EPTUK Politics Mega-thread - Page 488
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Banaora
Germany234 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22084 Posts
The situation is clear from the 308-312 vote. A deal that satisfies 311 people to beat the apparent large group that is satisfied with a no-deal Brexit does not exist. (and the EU has said time and time again that there will be no different deal that what is already on the table). If the UK wants to avoid a hard Brexit the only choice left is to strait up cancel article 50 and render the last 2 years a complete farce that pissed away any good will the UK had within the EU. | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22084 Posts
On March 14 2019 05:08 Zaros wrote: waste of breath when the EU has no interest in extending when there is no possible solution in sight (and any claim of it existing is dead after todays vote).Nigel Farage has announced he is lobbying European Governments to veto any extension request possibly Italy is a big target for him. It will get voted down in the EU parliament without his lobbying. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8232 Posts
On March 14 2019 05:11 Gorsameth wrote: waste of breath when the EU has no interest in extending when there is no possible solution in sight (and any claim of it existing is dead after todays vote). It will get voted down in the EU parliament without his lobbying. Kinda pointless to vote no when the Uk can just go "Alright then, we'll cancel Brexit then..for another year and then start the whole process again", which they are entirely allowed to do. | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22084 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18211 Posts
On March 14 2019 04:51 Banaora wrote: Motion passes as amended by spelman 321 - 278 so no deal voted out. What does this even mean. If they don't agree to the EU deal (and they voted that down), then no-deal is happening. They need to vote FOR something to avoid no-deal Brexit... so this is a completely useless motion. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22084 Posts
On March 14 2019 06:01 Acrofales wrote: In theory it could mean that they need to withdraw article 50 if a hard Brexit were to happen.What does this even mean. If they don't agree to the EU deal (and they voted that down), then no-deal is happening. They need to vote FOR something to avoid no-deal Brexit... so this is a completely useless motion. Its the only way Britain has of avoiding leaving that they have full control over. | ||
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
On March 14 2019 06:01 Acrofales wrote: What does this even mean. If they don't agree to the EU deal (and they voted that down), then no-deal is happening. They need to vote FOR something to avoid no-deal Brexit... so this is a completely useless motion. It scraps one option. So now they either need to accept a deal real fast, find an extension somehow, or cancel article 50. Saw a conservative MP on BBC saying that he now sees himself forced to vote for the (bad in his eyes) deal or face no brexit at all, because going out without a deal is off the table politically. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11743 Posts
On March 14 2019 05:14 Excludos wrote: Kinda pointless to vote no when the Uk can just go "Alright then, we'll cancel Brexit then..for another year and then start the whole process again", which they are entirely allowed to do. I find it to be weird to lobby foreign governments to deny something that your government asks for. That sounds like something that should ideally be solved internally. Also, there is a difference between extending and cancelling. While it might technically be possible to indefinitely cancel and restart the brexit process, i am quite confident that once that starts happening, a) the chances of the UK getting deal that they would be happy with decline even more rapidly, because i doubt that the EU folks would be very happy with the UK trying to obviously fool them, and b) some legal reason that that is not possible would quickly manifest in some way or other, due to the same reason. I also think that once article 50 is cancelled, the motivation to start this whole bullshit again might be not that high. It has become clear at this point that the brexit that was sold to the population in britain is not manifesting, and it should be obvious that it won't happen if you just give it more time. The main thing that happened during the two years is that britain has proven that it can not find a majority for any of the possibilities, is utterly confused by this, and hopes that the problem will solve itself via to everyone outside of britain realizing that the UK is utterly totally amazing and that they really should give them anything they want at the last minute. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
I can understand that politicians over here would probably be happy about that. But does anyone actually want that? I can't imagine having the UK be part of the decision process of the EU is something anyone wants to have in the first place. Sure, we can all talk about having a pipe dream about how brexit-cancel or a temporary delay that turns into brexit-cancel come next election would solve issues because the UK stays in the EU but it's not like that changes the mind of the people in the UK. If anything I only see it getting worse. I don't think we'd be done with it at all and being done with it is what I want and I assume most people look at it the same way. So letting them delay past june (not saying it's happening, just tossing it out) seems like an incredibly stupid idea to me. In that sense, I'm with Nigel Farage on this one. Obviously not the method because that seems shady as fuck but yeah, please no delay for no reason dragging this out for years to come. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
I imagine that, things will be rather awkward in the EU as UK still has the usual mechanisms of power in the EU as if they never tried to leave. UK influence will be greatly lessened I am sure though. In the long term...as long as the cycle isn't repeated, as more elderly die off, as more young enter voting age, as memories fade, it'll just be remembered as a period when the politicans of UK decided to hold a gun to its UK as a threat to the EU in order to secure favourable political concessions. That is if brexit get cancelled. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9768 Posts
We don't what we want But we know that we don't want any of the things we wanted 2 years ago And we don't want to not have those things either So just give us that and shut up. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
It's pretty telling when the attorney general has to remind you that the UK isn't some kind of shitshow where laws and integrity are just buzzwords. "Technically we could just say "yeah sure" and then do however we please whenever we feel like it - what they gon do about it" is probably the dumbest thing a politician could say to a person with even a shred of decency. And he didn't just do it once, he tried on multiple occasions to get confirmation in regards to "the EU not able to do anything if the UK simply decides that whatever is agreed upon isn't good enough and goes ahead to break the treaty". That's your future. It's not that "influence" of the UK in the EU has declined, the UK has shown that if push comes to shove, the government isn't functioning and is even humouring the thought of accepting a treaty and then breaking it to get the upper hand. Funniest part was him making clear that this all doesn't matter since it's not not legally binding, and then goes ahead to argue that the 17.4 million (whoever that would be) can't be betrayed. Leaving out that this obviously also wasn't legally binding (and that it's not 17.4 million anymore). But that's what "the people" apparently respond to. Opportunistic crooks, headlines that usually are written with a few words in all caps, chestbeating over accomplishments which usually lie 60-500 years ago, and not to forget: simple solutions to problems that are so mindbogglingly complicated that even people doing it professionally are just shrugging helplessly. Simpletons. | ||
KwarK
United States43557 Posts
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m4ini
4215 Posts
I thought that was a very apt description of the House yesterday. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1kjuHyWkAIH2jZ.jpg:large) | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4383 Posts
Like i said before the EU cannot allow the UK to actually leave because the EU exports far more to the UK than vice versa so any type of tough bargain would hurt the EU.Any type of favourable economic exit deal makes leaving more viable for other EU nations so they can't have that either.With Germany barely avoiding recession a couple weeks back - last 1/4 GDP print 0.0 with a negative the quarter before.Italy already back in recession now of course. So it's like Lisbon Treaty in Ireland a decade ago.Keep voting until you give the EU the outcome they want. Riots will start up soon. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9768 Posts
On March 14 2019 18:36 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: They want a second referendum. Like i said before the EU cannot allow the UK to actually leave because the EU exports far more to the UK than vice versa so any type of tough bargain would hurt the EU.Any type of favourable economic exit deal makes leaving more viable for other EU nations so they can't have that either.With Germany barely avoiding recession a couple weeks back - last 1/4 GDP print 0.0 with a negative the quarter before.Italy already back in recession now of course. So it's like Lisbon Treaty in Ireland a decade ago.Keep voting until you give the EU the outcome they want. Riots will start up soon. What are you even talking about? The EU was absolutely ready to let the UK leave. The EU are still pushing for UK politicians to accept the deal they agreed with May. Its Parliament that are causing the problems. Collectively they are acting like a 4 year old kid and just shouting 'no!' at everything you offer them. The problem here is that Brexit was founded on a delusion and that delusion is being tested now as we get closer to the date. There are no circumstances in which anyone gets the Brexit they want except the EU, and that was always the case. | ||
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