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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On July 26 2016 01:21 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +When you use the word "perp", you sound like a cliched cop or like judge dredd.
Or someone who speaks english and knows what perpetrator means, plus being too lazy to constantly type it out. Watch less movies. PS: perp/perpetrator literally is the translation of "Verursacher"/"Täter". You're welcome.
fewer. you're welcome.
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(Reuters) - The European Commission proposed on Wednesday to cancel fines for Spain and Portugal over their failure to cut their deficits to within EU limits and gave Madrid two more years and Lisbon one more year to make the required reductions.
The decision was made by the college of Commissioners after Spain and Portugal both pleaded for clemency in letters to the EU executive.
"Taking into account past efforts of Spain and Portugal, the current challenging environment and arguments laid out in the recent requests, the college agreed today to propose a cancellation of the fines for both Spain and Portugal," Commission Vice-President Valdis Dombrovskis told a news conference.
uk.mobile.reuters.com
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The French presidency announced a plan to form a national guard, in the wake of the terror attacks. “The President of the Republic [Francois Hollande] decided to establish the National Guard from the existing operating reserves,” the statement reads. Hollande said the government will “as soon as possible begin the establishment of this structure, which would serve to protect the French people.”
Hollande said he hoped the guard, made up of volunteers from the police, paramilitary police and military, would be operational by early autumn.
The announcement came after France suffered two attacks in less than a fortnight this month — in a bloody series that began with the January 2015 Charlie Hebdo killings — and the government has come under fierce criticism for alleged security lapses.
Calls arose for the National Guard following the November 13 jihadist massacre in Paris that claimed 130 lives.
The government urged all able-bodied volunteers to come forward with the goal of boosting the current 28,000 reservists by 12,000.
About 2,500 have already answered the call, according to the Interior Ministry.
In January he called for the number of army reserves to be boosted from the current 28,000 to 40,000 by 2019.
France has not had a national guard since 1872.
Source
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On July 26 2016 01:21 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +When you use the word "perp", you sound like a cliched cop or like judge dredd.
Or someone who speaks english and knows what perpetrator means, plus being too lazy to constantly type it out. Watch less movies. PS: perp/perpetrator literally is the translation of "Verursacher"/"Täter". You're welcome.
Actually to a native English speaker, you just sound like you watched too many American cop shows.
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Working with dubious sourcing, a group close to NATO's chief military commander Philip Breedlove sought to secure weapons deliveries for Ukraine, a trove of newly released emails revealed. The efforts served to intensify the conflict between the West and Russia.
In private, the general likes to wear leather. Philip Mark Breedlove, 60, is a well-known Harley-Davidson fan, and up until a few weeks ago, he also served as the commander of NATO and American troops in Europe. Even during his tenure as the military leader of the alliance, the American four-star general would trade his blue Air Force uniform for motorcycle gear and explore Europe's roads with his friends. [...]
Most of the 1,096 hacked emails date back to the dramatic 12 months of the Ukraine crisis after Russia annexed Crimea in March 2014. Thousands died in the skirmishes between Kiev's troops and Moscow-aligned separatists. More than 2 million civilians fled eastern Ukraine.
Russia supports the separatists with weapons, fighters and consultants. When people began calling for Washington to also massively intervene in 2015, the Ukraine conflict risked escalating into a war between East and West. [...]
The newly leaked emails reveal a clandestine network of Western agitators around the NATO military chief, whose presence fueled the conflict in Ukraine. Many allies found in Breedlove's alarmist public statements about alleged large Russian troop movements cause for concern early on. Earlier this year, the general was assuring the world that US European Command was "deterring Russia now and preparing to fight and win if necessary."
The emails document for the first time the questionable sources from whom Breedlove was getting his information. He had exaggerated Russian activities in eastern Ukraine with the overt goal of delivering weapons to Kiev.
The general and his likeminded colleagues perceived US President Barack Obama, the commander-in-chief of all American forces, as well as German Chancellor Angela Merkel as obstacles. Obama and Merkel were being "politically naive & counter-productive" in their calls for de-escalation, according to Phillip Karber, a central figure in Breedlove's network who was feeding information from Ukraine to the general.
"I think POTUS sees us as a threat that must be minimized,... ie do not get me into a war????" Breedlove wrote in one email, using the acronym for the president of the United States. How could Obama be persuaded to be more "engaged" in the conflict in Ukraine -- read: deliver weapons -- Breedlove had asked former Secretary of State Colin Powell.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/breedlove-network-sought-weapons-deliveries-for-ukraine-a-1104837.html
So apparently the west was really trying to force the motherland into attacking Ukraine. I don't know if I should post that in the Ukraine thread ?
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On July 30 2016 05:49 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2016 01:21 m4ini wrote:When you use the word "perp", you sound like a cliched cop or like judge dredd.
Or someone who speaks english and knows what perpetrator means, plus being too lazy to constantly type it out. Watch less movies. PS: perp/perpetrator literally is the translation of "Verursacher"/"Täter". You're welcome. Actually to a native English speaker, you just sound like you watched too many American cop shows.
Yeah, my bad for using the correct translation. I guess i should've said "suspect", even though it literally didn't say that (and means something else entirely). You're right, my bad.
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On July 30 2016 22:02 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +Working with dubious sourcing, a group close to NATO's chief military commander Philip Breedlove sought to secure weapons deliveries for Ukraine, a trove of newly released emails revealed. The efforts served to intensify the conflict between the West and Russia.
In private, the general likes to wear leather. Philip Mark Breedlove, 60, is a well-known Harley-Davidson fan, and up until a few weeks ago, he also served as the commander of NATO and American troops in Europe. Even during his tenure as the military leader of the alliance, the American four-star general would trade his blue Air Force uniform for motorcycle gear and explore Europe's roads with his friends. [...]
Most of the 1,096 hacked emails date back to the dramatic 12 months of the Ukraine crisis after Russia annexed Crimea in March 2014. Thousands died in the skirmishes between Kiev's troops and Moscow-aligned separatists. More than 2 million civilians fled eastern Ukraine.
Russia supports the separatists with weapons, fighters and consultants. When people began calling for Washington to also massively intervene in 2015, the Ukraine conflict risked escalating into a war between East and West. [...]
The newly leaked emails reveal a clandestine network of Western agitators around the NATO military chief, whose presence fueled the conflict in Ukraine. Many allies found in Breedlove's alarmist public statements about alleged large Russian troop movements cause for concern early on. Earlier this year, the general was assuring the world that US European Command was "deterring Russia now and preparing to fight and win if necessary."
The emails document for the first time the questionable sources from whom Breedlove was getting his information. He had exaggerated Russian activities in eastern Ukraine with the overt goal of delivering weapons to Kiev.
The general and his likeminded colleagues perceived US President Barack Obama, the commander-in-chief of all American forces, as well as German Chancellor Angela Merkel as obstacles. Obama and Merkel were being "politically naive & counter-productive" in their calls for de-escalation, according to Phillip Karber, a central figure in Breedlove's network who was feeding information from Ukraine to the general.
"I think POTUS sees us as a threat that must be minimized,... ie do not get me into a war????" Breedlove wrote in one email, using the acronym for the president of the United States. How could Obama be persuaded to be more "engaged" in the conflict in Ukraine -- read: deliver weapons -- Breedlove had asked former Secretary of State Colin Powell. http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/breedlove-network-sought-weapons-deliveries-for-ukraine-a-1104837.htmlSo apparently the west was really trying to force the motherland into attacking Ukraine. I don't know if I should post that in the Ukraine thread ?
I certainly read that differently.
The General exaggerated the presence of Russian soldiers in the Ukraine rebels in an attempt to sell weapons to Kiev.
There is nothing about forcing Russia into attacking. At this point in time Russia was already attacking Ukraine with the rebels as a proxy.
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On July 30 2016 22:02 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +Working with dubious sourcing, a group close to NATO's chief military commander Philip Breedlove sought to secure weapons deliveries for Ukraine, a trove of newly released emails revealed. The efforts served to intensify the conflict between the West and Russia.
In private, the general likes to wear leather. Philip Mark Breedlove, 60, is a well-known Harley-Davidson fan, and up until a few weeks ago, he also served as the commander of NATO and American troops in Europe. Even during his tenure as the military leader of the alliance, the American four-star general would trade his blue Air Force uniform for motorcycle gear and explore Europe's roads with his friends. [...]
Most of the 1,096 hacked emails date back to the dramatic 12 months of the Ukraine crisis after Russia annexed Crimea in March 2014. Thousands died in the skirmishes between Kiev's troops and Moscow-aligned separatists. More than 2 million civilians fled eastern Ukraine.
Russia supports the separatists with weapons, fighters and consultants. When people began calling for Washington to also massively intervene in 2015, the Ukraine conflict risked escalating into a war between East and West. [...]
The newly leaked emails reveal a clandestine network of Western agitators around the NATO military chief, whose presence fueled the conflict in Ukraine. Many allies found in Breedlove's alarmist public statements about alleged large Russian troop movements cause for concern early on. Earlier this year, the general was assuring the world that US European Command was "deterring Russia now and preparing to fight and win if necessary."
The emails document for the first time the questionable sources from whom Breedlove was getting his information. He had exaggerated Russian activities in eastern Ukraine with the overt goal of delivering weapons to Kiev.
The general and his likeminded colleagues perceived US President Barack Obama, the commander-in-chief of all American forces, as well as German Chancellor Angela Merkel as obstacles. Obama and Merkel were being "politically naive & counter-productive" in their calls for de-escalation, according to Phillip Karber, a central figure in Breedlove's network who was feeding information from Ukraine to the general.
"I think POTUS sees us as a threat that must be minimized,... ie do not get me into a war????" Breedlove wrote in one email, using the acronym for the president of the United States. How could Obama be persuaded to be more "engaged" in the conflict in Ukraine -- read: deliver weapons -- Breedlove had asked former Secretary of State Colin Powell. http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/breedlove-network-sought-weapons-deliveries-for-ukraine-a-1104837.htmlSo apparently the west was really trying to force the motherland into attacking Ukraine. I don't know if I should post that in the Ukraine thread ?
To me it looks more like the higher ups of the west tried to de-escalate and only a few in the military wanted to escalate things further. I would certainly not say the west tried to force anybody into attacking anything.
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On July 30 2016 23:06 RoomOfMush wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2016 22:02 WhiteDog wrote:Working with dubious sourcing, a group close to NATO's chief military commander Philip Breedlove sought to secure weapons deliveries for Ukraine, a trove of newly released emails revealed. The efforts served to intensify the conflict between the West and Russia.
In private, the general likes to wear leather. Philip Mark Breedlove, 60, is a well-known Harley-Davidson fan, and up until a few weeks ago, he also served as the commander of NATO and American troops in Europe. Even during his tenure as the military leader of the alliance, the American four-star general would trade his blue Air Force uniform for motorcycle gear and explore Europe's roads with his friends. [...]
Most of the 1,096 hacked emails date back to the dramatic 12 months of the Ukraine crisis after Russia annexed Crimea in March 2014. Thousands died in the skirmishes between Kiev's troops and Moscow-aligned separatists. More than 2 million civilians fled eastern Ukraine.
Russia supports the separatists with weapons, fighters and consultants. When people began calling for Washington to also massively intervene in 2015, the Ukraine conflict risked escalating into a war between East and West. [...]
The newly leaked emails reveal a clandestine network of Western agitators around the NATO military chief, whose presence fueled the conflict in Ukraine. Many allies found in Breedlove's alarmist public statements about alleged large Russian troop movements cause for concern early on. Earlier this year, the general was assuring the world that US European Command was "deterring Russia now and preparing to fight and win if necessary."
The emails document for the first time the questionable sources from whom Breedlove was getting his information. He had exaggerated Russian activities in eastern Ukraine with the overt goal of delivering weapons to Kiev.
The general and his likeminded colleagues perceived US President Barack Obama, the commander-in-chief of all American forces, as well as German Chancellor Angela Merkel as obstacles. Obama and Merkel were being "politically naive & counter-productive" in their calls for de-escalation, according to Phillip Karber, a central figure in Breedlove's network who was feeding information from Ukraine to the general.
"I think POTUS sees us as a threat that must be minimized,... ie do not get me into a war????" Breedlove wrote in one email, using the acronym for the president of the United States. How could Obama be persuaded to be more "engaged" in the conflict in Ukraine -- read: deliver weapons -- Breedlove had asked former Secretary of State Colin Powell. http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/breedlove-network-sought-weapons-deliveries-for-ukraine-a-1104837.htmlSo apparently the west was really trying to force the motherland into attacking Ukraine. I don't know if I should post that in the Ukraine thread ? To me it looks more like the higher ups of the west tried to de-escalate and only a few in the military wanted to escalate things further. I would certainly not say the west tried to force anybody into attacking anything.
Yes it is some kind of shady group of militaries that disagreed with what the western states were doing (not tough enough for them ?) ; my comment was just a joke ("the motherland") what matter is the core of the article.
Still very important piece to calm down the anti russian sentiments, we (the public opinion) are being played by small groups here and there, and this is quite frightening.
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It is probably just smoke , but it does bring into focus some issues the West will eventually have to reckon with.
For instance, our desire for democracy and self determination comes in direct conflict with our leaders' childlike obsession with preserving borders.
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On July 30 2016 22:02 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +Working with dubious sourcing, a group close to NATO's chief military commander Philip Breedlove sought to secure weapons deliveries for Ukraine, a trove of newly released emails revealed. The efforts served to intensify the conflict between the West and Russia.
In private, the general likes to wear leather. Philip Mark Breedlove, 60, is a well-known Harley-Davidson fan, and up until a few weeks ago, he also served as the commander of NATO and American troops in Europe. Even during his tenure as the military leader of the alliance, the American four-star general would trade his blue Air Force uniform for motorcycle gear and explore Europe's roads with his friends. [...]
Most of the 1,096 hacked emails date back to the dramatic 12 months of the Ukraine crisis after Russia annexed Crimea in March 2014. Thousands died in the skirmishes between Kiev's troops and Moscow-aligned separatists. More than 2 million civilians fled eastern Ukraine.
Russia supports the separatists with weapons, fighters and consultants. When people began calling for Washington to also massively intervene in 2015, the Ukraine conflict risked escalating into a war between East and West. [...]
The newly leaked emails reveal a clandestine network of Western agitators around the NATO military chief, whose presence fueled the conflict in Ukraine. Many allies found in Breedlove's alarmist public statements about alleged large Russian troop movements cause for concern early on. Earlier this year, the general was assuring the world that US European Command was "deterring Russia now and preparing to fight and win if necessary."
The emails document for the first time the questionable sources from whom Breedlove was getting his information. He had exaggerated Russian activities in eastern Ukraine with the overt goal of delivering weapons to Kiev.
The general and his likeminded colleagues perceived US President Barack Obama, the commander-in-chief of all American forces, as well as German Chancellor Angela Merkel as obstacles. Obama and Merkel were being "politically naive & counter-productive" in their calls for de-escalation, according to Phillip Karber, a central figure in Breedlove's network who was feeding information from Ukraine to the general.
"I think POTUS sees us as a threat that must be minimized,... ie do not get me into a war????" Breedlove wrote in one email, using the acronym for the president of the United States. How could Obama be persuaded to be more "engaged" in the conflict in Ukraine -- read: deliver weapons -- Breedlove had asked former Secretary of State Colin Powell. http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/breedlove-network-sought-weapons-deliveries-for-ukraine-a-1104837.htmlSo apparently the west was really trying to force the motherland into attacking Ukraine. I don't know if I should post that in the Ukraine thread ?
There hasn't been a Ukraine thread for over two years.
Also, there is nothing surprising posted here, nor anything particularly conclusive. Breedlove was a pretty well-acknowledged warhawk.
Edit: speaking of which, which leak is this part of? We've had so many email leaks lately that I'm losing track.
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On July 30 2016 22:02 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +Working with dubious sourcing, a group close to NATO's chief military commander Philip Breedlove sought to secure weapons deliveries for Ukraine, a trove of newly released emails revealed. The efforts served to intensify the conflict between the West and Russia.
In private, the general likes to wear leather. Philip Mark Breedlove, 60, is a well-known Harley-Davidson fan, and up until a few weeks ago, he also served as the commander of NATO and American troops in Europe. Even during his tenure as the military leader of the alliance, the American four-star general would trade his blue Air Force uniform for motorcycle gear and explore Europe's roads with his friends. [...]
Most of the 1,096 hacked emails date back to the dramatic 12 months of the Ukraine crisis after Russia annexed Crimea in March 2014. Thousands died in the skirmishes between Kiev's troops and Moscow-aligned separatists. More than 2 million civilians fled eastern Ukraine.
Russia supports the separatists with weapons, fighters and consultants. When people began calling for Washington to also massively intervene in 2015, the Ukraine conflict risked escalating into a war between East and West. [...]
The newly leaked emails reveal a clandestine network of Western agitators around the NATO military chief, whose presence fueled the conflict in Ukraine. Many allies found in Breedlove's alarmist public statements about alleged large Russian troop movements cause for concern early on. Earlier this year, the general was assuring the world that US European Command was "deterring Russia now and preparing to fight and win if necessary."
The emails document for the first time the questionable sources from whom Breedlove was getting his information. He had exaggerated Russian activities in eastern Ukraine with the overt goal of delivering weapons to Kiev.
The general and his likeminded colleagues perceived US President Barack Obama, the commander-in-chief of all American forces, as well as German Chancellor Angela Merkel as obstacles. Obama and Merkel were being "politically naive & counter-productive" in their calls for de-escalation, according to Phillip Karber, a central figure in Breedlove's network who was feeding information from Ukraine to the general.
"I think POTUS sees us as a threat that must be minimized,... ie do not get me into a war????" Breedlove wrote in one email, using the acronym for the president of the United States. How could Obama be persuaded to be more "engaged" in the conflict in Ukraine -- read: deliver weapons -- Breedlove had asked former Secretary of State Colin Powell. http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/breedlove-network-sought-weapons-deliveries-for-ukraine-a-1104837.htmlSo apparently the west was really trying to force the motherland into attacking Ukraine. I don't know if I should post that in the Ukraine thread ?
So some general exaggerated Russian activities in eastern Ukraine with the overt goal of delivering weapons to Kiev a year after Russia had already invade Ukraine. This means that Russia was being forced to invade Ukraine. A. Year. After. They. Have. Already. Invaded. Ukraine.
I'm not even going to bother with the "forced" part. Did you stop to read what you have written? That what you wrote bears no relation to your own source?
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i think you failed more at reading. the e-mails are from march 2014 into 2015.
the invasion was when separatists took over eastern Ukraine; the Crimea was more like a conquest.
One name that kept popping up was Phillip Karber, an adjunct assistant professor at Georgetown University in Washington DC and president of the Potomac Foundation, a conservative think tank founded by the former defense contractor BDM. By its own account, the foundation has helped eastern European countries prepare their accession into NATO. Now the Ukrainian parliament and the government in Kiev were asking Karber for help. looks like it's the defense department(on behalf of) lobbying.
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On July 31 2016 04:08 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2016 22:02 WhiteDog wrote:Working with dubious sourcing, a group close to NATO's chief military commander Philip Breedlove sought to secure weapons deliveries for Ukraine, a trove of newly released emails revealed. The efforts served to intensify the conflict between the West and Russia.
In private, the general likes to wear leather. Philip Mark Breedlove, 60, is a well-known Harley-Davidson fan, and up until a few weeks ago, he also served as the commander of NATO and American troops in Europe. Even during his tenure as the military leader of the alliance, the American four-star general would trade his blue Air Force uniform for motorcycle gear and explore Europe's roads with his friends. [...]
Most of the 1,096 hacked emails date back to the dramatic 12 months of the Ukraine crisis after Russia annexed Crimea in March 2014. Thousands died in the skirmishes between Kiev's troops and Moscow-aligned separatists. More than 2 million civilians fled eastern Ukraine.
Russia supports the separatists with weapons, fighters and consultants. When people began calling for Washington to also massively intervene in 2015, the Ukraine conflict risked escalating into a war between East and West. [...]
The newly leaked emails reveal a clandestine network of Western agitators around the NATO military chief, whose presence fueled the conflict in Ukraine. Many allies found in Breedlove's alarmist public statements about alleged large Russian troop movements cause for concern early on. Earlier this year, the general was assuring the world that US European Command was "deterring Russia now and preparing to fight and win if necessary."
The emails document for the first time the questionable sources from whom Breedlove was getting his information. He had exaggerated Russian activities in eastern Ukraine with the overt goal of delivering weapons to Kiev.
The general and his likeminded colleagues perceived US President Barack Obama, the commander-in-chief of all American forces, as well as German Chancellor Angela Merkel as obstacles. Obama and Merkel were being "politically naive & counter-productive" in their calls for de-escalation, according to Phillip Karber, a central figure in Breedlove's network who was feeding information from Ukraine to the general.
"I think POTUS sees us as a threat that must be minimized,... ie do not get me into a war????" Breedlove wrote in one email, using the acronym for the president of the United States. How could Obama be persuaded to be more "engaged" in the conflict in Ukraine -- read: deliver weapons -- Breedlove had asked former Secretary of State Colin Powell. http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/breedlove-network-sought-weapons-deliveries-for-ukraine-a-1104837.htmlSo apparently the west was really trying to force the motherland into attacking Ukraine. I don't know if I should post that in the Ukraine thread ? So some general exaggerated Russian activities in eastern Ukraine with the overt goal of delivering weapons to Kiev a year after Russia had already invade Ukraine. This means that Russia was being forced to invade Ukraine. A. Year. After. They. Have. Already. Invaded. Ukraine. I'm not even going to bother with the "forced" part. Did you stop to read what you have written? That what you wrote bears no relation to your own source?
I wrote that like two posts before you :
Yes it is some kind of shady group of militaries that disagreed with what the western states were doing (not tough enough for them ?) ; my comment was just a joke ("the motherland") what matter is the core of the article.
Still very important piece to calm down the anti russian sentiments, we (the public opinion) are being played by small groups here and there, and this is quite frightening.
Also, reading.
On July 31 2016 02:08 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2016 22:02 WhiteDog wrote:Working with dubious sourcing, a group close to NATO's chief military commander Philip Breedlove sought to secure weapons deliveries for Ukraine, a trove of newly released emails revealed. The efforts served to intensify the conflict between the West and Russia.
In private, the general likes to wear leather. Philip Mark Breedlove, 60, is a well-known Harley-Davidson fan, and up until a few weeks ago, he also served as the commander of NATO and American troops in Europe. Even during his tenure as the military leader of the alliance, the American four-star general would trade his blue Air Force uniform for motorcycle gear and explore Europe's roads with his friends. [...]
Most of the 1,096 hacked emails date back to the dramatic 12 months of the Ukraine crisis after Russia annexed Crimea in March 2014. Thousands died in the skirmishes between Kiev's troops and Moscow-aligned separatists. More than 2 million civilians fled eastern Ukraine.
Russia supports the separatists with weapons, fighters and consultants. When people began calling for Washington to also massively intervene in 2015, the Ukraine conflict risked escalating into a war between East and West. [...]
The newly leaked emails reveal a clandestine network of Western agitators around the NATO military chief, whose presence fueled the conflict in Ukraine. Many allies found in Breedlove's alarmist public statements about alleged large Russian troop movements cause for concern early on. Earlier this year, the general was assuring the world that US European Command was "deterring Russia now and preparing to fight and win if necessary."
The emails document for the first time the questionable sources from whom Breedlove was getting his information. He had exaggerated Russian activities in eastern Ukraine with the overt goal of delivering weapons to Kiev.
The general and his likeminded colleagues perceived US President Barack Obama, the commander-in-chief of all American forces, as well as German Chancellor Angela Merkel as obstacles. Obama and Merkel were being "politically naive & counter-productive" in their calls for de-escalation, according to Phillip Karber, a central figure in Breedlove's network who was feeding information from Ukraine to the general.
"I think POTUS sees us as a threat that must be minimized,... ie do not get me into a war????" Breedlove wrote in one email, using the acronym for the president of the United States. How could Obama be persuaded to be more "engaged" in the conflict in Ukraine -- read: deliver weapons -- Breedlove had asked former Secretary of State Colin Powell. http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/breedlove-network-sought-weapons-deliveries-for-ukraine-a-1104837.htmlSo apparently the west was really trying to force the motherland into attacking Ukraine. I don't know if I should post that in the Ukraine thread ? There hasn't been a Ukraine thread for over two years. Also, there is nothing surprising posted here, nor anything particularly conclusive. Breedlove was a pretty well-acknowledged warhawk. Edit: speaking of which, which leak is this part of? We've had so many email leaks lately that I'm losing track.
It's not surprising for you Legalord, because you have a balanced stance. Many in this forum still believe the big bad wolf is Russia, and "the west" (like we are unified in anything lawlz) is the angel that only want to promote peace and democracy. What trouble me more than anything in this is that some unknown lobbyists and militaries can go against the will of both Merkel and Obama and exagerate/aggravate things in order to push them in a more proactive stance. Such games could very well end in a war at one point or another - a war that nobody wants - and having just a little scepticism could very well prevent that.
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Yes it is some kind of shady group of militaries that disagreed with what the western states were doing (not tough enough for them ?) ; my comment was just a joke ("the motherland") what matter is the core of the article.
Still very important piece to calm down the anti russian sentiments, we (the public opinion) are being played by small groups here and there, and this is quite frightening.
Why would that possibly calm down anti-Russian sentiment? Even if you look at it in the most forgiving light, Russia is just repeating the behavior of America of the last 15 years, which was terrible and indefensible and blah blah blah, but now that Russia is doing it there must be excuses made. Hmmm...
On July 31 2016 02:03 cLutZ wrote:
It is probably just smoke , but it does bring into focus some issues the West will eventually have to reckon with.
For instance, our desire for democracy and self determination comes in direct conflict with our leaders' childlike obsession with preserving borders.
Self determination can in no way come into conflict with a desire to preserve borders. Self determination is all about borders really.
Democracy has always coexisted with borders so dunno where they come into conflict either.
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"Russia had already invaded Ukraine annexed Crimea when Breedlove made those statements."
To make it clear, nobody forced Russia to do anything. It was a joke.
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On July 31 2016 06:31 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +Yes it is some kind of shady group of militaries that disagreed with what the western states were doing (not tough enough for them ?) ; my comment was just a joke ("the motherland") what matter is the core of the article.
Still very important piece to calm down the anti russian sentiments, we (the public opinion) are being played by small groups here and there, and this is quite frightening. Why would that possibly calm down anti-Russian sentiment? Even if you look at it in the most forgiving light, Russia is just repeating the behavior of America of the last 15 years, which was terrible and indefensible and blah blah blah, but now that Russia is doing it there must be excuses made. Hmmm... Show nested quote +On July 31 2016 02:03 cLutZ wrote:
It is probably just smoke , but it does bring into focus some issues the West will eventually have to reckon with.
For instance, our desire for democracy and self determination comes in direct conflict with our leaders' childlike obsession with preserving borders. Self determination can in no way come into conflict with a desire to preserve borders. Self determination is all about borders really. Democracy has always coexisted with borders so dunno where they come into conflict either.
It comes into conflict because a lot of top politicians seem (at least publicly) intent on maintaining the same borders that have existed since [insert arbitrary post WWII time here]. Which, for places like Iraq, Palestine, Eastern Europe, etc often comes into direct conflict with self determination of peoples.
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It comes into conflict because a lot of top politicians seem (at least publicly) intent on maintaining the same borders that have existed since [insert arbitrary post WWII time here]. Which, for places like Iraq, Palestine, Eastern Europe, etc often comes into direct conflict with self determination of peoples.
Breaking up Iraq is a Western and Kurdish vision, not nd that's only because Iraq as currently constituted is too annoying for some Westerners, they think they can run things easiethat of the Arabs. Or the Persians either. There aren't any other Middle Eastern countries that anyone is talking about breaking up because the borders don't fit the people. Not Egypt, not Syria, not Kuwait, not Saudi Arabia, not any of them. Just Iraq ar if Iraq were split up. It's just another verse to the same old song of Western intervention.
There was no serious political movement for Russian-speakers' self-determination Ukraine until Russian soldiers invaded. There were fringe groups that did not have any support. Then Russia's Ukrainian puppet in Kiev gets ousted and suddenly the undeniable urge to be reunited with Mother Russia explodes into being like a supernova in Crimea and east Ukraine? Please.
There are a few self-determination squabbles in the Caucasus which mean basically nothing to nobody outside the Caucasus. Those borders weren't set by Western Europeans or Americans anyway.
Self-determination is an issue in Palestine only in that the vision of Palestinian self-determination includes the genocide or ethnic cleansing of the Jews.
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On July 31 2016 06:43 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2016 06:37 WhiteDog wrote:
"Russia had already invaded Ukraine annexed Crimea when Breedlove made those statements." Russia invaded the Crimea.
And annexed it in march 2014. The mails are about what came after, specifically in eastern Ukraine.
Why would that possibly calm down anti-Russian sentiment? Even if you look at it in the most forgiving light, Russia is just repeating the behavior of America of the last 15 years, which was terrible and indefensible and blah blah blah, but now that Russia is doing it there must be excuses made. Hmmm...
I don't understand what is the behavior of America that was so bad in the last 15 years ? Talking about Iraq ? It's not exactly the same thing but well I don't see the US as a big bad wolf either. Russia is a player, that's it. The problem - and that's what is important with those emails to me - is that we don't know what is happening in the background and that, obviously, some people try to play with us and our officials for what ? Economical reasons ?
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EPT
