European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 880

On May 30 2017 22:39 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
To continue your line of reasoning xM)Z what would be the interests to which a German army would defend? Why it would be Germany itself, and her political, economic and military alliances that also protects Germany. In recent times it is actually fairly obvious what that is, as there is a fairly large and nearby country that has no qualms about using unconventional warfare to achieve their own aims, including using special forces, cyberwarfare and covert invasion to destabilize countries that are percieved to bacting against her interests. No I'm not talking about UK or France. The real question is in what shape would such military spending entail? Afterall the German military seems to be focused on humanitarian capacity than actual military capacity. For instance, their new warships being built are actually giant rescue and supply ships with a veneer of military capability.

On May 31 2017 01:04 Nyxisto wrote:


This has been posted often in this thread but it is at least kind of misleading. Germany's intra-EU trade balance is not that enormous.
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The bulk of German export growth isn't located in the EU, we've simply profited more from the fact that we have a pretty solid position on the international markets, and it's dubious whether prices even play the dominant role here.

On May 31 2017 01:27 Yurie wrote:


Something to not forget when seeing the positive trade balances large parts of EU enjoy is The Good Country Index. Rating how others perceive a country and by extension their companies (the actual rating is meaningless since most don't know about it, what it shows is relevant though). Doing well there makes it easier to compete, something we can afford after building up the previous centuries instead of now.

Take the recent Russian situation. It imposed sanctions on many of their companies, tightened borders and generally made people distrust things connected to the country. Same with NK where we don't trust them at all and thus exclude them from the world market. China is also spooking a lot of people and thus somewhat decreasing their companies competitiveness abroad. It is an interesting factor that Europe should keep going for.

Building a reputation takes decades and it is easy to damage it as can be seen with Trump right now. Germany enjoys a reputation for excellence in manufacturing and quality. Allowing their companies to sell at a higher price than the same product produced in India would allow.

Sorry for going off on a tangent here but it is an important thing to consider when talking about interfering abroad. Especially for tourism and recruitment abroad it matters.

On May 31 2017 01:57 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
I'm quite suprised by how high the UK is and how low Japan and Finland and Norway is.

On May 30 2017 22:58 Broetchenholer wrote:


Uh, am i stupid or are you completely miquoting that poll? In 2014, 37% of Germans voiced that Germany should get more involved. First, that is something entirely different from saying the country should get a bigger army. Second, that went down from 62%. Third if you read the entire article you linked, they specifically claim that they want to keep peace in the world and oppose fighting wars for economical gain.

Taking that article and using it as proof for increased german desires for greatness is either lazy or dishonest.

On May 30 2017 22:58 Broetchenholer wrote:


Uh, am i stupid or are you completely miquoting that poll? In 2014, 37% of Germans voiced that Germany should get more involved. First, that is something entirely different from saying the country should get a bigger army. Second, that went down from 62%. Third if you read the entire article you linked, they specifically claim that they want to keep peace in the world and oppose fighting wars for economical gain.

Taking that article and using it as proof for increased german desires for greatness is either lazy or dishonest.

Berlin is still more reluctant than Paris to deploy robust military force, partly because of cautious public opinion. A series of Koerber Stiftung opinion polls from January 2015 to October 2016 shows an increase in the willingness of Germans to take a more active role in international crisis management (from 34% to 41%), but a majority still prefer restraint.

It is not entirely clear who would command such an army — national governments or the Brussels-based EU institutions — nor what it would do in practice. But the idea has a lot of appeal in Germany for a host of historical and political reasons (54% of Germans support the idea according to a Friedrich-Ebert-Stiftung poll taken in September). An EU army would be the ultimate expression of European political unity: in other words, EU defence is primarily an integration project for some in Berlin.

Huge portions of the Dutch military are being merged with the German Army, a process that many want to see rolled out across the whole Continent. Two of the Netherland’s three combat brigades have officially begun the process of joining the Bundeswehr.

The 11th Airmobile Brigade came under German command in 2014. Then on March 17, the 43rd Mechanized Brigade officially became part of the German 1st Armored Division. The Dutch Army now has only the 13th Mechanized Brigade, plus special forces, support and headquarters staff under its own command.

This is a revolutionary change, not just for the Netherlands, but for Europe and, in time, the world. It is paving the way for a newly capable German-led military force.

There have been so many token efforts at forming multinational forces that it is easy to gloss over what has just happened. But the Dutch aren’t just doing training maneuvers with Germany. Lt. Gen. Mart de Kruif, commander of the Royal Netherlands Army, called the collaboration “unique in the world, both in the way and the level in which we integrate.”
...
“In all previous collaborations was agreed that troops operations continue to be subject to checks by the national institutions and procedures,” wrote Sachsische Zeitung. “The Sea Battalion of the German Navy could thus be involved, for example, only after approval of the Bundestag on a foreign deployment of the Dutch Navy” (Trumpet translation throughout).

Germany sees this unprecedented cooperation as only the start. It has begun preparations for similar arrangements with Poland. The Czech Republic has asked Germany several times for a similar arrangement to what the Dutch now have—it also wants one of its armored brigades absorbed into the German Army.

German Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen said she wants to build a European army this way. In February she announced, “We will set up a multinational panzer division next year.”

“This should create a unit with up to 20,000 active soldiers, which should be operational by 2021—which would be the nucleus of a European army,” wrote Die Welt.

Most now regard Allied victory as liberation from the Nazis, and only 9% as a defeat for Germany

A recent survey conducted by the Forsa Institute, a German polling and market research firm, found that the majority perceived the Allies’ victory as a liberation for Germany from the Nazi regime, with only 9 percent of Germans viewing World War II as a defeat — dramatically down from 34% in 2005.

On May 31 2017 19:12 opisska wrote:
This is nothing new, is it? In Germany, people are generally offended if you talk about what "Germans did" during the WWII - it was not them, it was "the Nazis" and the poor common Germans had nothing to do with that. Which is quite hypocritical, but on the other hand, what purpose would it serve to blame the whole nation, which is now made out of completely different people, barring some very old folks?

In general, I don't get the fear of Germans. Yeah, they had Nazism and caused a huge wave of horror, but honestly, which nation can say that they are immune to that? I just don't see why it should be more probable to happen again in Germany just because it happened once. The circumstances were different, the country was pretty battered from the war before and the ensuing politics and economy, nowadays it's one of the greatest countries on the planet in virtually any metrics.

On May 31 2017 19:12 opisska wrote:
This is nothing new, is it? In Germany, people are generally offended if you talk about what "Germans did" during the WWII - it was not them, it was "the Nazis" and the poor common Germans had nothing to do with that. Which is quite hypocritical, but on the other hand, what purpose would it serve to blame the whole nation, which is now made out of completely different people, barring some very old folks?