|
On July 31 2013 06:57 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 06:56 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:53 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 06:51 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:47 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 06:45 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:42 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:40 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:36 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:32 theodorus12 wrote:
[quote]
No, you can count on me to use the actual meaning and not one that while heavily pushed by some people, is still wrong.
[quote]
That's your opinion and I'm completely fine with it. Like I already said, I'm not the one going around telling people who they MUST see me and how not.
[quote]
I would obviously call them fat if they asked me if they are fat or not.....
I simply use the right word in the right context. There is no reason to say "lol you are fat", like there is no reason to say "lol you are a man". I will not go out of my way to insult anyone. But if the right context comes up, I will call them what they are... So basicly, you have no desire to hold down a job, like ever? Because this kind of honesty will get you fired for being an asshole. And god help you if you work with a person who is trans gender. I actually work part time for the same employer since my 2nd year in university. Maybe it's different where you live, but here honesty is actually something valued. Nah, I'm pretty sure you just don't act like this in public and only talk about this stuff on the internet. If faced with the prospect of being fired for calling someone by the gender you KNEW to be correct, you would just cave, call them what they wanted and keep your job. You are wrong. But still funny how this is what you have to resort to, it's a bit a funnier version of "lol you wouldn't say that to my face etc...." you said you would call people who identified as women "he" in the work place to hold on to what you know as correct and true and that this is valued at your company. im pretty sure calling you out on it isn't resorting to something so much as pointing out that you're probably lying. And yes, that is what I would do, call them what they are. Because everything else is lying. Calling me out on it is pointless since he can't prove it's not true, just like the " you woudn't say that to my face"... well he was just letting you know that this isn't appropriate anymore and you should catch up to modern humans So in your world, lying, just not to hurt the feelings of someone is appropriate? Good to know that you are the authority on what defines a "modern human". :D best strawman yet. i think you would be lying by calling someone that identifies as a woman a he.
Please just stop, it makes no sense at all.
So would it also be lying to call a fat person that identifies as skinny, fat?
|
On July 31 2013 06:53 Reason wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 06:38 Klondikebar wrote:On July 31 2013 06:37 Reason wrote:On July 31 2013 06:25 Klondikebar wrote:On July 31 2013 06:18 Reason wrote:On July 31 2013 06:08 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:04 Shodaa wrote:On July 31 2013 06:00 maybenexttime wrote:On July 31 2013 05:41 Reason wrote:On July 31 2013 05:38 theodorus12 wrote:
[quote]
So you really think, I should call someone a women, only because he feels like one but still has a penis?
[quote]
You just defined that yourself? Because actually women is defined as a female human and men as a male human... No he didn't just define that himself. Do some reading before you start trying to tell people they are wrong when they're obviously more informed on the topic than you are. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_gender_distinctionSex is annotated as different from gender in the Oxford English Dictionary where it says sex "tends now to refer to biological differences, while . . . [gender] often refers to cultural or social ones.A working definition in use by the World Health Organization (WHO) for its work is that "'sex refers to the biological and physiological characteristics that define men and women" and that "'male' and 'female' are sex categories". Or you can simply choose not to accept the terminology the LGBT/feminist ideologists lobby for. Those definitions are not in any way objective, "gender studies" is not a scientific discipline, it's ideology being forced onto universities. So why don't you accept it anyway ? Is it so hard to not be an asshole and not insult trans people and gender variant people ? So calling people what they are and not what they feel like is being an asshole? Language evolves over time. Nowadays sex refers to biologically male or female and gender refers to gender identification. Since their gender identification is not dependent upon biological sex, telling someone they are not a particular gender when they identify with being that particular gender makes you an asshole, yes. On July 31 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On July 31 2013 06:06 Reason wrote:On July 31 2013 06:03 Klondikebar wrote:On July 31 2013 06:02 Reason wrote:On July 31 2013 05:51 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
If the women are identical then you can't claim preference. Preference isn't academic. If you can't tell a difference between the two unless one tells you she's trans...then your preferences aren't a play, your ill conceived notions of what trans means are at play. Firstly, tell me what my notions of the meaning of trans are. Secondly, explain how they are ill conceived. Thirdly, explain how my sexual preferences are somehow independent from these notions. Alternatively you could just accept that my sexual preferences include a preference for non trans people whether that's distinguishable in your mind or not, it is in mine. Please manage to do this before you come ever closer to outright insulting me for my sexual preferences in a thread dedicated to the discussion of LGBT rights if you haven't already crossed that line. Preference isn't academic? Do you think I'm an animal? Preference is an affinity for one characteristic over another. If the women are identical, they have no different characteristics. Making sense? pref·er·ence /ˈpref(ə)rəns/ Noun A greater liking for one alternative over another or others. A thing preferred. I prefer the non trans woman to the alternative of the trans woman. Making fucking sense? Trans isn't a characteristic. It's not a thing. It just indicates a transition from one set of characteristics to another. It has absolutely no descriptive power about the current person standing in front of you. You seem to be struggling with basic definitions here. Struggling with basic definitions? This is becoming ridiculous. If presented with two options then I have an alternative. My hypothetical situation was two identical woman but 1. is trans 2. is not 1 /= 2 Therefore I have an alternative, therefore think about what you're saying to me before you say it. How do you not understand that is there is no "is trans." There's just: 1. is woman 2. is woman I think what you're trying to do here is imply that the trans woman will have some sort of emotional baggage or surgical scars and that is what you don't prefer...but those things aren't implied by the "trans" modifier. What you're actually saying is that you prefer someone who was a certain way in the past...even though their past has no consequences for who they are now (at least in the context of just banging them). You really don't understand how "this person changed" is not actually a characteristic of them but rather a description of how a old characteristic went away and new one came to be? I'm not going to be able to explain this any better. So if you're still confused, someone else is gonna have to take over. I think you just don't understand what trans actually means. I told you that if you presented me with two identical people except one of them is trans and the other isn't trans then I want the person who isn't trans. My sexual preferences are my own. You don't need to understand them, you don't need to rationalise them, all you need to do is respect them. But you have absolutely no way of knowing if one is trans. How can you act on a preference if you can't even identify it? I have trouble respecting this because you're claiming a difference that just really doesn't exist and basing it on "preference" when in reality your hormones have absolutely no way to distinguish between the two...especially if they look identical. It sounds like veiled transphobia. Particularly if you're only looking to bang one of these chicks. Of course I can't act on a preference if I can't identify it, that doesn't mean that I don't have the preference. If you are presented with two identical women but one supports the same political party as you and the other doesn't then perhaps you would prefer the one with the same views because you have something in common. Perhaps you would prefer the other one because opposites attract. Perhaps political orientation plays no part in your sexual preferences. That's your business. You can't identify this difference at a glance but it exists and it's possible that you have a preference. Is it so difficult for you to understand that I might have a preference if the person I'm about to have sex with is a trans person or not?
Except that you can never identify the difference. It doesn't exist in any practical way. If you could never identify the political parties of your hookups then yeah, your political preferences in women would be pretty damn stupid too.
It's difficult for me to understand because you're essentially claiming that you don't want to have sex with a trans person while having absolutely no way of identifying a trans person. If you can't even tell them apart from someone who was born a woman, then what's guiding that preference? The only possibility is transphobia since there's no actual difference between the women.
|
|
|
On July 31 2013 07:00 IamPryda wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 06:46 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:44 IamPryda wrote:
I don't have a problem with calling a transgender what ever they want but what I would have a problem with is a teenage or younger transgender with a penis sharing a locker room with young girls and being told they have a right to be there and the privacy of everyone else means nothing In general this does not happen and people shouldn't be worried about it. You are more likely to have an issue with boys sneaking into to girls locker room to look at them in their underpants. There was just a case where a 12 year old transgendered parents sued a school for making there child use a solo bathroom to change for gym class and use the bathroom instead of allowing her to use the girls room and won. I just think that while gay/transgender rights are important of shouldn't infringe on other peoples right to privacy and safety
Well yes, the school can't single out specific people with rules because they think that someone might be offended. They aren't allowed to do it for gay students either, why would a transgender one be any different?
|
On July 31 2013 07:00 IamPryda wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 06:46 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:44 IamPryda wrote:
I don't have a problem with calling a transgender what ever they want but what I would have a problem with is a teenage or younger transgender with a penis sharing a locker room with young girls and being told they have a right to be there and the privacy of everyone else means nothing In general this does not happen and people shouldn't be worried about it. You are more likely to have an issue with boys sneaking into to girls locker room to look at them in their underpants. There was just a case where a 12 year old transgendered parents sued a school for making there child use a solo bathroom to change for gym class and use the bathroom instead of allowing her to use the girls room and won. I just think that while gay/transgender rights are important of shouldn't infringe on other peoples right to privacy and safety
How are other people right being infringe ? What is so wrong with a trans girl going in a washroom with stall to pee ?
|
On July 31 2013 06:53 Reason wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 06:38 Klondikebar wrote:On July 31 2013 06:37 Reason wrote:On July 31 2013 06:25 Klondikebar wrote:On July 31 2013 06:18 Reason wrote:On July 31 2013 06:08 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:04 Shodaa wrote:On July 31 2013 06:00 maybenexttime wrote:On July 31 2013 05:41 Reason wrote:On July 31 2013 05:38 theodorus12 wrote:
[quote]
So you really think, I should call someone a women, only because he feels like one but still has a penis?
[quote]
You just defined that yourself? Because actually women is defined as a female human and men as a male human... No he didn't just define that himself. Do some reading before you start trying to tell people they are wrong when they're obviously more informed on the topic than you are. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_gender_distinctionSex is annotated as different from gender in the Oxford English Dictionary where it says sex "tends now to refer to biological differences, while . . . [gender] often refers to cultural or social ones.A working definition in use by the World Health Organization (WHO) for its work is that "'sex refers to the biological and physiological characteristics that define men and women" and that "'male' and 'female' are sex categories". Or you can simply choose not to accept the terminology the LGBT/feminist ideologists lobby for. Those definitions are not in any way objective, "gender studies" is not a scientific discipline, it's ideology being forced onto universities. So why don't you accept it anyway ? Is it so hard to not be an asshole and not insult trans people and gender variant people ? So calling people what they are and not what they feel like is being an asshole? Language evolves over time. Nowadays sex refers to biologically male or female and gender refers to gender identification. Since their gender identification is not dependent upon biological sex, telling someone they are not a particular gender when they identify with being that particular gender makes you an asshole, yes. On July 31 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On July 31 2013 06:06 Reason wrote:On July 31 2013 06:03 Klondikebar wrote:On July 31 2013 06:02 Reason wrote:On July 31 2013 05:51 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
If the women are identical then you can't claim preference. Preference isn't academic. If you can't tell a difference between the two unless one tells you she's trans...then your preferences aren't a play, your ill conceived notions of what trans means are at play. Firstly, tell me what my notions of the meaning of trans are. Secondly, explain how they are ill conceived. Thirdly, explain how my sexual preferences are somehow independent from these notions. Alternatively you could just accept that my sexual preferences include a preference for non trans people whether that's distinguishable in your mind or not, it is in mine. Please manage to do this before you come ever closer to outright insulting me for my sexual preferences in a thread dedicated to the discussion of LGBT rights if you haven't already crossed that line. Preference isn't academic? Do you think I'm an animal? Preference is an affinity for one characteristic over another. If the women are identical, they have no different characteristics. Making sense? pref·er·ence /ˈpref(ə)rəns/ Noun A greater liking for one alternative over another or others. A thing preferred. I prefer the non trans woman to the alternative of the trans woman. Making fucking sense? Trans isn't a characteristic. It's not a thing. It just indicates a transition from one set of characteristics to another. It has absolutely no descriptive power about the current person standing in front of you. You seem to be struggling with basic definitions here. Struggling with basic definitions? This is becoming ridiculous. If presented with two options then I have an alternative. My hypothetical situation was two identical woman but 1. is trans 2. is not 1 /= 2 Therefore I have an alternative, therefore think about what you're saying to me before you say it. How do you not understand that is there is no "is trans." There's just: 1. is woman 2. is woman I think what you're trying to do here is imply that the trans woman will have some sort of emotional baggage or surgical scars and that is what you don't prefer...but those things aren't implied by the "trans" modifier. What you're actually saying is that you prefer someone who was a certain way in the past...even though their past has no consequences for who they are now (at least in the context of just banging them). You really don't understand how "this person changed" is not actually a characteristic of them but rather a description of how a old characteristic went away and new one came to be? I'm not going to be able to explain this any better. So if you're still confused, someone else is gonna have to take over. I think you just don't understand what trans actually means. I told you that if you presented me with two identical people except one of them is trans and the other isn't trans then I want the person who isn't trans. My sexual preferences are my own. You don't need to understand them, you don't need to rationalise them, all you need to do is respect them. But you have absolutely no way of knowing if one is trans. How can you act on a preference if you can't even identify it? I have trouble respecting this because you're claiming a difference that just really doesn't exist and basing it on "preference" when in reality your hormones have absolutely no way to distinguish between the two...especially if they look identical. It sounds like veiled transphobia. Particularly if you're only looking to bang one of these chicks. Of course I can't act on a preference if I can't identify it, that doesn't mean that I don't have the preference. If you are presented with two identical women but one supports the same political party as you and the other doesn't then perhaps you would prefer the one with the same views because you have something in common. Perhaps you would prefer the other one because opposites attract. Perhaps political orientation plays no part in your sexual preferences. That's your business. You can't identify this difference at a glance but it exists and it's possible that you have a preference. Is it so difficult for you to understand that I might have a preference if the person I'm about to have sex with is a trans person or not?
Conflating sexual attraction with other factors.
You would be sexually attracted to both women if they are both identical (except one is trans and the other isn't, even if you can't tell), but given more information, you'd prefer to be with the cis woman for whatever reason (i.e. lack of trust, desire for children, desire for no baggage, etc.). I admittedly do not know how your brain works re: sexual attraction, but my understanding is that for most people it works on a physical level, which may/may not be augmented based on other factors (e.g. emotional, intellectual, etc.). But if you don't know the difference, then the trans factor honestly wouldn't come into play.
I don't mean to dictate any of this to you -- I don't believe in telling people, oh, they should be attracted to X or Y, there are plenty of reasons why someone would not want to be with a trans person -- just trying to explain a bit.
|
On July 31 2013 06:58 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 06:51 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:47 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 06:45 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:42 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:40 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:36 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:32 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:28 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 06:26 theodorus12 wrote:
[quote]
I don't mean it in an insulting way, I wouldn't call anyone out for being fat. But if I were asked, "is your co worker fat?" I would say yes. The same way I would refer to a man with a penis as "he".
So if i need to know if someone is overweight i can count on you to be accurate but if i want to know someones gender i can count on you being ignorant. No, you can count on me to use the actual meaning and not one that while heavily pushed by some people, is still wrong. On July 31 2013 06:28 Klondikebar wrote:On July 31 2013 06:26 theodorus12 wrote:
[quote]
I don't mean it in an insulting way, I wouldn't call anyone out for being fat. But if I were asked, "is your co worker fat?" I would say yes. The same way I would refer to a man with a penis as "he".
And I don't mean it in an insulting way, but you're an ignorant asshole who doesn't have anything to contribute to this discussion. That's your opinion and I'm completely fine with it. Like I already said, I'm not the one going around telling people who they MUST see me and how not. On July 31 2013 06:30 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:26 theodorus12 wrote:
[quote]
I don't mean it in an insulting way, I wouldn't call anyone out for being fat. But if I were asked, "is your co worker fat?" I would say yes. The same way I would refer to a man with a penis as "he".
But you wouldn't call them fat to their face, correct? Well this is the same thing. You KNOW they are a male, but that does not mean you NEED to use the word HE. You can say "she" and no one will be harmed. If you ask why, its for the same reason you don't call people fat to their face, because its inpolite. I would obviously call them fat if they asked me if they are fat or not..... I simply use the right word in the right context. There is no reason to say "lol you are fat", like there is no reason to say "lol you are a man". I will not go out of my way to insult anyone. But if the right context comes up, I will call them what they are... So basicly, you have no desire to hold down a job, like ever? Because this kind of honesty will get you fired for being an asshole. And god help you if you work with a person who is trans gender. I actually work part time for the same employer since my 2nd year in university. Maybe it's different where you live, but here honesty is actually something valued. Nah, I'm pretty sure you just don't act like this in public and only talk about this stuff on the internet. If faced with the prospect of being fired for calling someone by the gender you KNEW to be correct, you would just cave, call them what they wanted and keep your job. You are wrong. But still funny how this is what you have to resort to, it's a bit a funnier version of "lol you wouldn't say that to my face etc...." you said you would call people who identified as women "he" in the work place to hold on to what you know as correct and true and that this is valued at your company. im pretty sure calling you out on it isn't resorting to something so much as pointing out that you're probably lying. And yes, that is what I would do, call them what they are. Because everything else is lying. Calling me out on it is pointless since he can't prove it's not true, just like the " you woudn't say that to my face"... And we are pointing out that we don't believe you and know you would want to keep your job, avoid getting beating up or having your girlfriend break up with you because your being a jerk. You can act like you would take the high road all you want on the internet, but I don't think you are going to back it up when it could have a negative effect on your life.
You are free to believe whatever you want, still doesn't make it right. Maybe we live in different places, but people here generally don't consider being honest as being a jerk.
|
On July 31 2013 07:00 theodorus12 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 06:57 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 06:56 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:53 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 06:51 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:47 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 06:45 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:42 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:40 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:36 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
So basicly, you have no desire to hold down a job, like ever? Because this kind of honesty will get you fired for being an asshole. And god help you if you work with a person who is trans gender. I actually work part time for the same employer since my 2nd year in university. Maybe it's different where you live, but here honesty is actually something valued. Nah, I'm pretty sure you just don't act like this in public and only talk about this stuff on the internet. If faced with the prospect of being fired for calling someone by the gender you KNEW to be correct, you would just cave, call them what they wanted and keep your job. You are wrong. But still funny how this is what you have to resort to, it's a bit a funnier version of "lol you wouldn't say that to my face etc...." you said you would call people who identified as women "he" in the work place to hold on to what you know as correct and true and that this is valued at your company. im pretty sure calling you out on it isn't resorting to something so much as pointing out that you're probably lying. And yes, that is what I would do, call them what they are. Because everything else is lying. Calling me out on it is pointless since he can't prove it's not true, just like the " you woudn't say that to my face"... well he was just letting you know that this isn't appropriate anymore and you should catch up to modern humans So in your world, lying, just not to hurt the feelings of someone is appropriate? Good to know that you are the authority on what defines a "modern human". :D best strawman yet. i think you would be lying by calling someone that identifies as a woman a he. Please just stop, it makes no sense at all. So would it also be lying to call a fat person that identifies as skinny, fat?
You please just stop, it makes no sense at all.
They ARE a woman. they ARE fat.
why are you talking about whats between their legs to choose their pronoun?
|
On July 31 2013 07:00 theodorus12 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 06:57 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 06:56 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:53 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 06:51 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:47 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 06:45 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:42 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:40 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:36 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
So basicly, you have no desire to hold down a job, like ever? Because this kind of honesty will get you fired for being an asshole. And god help you if you work with a person who is trans gender. I actually work part time for the same employer since my 2nd year in university. Maybe it's different where you live, but here honesty is actually something valued. Nah, I'm pretty sure you just don't act like this in public and only talk about this stuff on the internet. If faced with the prospect of being fired for calling someone by the gender you KNEW to be correct, you would just cave, call them what they wanted and keep your job. You are wrong. But still funny how this is what you have to resort to, it's a bit a funnier version of "lol you wouldn't say that to my face etc...." you said you would call people who identified as women "he" in the work place to hold on to what you know as correct and true and that this is valued at your company. im pretty sure calling you out on it isn't resorting to something so much as pointing out that you're probably lying. And yes, that is what I would do, call them what they are. Because everything else is lying. Calling me out on it is pointless since he can't prove it's not true, just like the " you woudn't say that to my face"... well he was just letting you know that this isn't appropriate anymore and you should catch up to modern humans So in your world, lying, just not to hurt the feelings of someone is appropriate? Good to know that you are the authority on what defines a "modern human". :D best strawman yet. i think you would be lying by calling someone that identifies as a woman a he. Please just stop, it makes no sense at all. So would it also be lying to call a fat person that identifies as skinny, fat?
Yes, in polite society, you should lie to avoid conflict. I don't know what fucking world you live in where you are honest all the time, but its must be a horrible place. Over here, we keep our moral highground in check for everyones sake.
|
On July 31 2013 07:03 theodorus12 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 06:58 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:51 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:47 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 06:45 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:42 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:40 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:36 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:32 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:28 ComaDose wrote:
[quote]
So if i need to know if someone is overweight i can count on you to be accurate but if i want to know someones gender i can count on you being ignorant. No, you can count on me to use the actual meaning and not one that while heavily pushed by some people, is still wrong. On July 31 2013 06:28 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
And I don't mean it in an insulting way, but you're an ignorant asshole who doesn't have anything to contribute to this discussion. That's your opinion and I'm completely fine with it. Like I already said, I'm not the one going around telling people who they MUST see me and how not. On July 31 2013 06:30 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
But you wouldn't call them fat to their face, correct? Well this is the same thing. You KNOW they are a male, but that does not mean you NEED to use the word HE. You can say "she" and no one will be harmed. If you ask why, its for the same reason you don't call people fat to their face, because its inpolite. I would obviously call them fat if they asked me if they are fat or not..... I simply use the right word in the right context. There is no reason to say "lol you are fat", like there is no reason to say "lol you are a man". I will not go out of my way to insult anyone. But if the right context comes up, I will call them what they are... So basicly, you have no desire to hold down a job, like ever? Because this kind of honesty will get you fired for being an asshole. And god help you if you work with a person who is trans gender. I actually work part time for the same employer since my 2nd year in university. Maybe it's different where you live, but here honesty is actually something valued. Nah, I'm pretty sure you just don't act like this in public and only talk about this stuff on the internet. If faced with the prospect of being fired for calling someone by the gender you KNEW to be correct, you would just cave, call them what they wanted and keep your job. You are wrong. But still funny how this is what you have to resort to, it's a bit a funnier version of "lol you wouldn't say that to my face etc...." you said you would call people who identified as women "he" in the work place to hold on to what you know as correct and true and that this is valued at your company. im pretty sure calling you out on it isn't resorting to something so much as pointing out that you're probably lying. And yes, that is what I would do, call them what they are. Because everything else is lying. Calling me out on it is pointless since he can't prove it's not true, just like the " you woudn't say that to my face"... And we are pointing out that we don't believe you and know you would want to keep your job, avoid getting beating up or having your girlfriend break up with you because your being a jerk. You can act like you would take the high road all you want on the internet, but I don't think you are going to back it up when it could have a negative effect on your life. You are free to believe whatever you want, still doesn't make it right. Maybe we live in different places, but people here generally don't consider being honest as being a jerk.
You're not honest, you're just transphobic and unwilling to learn.
|
On July 31 2013 07:00 theodorus12 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 06:57 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 06:56 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:53 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 06:51 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:47 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 06:45 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:42 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:40 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:36 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
So basicly, you have no desire to hold down a job, like ever? Because this kind of honesty will get you fired for being an asshole. And god help you if you work with a person who is trans gender. I actually work part time for the same employer since my 2nd year in university. Maybe it's different where you live, but here honesty is actually something valued. Nah, I'm pretty sure you just don't act like this in public and only talk about this stuff on the internet. If faced with the prospect of being fired for calling someone by the gender you KNEW to be correct, you would just cave, call them what they wanted and keep your job. You are wrong. But still funny how this is what you have to resort to, it's a bit a funnier version of "lol you wouldn't say that to my face etc...." you said you would call people who identified as women "he" in the work place to hold on to what you know as correct and true and that this is valued at your company. im pretty sure calling you out on it isn't resorting to something so much as pointing out that you're probably lying. And yes, that is what I would do, call them what they are. Because everything else is lying. Calling me out on it is pointless since he can't prove it's not true, just like the " you woudn't say that to my face"... well he was just letting you know that this isn't appropriate anymore and you should catch up to modern humans So in your world, lying, just not to hurt the feelings of someone is appropriate? Good to know that you are the authority on what defines a "modern human". :D best strawman yet. i think you would be lying by calling someone that identifies as a woman a he. Please just stop, it makes no sense at all. So would it also be lying to call a fat person that identifies as skinny, fat?
Do you understand the difference between gender and sex?
|
On July 31 2013 07:03 theodorus12 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 06:58 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:51 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:47 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 06:45 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:42 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:40 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:36 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:32 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:28 ComaDose wrote:
[quote]
So if i need to know if someone is overweight i can count on you to be accurate but if i want to know someones gender i can count on you being ignorant. No, you can count on me to use the actual meaning and not one that while heavily pushed by some people, is still wrong. On July 31 2013 06:28 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
And I don't mean it in an insulting way, but you're an ignorant asshole who doesn't have anything to contribute to this discussion. That's your opinion and I'm completely fine with it. Like I already said, I'm not the one going around telling people who they MUST see me and how not. On July 31 2013 06:30 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
But you wouldn't call them fat to their face, correct? Well this is the same thing. You KNOW they are a male, but that does not mean you NEED to use the word HE. You can say "she" and no one will be harmed. If you ask why, its for the same reason you don't call people fat to their face, because its inpolite. I would obviously call them fat if they asked me if they are fat or not..... I simply use the right word in the right context. There is no reason to say "lol you are fat", like there is no reason to say "lol you are a man". I will not go out of my way to insult anyone. But if the right context comes up, I will call them what they are... So basicly, you have no desire to hold down a job, like ever? Because this kind of honesty will get you fired for being an asshole. And god help you if you work with a person who is trans gender. I actually work part time for the same employer since my 2nd year in university. Maybe it's different where you live, but here honesty is actually something valued. Nah, I'm pretty sure you just don't act like this in public and only talk about this stuff on the internet. If faced with the prospect of being fired for calling someone by the gender you KNEW to be correct, you would just cave, call them what they wanted and keep your job. You are wrong. But still funny how this is what you have to resort to, it's a bit a funnier version of "lol you wouldn't say that to my face etc...." you said you would call people who identified as women "he" in the work place to hold on to what you know as correct and true and that this is valued at your company. im pretty sure calling you out on it isn't resorting to something so much as pointing out that you're probably lying. And yes, that is what I would do, call them what they are. Because everything else is lying. Calling me out on it is pointless since he can't prove it's not true, just like the " you woudn't say that to my face"... And we are pointing out that we don't believe you and know you would want to keep your job, avoid getting beating up or having your girlfriend break up with you because your being a jerk. You can act like you would take the high road all you want on the internet, but I don't think you are going to back it up when it could have a negative effect on your life. You are free to believe whatever you want, still doesn't make it right. Maybe we live in different places, but people here generally don't consider being honest as being a jerk.
well here people don't consider being intolerant being honest.
|
On July 31 2013 07:03 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 07:00 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:57 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 06:56 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:53 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 06:51 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:47 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 06:45 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:42 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:40 theodorus12 wrote:
[quote]
I actually work part time for the same employer since my 2nd year in university. Maybe it's different where you live, but here honesty is actually something valued.
Nah, I'm pretty sure you just don't act like this in public and only talk about this stuff on the internet. If faced with the prospect of being fired for calling someone by the gender you KNEW to be correct, you would just cave, call them what they wanted and keep your job. You are wrong. But still funny how this is what you have to resort to, it's a bit a funnier version of "lol you wouldn't say that to my face etc...." you said you would call people who identified as women "he" in the work place to hold on to what you know as correct and true and that this is valued at your company. im pretty sure calling you out on it isn't resorting to something so much as pointing out that you're probably lying. And yes, that is what I would do, call them what they are. Because everything else is lying. Calling me out on it is pointless since he can't prove it's not true, just like the " you woudn't say that to my face"... well he was just letting you know that this isn't appropriate anymore and you should catch up to modern humans So in your world, lying, just not to hurt the feelings of someone is appropriate? Good to know that you are the authority on what defines a "modern human". :D best strawman yet. i think you would be lying by calling someone that identifies as a woman a he. Please just stop, it makes no sense at all. So would it also be lying to call a fat person that identifies as skinny, fat? You please just stop, it makes no sense at all. They ARE a woman. they ARE fat. why are you talking about whats between their legs to choose their pronoun?
Because a women is generally defined as a female human, so I really don't see the need to call a born male with a penis, a women.
On July 31 2013 07:04 Shodaa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 07:03 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:58 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:51 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:47 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 06:45 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:42 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:40 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:36 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:32 theodorus12 wrote:
[quote]
No, you can count on me to use the actual meaning and not one that while heavily pushed by some people, is still wrong.
[quote]
That's your opinion and I'm completely fine with it. Like I already said, I'm not the one going around telling people who they MUST see me and how not.
[quote]
I would obviously call them fat if they asked me if they are fat or not.....
I simply use the right word in the right context. There is no reason to say "lol you are fat", like there is no reason to say "lol you are a man". I will not go out of my way to insult anyone. But if the right context comes up, I will call them what they are... So basicly, you have no desire to hold down a job, like ever? Because this kind of honesty will get you fired for being an asshole. And god help you if you work with a person who is trans gender. I actually work part time for the same employer since my 2nd year in university. Maybe it's different where you live, but here honesty is actually something valued. Nah, I'm pretty sure you just don't act like this in public and only talk about this stuff on the internet. If faced with the prospect of being fired for calling someone by the gender you KNEW to be correct, you would just cave, call them what they wanted and keep your job. You are wrong. But still funny how this is what you have to resort to, it's a bit a funnier version of "lol you wouldn't say that to my face etc...." you said you would call people who identified as women "he" in the work place to hold on to what you know as correct and true and that this is valued at your company. im pretty sure calling you out on it isn't resorting to something so much as pointing out that you're probably lying. And yes, that is what I would do, call them what they are. Because everything else is lying. Calling me out on it is pointless since he can't prove it's not true, just like the " you woudn't say that to my face"... And we are pointing out that we don't believe you and know you would want to keep your job, avoid getting beating up or having your girlfriend break up with you because your being a jerk. You can act like you would take the high road all you want on the internet, but I don't think you are going to back it up when it could have a negative effect on your life. You are free to believe whatever you want, still doesn't make it right. Maybe we live in different places, but people here generally don't consider being honest as being a jerk. You're not honest, you're just transphobic and unwilling to learn.
I'm not transphobic at all, I support them to have equal rights like everyone else rtc. But it's also my right to call them what they actually are and not what they want to be.
|
Internet 101: don't attempt to educate those who do not display the willingness to be open-minded enough to learn.
|
On July 31 2013 06:51 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 06:45 maybenexttime wrote:On July 31 2013 06:17 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:16 maybenexttime wrote:On July 31 2013 05:51 Klondikebar wrote:On July 31 2013 05:47 Reason wrote:On July 31 2013 05:39 Klondikebar wrote:On July 31 2013 05:36 Reason wrote:On July 31 2013 05:13 Klondikebar wrote:On July 31 2013 05:07 Reason wrote:
[quote]
You've actually undermined the point you're trying to communicate by saying this and I think you're being a little unreasonable about it too.
If someone who I view as fundamentally a man (regardless of his personal gender identification) gets an operation to remove his penis, he's still fundamentally a man as far as I'm concerned. I'm completely capable of understanding and respecting he might identify as a woman but that doesn't mean that I have to think of him as a woman myself or else I'm a total bastard. My personal relationship with gender roles and identities does not need to alter to accommodate other peoples beliefs, I just need to accept that some people view hold different beliefs and treat them accordingly.
If someone wants to view a trans person as a "woman with a penis" or a "man with no penis" they're perfectly entitled to do so if they respect that persons gender identity. If a woman with a large penis and adams apple came onto me and said "it's okay honey, I'm all woman" I'd be politely inclined to disagree and tell her I'm not interested and that's not disrespectful or bigoted or anything like that. If the same individual came onto me after they'd had their penis and adams apple removed and I don't give a fuck what else surgery they've had I'd react in the exact same way and that's entirely my choice and one I can make with a conscience clear of such negative terms. I'd refer to this individual as "she", however, if that's how they viewed themselves.
It's not weird at all that I don't want to have any contact with someone who's had a sex-change, what's weird is trying to pretend that it's not weird because they would be the first people to admit that it is. No it doesn't undermine my point. The person identifies as a woman. Having an operation to remove her penis doesn't change the way she identifies herself. Your flawed view has absolutely no bearing on them or their identity. Just because you're wrong about them doesn't mean they're suddenly different. How you react to them is your business and not relevant to the point your trying to make. I still think it's kinda weird that you'd be so hung up on a body that doesn't exist anymore but w/e (I think a lot of that comes from the fact that people don't realize how good the surgery and therapy is nowadays). Your reaction, opinion, understanding of the other person doesn't change who they are. And neither does surgery. I'm referring to when you said "it's weird that you would be disturbed by their previous body because that body doesn't exist anymore." It definitely does undermine that point because saying "that body doesn't exist anymore" has less impact as a statement here after acknowledging "operating on a body doesn't fundamentally change a person" ... if you're disturbed by a man who identifies as a woman you're equally entitled to be disturbed by a man who identifies as a woman then undergoes surgery so saying it's "weird" to be disturbed by that is obviously flawed, not only by your own admission. I agree with the following and I haven't said anything to the contrary. "Your reaction, opinion, understanding of the other person doesn't change who they are. And neither does surgery." So it's not the surgery that bothers you...it's the fact that they're trans at all? Yes that is correct. If you presented me with two identical women that I'm attracted to physically but one is trans and the other isn't I'm going to want to want to become involved with only the non trans woman. This is not weird or wrong, my own sexual preferences are my own business and I'm fairly certain the majority of heterosexual males would feel exactly the same way. If you wish to construct a poll asking this question then be my guest. On July 31 2013 05:45 DinoMight wrote:On July 31 2013 05:35 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 05:33 DinoMight wrote:On July 31 2013 05:23 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
"Penis" and "Vagina" are terms created to refer to people of different sexes. "Man" and "Woman" refer to different genders. What is the difference between your sex and your gender? Was not aware there was one. I thought the reason we have "male" and "female" was to distinguish between people who have penises and people who have vaginas. What's the purpose of having the terms man and woman when either can have either reproductive organ? What is then the basis for "man" or "woman?" I REALLY don't understand... so I'm asking for someone to englighten me, not comment on how poorly educated I am. Thanks. man and women are societal constructs about the different genders. male and female are sexes based on biology. I don't agree. Webster's dictionary defines "man" as: "an adult male human." Male is defined as: "an individual that produces small usually motile gametes (as spermatozoa or spermatozoids) which fertilize the eggs of a female" Maybe what you're trying to say is that some men associate more with the societal norms and expectations traditionally associated with women. But as it is you're making up definitions for words and confusing people (and making it extremely difficult to write about the transgender topic in terms of semantics, regardless of one's opinion). I think the word you are looking for here is "gender identity." Also, I demand an apology for calling me stupid and poorly educated, as clearly the dictionary is on my side! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_gender_distinctionSex is annotated as different from gender in the Oxford English Dictionary where it says sex "tends now to refer to biological differences, while . . . [gender] often refers to cultural or social ones. A working definition in use by the World Health Organization (WHO) for its work is that "'sex refers to the biological and physiological characteristics that define men and women" and that "'male' and 'female' are sex categories". Get with the times. If the women are identical then you can't claim preference. Preference isn't academic. If you can't tell a difference between the two unless one tells you she's trans...then your preferences aren't a play, your ill conceived notions of what trans means are at play. Just because you can't tell the difference unless outright told about the fact doesn't mean it's not a justified reason to be disturbed by the fact once you learn about it. E.g. I would consider having sex with a prostitute, especially unprotected (if we were in a relationship and she hid that from me), disgusting. Why would you ever we worried about that? Why would anyone? Also, don't have sex with prostitutes. You seem to have trouble understanding abstract examples (or either are trying to be witty/funny). I explained to him/her how it's possible to be disturbed by partaking in something as intimate as sex with someone having a certain characteristic which is not immediately visible or even tangible. This is a perfectly sound analogy. In neither case can you know that fact. And if that person tells you about it post factum, e.g. once you've got into a relationship, then you have every right to be disturbed by that characteristic, even though you did not know about it while having sex. In other words, claiming that if you can't tell the difference, the difference is meaningless/is not there is flawed reasoning. And I am telling you right now that if your dating someone and you get to the point of intimate and they haven't informed you that they are/were a man, thats a relationship issue. You have more to fear from sexually transmitted diseases. Also, get better examples. Having unprotected sex with a prostitute is not a good example of anything except poor decision making.
Read carefully before you tell to get better examples. I clearly said I was talking about a situation where we're in a relationship and she hadn't told me what she does for a living. So don't come up with patronizing remarks like "don't pay for sex" or "don't have unprotected sex with prostitutes"...
As for the bolded, it was the very premise of Klondikebar's posts, not mine... Keep up with the discussion. He made a claim that you can't have preference between trans and not trans, unless you know about it beforehand - so not knowing about it is a "relationship issue", as well as that being trans is not a characteristic. This isn't different from unknowingly being in a sexual relationship with someone who used to be a prostitute (and don't try to twist my words out of context, saying I'm claiming being transsexual and being a prostitute is the same thing).
|
On July 31 2013 07:07 theodorus12 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 07:03 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 07:00 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:57 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 06:56 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:53 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 06:51 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:47 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 06:45 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:42 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Nah, I'm pretty sure you just don't act like this in public and only talk about this stuff on the internet. If faced with the prospect of being fired for calling someone by the gender you KNEW to be correct, you would just cave, call them what they wanted and keep your job. You are wrong. But still funny how this is what you have to resort to, it's a bit a funnier version of "lol you wouldn't say that to my face etc...." you said you would call people who identified as women "he" in the work place to hold on to what you know as correct and true and that this is valued at your company. im pretty sure calling you out on it isn't resorting to something so much as pointing out that you're probably lying. And yes, that is what I would do, call them what they are. Because everything else is lying. Calling me out on it is pointless since he can't prove it's not true, just like the " you woudn't say that to my face"... well he was just letting you know that this isn't appropriate anymore and you should catch up to modern humans So in your world, lying, just not to hurt the feelings of someone is appropriate? Good to know that you are the authority on what defines a "modern human". :D best strawman yet. i think you would be lying by calling someone that identifies as a woman a he. Please just stop, it makes no sense at all. So would it also be lying to call a fat person that identifies as skinny, fat? You please just stop, it makes no sense at all. They ARE a woman. they ARE fat. why are you talking about whats between their legs to choose their pronoun? Because a women is generally defined as a female human, so I really don't see the need to call a born male with a penis, a women.
You do realise that female human isn't actually a definition of woman right? They are synonyms. Terms that mean the same. I would call a trans woman a female human. Because the terms are equivalent.
|
On July 31 2013 07:02 Shodaa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 07:00 IamPryda wrote:On July 31 2013 06:46 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:44 IamPryda wrote:
I don't have a problem with calling a transgender what ever they want but what I would have a problem with is a teenage or younger transgender with a penis sharing a locker room with young girls and being told they have a right to be there and the privacy of everyone else means nothing In general this does not happen and people shouldn't be worried about it. You are more likely to have an issue with boys sneaking into to girls locker room to look at them in their underpants. There was just a case where a 12 year old transgendered parents sued a school for making there child use a solo bathroom to change for gym class and use the bathroom instead of allowing her to use the girls room and won. I just think that while gay/transgender rights are important of shouldn't infringe on other peoples right to privacy and safety How are other people right being infringe ? What is so wrong with a trans girl going in a washroom with stall to pee ?
The females in the lockerroom complained they didn't feel comfartable getting changed in front a boy. You wouldn't force that same boy who identifies as a female to get dressed in boys locker room or does it not work both ways?
|
Damn, I keep writing and deleting, anyways, I heard the community burned Tracy Morgan for his homophobic jokes, which only lead me to believe that any group of almost any sort sucks. Not a fan at all of the comedian, but when people who are professional joke writers "lose their job" because they hurt some1's feelings ( literally any joke is bound to hurt ones feelings ), I just get depressed.
|
On July 31 2013 07:10 babylon wrote:
Internet 101: don't attempt to educate those who do not display the willingness to be open-minded enough to learn.
Yea, from my point of view it's more about educating those that are lurking/reading the thread. I still think there is some value.
|
On July 31 2013 06:36 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 06:32 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:28 ComaDose wrote:On July 31 2013 06:26 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:24 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:21 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:13 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:06 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 05:52 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 05:50 theodorus12 wrote:[quote] "tends now", "concept", "often", It's obvious that some people are trying to push the change of this definition, but that is not how 99% of the population sees it. And since you like Wikipedia so much. "A woman /ˈwʊmən/, pl: women /ˈwɪmɨn/ is a female human." "A man is an adult human male" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Womenhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ManIt's ok if you want to feel as a women, even though you are born male, but please don't expect the rest to call you that. You won't mind if we call your rude and a jerk if you take that stance? Beause a large number of people would agree that is what you are and I don't see why we shouldn't be able to call you what you are. I don't care, you can call me whatever you want, I'm not the one telling people how they MUST see me. You are the one saying that anyone who doesn't agree with you being a women even though you have a penis is wrong etc. If you can't see how deluded that is go ahead but please don't expect me to fall for it I have a birth name and a nick name. I perfer the nick name, but it is not my legal, given name. People don't stand their and demand to call me by my birth name because its on my id card. Its not a question of fact or forcing you to do something, it is just being polite and respectful. If someone asks you to refer to them as a woman or man, it is polite to do so. If you get that bent out of shape about it, I don't know what to tell you. Because I go by facts and not feelings. If someone is 200kg but feels skinny, I still wouldn't call him skinny. If someone dropped out of high school but wants to be called doctor I also wouldn't do that. So why exactly should I call a man, who still has a penis but feels like a women, a women? Because they asked you to? If a coworked asked you not to call them "fat", even though they were, woud you do it? This isn't a fact vs feelings thing. This is about being civil. I don't mean it in an insulting way, I wouldn't call anyone out for being fat. But if I were asked, "is your co worker fat?" I would say yes. The same way I would refer to a man with a penis as "he". So if i need to know if someone is overweight i can count on you to be accurate but if i want to know someones gender i can count on you being ignorant. No, you can count on me to use the actual meaning and not one that while heavily pushed by some people, is still wrong. On July 31 2013 06:28 Klondikebar wrote:On July 31 2013 06:26 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:24 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:21 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:13 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:06 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 05:52 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 05:50 theodorus12 wrote:[quote] "tends now", "concept", "often", It's obvious that some people are trying to push the change of this definition, but that is not how 99% of the population sees it. And since you like Wikipedia so much. "A woman /ˈwʊmən/, pl: women /ˈwɪmɨn/ is a female human." "A man is an adult human male" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Womenhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ManIt's ok if you want to feel as a women, even though you are born male, but please don't expect the rest to call you that. You won't mind if we call your rude and a jerk if you take that stance? Beause a large number of people would agree that is what you are and I don't see why we shouldn't be able to call you what you are. I don't care, you can call me whatever you want, I'm not the one telling people how they MUST see me. You are the one saying that anyone who doesn't agree with you being a women even though you have a penis is wrong etc. If you can't see how deluded that is go ahead but please don't expect me to fall for it I have a birth name and a nick name. I perfer the nick name, but it is not my legal, given name. People don't stand their and demand to call me by my birth name because its on my id card. Its not a question of fact or forcing you to do something, it is just being polite and respectful. If someone asks you to refer to them as a woman or man, it is polite to do so. If you get that bent out of shape about it, I don't know what to tell you. Because I go by facts and not feelings. If someone is 200kg but feels skinny, I still wouldn't call him skinny. If someone dropped out of high school but wants to be called doctor I also wouldn't do that. So why exactly should I call a man, who still has a penis but feels like a women, a women? Because they asked you to? If a coworked asked you not to call them "fat", even though they were, woud you do it? This isn't a fact vs feelings thing. This is about being civil. I don't mean it in an insulting way, I wouldn't call anyone out for being fat. But if I were asked, "is your co worker fat?" I would say yes. The same way I would refer to a man with a penis as "he". And I don't mean it in an insulting way, but you're an ignorant asshole who doesn't have anything to contribute to this discussion. That's your opinion and I'm completely fine with it. Like I already said, I'm not the one going around telling people who they MUST see me and how not. On July 31 2013 06:30 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:26 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:24 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:21 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 06:13 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 06:06 theodorus12 wrote:On July 31 2013 05:52 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2013 05:50 theodorus12 wrote:[quote] "tends now", "concept", "often", It's obvious that some people are trying to push the change of this definition, but that is not how 99% of the population sees it. And since you like Wikipedia so much. "A woman /ˈwʊmən/, pl: women /ˈwɪmɨn/ is a female human." "A man is an adult human male" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Womenhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ManIt's ok if you want to feel as a women, even though you are born male, but please don't expect the rest to call you that. You won't mind if we call your rude and a jerk if you take that stance? Beause a large number of people would agree that is what you are and I don't see why we shouldn't be able to call you what you are. I don't care, you can call me whatever you want, I'm not the one telling people how they MUST see me. You are the one saying that anyone who doesn't agree with you being a women even though you have a penis is wrong etc. If you can't see how deluded that is go ahead but please don't expect me to fall for it I have a birth name and a nick name. I perfer the nick name, but it is not my legal, given name. People don't stand their and demand to call me by my birth name because its on my id card. Its not a question of fact or forcing you to do something, it is just being polite and respectful. If someone asks you to refer to them as a woman or man, it is polite to do so. If you get that bent out of shape about it, I don't know what to tell you. Because I go by facts and not feelings. If someone is 200kg but feels skinny, I still wouldn't call him skinny. If someone dropped out of high school but wants to be called doctor I also wouldn't do that. So why exactly should I call a man, who still has a penis but feels like a women, a women? Because they asked you to? If a coworked asked you not to call them "fat", even though they were, woud you do it? This isn't a fact vs feelings thing. This is about being civil. I don't mean it in an insulting way, I wouldn't call anyone out for being fat. But if I were asked, "is your co worker fat?" I would say yes. The same way I would refer to a man with a penis as "he". But you wouldn't call them fat to their face, correct? Well this is the same thing. You KNOW they are a male, but that does not mean you NEED to use the word HE. You can say "she" and no one will be harmed. If you ask why, its for the same reason you don't call people fat to their face, because its inpolite. I would obviously call them fat if they asked me if they are fat or not..... I simply use the right word in the right context. There is no reason to say "lol you are fat", like there is no reason to say "lol you are a man". I will not go out of my way to insult anyone. But if the right context comes up, I will call them what they are... So basicly, you have no desire to hold down a job, like ever? Because this kind of honesty will get you fired for being an asshole. And god help you if you work with a person who is trans gender.
I think you pretty much summed up why "protected groups" face so many problems in the employment market. It's much easier to avoid any problems dealing with any type of "protected group" simply by not hiring any of them. Sure, there are laws against discriminatory hiring practices, but they either don't apply to small businesses, or are very, very difficult to prove.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
