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Bobby Kotick Gets a lot of stock bonus - Page 10

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HeatEXTEND
Profile Joined October 2012
Netherlands836 Posts
April 28 2013 14:46 GMT
#181
On April 28 2013 14:52 screamingpalm wrote:
So Kickstarters FTW then?


This without a doubt. It's the saving grace for keeping games from becoming nothing but pandering, shiny trinkets for toddlers.
Blazzard, Actevussian, Ubehsaft, Bettasde I'm looking at you....
knuckle
Nachtwind
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany1130 Posts
April 28 2013 14:47 GMT
#182
And the CEO of EA has steped down tz tz

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielnyegriffiths/2013/03/18/john-riccitiello-steps-down-as-ea-ceo/
invisible tetris level master
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-28 15:11:10
April 28 2013 14:48 GMT
#183
On April 28 2013 16:39 BirdKiller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2013 15:48 sluggaslamoo wrote:
On April 28 2013 15:30 BirdKiller wrote:
On April 28 2013 14:25 wUndertUnge wrote:
http://kotaku.com/activisions-boss-got-an-800-raise-and-a-watchdog-doe-483773785

"Activision has a lot of money. Bobby Kotick has fat stacks, too. The publisher's CEO saw his total cash-and-prizes compensation jump from $8.1 million in 2011 to $64.9 million in 2012, reports Bloomberg, a figure that would make him the second-highest paid CEO among publicly traded U.S. companies.


Kotick is due for another $16 million if the company hits performance targets, too. The bulk of his compensation came in the form of stock awards valued at $55.9 million. (Though they vest over the next five years, Activision is required to report them all at once, now.) The cash salary he got was roughly the same as always, $8.33 million."

How about reinvesting some of that money back into the company instead of feeding that fat double-chin of his? Sorry, but this kind of thing makes me so angry. Rarely does anyone actually deserve to be making this kind of money, not to mention the fact that no one could spend this much money in one lifetime. Has Kotick actually made any innovations, or did he just figure out how to turn it into a money machine?

It makes me sad that Blizzard got into bed with these guys.


I'm going to jump in here due to the gross inaccuracies and exaggerations you've put out. First off, Blizzard Activision has done extremely well during its last quarter, generating about $1.8 billion with a profit of about $350 million. Overall in 2012, the company generated about $5 billion (memory is fuzzy) with over $1 billion in profits for the year. Compare this with other publishers like EA and the video game industry overall, the publisher has been ahead of the curve in the industry. To shareholders point of view, this man absolutely deserves a raise, but it wasn't in form of cold hard cash, it was in the form of additional stocks, not directly from profits. This is absolutely not a 800% raise, nor is it a raise at all. Instead, he simply has more stake/ownership into the company now.

In most cases, one would want to hold onto stocks for few years than to sell them in order to raise cash for reinvestment/capital. It's better to simply use the profits they have or take out a loan from a bank which the company has been doing.

Now, you ask "how about reinvesting some of that money back into the company", and the company has indeed been doing that last year. Of the $1 billion profits from 2012, about $500 million went to shareholders, and most or rest of the $500 million went back into the company; Kotick's additional shares are not part of this.

IMO, Kotick has made the company a money making machine, and from that viewpoint, deserves the compensation.


I agree that the 800% raise title is quite sensationalist and not actually true.

I think you are missing the point though. A games developer should not be solely looking at the bottom line, if it was all about the money, why is Blizzard even in the gaming industry at all?

Second of all. Either the shares are invested back in the company, in which case, the company still loses the 55 million while Kotick earns 55 million. Or the shares are sold to the public, in which case, more money will have to be paid to shareholders in the longterm, and Kotick still earns a substantial amount of money which he doesn't even need.

Either way its 55 million the company could have used to invest back into the company. There is no such thing as free money.


Even though a game company should focus on making games, the company is owned by thousands of people, groups, and institutions of diverse profile with a common goal: increase the value of the company. They effectively own the company, and therefore, the company's ultimate goal is to increase the value of the company. Creating video games is a means to this as it should.

I'm not understanding the logic of:

"shares being invested back into company" = "company still loses $55 million" + "Kotick earns $55 million"

In form of share buybacks, the shares are erased, reducing the number of stocks while maintaining the value of the company, and therefore increasing the value of the remaining stocks. The increase in value of stocks doesn't all go to Kotick, it gets distributed evenly among all the shareholders. Based on the current stats of Activision stocks, Kotick would only earn at most $510,000 more if Activision buybacks $55 million worth of shares.

"shares being sold to the public in which case more money will have to be paid to shareholders in the longterm"

In form of Activision owning at least $55 million worth of shares and selling them to the market in order to raise capital. That is financially a stupid decision that can only be seen as an act of desperation. There are far better ways to raise cash for capital, primarily through bonds and loans. Not only that, but it also reduces the value of the shares which goes against shareholder's interests. Furthermore, Activision won't being paying substantially more to shareholders, only about $684,000 more per year in form of dividends, that's not bad from cashing in $55 million, although it's still a retarded move.

There is no such thing as free money that's true. However, this $55 million came from something the company shouldn't or can't use to reinvest along with money from interested buyers, not from the company's cash or profits.

I've read most of the posts in this thread and from what I understand Kotick gained free shares. The shares are not a part of Activision's reserves so giving them to Kotick neither hurts nor helps the Company.

But where are those shares coming from? So far I've heard that they just dilute the value of shares of other shareholders.
And from you I'm not sure what I'm hearing. How would Kotick make $510,000 if Activision bought all his $55 million in shares 5 years from now?

On topic: $55 million is a lot. If we assume that a good developer costs $100,000 if you want to keep them for a year, and then you double that for health care, then that's 200,000 per employee for a year. You could hire 250 developers for a year to work on any product you wanted (and have $5mil left over).. An educational tool. A next gen game. Anything, but the chances of that game catching on with so little invested in marketing against the big brand names is small. Kotick happens to work at a Company that is doing well in the short term. Activision, by continuing to release extensions to its successful brands, can make more guaranteed money.

$55 mil could be used on just improving the lives of the current developers too. It's a lot of money.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
April 28 2013 15:00 GMT
#184
After reading most of this thread, I think people here don't get the economics of this. He got a vast majority of his money through his own smart business decisions, the rest of his salary is of course enormous because he calls the shots at the top level of an enormous gaming industry leader when it comes to several genre's sales. This is not capitalism at its worst by any stretch. The title is sensationalist, and this move was an enormous risk on his own part, had he not built the company up to its bloodsucking, shit game producing, mass money making self, he would have lost an enormous amount of money. This isn't him fucking over his company and siphoning off money, this is him making money while making money, which any wealthy person knows is a great way to increase income. If you can make money by investing or devesting in yourself while you do your job, why not do it?
User was warned for too many mimes.
TheFish7
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States2824 Posts
April 28 2013 15:04 GMT
#185
Unfortunatley maximize shareholder value does not necessarily mean maximize excellence of products sold. I don't think (most of) the dissenters in this thread would argue that capitalism is bad, only that the methods Activision is using to maximize said shareholder value do not mean higher quality games for us hardcore fans.
~ ~ <°)))><~ ~ ~
Holy_AT
Profile Joined July 2010
Austria978 Posts
April 28 2013 15:06 GMT
#186
On April 29 2013 00:00 docvoc wrote:
After reading most of this thread, I think people here don't get the economics of this. He got a vast majority of his money through his own smart business decisions, the rest of his salary is of course enormous because he calls the shots at the top level of an enormous gaming industry leader when it comes to several genre's sales. This is not capitalism at its worst by any stretch. The title is sensationalist, and this move was an enormous risk on his own part, had he not built the company up to its bloodsucking, shit game producing, mass money making self, he would have lost an enormous amount of money. This isn't him fucking over his company and siphoning off money, this is him making money while making money, which any wealthy person knows is a great way to increase income. If you can make money by investing or devesting in yourself while you do your job, why not do it?


He does nothing productive, so he does not deserve that much money ...
Calling the big shots ? I laugh at that, big shots are beeing called by analysts and other people he is just the dumb figure head who steals all the credit but does nothing to deserve it.
I'd sooner see the game developers getting a raise then this person.
WTFZerg
Profile Joined February 2011
United States704 Posts
April 28 2013 15:20 GMT
#187
On April 29 2013 00:06 Holy_AT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2013 00:00 docvoc wrote:
After reading most of this thread, I think people here don't get the economics of this. He got a vast majority of his money through his own smart business decisions, the rest of his salary is of course enormous because he calls the shots at the top level of an enormous gaming industry leader when it comes to several genre's sales. This is not capitalism at its worst by any stretch. The title is sensationalist, and this move was an enormous risk on his own part, had he not built the company up to its bloodsucking, shit game producing, mass money making self, he would have lost an enormous amount of money. This isn't him fucking over his company and siphoning off money, this is him making money while making money, which any wealthy person knows is a great way to increase income. If you can make money by investing or devesting in yourself while you do your job, why not do it?


He does nothing productive, so he does not deserve that much money ...
Calling the big shots ? I laugh at that, big shots are beeing called by analysts and other people he is just the dumb figure head who steals all the credit but does nothing to deserve it.
I'd sooner see the game developers getting a raise then this person.


If the board is willing to pay him however much in vetted stock options, he deserves to make that much money.

Nobody "deserves" to make money. You earn the money people are willing to pay you for your services.
Might makes right.
bellum gerere
Profile Joined February 2013
13 Posts
April 28 2013 15:22 GMT
#188
--- Nuked ---
Loanshark
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
China3094 Posts
April 28 2013 15:22 GMT
#189
On April 29 2013 00:06 Holy_AT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2013 00:00 docvoc wrote:
After reading most of this thread, I think people here don't get the economics of this. He got a vast majority of his money through his own smart business decisions, the rest of his salary is of course enormous because he calls the shots at the top level of an enormous gaming industry leader when it comes to several genre's sales. This is not capitalism at its worst by any stretch. The title is sensationalist, and this move was an enormous risk on his own part, had he not built the company up to its bloodsucking, shit game producing, mass money making self, he would have lost an enormous amount of money. This isn't him fucking over his company and siphoning off money, this is him making money while making money, which any wealthy person knows is a great way to increase income. If you can make money by investing or devesting in yourself while you do your job, why not do it?


He does nothing productive, so he does not deserve that much money ...
Calling the big shots ? I laugh at that, big shots are beeing called by analysts and other people he is just the dumb figure head who steals all the credit but does nothing to deserve it.
I'd sooner see the game developers getting a raise then this person.


Like it or not he is the CEO that is presiding over all these operations, so I don't really see how you can say that he doesn't "call the big shots". True, he doesn't actually make anything like the developers, but you can make that argument for virtually every CEO. Paul Otellini does not design chips for Intel. Steve Ballmer does not design Microsoft's tablets and operating system. If you think CEOs in general are being paid too generously, then that's a different argument entirely.

And really, the question of how much money he "deserves" is not decided by us. Bobby Kotick is not paid for his ability to make good games. He's paid for his ability to make money for the company, and clearly he's done that. I hate Activision and I hate Bobby Kotick, but this is how things work. If Activision/Blizzard is paying Kotick a shit ton of money and he doesn't deliver, then they're just fucking themselves over and we should let them get on with it. I certainly wouldn't care if Activision went bankrupt. Just vote with your wallet and boycott Activision games (as I suspect many of you already do).
No dough, no go. And no mercy.
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11498 Posts
April 28 2013 15:26 GMT
#190
Sweet. Am I going to get better games as a result of this? Probably not and so I don't really care.

Not related to Bobby Kotick specifically, but these are some great thoughts by Shamus Young on AAA Gaming leadership
Like I said last week, the main reason EA is badly run isn't because the leaders are bad guys, come to ruin all our Christmas releases with their Day 1 DLC. It's not corporate greed, or that the company is "too big". The problem with EA is that it's an entertainment software company and the majority of the EA leadership doesn't have a background in software or entertainment. They are "money men" - people with a background in venture capital, management, and overseeing large established industries. Before EA, Riccitiello's job was running the Bakery Division of the Sara Lee corporation. This sort of industrial and financial oversight work is radically different from producing software in this young and rapidly changing new media. Basically, these men are out of their depth and out of their area of expertise. These guys don't work in software and don't play games, yet they're running a company that requires a keen understanding of both. They're trying to reach consumers and shape public opinion, but they don't have a firm grasp of gaming news or the culture that surrounds the hobby.

Oh, I'm sure they "play" games in the sense that they sample their own company products, but I seriously doubt any of them really go home and click away at Starcraft or Assassin's Creed late into the night. I admit this is speculation on my part, but really: Could someone who plays games and is immersed in the culture make the mistakes EA has? Ubisoft had a horrible time with their always-on DRM and eventually abandoned it. Blizzard generated a ton of negative press when the always-on requirement of Diablo III became problematic. Then EA repeated those mistakes, only more seriously and on a grander scale, even though they had recent events to inform their decision-making.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/10252-How-to-Fix-Electronic-Arts


Sure a company CAN pay whatever they want to their CEO and I guess that's a demonstration of what people are willing to pay. And one might even say they earned it because they made strategic decisions or some such. But for me as a gamer, am I going to get better games because of guys like Bobby? If not, then I can accept the 'why' of large pay raise, but I certainly don't have to like it. Nor do I have to think that it will in anyway increase my gaming experience.
Moderator"In Trump We Trust," says the Golden Goat of Mar a Lago. Have faith and believe! Trump moves in mysterious ways. Like the wind he blows where he pleases...
Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-28 15:29:44
April 28 2013 15:29 GMT
#191
On April 28 2013 23:46 StarStruck wrote:
I was looking at us as a whole. You and I are a minority when it comes to our spending habits when it comes to games. Even then, I'm guilty of buying unnecessary products like the CE of D3. -_-

Dot dot dot...
Well yeah I had forgotten about that. I'm a sap for having bought the CE of D3 too. High fives of shame =(. I did make just over a grand selling my stuff though
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
Bulkers
Profile Joined September 2010
Poland509 Posts
April 28 2013 15:30 GMT
#192
Bobby got a sinecure job, only 1 out of milions can get, and lets be honest all of us are angry at him because we envy him...
McBengt
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden1684 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-28 15:43:11
April 28 2013 15:42 GMT
#193
On April 29 2013 00:30 Bulkers wrote:
Bobby got a sinecure job, only 1 out of milions can get, and lets be honest all of us are angry at him because we envy him...


Some of us just dislike him because he is a horrible person. There are way richer people in the world than Bobby Kotick that I admire and look up to.
"My twelve year old will out-reason Bill Maher when it comes to understanding, you know, what, uh, how to logic work" - Rick Santorum
sixfour
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
England11061 Posts
April 28 2013 15:44 GMT
#194
in this topic, people don't understand how capitalism works
p: stats, horang2, free, jangbi z: soulkey, zero, shine, hydra t: leta, hiya, sea
NukeTheStars
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States277 Posts
April 28 2013 15:46 GMT
#195
I... I liked him in Moneyball. He played that role to benefit his Call of Duty Endowment charity for veterans and... sorry. Continue the bashing.
iSTime
Profile Joined November 2006
1579 Posts
April 28 2013 15:55 GMT
#196
If the CEO is significantly overpaid relative to his value, maybe you should short Activision's stock. Since it's so obvious that they're overpaying someone who provides little value, and underpaying the people who add real value to the company, it can't continue to outperform other companies for very long.

Unless, of course, you're not so confident and you're just talking out of your ass. Then don't short the stock.
www.infinityseven.net
Tarot
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada440 Posts
April 28 2013 16:01 GMT
#197
Kotick is just doing his job as a CEO, as are his investors, as are his investors' CEOs, and so on.
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-28 16:20:13
April 28 2013 16:18 GMT
#198
On April 29 2013 00:26 Falling wrote:
Sweet. Am I going to get better games as a result of this? Probably not and so I don't really care.

Not related to Bobby Kotick specifically, but these are some great thoughts by Shamus Young on AAA Gaming leadership
Show nested quote +
Like I said last week, the main reason EA is badly run isn't because the leaders are bad guys, come to ruin all our Christmas releases with their Day 1 DLC. It's not corporate greed, or that the company is "too big". The problem with EA is that it's an entertainment software company and the majority of the EA leadership doesn't have a background in software or entertainment. They are "money men" - people with a background in venture capital, management, and overseeing large established industries. Before EA, Riccitiello's job was running the Bakery Division of the Sara Lee corporation. This sort of industrial and financial oversight work is radically different from producing software in this young and rapidly changing new media. Basically, these men are out of their depth and out of their area of expertise. These guys don't work in software and don't play games, yet they're running a company that requires a keen understanding of both. They're trying to reach consumers and shape public opinion, but they don't have a firm grasp of gaming news or the culture that surrounds the hobby.

Oh, I'm sure they "play" games in the sense that they sample their own company products, but I seriously doubt any of them really go home and click away at Starcraft or Assassin's Creed late into the night. I admit this is speculation on my part, but really: Could someone who plays games and is immersed in the culture make the mistakes EA has? Ubisoft had a horrible time with their always-on DRM and eventually abandoned it. Blizzard generated a ton of negative press when the always-on requirement of Diablo III became problematic. Then EA repeated those mistakes, only more seriously and on a grander scale, even though they had recent events to inform their decision-making.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/10252-How-to-Fix-Electronic-Arts


Sure a company CAN pay whatever they want to their CEO and I guess that's a demonstration of what people are willing to pay. And one might even say they earned it because they made strategic decisions or some such. But for me as a gamer, am I going to get better games because of guys like Bobby? If not, then I can accept the 'why' of large pay raise, but I certainly don't have to like it. Nor do I have to think that it will in anyway increase my gaming experience.


I don't really buy that for most CEO positions though. Yes, it's a plus but CEOs do that sort of thing all the time. Anyway, I know several people who turned down such positions because they actually like having a grip/handle on the company affairs. Not to say you cannot be a hands-on CEO and that's one of the things I pointed out when that topic came up, but they turned that down. ~_~
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
April 28 2013 16:18 GMT
#199
On April 28 2013 22:23 blug wrote:
That is the problem with people these days, they are self entitled and feel as though Blizzard owe them something.


That is the exact opposite of the problem with people these days. You can call it self entitlement all you want, but in fact those people are only entitled to their opinions - and if their opinion is that Blizzard, Activision, EA, whoever delivered a trash product, then they have a perfectly valid right to voice it. In fact, it's in their best interest to do so (along with not actually buying the product).

The actual problem with people/consumers these days is that they are too lazy, too ignorant, or both.
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
April 28 2013 16:23 GMT
#200
On April 29 2013 01:18 Talin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2013 22:23 blug wrote:
That is the problem with people these days, they are self entitled and feel as though Blizzard owe them something.


That is the exact opposite of the problem with people these days. You can call it self entitlement all you want, but in fact those people are only entitled to their opinions - and if their opinion is that Blizzard, Activision, EA, whoever delivered a trash product, then they have a perfectly valid right to voice it. In fact, it's in their best interest to do so (along with not actually buying the product).

The actual problem with people/consumers these days is that they are too lazy, too ignorant, or both.


We also have the choice not to buy such products though, but the vast majority do. Look, you can be or call yourself a smart consumer all you want. You cannot stop the masses & eventually you'll find yourself guilty of buying something you don't really need or want. In some cases, you're going to think the product you just bought is garbage.
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