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On August 05 2019 23:28 Pangpootata wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2019 23:26 KwarK wrote:On August 05 2019 23:23 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
I guess I'm confused because, if you take what he says, then it all boils down to white people are to blame for violence in America. Skin color notwithstanding. Hot take. Black slaves were raped by white slaveowners and therefore their black descendants are responsible for slavery, but are also white. Therefore (partially) white African Americans people are responsible for slavery. Black is white. Nope. Nobody in modern times is responsible for slavery. You don't have to be responsible for your ancestors' crimes.
No, but you should be responsible for the same crimes as your ancestors if you're also committing them yourself.
Overall, I found this take to be curiously dressed, but still the same "the real racists are on the left" garbage take I've seen a million times. 2/10.
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I'm looking so forward to boomers being completely out of government. Blaming video games in 2019 shows such an insane disconnect from reality after the swath of studies that have been done. Just sad to see how incompetent this admin is.
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On August 06 2019 00:47 Mohdoo wrote:
I'm looking so forward to boomers being completely out of government. Blaming video games in 2019 shows such an insane disconnect from reality after the swath of studies that have been done. Just sad to see how incompetent this admin is.
It's the new version of blaming punk music for the downfall of society. But I guarantee every single one of those fuckers that says that knows it's a load of bunk. They take loads of money from special interests like the NRA, do a song and dance where they blame video games and mental health, offer thoughts and prayers, and wash their hands of it before the next shooting happens. Apparently it does a good enough job of distracting folks, because it's happened how many times now? And nothing changes.
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Canada11350 Posts
If 1% of Americans were slaveowners 15 generations ago then most Americans today descended from slaveowners, assuming no caste marriage restrictions. It’s also wrong to assume the only beneficiaries of slavery were the owners.
Maybe most Americans who were Americans at the time of the slave trade- depending on how mobile American families are moving north to south. On the other hand, if you count households rather than percentage of the population as individuals, the percentage was very, very high in the south.
However, I think it's very, very possible for immigrants from the 20th Century to have zero ancestry connected to slave owners, just because it takes awhile to assimilate into the wider culture, even if European. As an example, my family immigrated to Canada in the 1920's, half lost their language in the second generation born in Canada and completely lost their language in the third (mine), and it's only in the third- (my) generation that has married outside our ethnicity- and I think exclusively outside at that. So if we were in the US, it would only be the fourth generation that had any possibility of being descended from slave owners (or slaves for that matter).
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Pangpootata 's interesting theory that all black people in USA are in fact white (is this the flipside of one-drop rule?) isn't nearly as interesting as his insistance that white supremacist terrorism is not a problem and distracts from it.
It doesn't matter what you classify the victims and perpetrators and those who spread the ideology of such terrorism around, the victims are just as dead, and the ideology continues to spread.
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It appears Beto O'Rourke just dropped the pretenses and said what everyone's thinking after having a particularly rough day:
He also went off on the press in a way that I strongly agree with. All of the hand-wringing "what can be done?" questions are such a waste of time at this point. "What can be done" has been discussed to death. And why even bother asking "What should Trump do?". Trump is not going to do anything about this. He never does. Just like every other time, he gives some insincere speech written by someone else then goes and plays more golf or goes and yells at the TV.
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On August 05 2019 23:21 brian wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2019 23:19 Pangpootata wrote:On August 05 2019 23:12 brian wrote:
ancestorship in relationship to current racism is entirely irrelevant. people aren’t treated differently because of who their long deceased ancestors are.
partially white genetically is definitely the stupidest thing i’ll read today. it couldn’t be clearer how off the point this is. well, to others.
how any of this even relates to your stated claim of intra racial violence being the problem is also nebulous? Ancestorship is relevant to the current political climate where some left wing people blame whites for the actions of their ancestors. All my points are sound and refute them if you can instead of name-calling. That was a side-track from the main point when Kwark blamed historical white subjugation for black intra racial violence. you misunderstand, to acknowledge whites are better off as a result of slavery is not laying blame. and it has little to do with ancestorship, and rather it’s as easy as the color of your skin. coincidentally this leads to why your statement was so stupid. to this end, i’d recommend you back track to what whiteness means and who decides who is white. I think it was Kwark and GH that did so with some dark humor, was a pretty easy read. what you won’t find there is a discussion on ancestorship. i will, soundness is dubious but we’ll get there, but it behooves us all to understand how stupid the idea is. how do you reconcile the claim that intraracial violence is the problem while similtaneously white washing blacks?
I saved a link to it
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+ Show Spoiler +On August 06 2019 06:27 Ben... wrote:It appears Beto O'Rourke just dropped the pretenses and said what everyone's thinking after having a particularly rough day: https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1158375056126480384He also went off on the press in a way that I strongly agree with. All of the hand-wringing "what can be done?" questions are such a waste of time at this point. "What can be done" has been discussed to death. And why even bother asking "What should Trump do?". Trump is not going to do anything about this. He never does. Just like every other time, he gives some insincere speech written by someone else then goes and plays more golf or goes and yells at the TV.
Heard some clips of him on the radio, I don't agree, Beto sounds like pandering infant. A last ditch effort to save his campaign.
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Big oof.
Trump prolly lost a lot of voters by blaming video games. I dont necessarily care for the guy, but he was the most likely I wouldve voted for come 2020.
Now Im back to just not caring to show up to a poll.. meh.
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On August 06 2019 12:04 Emnjay808 wrote:
I dont necessarily care for the guy, but he was the most likely I wouldve voted for come 2020.
Now Im back to just not caring to show up to a poll.. meh.
What reason would you show up to a poll to vote for him?
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If there is a dem candidate worst than him.
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What criteria are you basing whether a democratic candidate is worse than Trump? Which of the top 10 candidates do you see being worse than Trump?
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Come 2020 we'll find out who is worst than him. I dont align with Dem's agendas: open borders, gun control, raising minimum wage to an arbitrary number, etc.
I dont care to get into a debate, if thats what youre seeking. Just simply responding to be polite.
+ Show Spoiler +Again, unlikely Ill show up to polls anyways. My opinion or vote wont even matter. My state wont flip.
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Not looking for a debate thanks. Just interested into the logic that goes into considering voting for Trump.
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I find opposition to minimum wage increase to be interesting. It requires you to both 1) believe large corporations when they say they just can't pay people any more or they'll have to cut staff, and 2) forget what the minimum wage is supposed to achieve. Minimum wage is supposed to be set such that any job offers a livable wage, even if it's not glamorous. In that context, the number our minimum wage is at right now seems much more arbitrary, when someone working for minimum wage still requires government benefits to make ends meet. Big corporations are forcing you to subsidize these workers, by refusing to pay them properly while they post record profits quarter after quarter, and hand themselves enormous bonuses while they're at it. I should think we're all for raising the minimum wage, once the problem is framed properly.
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same with gun control being a deciding factor when 89% of republicans support it
but oh well
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On August 06 2019 13:02 Emnjay808 wrote:Come 2020 we'll find out who is worst than him. I dont align with Dem's agendas: open borders, gun control, raising minimum wage to an arbitrary number, etc. I dont care to get into a debate, if thats what youre seeking. Just simply responding to be polite. + Show Spoiler +Again, unlikely Ill show up to polls anyways. My opinion or vote wont even matter. My state wont flip.
Not one of them wants open borders. That’s a right wing strawman. No. One. Wants. That.
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On August 06 2019 15:45 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2019 13:02 Emnjay808 wrote:Come 2020 we'll find out who is worst than him. I dont align with Dem's agendas: open borders, gun control, raising minimum wage to an arbitrary number, etc. I dont care to get into a debate, if thats what youre seeking. Just simply responding to be polite. + Show Spoiler +Again, unlikely Ill show up to polls anyways. My opinion or vote wont even matter. My state wont flip. Not one of them wants open borders. That’s a right wing strawman. No. One. Wants. That.
Well, no politician running for president wants that, anyway.
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On August 06 2019 16:29 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2019 15:45 Biff The Understudy wrote:On August 06 2019 13:02 Emnjay808 wrote:Come 2020 we'll find out who is worst than him. I dont align with Dem's agendas: open borders, gun control, raising minimum wage to an arbitrary number, etc. I dont care to get into a debate, if thats what youre seeking. Just simply responding to be polite. + Show Spoiler +Again, unlikely Ill show up to polls anyways. My opinion or vote wont even matter. My state wont flip. Not one of them wants open borders. That’s a right wing strawman. No. One. Wants. That. Well, no politician running for president wants that, anyway.
My point. That’s such a dumb strawman made on democratic platforms and it comes back again and again. Obama has been extremely tough on immigration, way too much imo, and there is no sign that any democratic hopeful would be any different.
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5930 Posts
On August 06 2019 13:37 NewSunshine wrote:
I find opposition to minimum wage increase to be interesting. It requires you to both 1) believe large corporations when they say they just can't pay people any more or they'll have to cut staff, and 2) forget what the minimum wage is supposed to achieve. Minimum wage is supposed to be set such that any job offers a livable wage, even if it's not glamorous. In that context, the number our minimum wage is at right now seems much more arbitrary, when someone working for minimum wage still requires government benefits to make ends meet. Big corporations are forcing you to subsidize these workers, by refusing to pay them properly while they post record profits quarter after quarter, and hand themselves enormous bonuses while they're at it. I should think we're all for raising the minimum wage, once the problem is framed properly.
At the heart of it, it’s basically welfare for business owners. It’s like the argument against penalty rates in Australia from businesses claiming they cannot afford to pay their weekend staff extra pay.
Those who can’t earn enough during weekends to pay their staff extra - particularly in the service industry - are essentially running zombie businesses. Either the weekend increases business or you have no reason to open during the weekend.
My family used to run a take away store and I’ve seen the books. If you’re not seeing increased weekend traffic from people not working and that increased traffic isn’t offsetting whatever overhead you have, your business is either performing poorly or has no reason to even open on the weekend. People who argue against relatively low pay increases - pay increases that generally result in higher discretionary spending - are really no better than the welfare queens the same people often moan about.
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