EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 1672
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Womwomwom
5930 Posts
On July 17 2019 09:58 Jockmcplop wrote: There's a difference between supporting racist policy for non racist reasons and literally telling Americans with different racial backgrounds to go back to their countries. Do you really think Trump's tweets need artificially forcing into the prism of identity politics? But you see, when Trump is telling these women to go back to their own countries he’s not being “racist”. He’s only defending the jewel of Western Civilisation from turning into a shithole like the rest of the world, which these women are trying to do with their identity politics and European economic ideas. The United States has no place for foreign ideas because if foreign ideas were any good, they’d match the United States in economic and cultural power. But instead they’re all shitholes many times weaker than the United States. Sorry you liberals can’t see what Trump is actually saying in his tweets and only see racism. Do I need to remind you that all of these women are horribly racist towards Jews? How come you guys don’t call out those women for those comments hmmmmm? | ||
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KwarK
United States44353 Posts
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Womwomwom
5930 Posts
On July 17 2019 10:59 KwarK wrote: This used to be really simple. If they’re born here but you tell them to go back to their country because they’re brown then you’re saying that they’re excluded from the US because they’re brown. That’s as textbook racist as it gets. It still is that simple, but it used to be simple too. Well, it’s not so simple anymore because apparently everything Trump does has 20 layers of strategy and liberals are always getting caught in his masterful traps and everything he says doesn’t actually mean what he says so it doesn’t count and | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4456 Posts
Warren calling for slavery reparations and Biden claiming he’d cure cancer if he was elected, I’d say not so moderate. | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
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Womwomwom
5930 Posts
On July 17 2019 11:02 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Having a strong border and saying people should go home if they don’t love the country are pretty moderate i’d Say. Warren calling for slavery reparations and Biden claiming he’d cure cancer if he was elected, I’d say not so moderate. So you have to love everything about your country to stay in the country? Maybe you should get out of Australia considering how much you’ve moaned about it in the past. If you were born in Australia, I dunno go buy a kit from Ancestry and see where your ancestors came from and move there. | ||
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KwarK
United States44353 Posts
On July 17 2019 11:03 farvacola wrote: America is their home, which is why it’s blatant racism. Nice try though. As everyone except Nettles understands. The only thing foreign about AOC is her skin and her name, and that’s only if you believe that the US should be solely populated by Northern Europeans. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12559 Posts
In my view racism is morally wrong. But if I was a racist, I obviously would disagree that being racist is morally wrong. And then I wouldn't be able to say it because of political correctness, so my goal as a racist would be to make sure I am never called a racist (because that's perceived as morally wrong) while maintaining my views (because I disagree). I had this exchange with Danglars a while ago where I asked him what he didn't like about transphobia, and he kept talking to me about what he didn't like about being called a transphobe, over at least 10 posts and over my objections. I couldn't get him to admit to a difference between those two. Racism and those other views also don't make sense rationally though. I wonder if we would have gotten better results if, instead of talking about tolerance and morality, we talked about the stupidity of it all. Not saying we never do but, just, more often. | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
Which is "go back to africa" and the many variations though american racist history. + Show Spoiler [the tweet people seem to forget] + | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On July 17 2019 11:08 Nebuchad wrote: I had this exchange with Danglars a while ago where I asked him what he didn't like about transphobia, and he kept talking to me about what he didn't like about being called a transphobe, over at least 10 posts and over my objections. I couldn't get him to admit to a difference between those two. I assume you're referring to this, a discussion from an article whose quoted section was And so it is not transphobic for a gay man not to be attracted to a trans man. I spent quite a while puzzling over the apparently asinine conversation. Why would someone need a separate discussion on transphobia, as a thing unto itself, when it's obviously a pejorative term (or badly connoted term) applied towards people's attitudes? Why, in an article that talks about the harm in the overlabeling of transphobia and transphobes, is he hung up on transphobia vs transphobes? Some attitude or position is called transphobia/transphobic, and they are expounded on by humans, maybe called transphobes for their committment to such attitudes. But, to be more than usually generous, I'll link what should've resolved your difficulties. I have a problem with transphobia so far as it means ... and (IgnE beat me to it, and I explicitly credited him) is there a duty to be attracted to everyone?. Literally asked and answered, but that would apparently be too easy. Now, you went on to explicitly connect what I just described as elements deemed transphobia that I didn't like to trans activism. Obviously, it's your right to think my qualms about transphobia and how it's used is actually just some activists. Just don't act like a child afterwards and pretend your disagreements on what fairly fits under the banner represents a refusal to answer you plainly. I have started to step up my requirements on engaging with the article and the primary topic before launching into tangents, because of people like you playing games with "that wasn't real transphobia." I say this even if such games are evidently very amusing to those practicing them, and somewhat popular among denizens here. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12559 Posts
On July 17 2019 11:35 Danglars wrote: I spent quite a while puzzling over the apparently asinine conversation. Why would someone need a separate discussion on transphobia, as a thing unto itself, when it's obviously a pejorative term (or badly connoted term) applied towards people's attitudes? You need a separate discussion because a transphobe also would perceive transphobia to be a pejorative term, but they wouldn't perceive that it's a pejorative attitude. So there's a difference between having a problem with the attitude and having a problem with the word. It's not that subtle. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On July 17 2019 10:53 Womwomwom wrote: But you see, when Trump is telling these women to go back to their own countries he’s not being “racist”. He’s only defending the jewel of Western Civilisation from turning into a shithole like the rest of the world, which these women are trying to do with their identity politics and European economic ideas. The United States has no place for foreign ideas because if foreign ideas were any good, they’d match the United States in economic and cultural power. But instead they’re all shitholes many times weaker than the United States. Sorry you liberals can’t see what Trump is actually saying in his tweets and only see racism. Do I need to remind you that all of these women are horribly racist towards Jews? How come you guys don’t call out those women for those comments hmmmmm? I'm gonna need a Poe's Law check on this. On July 17 2019 11:08 KwarK wrote: As everyone except Nettles understands. The only thing foreign about AOC is her skin and her name, and that’s only if you believe that the US should be solely populated by Northern Europeans. Even then she's ethnically Puerto Rican(therefore, American) and Cortez is a Spanish name, therefore European. From there we have to go down unraveling the onion of "white"ness to see what level of purity is required which, as you said, limits to Northern Europeans. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On July 17 2019 11:54 Nebuchad wrote: You need a separate discussion because a transphobe also would perceive transphobia to be a pejorative term, but they wouldn't perceive that it's a pejorative attitude. So there's a difference between having a problem with the attitude and having a problem with the word. It's not that subtle. I really must ask that you offer a substantive disagreement with what I argued in this post, referring back to what you brought up from a post some months ago. You may also confirm that I answered your question, and you didn't like my answer, and previously confused that with not answering you. I said already I was done with "no true transphobia" games, and these tend to shit up the thread in general. The article is linked in my prior post, and I beg you to read and engage with it instead of silly semantical games. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24369 Posts
On July 17 2019 13:20 Danglars wrote: I really must ask that you offer a substantive disagreement with what I argued in this post, referring back to what you brought up from a post some months ago. You may also confirm that I answered your question, and you didn't like my answer, and previously confused that with not answering you. I said already I was done with "no true transphobia" games, and these tend to shit up the thread in general. The article is linked in my prior post, and I beg you to read and engage with it instead of silly semantical games. I understand your point but I'm confused as to whether you think transphobia (however you're comfortable defining it) is acceptable? Or if you agree transphobia is bad but think people go to far in lumping things into transphobia? I think it's the latter but I don't think I saw you say it specifically. | ||
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On July 17 2019 11:08 KwarK wrote: As everyone except Nettles understands. The only thing foreign about AOC is her skin and her name, and that’s only if you believe that the US should be solely populated by Northern Europeans. Dude, AOC is white AF. This idea that descendants of Spanish folks are non-white is hilarious (which is why white people yelling at other white people because they're Mexican is pretty comical). | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12559 Posts
On July 17 2019 13:20 Danglars wrote: You may also confirm that I answered your question, and you didn't like my answer, and previously confused that with not answering you. This did not happen btw | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On July 17 2019 13:32 Wegandi wrote: Dude, AOC is white AF. This idea that descendants of Spanish folks are non-white is hilarious (which is why white people yelling at other white people because they're Mexican is pretty comical). descendants of spanish folks encounter racism based on the fact that they are descendants of spanish folks | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On July 17 2019 13:31 GreenHorizons wrote: I understand your point but I'm confused as to whether you think transphobia (however you're comfortable defining it) is acceptable? Or if you agree transphobia is bad but think people go to far in lumping things into transphobia? I think it's the latter but I don't think I saw you say it specifically. The definition is the problem, and I think the usage such as from the linked article delves into why. If I consider the main things from last discussion, which Nebuchad strangely thinks isn't a criticism of transphobia, as one big limit, the other would be lack of individual decency and equal legal protections (like lobbying the government for change, free speech, federally recognized unions). I don't know if I'll ever know why Nebuchad omits the inconvenient answers, still professing to desire answers. I'll review the reasoning he gave to for condoning punching nazis while admitting he couldn't be so sure, because that was also ideology and reaction. | ||
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