politics/bill-taylor-opening-statement-congress/index.html | ||
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Simberto
Germany11952 Posts
On October 23 2019 05:59 farvacola wrote: At a Senate impeachment trial, the defense can make its case on evidentiary grounds, but they won’t get stuff excluded as inadmissible in the same way that litigants in court can. But all of that is utterly irrelevant. Because the senate decides based on politics, not evidence. The question is not whether something is admissable as evidence, but if something convinces the public to start such a shitstorm that republican senators will vote against Trump. Which means that what you need is something that convinces large parts of the republican voter base that Trump is bad. I honestly can't imagine what such a thing would look like, if all the stuff we know already doesn't convince them. | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
The amount of corruption and incompetence is amazing. The fact that these people are representing the United States at home and abroad is an embarrassment that will take a generation to fix. The only positive that could come out of this would be a skepticism of morons and blowhards but I have a hard time believing much will change. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27271 Posts
On October 23 2019 07:12 Sadist wrote: I know that politics is prone to being filled with sociopaths but its absolutely amazing to me that these people would agree to work for Trump throughout all of this bullshit. You would think self preservation would take over at some point even if morals and ethics didn't. The amount of corruption and incompetence is amazing. The fact that these people are representing the United States at home and abroad is an embarrassment that will take a generation to fix. The only positive that could come out of this would be a skepticism of morons and blowhards but I have a hard time believing much will change. It’s not fixable until the wider populace takes a bit of a look at their own flaws and foibles as regards the process they participate in. | ||
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Nouar
France3270 Posts
On October 23 2019 07:12 Sadist wrote: I know that politics is prone to being filled with sociopaths but its absolutely amazing to me that these people would agree to work for Trump throughout all of this bullshit. You would think self preservation would take over at some point even if morals and ethics didn't. The amount of corruption and incompetence is amazing. The fact that these people are representing the United States at home and abroad is an embarrassment that will take a generation to fix. The only positive that could come out of this would be a skepticism of morons and blowhards but I have a hard time believing much will change. Not fixable as long as ~50% of the voting population votes for these guys. And the trend is getting worse every generation passing. I mean, decades were spent to turn consumers into gullible people willing to swallow everything. It doesn't only work for products. Also for voting. It's a trend worldwide as people forget why we do the things that were done, to avoid war. As remembrance fades, idiocy rises, and countries slide back into egoism and fear-mongering little by little, after dumbing down their population for the sake of growth. | ||
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farvacola
United States18866 Posts
On October 23 2019 06:16 Simberto wrote: But all of that is utterly irrelevant. Because the senate decides based on politics, not evidence. The question is not whether something is admissable as evidence, but if something convinces the public to start such a shitstorm that republican senators will vote against Trump. Which means that what you need is something that convinces large parts of the republican voter base that Trump is bad. I honestly can't imagine what such a thing would look like, if all the stuff we know already doesn't convince them. The scope of what can and cannot be presented at a Senate impeachment trial is not utterly irrelevant, and the fact that there is a fair bit more leeway in that venue than in federal court will be important should an impeachment trial be held. | ||
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redlightdistrict
382 Posts
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Gorgonoth
United States468 Posts
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/10/23/politics/cnn-poll-biden-lead-increases/index.html］www.google.com | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On October 24 2019 08:49 Gorgonoth wrote: Yet another very strong post debate poll for Biden. I’ve still got my chips on him at this point guys. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/10/23/politics/cnn-poll-biden-lead-increases/index.html］www.google.com Part of this is the fact that Biden has great support among the 8 or 9 democrats in states no democrat is going to win in a general election. It's not necessarily an indication who will win a primary. Especially since mindless idiots tend to gather around whoever wins the first few states. | ||
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Gorgonoth
United States468 Posts
On October 24 2019 09:41 Mohdoo wrote: Part of this is the fact that Biden has great support among the 8 or 9 democrats in states no democrat is going to win in a general election. It's not necessarily an indication who will win a primary. Especially since mindless idiots tend to gather around whoever wins the first few states. Not sure I follow this, his great support in those 8 or 9 states could very well win him a primary, regardless of the fact that a dem won’t win them in the general election. As far as people flocking around a tier 1.5 candidate like warren or sanders if they win those states, I think it’s possible, but remember Biden’s polling in Iowa and NH haven’t been anything to sneeze at either. I think even if he loses those, he’s got such a substantial lead in states like South Carolina, Virginia etc I’m not sure others will keep up with him in the long term delegate haul. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
Giving them a chunk of Kurdish Syria wasn't enough, he's gonna lift all sanctions and improve their economy too. What a helluva nice for someone who is killing Kurds who, up until a few weeks ago were close allies. Definitely living up to his words about crushing their economy. https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/syria-turkey-russia-10-23-2019/index.html Edit: this is just a few hours after announcing that there is evidence of war crimes committed by Turkey in Syria. All that to keep a hotel going in turkey. | ||
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
Seems like they are getting more and more desperate. They have no argument for defending the administration so they blow up the process? You have former AG Whittaker saying 'Abuse of power is not a crime' as defense now. I really wonder about the motivations of these people, and if there even is a limit for them how far they will go for Trump. | ||
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liamalger
1 Post
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27271 Posts
On October 24 2019 10:46 Gorgonoth wrote: Not sure I follow this, his great support in those 8 or 9 states could very well win him a primary, regardless of the fact that a dem won’t win them in the general election. As far as people flocking around a tier 1.5 candidate like warren or sanders if they win those states, I think it’s possible, but remember Biden’s polling in Iowa and NH haven’t been anything to sneeze at either. I think even if he loses those, he’s got such a substantial lead in states like South Carolina, Virginia etc I’m not sure others will keep up with him in the long term delegate haul. It’s certainly possible there being so many permutations to the process. There is certainly a bit of a bandwagon effect depending who strikes the first victory, I could see him ride one to victory if he does get those strikes. That said his fundraising isn’t great so far so those with the cash don’t as yet have the confidence that he’ll manage to pull that off, although many donors are probably waiting to see how the tide moves. My impression of Biden is he does have a degree of residual goodwill from having that name recognition behind him, but the more exposure he gets the less impressive he looks, as well as other candidates who look stronger getting the exposure that they relatively lack. Plus we have the factor of who drops out and when and where their support potentially goes to as well. Compared to the shenanigans of the Commander in Chief and the shambles that is Brexit over here, the primary race is a hell of a lot more interesting and less depressing at the time being to observe, at least for my tastes! | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On October 24 2019 13:48 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: What do you guys think of Matt Gaetz and bunch of other GOPs stunt today 'storming' a secured room where the impeachment hearings were held. They broke all security protocol by bringing in their electronics with them. But they had to expose 'Schiffs secret hearings'...that republicans on committees already have access to. Seems like they are getting more and more desperate. They have no argument for defending the administration so they blow up the process? You have former AG Whittaker saying 'Abuse of power is not a crime' as defense now. I really wonder about the motivations of these people, and if there even is a limit for them how far they will go for Trump. I've also read that a quarter of the doorcrashers could have attended the hearing officially anyway. | ||
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nojok
France15846 Posts
On October 23 2019 18:41 Nouar wrote: Not fixable as long as ~50% of the voting population votes for these guys. And the trend is getting worse every generation passing. I mean, decades were spent to turn consumers into gullible people willing to swallow everything. It doesn't only work for products. Also for voting. It's a trend worldwide as people forget why we do the things that were done, to avoid war. As remembrance fades, idiocy rises, and countries slide back into egoism and fear-mongering little by little, after dumbing down their population for the sake of growth. No, it should fix itself, they don't provide any improvement, enough people will eventually notice. | ||
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