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On January 14 2015 01:32 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2015 01:29 Incognoto wrote:On January 14 2015 01:18 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:17 Incognoto wrote:On January 14 2015 01:14 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:10 Incognoto wrote:On January 14 2015 01:07 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:03 Incognoto wrote:
Why would they deserve "special care" when genocide has occurred before and after the Holocaust? If you were a victim, that is understandable, I suppose. What about the Chinese or the Armenians? Native Americans? Hell, I could do some research and probably find a list of "groups of people" which were subject to atrocities.
Well, at this point I'm just playing devil's advocate to see what your stance is, I don't feel particularly strongly about the issue. I still feel that the Jewish community should not be put above anyone else.
Edit: OK... so now you're calling people Nazis? WhiteDog's point seemed rather reasonable to me. the very argument of saying "jews are put above others" is 100% antisemitic propaganda but whatever keep going on man... In the very specific context of the Primer Minister saying he would regret the departure of 100k Jewish people more than 100k Spaniards, yes I do think that "jews are put above others". You yourself are saying that Jewish people deserve special treatment (your own words!) for the Holocaust which took place 50 years ago. I'm asking why, since there are lots of populations which had atrocities committed to them. again you miss the whole point of the rhetoric figure used in the speech maybe there's a special care indeed to a group of people that was decimated 50 years ago and blamed throughout history for about everything you can imagine Answer the question? i didnt want to bother since if you reread what you wrote you might have understood how stupid what you said was don't you think that for instance, if special care was done for native americans much earlier in history and in society they wouldn't be in the current atrocious state they live in ? Ségolène Royal went to Israel with the four Jewish deceased, which in itself comes off as a "we're sorry this happened" to the Jewish people, when in fact all of France was struck by these attacks. It leaves a funny taste in the mouth. -_- a casher supermarket was targeted ? there is no "country of medias" ? there is no "country of cartoonists"?
The people who died in the supermarket weren't French then? Why didn't the government send anyone to Tunisia in honor of the dead police officer who was brutally murdered?
You ignored the rest of my post.
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On January 14 2015 01:37 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2015 01:36 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:33 WhiteDog wrote:On January 14 2015 01:29 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:26 WhiteDog wrote:On January 14 2015 01:19 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:18 WhiteDog wrote:On January 14 2015 01:16 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:13 WhiteDog wrote:On January 14 2015 01:12 Boonbag wrote:
[quote]
okay now thats something
first off you don't know where ive been / lived whatever
also I wasn't replying to you in the last post
and tell me whenever you faced some discrimination because of the jews ?
that's sick
if anything colonial racism is the matrix of all the discrimation going on in France
and that has nothing to do with hebrews as far as i know Do you read ? Most inequalities in France have nothing to do with racism. my own experience argues very strongly against that statement Your experience is irrelevant. I'm talking about the reality, from a macro perspective. lol what? what's macro perspective ? Macro mean big, micro is small. Your experience is subjective, thus small. From a macro perspective, what are France problem ? Unemployment, lack of growth, lack of recognition for our institutions, etc. There is less racism than ever in France (compare it to any other country, or to our past, and it becomes obvious). and you're the one that told me i should step into a poor area economics have pretty much nothing to do as of today with a segregation going on since 200 years in france There are macro proof of what I said tho : the fame of Dieudonné, A. Soral, the mainy books wrote by specialists in social sciences. Racism and antisemitism ? Outside of some really specific incident (murder, terrorism) there's not much racism in France. Segregation in France is factual not manufactured nor desired. fyi it was manufactured in our colonies and it seems just allright we pretty much treat them the same way here we used to do over there oh yeah its fucking factual idd It's not manufactured in France. It's the common social class of those people that force them to stay, because of their revenu, in some specific area, and not their race. That's important if you compare it to the US.
you gotta travel around country side man
ppl are awfully poor and awfully racist too
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On January 14 2015 01:39 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2015 01:32 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:29 Incognoto wrote:On January 14 2015 01:18 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:17 Incognoto wrote:On January 14 2015 01:14 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:10 Incognoto wrote:On January 14 2015 01:07 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:03 Incognoto wrote:
Why would they deserve "special care" when genocide has occurred before and after the Holocaust? If you were a victim, that is understandable, I suppose. What about the Chinese or the Armenians? Native Americans? Hell, I could do some research and probably find a list of "groups of people" which were subject to atrocities.
Well, at this point I'm just playing devil's advocate to see what your stance is, I don't feel particularly strongly about the issue. I still feel that the Jewish community should not be put above anyone else.
Edit: OK... so now you're calling people Nazis? WhiteDog's point seemed rather reasonable to me. the very argument of saying "jews are put above others" is 100% antisemitic propaganda but whatever keep going on man... In the very specific context of the Primer Minister saying he would regret the departure of 100k Jewish people more than 100k Spaniards, yes I do think that "jews are put above others". You yourself are saying that Jewish people deserve special treatment (your own words!) for the Holocaust which took place 50 years ago. I'm asking why, since there are lots of populations which had atrocities committed to them. again you miss the whole point of the rhetoric figure used in the speech maybe there's a special care indeed to a group of people that was decimated 50 years ago and blamed throughout history for about everything you can imagine Answer the question? i didnt want to bother since if you reread what you wrote you might have understood how stupid what you said was don't you think that for instance, if special care was done for native americans much earlier in history and in society they wouldn't be in the current atrocious state they live in ? Ségolène Royal went to Israel with the four Jewish deceased, which in itself comes off as a "we're sorry this happened" to the Jewish people, when in fact all of France was struck by these attacks. It leaves a funny taste in the mouth. -_- a casher supermarket was targeted ? there is no "country of medias" ? there is no "country of cartoonists"? The people who died in the supermarket weren't French then? Why didn't the government send anyone to Tunisia in honor of the dead police officer who was brutally murdered? You ignored the rest of my post.
The tunisian french policeman that died was killed because he was police.
The french jews that died in the kosher place died because they were jews.
Israel is the home of the jewish religion.
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On January 14 2015 01:41 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2015 01:37 WhiteDog wrote:On January 14 2015 01:36 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:33 WhiteDog wrote:On January 14 2015 01:29 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:26 WhiteDog wrote:On January 14 2015 01:19 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:18 WhiteDog wrote:On January 14 2015 01:16 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:13 WhiteDog wrote:
[quote]
Do you read ?
Most inequalities in France have nothing to do with racism. my own experience argues very strongly against that statement Your experience is irrelevant. I'm talking about the reality, from a macro perspective. lol what? what's macro perspective ? Macro mean big, micro is small. Your experience is subjective, thus small. From a macro perspective, what are France problem ? Unemployment, lack of growth, lack of recognition for our institutions, etc. There is less racism than ever in France (compare it to any other country, or to our past, and it becomes obvious). and you're the one that told me i should step into a poor area economics have pretty much nothing to do as of today with a segregation going on since 200 years in france There are macro proof of what I said tho : the fame of Dieudonné, A. Soral, the mainy books wrote by specialists in social sciences. Racism and antisemitism ? Outside of some really specific incident (murder, terrorism) there's not much racism in France. Segregation in France is factual not manufactured nor desired. fyi it was manufactured in our colonies and it seems just allright we pretty much treat them the same way here we used to do over there oh yeah its fucking factual idd It's not manufactured in France. It's the common social class of those people that force them to stay, because of their revenu, in some specific area, and not their race. That's important if you compare it to the US. you gotta travel around country side man ppl are awfully poor and awfully racist too
The politicians made it that way. It doesn't mean racism is our core problem.
Israel is the home of the jewish religion.
Israel is also the last unresolved colonial question.
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On January 14 2015 01:42 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2015 01:41 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:37 WhiteDog wrote:On January 14 2015 01:36 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:33 WhiteDog wrote:On January 14 2015 01:29 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:26 WhiteDog wrote:On January 14 2015 01:19 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:18 WhiteDog wrote:On January 14 2015 01:16 Boonbag wrote:
[quote]
my own experience argues very strongly against that statement Your experience is irrelevant. I'm talking about the reality, from a macro perspective. lol what? what's macro perspective ? Macro mean big, micro is small. Your experience is subjective, thus small. From a macro perspective, what are France problem ? Unemployment, lack of growth, lack of recognition for our institutions, etc. There is less racism than ever in France (compare it to any other country, or to our past, and it becomes obvious). and you're the one that told me i should step into a poor area economics have pretty much nothing to do as of today with a segregation going on since 200 years in france There are macro proof of what I said tho : the fame of Dieudonné, A. Soral, the mainy books wrote by specialists in social sciences. Racism and antisemitism ? Outside of some really specific incident (murder, terrorism) there's not much racism in France. Segregation in France is factual not manufactured nor desired. fyi it was manufactured in our colonies and it seems just allright we pretty much treat them the same way here we used to do over there oh yeah its fucking factual idd It's not manufactured in France. It's the common social class of those people that force them to stay, because of their revenu, in some specific area, and not their race. That's important if you compare it to the US. you gotta travel around country side man ppl are awfully poor and awfully racist too The politicians made it that way. It doesn't mean racism is our core problem. Israel is also the last colonial question unresolved.
not beeing the core problem of world economics doesn't exactly mean it's not one of the main issues in this fucking country
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On January 14 2015 01:42 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2015 01:39 Incognoto wrote:On January 14 2015 01:32 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:29 Incognoto wrote:On January 14 2015 01:18 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:17 Incognoto wrote:On January 14 2015 01:14 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:10 Incognoto wrote:On January 14 2015 01:07 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:03 Incognoto wrote:
Why would they deserve "special care" when genocide has occurred before and after the Holocaust? If you were a victim, that is understandable, I suppose. What about the Chinese or the Armenians? Native Americans? Hell, I could do some research and probably find a list of "groups of people" which were subject to atrocities.
Well, at this point I'm just playing devil's advocate to see what your stance is, I don't feel particularly strongly about the issue. I still feel that the Jewish community should not be put above anyone else.
Edit: OK... so now you're calling people Nazis? WhiteDog's point seemed rather reasonable to me. the very argument of saying "jews are put above others" is 100% antisemitic propaganda but whatever keep going on man... In the very specific context of the Primer Minister saying he would regret the departure of 100k Jewish people more than 100k Spaniards, yes I do think that "jews are put above others". You yourself are saying that Jewish people deserve special treatment (your own words!) for the Holocaust which took place 50 years ago. I'm asking why, since there are lots of populations which had atrocities committed to them. again you miss the whole point of the rhetoric figure used in the speech maybe there's a special care indeed to a group of people that was decimated 50 years ago and blamed throughout history for about everything you can imagine Answer the question? i didnt want to bother since if you reread what you wrote you might have understood how stupid what you said was don't you think that for instance, if special care was done for native americans much earlier in history and in society they wouldn't be in the current atrocious state they live in ? Ségolène Royal went to Israel with the four Jewish deceased, which in itself comes off as a "we're sorry this happened" to the Jewish people, when in fact all of France was struck by these attacks. It leaves a funny taste in the mouth. -_- a casher supermarket was targeted ? there is no "country of medias" ? there is no "country of cartoonists"? The people who died in the supermarket weren't French then? Why didn't the government send anyone to Tunisia in honor of the dead police officer who was brutally murdered? You ignored the rest of my post. The tunisian french policeman that died was killed because he was police. The french jews that died in the kosher place died because they were jews. Israel is the home of the jewish religion.
I thought that France was the home of the people who died in the market.
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On January 14 2015 01:42 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2015 01:41 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:37 WhiteDog wrote:On January 14 2015 01:36 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:33 WhiteDog wrote:On January 14 2015 01:29 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:26 WhiteDog wrote:On January 14 2015 01:19 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:18 WhiteDog wrote:On January 14 2015 01:16 Boonbag wrote:
[quote]
my own experience argues very strongly against that statement Your experience is irrelevant. I'm talking about the reality, from a macro perspective. lol what? what's macro perspective ? Macro mean big, micro is small. Your experience is subjective, thus small. From a macro perspective, what are France problem ? Unemployment, lack of growth, lack of recognition for our institutions, etc. There is less racism than ever in France (compare it to any other country, or to our past, and it becomes obvious). and you're the one that told me i should step into a poor area economics have pretty much nothing to do as of today with a segregation going on since 200 years in france There are macro proof of what I said tho : the fame of Dieudonné, A. Soral, the mainy books wrote by specialists in social sciences. Racism and antisemitism ? Outside of some really specific incident (murder, terrorism) there's not much racism in France. Segregation in France is factual not manufactured nor desired. fyi it was manufactured in our colonies and it seems just allright we pretty much treat them the same way here we used to do over there oh yeah its fucking factual idd It's not manufactured in France. It's the common social class of those people that force them to stay, because of their revenu, in some specific area, and not their race. That's important if you compare it to the US. you gotta travel around country side man ppl are awfully poor and awfully racist too The politicians made it that way. It doesn't mean racism is our core problem. Israel is also the last unresolved colonial question.
lol certainly not the last and as far as i know, no old colony is yet in the top 5 world economic power so i guess some pretty big issues about this are still to be resolved
Israel is a country born from war and at war with its neighbourhood since its conception
indeed as you point out colonialism is a pretty fucking bad thing that brings alot of shit
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On January 14 2015 01:45 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2015 01:42 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:39 Incognoto wrote:On January 14 2015 01:32 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:29 Incognoto wrote:On January 14 2015 01:18 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:17 Incognoto wrote:On January 14 2015 01:14 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:10 Incognoto wrote:On January 14 2015 01:07 Boonbag wrote:
[quote]
the very argument of saying "jews are put above others" is 100% antisemitic propaganda but whatever keep going on man... In the very specific context of the Primer Minister saying he would regret the departure of 100k Jewish people more than 100k Spaniards, yes I do think that "jews are put above others". You yourself are saying that Jewish people deserve special treatment (your own words!) for the Holocaust which took place 50 years ago. I'm asking why, since there are lots of populations which had atrocities committed to them. again you miss the whole point of the rhetoric figure used in the speech maybe there's a special care indeed to a group of people that was decimated 50 years ago and blamed throughout history for about everything you can imagine Answer the question? i didnt want to bother since if you reread what you wrote you might have understood how stupid what you said was don't you think that for instance, if special care was done for native americans much earlier in history and in society they wouldn't be in the current atrocious state they live in ? Ségolène Royal went to Israel with the four Jewish deceased, which in itself comes off as a "we're sorry this happened" to the Jewish people, when in fact all of France was struck by these attacks. It leaves a funny taste in the mouth. -_- a casher supermarket was targeted ? there is no "country of medias" ? there is no "country of cartoonists"? The people who died in the supermarket weren't French then? Why didn't the government send anyone to Tunisia in honor of the dead police officer who was brutally murdered? You ignored the rest of my post. The tunisian french policeman that died was killed because he was police. The french jews that died in the kosher place died because they were jews. Israel is the home of the jewish religion. I thought that France was the home of the people who died in the market.
they were killed not because of beeing french but because of going to the fucking synagogue
do you u n d e r s t a n d ?
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Ok I've read quite a lot from Boonbag in this thread and I can safely assume you're very very close to the jewish community in France which wouldn't be a problem aside the fact that you're really biased to use that professor tone.
Because what's actually happening is that "jewish community" is put on a pedestal exactly how it was said above, ie: media coverage about antisemitism mostly, and guess what? covered by the most outraged very important zionist personnalities.
A lot of everyday-guy jewish people don't want to feel hunted and persecuted, right? That's the same for everyone and every community. So don't show only jewish handicaps when everyone is suffering from something.
That's basic understanding of "How to not divise and keep unity" my friend.
So... if you put zionist (not even everyday guy jew but people like: Jacques Attali, Bernard Henri Levy, Finkelkraut, Manuel Valls(he's a nonjew zionist but the prime minister of France), Meyer Habib etc etc) personnalities talking about how islam is bad for france when they are actually representing the most extreme right winged israeli politic undercover france's laicity and fraternity; Yes, UNFORTUNATELY that will lead to some young ignorant maghrebians triggering fucking crazy shit that I don't want to see in my country again.
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On January 14 2015 01:50 Khanz wrote:
Ok I've read quite a lot from Boonbag in this thread and I can safely assume you're very very close to the jewish community in France which wouldn't be a problem aside the fact that you're really biased to use that professor tone.
Because what's actually happening is that "jewish community" is put on a pedestal exactly how it was said above, ie: media coverage about antisemitism mostly, and guess what? covered by the most outraged very important zionist personnalities.
A lot of everyday-guy jewish people don't want to feel hunted and persecuted, right? That's the same for everyone and every community. So don't show only jewish handicaps when everyone is suffering from something.
That's basic understanding of "How to not divise and keep unity" my friend.
So... if you put zionist (not even everyday guy jew but people like: Jacques Attali, Bernard Henri Levy, Finkelkraut, Manuel Valls(he's a nonjew zionist but the prime minister of France), Meyer Habib etc etc) personnalities talking about how islam is bad for france when they are actually representing the most extreme right winged israeli politic undercover france's laicity and fraternity; Yes, UNFORTUNATELY that will lead to some young ignorant maghrebians triggering fucking crazy shit that I don't want to see in my country again.
okay so im certainly not
i despise jewish communtarism to the upmost level
i despise most of jewish mysoginic traditions and customs
i despise most of their greek and twisted plagiarism
i however love hebrew
edit : im just pretty sick of the jewish conspiracy propaganda i guess
and i never said jewish cultist representants were anything for the most part but arrogant, fascist and lying personalities
so your analysis is pretty off
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On January 14 2015 01:52 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2015 01:50 Khanz wrote:
Ok I've read quite a lot from Boonbag in this thread and I can safely assume you're very very close to the jewish community in France which wouldn't be a problem aside the fact that you're really biased to use that professor tone.
Because what's actually happening is that "jewish community" is put on a pedestal exactly how it was said above, ie: media coverage about antisemitism mostly, and guess what? covered by the most outraged very important zionist personnalities.
A lot of everyday-guy jewish people don't want to feel hunted and persecuted, right? That's the same for everyone and every community. So don't show only jewish handicaps when everyone is suffering from something.
That's basic understanding of "How to not divise and keep unity" my friend.
So... if you put zionist (not even everyday guy jew but people like: Jacques Attali, Bernard Henri Levy, Finkelkraut, Manuel Valls(he's a nonjew zionist but the prime minister of France), Meyer Habib etc etc) personnalities talking about how islam is bad for france when they are actually representing the most extreme right winged israeli politic undercover france's laicity and fraternity; Yes, UNFORTUNATELY that will lead to some young ignorant maghrebians triggering fucking crazy shit that I don't want to see in my country again. okay so im certainly not i despise jewish communtarism to the upmost level i despise most of jewish mysoginic traditions and customs i despise most of their greek and twisted plagiarism i however love hebrew edit : im just pretty sick of the jewish conspiracy propaganda i guess
I do love hebrew aswell and I think it is one of the most beautiful language ever and I'm pretty sick of people not seeing that normal jew people have mostly nothing to do with all that elite zionistic masquarade that is indeed made to migrate jews from all over the world to israel because guess what? they need a lot more people to make a stable country economically speaking to begin with.
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On January 14 2015 01:57 Khanz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2015 01:52 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:50 Khanz wrote:
Ok I've read quite a lot from Boonbag in this thread and I can safely assume you're very very close to the jewish community in France which wouldn't be a problem aside the fact that you're really biased to use that professor tone.
Because what's actually happening is that "jewish community" is put on a pedestal exactly how it was said above, ie: media coverage about antisemitism mostly, and guess what? covered by the most outraged very important zionist personnalities.
A lot of everyday-guy jewish people don't want to feel hunted and persecuted, right? That's the same for everyone and every community. So don't show only jewish handicaps when everyone is suffering from something.
That's basic understanding of "How to not divise and keep unity" my friend.
So... if you put zionist (not even everyday guy jew but people like: Jacques Attali, Bernard Henri Levy, Finkelkraut, Manuel Valls(he's a nonjew zionist but the prime minister of France), Meyer Habib etc etc) personnalities talking about how islam is bad for france when they are actually representing the most extreme right winged israeli politic undercover france's laicity and fraternity; Yes, UNFORTUNATELY that will lead to some young ignorant maghrebians triggering fucking crazy shit that I don't want to see in my country again. okay so im certainly not i despise jewish communtarism to the upmost level i despise most of jewish mysoginic traditions and customs i despise most of their greek and twisted plagiarism i however love hebrew edit : im just pretty sick of the jewish conspiracy propaganda i guess I do love hebrew aswell and I think it is one of the most beautiful language ever and I'm pretty sick of people not seeing that normal jew people have mostly nothing to do with all that elite zionistic masquarade that is indeed made to migrate jews from all over the world to israel because guess what? they need a lot more people to make a stable country economically speaking to begin with.
i perfectly agree with that and i despise the political israel elites to the last degree
they're not even politicians they're basically warriors
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On January 14 2015 01:57 Khanz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2015 01:52 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:50 Khanz wrote:
Ok I've read quite a lot from Boonbag in this thread and I can safely assume you're very very close to the jewish community in France which wouldn't be a problem aside the fact that you're really biased to use that professor tone.
Because what's actually happening is that "jewish community" is put on a pedestal exactly how it was said above, ie: media coverage about antisemitism mostly, and guess what? covered by the most outraged very important zionist personnalities.
A lot of everyday-guy jewish people don't want to feel hunted and persecuted, right? That's the same for everyone and every community. So don't show only jewish handicaps when everyone is suffering from something.
That's basic understanding of "How to not divise and keep unity" my friend.
So... if you put zionist (not even everyday guy jew but people like: Jacques Attali, Bernard Henri Levy, Finkelkraut, Manuel Valls(he's a nonjew zionist but the prime minister of France), Meyer Habib etc etc) personnalities talking about how islam is bad for france when they are actually representing the most extreme right winged israeli politic undercover france's laicity and fraternity; Yes, UNFORTUNATELY that will lead to some young ignorant maghrebians triggering fucking crazy shit that I don't want to see in my country again. okay so im certainly not i despise jewish communtarism to the upmost level i despise most of jewish mysoginic traditions and customs i despise most of their greek and twisted plagiarism i however love hebrew edit : im just pretty sick of the jewish conspiracy propaganda i guess I do love hebrew aswell and I think it is one of the most beautiful language ever and I'm pretty sick of people not seeing that normal jew people have mostly nothing to do with all that elite zionistic masquarade.
Well I don't know mate, the fact that the 4 hostage victims were Jewish was pretty unimportant to me at first. To me they were just French people, barring that, just people who unfortunately died. I was quickly reminded that it wasn't the deaths that were important; rather it's Jewish people dying which is relevant here. My very own Prime Minister made sure that I wouldn't forget, I'm quite thankful for it. Another government minister made sure that the deceased would be returned to Israel, their true home (because their stay in France was temporary, or something).
On a more serious note I tend to disregard ethnicity and religion and things like that, because to me they are unimportant. One isn't greater or lesser because of those traits. I am however constantly reminded, by the media, by others, that such traits are actually very important. These distinguishing traits are constantly maintained by the media, if that makes sense. They make sure that everyone has a good view on everyone else's labels. This only contributes to aggravate the problem and increase the social rift between different communities. It's annoying.
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On January 14 2015 02:04 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2015 01:57 Khanz wrote:On January 14 2015 01:52 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:50 Khanz wrote:
Ok I've read quite a lot from Boonbag in this thread and I can safely assume you're very very close to the jewish community in France which wouldn't be a problem aside the fact that you're really biased to use that professor tone.
Because what's actually happening is that "jewish community" is put on a pedestal exactly how it was said above, ie: media coverage about antisemitism mostly, and guess what? covered by the most outraged very important zionist personnalities.
A lot of everyday-guy jewish people don't want to feel hunted and persecuted, right? That's the same for everyone and every community. So don't show only jewish handicaps when everyone is suffering from something.
That's basic understanding of "How to not divise and keep unity" my friend.
So... if you put zionist (not even everyday guy jew but people like: Jacques Attali, Bernard Henri Levy, Finkelkraut, Manuel Valls(he's a nonjew zionist but the prime minister of France), Meyer Habib etc etc) personnalities talking about how islam is bad for france when they are actually representing the most extreme right winged israeli politic undercover france's laicity and fraternity; Yes, UNFORTUNATELY that will lead to some young ignorant maghrebians triggering fucking crazy shit that I don't want to see in my country again. okay so im certainly not i despise jewish communtarism to the upmost level i despise most of jewish mysoginic traditions and customs i despise most of their greek and twisted plagiarism i however love hebrew edit : im just pretty sick of the jewish conspiracy propaganda i guess I do love hebrew aswell and I think it is one of the most beautiful language ever and I'm pretty sick of people not seeing that normal jew people have mostly nothing to do with all that elite zionistic masquarade. Well I don't know mate, the fact that the 4 hostage victims were Jewish was pretty unimportant to me at first. To me they were just French people, barring that, just people who unfortunately died. I was quickly reminded that it wasn't the deaths that were important; rather it's Jewish people dying which is relevant here. My very own Prime Minister made sure that I wouldn't forget, I'm quite thankful for it. Another government minister made sure that the deceased would be returned to Israel, their true home (because their stay in France was temporary, or something). On a more serious note I tend to disregard ethnicity and religion and things like that, because to me they are unimportant. One isn't greater or lesser because of those traits. I am however constantly reminded, by the media, by others, that such traits are actually very important. These distinguishing traits are constantly maintained by the media, if that makes sense. They make sure that everyone has a good view on everyone else's labels. This only contributes to aggravate the problem and increase the social rift between different communities. It's annoying.
well ppl have different cultures and to some extent you must acknowledge these and respect what is prone to be respected in these
also they talk alot about communities and bash people because it rakes huge audience on radio and tv
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For me at least, it's always acknowledged and it's always respected, at least from my personal point of view. It is however, not used in my mind to judge. I understand that a difference is there but I don't attribute any particular value (as in x is better than y) to those differences.
Many don't unfortunately and indeed, these issues are often used as fuel for media, which then feeds off it and then contributes to the problem. It's a vicious circle which people need to be aware of if they want to remain partial. This is part of my problem with French media (though I'm sure other media around the world has this issue, in particular the United States).
I'm glad that at very least we've come to an understanding, generally speaking Internet debates don't end much better than this. Discussion will always change ideas and make them evolve to something greater than they originally were, my own views have been altered a bit today, I can say that much.
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On January 14 2015 00:09 Incognoto wrote:Ah yes, some more CRS SS. Indeed French police forces are Nazis, let's not forget that. I had no idea Cabu criticized the military so harshly. That's pretty ironic, did he not realize that the armed forces of France are the ones who are combating terrorism in the Mali, Syria, Afghanistan, etc? It was the GIGN who brought an end to the situation. E: Ah that explanation you posted though makes a lot of sense, thank you for that.
Yeah well, they are soixante huitards anarcho far left alternative people. You expect they will love our robocops and the army? Of course they puke the army.
My point is really just about the fact they were SO not racists.
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On January 14 2015 01:26 WhiteDog wrote:
There is less racism than ever in France (compare it to any other country, or to our past, and it becomes obvious).
In the near total absence of official statistics, how would you even know this? For one easy to find out statistic, try this: how many legislators does France have who are practicing Muslims?
On January 14 2015 01:10 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2015 01:07 Boonbag wrote:On January 14 2015 01:03 Incognoto wrote:
Why would they deserve "special care" when genocide has occurred before and after the Holocaust? If you were a victim, that is understandable, I suppose. What about the Chinese or the Armenians? Native Americans? Hell, I could do some research and probably find a list of "groups of people" which were subject to atrocities.
Well, at this point I'm just playing devil's advocate to see what your stance is, I don't feel particularly strongly about the issue. I still feel that the Jewish community should not be put above anyone else.
Edit: OK... so now you're calling people Nazis? WhiteDog's point seemed rather reasonable to me. the very argument of saying "jews are put above others" is 100% antisemitic propaganda but whatever keep going on man... In the very specific context of the Primer Minister saying he would regret the departure of 100k Jewish people more than 100k Spaniards, yes I do think that "jews are put above others". You yourself are saying that Jewish people deserve special treatment (your own words!) for the Holocaust which took place 50 years ago. I'm asking why, since there are lots of populations which had atrocities committed to them.
Because the French government didn't participate in the other genocides. The Shoah is a big deal in Europe because Europe did that. The Tutsi genocide is a big deal in Rwanda. You focus on the specific things your culture had a part in and ask how you were part of that terrible evil, and do all you can to prevent it. Valls point (badly said) is that no-one has recently tried to genocide away the Spanish people in France.
On January 13 2015 17:59 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 17:45 Incognoto wrote:On January 13 2015 17:33 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 17:27 Incognoto wrote:On January 13 2015 17:15 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On January 13 2015 16:53 Incognoto wrote:Valls, a Socialist who is the son of Spanish immigrants, describes the threat of a Jewish exodus from France this way: “If 100,000 French people of Spanish origin were to leave, I would never say that France is not France anymore. But if 100,000 Jews leave, France will no longer be France. The French Republic will be judged a failure.” I don't understand this. Why? Are Spaniards not as important or something? Edit: Ok maybe I'm just stupid or something, I don't know, I'm not smart enough to be French, I guess? Why is the hostage situation in the market an attack towards Jewish people rather than France? Antisemitism is obviously on the rise but that's not the only form of intolerance which is gaining ground in France, so why on earth are we so quick to suck up to the Jewish? Because an attack on a Kosher Supermarket is an attack on Jewish people. People were shopping for food for Shabbat dinner most likely and the fact that Coulibaly targeted this market in particular says that he was targeting Jews. Of course antisemitism isn't the only form of intolerance out there, this was also an attack on the French people. But saying that this isn't an act of antisemitism, in my eyes, is pretending that the problem isn't there and that people would rather focus on this as just an attack on France, which it is, and not on the fact that this is also an attack on the Jews of France. ahh I see this is why the rest of us inferior french (french french, muslim french, spanish french) can leave the country and the prime minister won't give a shit i dont think valls's statement made a ton of sense, but it doesn't justify getting angry at him for trying to comfort the jewish population at a time of great anxiety. It does when you take a shit on the rest of the non-Jewish population. Let's also be serious here, what's going on in Israel and Palestine is not only fucking stupid, it's disgusting. Someone please remind me again why that war is going on? I keep forgetting where Israel gets the money to pay for all their shiny American military equipment. Read up a bit, indeed the kosher market was targeted because it was a Jewish establishment. The terrorist in question justified his actions by saying that Muslims weren't being left alone. Mali and Syria. "The Islamic state is being attacked.", "they are unveiling our women" and "our brothers are going to jail for nothing". Of course the attacks aren't justified, then again it's hard to ignore the general Western contempt for Muslims. The West is indeed invading a lot of Islamic states, so why would it be surprising for them to try to get back at us? I don't condone the attacks but at very least I know why they took place. Of course, let's be real here, Hell will freeze over before someone ever listens to a Muslim protesting peacefully. yesterday I came across this superb tweet from Max Strasser, associate editor of Foreign Policy. the french <3
This is gold. This is the most proud of the French I've been in a week where I've been very proud of the French.
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Free speech is dangerous...
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On January 14 2015 03:32 Yoav wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2015 01:26 WhiteDog wrote:
There is less racism than ever in France (compare it to any other country, or to our past, and it becomes obvious). In the near total absence of official statistics, how would you even know this? For one easy to find out statistic, try this: how many legislators does France have who are practicing Muslims?
How does that question address how much or how little racism there is in France... ?
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On January 14 2015 12:16 Eliezar wrote:
Free speech is dangerous...
Indeed it is.
I am still trying to wrap my head around everything going on. I really appreciate some of the information Incognoto, Biff, Whitedog, and other participants provided.
Before this heinous attack, I knew very little about the socio-political issues surrounding France and Europe. Now I feel like I took a crash course on it, but at the cost of innocent blood. I kind of feel bad though, knowing that this education cost someone else's life.
I can only pray and hope that everyone can extract a bit of knowledge from this atrocity, and remember that the first step to peace is understanding.
Thank you everyone for helping me understand a little bit more.
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EPT
