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On November 13 2012 15:30 oneofthem wrote:
i always am curious why modern nazis hate jews. what's the basis for this idea?
is it just a tradition thing?
Jews, or as they are reffered to these days by neo-nazis and tinfoils, Zionists, or Zionism, are the ultimate scapegoat.
The conspiracy theories are so vast and plentiful, it isn't hard to convince some idiot that the Jews are behind all the wrongs of the world. Be it economy, culture, anything can be blamed on Jews.
The fate of the Jews is to suffer perpetual hatred, they really cannot escape it.
First they were banned from most jobs, so they drifted towards trade and banking. Now the Jews are held responsible for being bankers, and they must be made to pay for the control they have over the banking world. First they are driven into a corner, then they are beaten for hiding in a corner.
The Jews suffered the holocaust, but to the neo-nazis, the holocaust is an elaborate hoax, all done to deceive the world. The Jews were gassed and murdered by the millions, and for that they must be punished.
The Jews are driven out of Europe, into Israel, and now they must be punished for forming the state of Israel.
Jews will never escape their fate as the most hated minority in the world. We beat them, only to use their scars as an excuse to beat them more.
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Zurich15358 Posts
On November 13 2012 15:38 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 15:30 oneofthem wrote:
i always am curious why nazis hate jews. what's the basis for this idea? After we lost in WW1 Hitler - who was in the army during that time - and others tried to blame others for the loss. There was the "Dolchstosslegende" (that we would have won, but the home front gave up and thus stabbed the glorious military in the back) and Hitler just came up with the jews. That has stuck since then and it is easy to do ... just blame a jew for everything bad that is happening to you is an easy escape. Now its the foreign workers stealing the jobs btw., because "jews" would be too obvious.
Not correct, sorry. The Dolchstosslegende blamed defeat on the political Left, not on the Jews.
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On November 13 2012 15:30 oneofthem wrote:
i always am curious why modern nazis hate jews. what's the basis for this idea?
is it just a tradition thing?
Here's why the Nazis of old hated the Jews:
Well, first of all they are of the wrong race and ethnicity. That makes them a part of the out-group to be despised by the righteous that belong to the exclusive club of the upright standard bearers of the right religion, the right culture and the right ancestry.
Stir in a little fear, foment some anger, and direct resulting hate and aggression of the authority-loving, the ever faithful lemmings against the target (in this case the Jews), and voila!
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On November 13 2012 15:41 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 15:30 oneofthem wrote:
i always am curious why modern nazis hate jews. what's the basis for this idea?
is it just a tradition thing? Jews, or as they are reffered to these days by neo-nazis and tinfoils, Zionists, or Zionism, are the ultimate scapegoat. The conspiracy theories are so vast and plentiful, it isn't hard to convince some idiot that the Jews are behind all the wrongs of the world. Be it economy, culture, anything can be blamed on Jews. The fate of the Jews is to suffer perpetual hatred, they really cannot escape it. First they were banned from most jobs, so they drifted towards trade and banking. Now the Jews are held responsible for being bankers, and they must be made to pay for the control they have over the banking world. First they are driven into a corner, then they are beaten for hiding in a corner. The Jews suffered the holocaust, but to the neo-nazis, the holocaust is an elaborate hoax, all done to deceive the world. The Jews were gassed and murdered by the millions, and for that they must be punished. The Jews are driven out of Europe, into Israel, and now they must be punished for forming the state of Israel. Jews will never escape their fate as the most hated minority in the world. We beat them, only to use their scars as an excuse to beat them more.
There is quite the difference between a zionist and a jew. One is (arguably) aggressively occupying the land of others, the other belongs to a ethnoreligious group due to his or her gene pool. But that is an entirely different can of worms which I really think should be closed before we open it any further. Please just do not use the two words interchangeably as they really do differ quite a lot.
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On November 13 2012 15:47 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 15:41 zalz wrote:On November 13 2012 15:30 oneofthem wrote:
i always am curious why modern nazis hate jews. what's the basis for this idea?
is it just a tradition thing? Jews, or as they are reffered to these days by neo-nazis and tinfoils, Zionists, or Zionism, are the ultimate scapegoat. The conspiracy theories are so vast and plentiful, it isn't hard to convince some idiot that the Jews are behind all the wrongs of the world. Be it economy, culture, anything can be blamed on Jews. The fate of the Jews is to suffer perpetual hatred, they really cannot escape it. First they were banned from most jobs, so they drifted towards trade and banking. Now the Jews are held responsible for being bankers, and they must be made to pay for the control they have over the banking world. First they are driven into a corner, then they are beaten for hiding in a corner. The Jews suffered the holocaust, but to the neo-nazis, the holocaust is an elaborate hoax, all done to deceive the world. The Jews were gassed and murdered by the millions, and for that they must be punished. The Jews are driven out of Europe, into Israel, and now they must be punished for forming the state of Israel. Jews will never escape their fate as the most hated minority in the world. We beat them, only to use their scars as an excuse to beat them more. There is quite the difference between a zionist and a jew. One is (arguably) aggressively occupying the land of others, the other belongs to a ethnoreligious group due to his or her gene pool. But that is an entirely different can of worms which I really think should be closed before we open it any further. Please just do not use the two words interchangeably as they really do differ quite a lot.
In theory they differ, in practice they really don't.
When conspiracy nuts or neo-nazis talk about Zionism, they're talking about Jews.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
the no true jew (except a zionist) fallacy?
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On November 13 2012 12:05 Grimmyman123 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 11:40 m4inbrain wrote:On November 13 2012 11:28 Grimmyman123 wrote:On November 13 2012 07:45 Blackfeather wrote:On November 13 2012 06:09 Grimmyman123 wrote:
The solution is simple, and it was done 67 years ago, but it was not maintained.
Demilitarize Germany like we did at the end of World War 2. Maintain and enforce a zero military policy. We didn't learn the first time after World War 1 and allowed germany to rearm itself, and look what happened. If Germany is allowed to be run by some radical group again, with their current military, its a problem.
For referrence, if you didn't know, Germany's military budget is EQUAL to Austria, Switzerland, Czech, Belguin, Poland, Finland, Sweden, Norway, and the Netherlands military budgets COMBINED. Take a look at that list of countries and their proximity to Germany. Scary isn't it?
After World War 1, and then World War 2, we should have learned. There should not have been a wall dividing Germany. There should have been a wall surrounding it.
So, that way it doesnt matter who leads Germany or what their views are. Let them scwabble among themselves.
(Yes, I know this is an extreme point of view and is not wholy realistic due to the need for a country to be able to defend itself. However, the statistics and numbers are a bit frightening when it comes to Germany's military budget, military size, and the country's past history of conflicts.) your comment is quite racist on a side note. and according to wikipedia germany's military budget is 1,3% of their gdp, less budget than both france's or the united kingdom's, while germany's gdp is about 50% higher. btw if you isolate germany now the european market it will outright collapse. Thank you for your concern. My post was not racist at all, please do study up. GDP percentage is not an accurate gauge. Actual currency spent is more accurate when comparing militaries. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expendituresAs for isolating Germany, I don't think that they would care if the rest of europe has hard times. Yes, economy will take a dump, thats a given, globally. But, that's to be expected and could be worked around. Germany does not contain a natural resourse stockpile, with natural minerals and uranium as its main resourses, along with grown crops, at least that could not be offset globally. Meaning, Germany isnt the supplier of its surrounding countries with critical natural resources. Your post wasn't racist. But borderline stupid. Germany had a history of wars, right. But to hear from a canadian (a neighbor of, lol, the US) that he is "frightened" of our military.. Yeah, wow. Btw, guess what nation had the most wars in the last 200 years (including a fair share of war crimes). Oh, and then look how much they still spend on military. And keep in mind that they're actually a nation with nuclear capabilities. What a bunch of bullshit, seriously. Even if the right wing would suddenly take over in germany, which actually does not happen at all, a war as aggressor against poland, czech? With france and the UK (you know, nuclear weapons and stuff) directly next to us.. God, i can't really fathom how stupid someone has to be to actually think there are any possibilities to have that scenario. Im actually just playing devils advocate. My brother and I were having a good debate the other night about what should have happened to Germany after World War 2 and the happenings of war with that country. We did some fact checking etc etc, and were actually surprised to see how strong a military a country like Germany has, considering its historic past. We were surprised that the deaths of literally millions at the hand of a single country really didn't affect their future since the war, especially since early 1990. I actually played the opposite roll in that argument. But my brother did make some very good points, which are in this thread already. What somewhat put me on the edge decisiviley, was an argument that the current genepool of Germany, is from the populous which survived the war. The people that stood by and watched, doing nothing, as millions of people were exterminated. That actually elected by a massive majority the leadership and future they chose, and the slaugter that followed. That did nothing as the concentration camps within eye sight burned trainedloads of people. These people are the genetic makup which is the current german citizen. As much as I argued around it, it was a standing point which was fact. It happened, there were survivors, and those survivors lived on, procreated, and 2 and 3 generations later is where they are genetically. Now, I see your post was an attempt to poke at Americans, their war efforts and involvements, etc etc, in an effort to frustrate or infuriate me. You won't get that much pleasure from me. I might be Canadian, and the USA might be my neighbor to the south, but I could care less for them as a general populous, personally speaking.
Are you fucking stupid?!?!
How on earth can you really think that a genepool can inflict a nation this heavily? Society is definite by culture and education, not what my fucking granddad did or didn´t do. That doesn´t affect me at all. And btw what do you think your ancestors came from?! That´s right, Europe. Fuck your genepool!
And next time you do "some fact checking" : Hitler wasn´t elected, but i´m not really suprised by that seeing your last posts.
And on the whole debate, we just had a really nice event here in cologne where we have an annual concert against racism and intolerance and freakin´ 80000 people showed up, last anti-nazi demo i went we were 15000 against 100 neo-nazis.
Tell that your fucking genepool and get some education!
User was temp banned for this post.
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Jews have been a scapegoat for centuries. The only reason anti-antisemitism has died down in the west over the last few decades is because of the growth of PC as well as a collective guilt/pity over the Holocaust.
The question is why are Jews so hated over the centuries? The answer is relatively simple. In the west, most communities have been homogenous. You live in a catholic town or you live in a protestant town. Jews are kind of separate from the communities due to different religion and thus different assemblies and traditions. Being separate or different has historically been a liability.
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The more time passes between the end of World War 2 the worse the problem is bound to become.
It's human nature to forget the lessons of the past especially when you're born in an age far removed from them.
VERY few that are alive now can possibly remember the ramifications of the ideologies of Nazi-ism and Fascism and the resulting destruction those two ideologies helped lead to. Learning about it in a textbook isn't the same thing.
This is just my cynical view of the matter. It's entirely opinion though.
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On November 13 2012 15:53 Mallard86 wrote:
Jews have been a scapegoat for centuries. The only reason anti-antisemitism has died down in the west over the last few decades is because of the growth of PC as well as a collective guilt/pity over the Holocaust.
The question is why are Jews so hated over the centuries? The answer is relatively simple. In the west, most communities have been homogenous. You live in a catholic town or you live in a protestant town. Jews are kind of separate from the communities due to different religion and thus different assemblies and traditions. Being separate or different has historically been a liability.
The "You-killed-Christ" narrative that ran through the church is probably more too blame than their funny hats.
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On November 13 2012 15:56 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 15:53 Mallard86 wrote:
Jews have been a scapegoat for centuries. The only reason anti-antisemitism has died down in the west over the last few decades is because of the growth of PC as well as a collective guilt/pity over the Holocaust.
The question is why are Jews so hated over the centuries? The answer is relatively simple. In the west, most communities have been homogenous. You live in a catholic town or you live in a protestant town. Jews are kind of separate from the communities due to different religion and thus different assemblies and traditions. Being separate or different has historically been a liability. The "You-killed-Christ" narrative that ran through the church is probably more too blame than their funny hats.
I disagree. Christians killed far more Christians due to different flavors of Christianity than Christians killed Jews due to killing Christ. Also there was plenty of persecution of Muslims in Spain, Italy and southeastern Europe.
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On November 13 2012 15:53 Samba wrote:
Are you fucking stupid?!?!
How on earth can you really think that a genepool can inflict a nation this heavily? Society is definite by culture and education, not what my fucking granddad did or didn´t do. That doesn´t affect me at all. And btw what do you think your ancestors came from?! That´s right, Europe. Fuck your genepool!
And next time you do "some fact checking" : Hitler wasn´t elected, but i´m not really suprised by that seeing your last posts.
And on the whole debate, we just had a really nice event here in cologne where we have an annual concert against racism and intolerance and freakin´ 80000 people showed up, last anti-nazi demo i went we were 15000 against 100 neo-nazis.
Tell that your fucking genepool and get some education!
User was temp banned for this post.
Well this guy was temp banned for, at least I assume, bad language. But the core point is valid: As a German myself I´m sick of people telling me, that we have to apologize for things that I (including like all of my genereration) actually never did.
Also it is very ironic, that people argument now with a "german genepool", which a) doesn´t exist and b) if so is shared everywhere (making it not "german") and c) use arguments like a nazi to brand others as "nazis."
You think Germany is full of Nazis? Look somewhere else, because there will be more to find.
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Let's just make a simple test and most of you will understand why there is anti-semitism in this world....
Just imagine the Nazis were right. The Jews really are the root of all problems, killed Jesus. Imagine they control the media and Hollywood, all the money, the banking system and by it the World.
Really try to imagine that this is reality, if you are able to, you understand a simple truth. And the truth is, there are a lot of things in this world YOU believe...
Reality is what we believe... and we believe Israel is the Holy Land, that's why we take it, we expand it and we die for it. These desert monkeys shoot with firecracker rockets at our bunkers, we have bunkers every 100 meters, we have rocket sirenes, who alert us. We have Drones 24/7 flying over Gaza and the West Bank. We are in total control. We will never tolerate another Holocaust. We have the technology and the power to survive everything. When we go down, we will take the world with us. We also got i think a couple of hundred atomic warheads on Jericho 3 rockets, who have a radius of over 5000 kilometers. We have free (yes free) german submarines armed with atomic warheads. If Israel falls, the Samson option will be initiated, trust me.
There is no Israel without the world and there is no world without Israel.
I like to quote David Perlmutter: "Israel has been building nuclear weapons for 30 years. The Jews understand what passive and powerless acceptance of doom has meant for them in the past, and they have ensured against it. Masada was not an example to follow—it hurt the Romans not a whit, but Samson in Gaza? What would serve the Jew-hating world better in repayment for thousands of years of massacres but a Nuclear Winter. Or invite all those tut-tutting European statesmen and peace activists to join us in the ovens? For the first time in history, a people facing extermination while the world either cackles or looks away—unlike the Armenians, Tibetans, World War II European Jews or Rwandans—have the power to destroy the world. The ultimate justice?
Never underestimate us again.
User was banned for this post.
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On November 13 2012 15:56 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 15:53 Mallard86 wrote:
Jews have been a scapegoat for centuries. The only reason anti-antisemitism has died down in the west over the last few decades is because of the growth of PC as well as a collective guilt/pity over the Holocaust.
The question is why are Jews so hated over the centuries? The answer is relatively simple. In the west, most communities have been homogenous. You live in a catholic town or you live in a protestant town. Jews are kind of separate from the communities due to different religion and thus different assemblies and traditions. Being separate or different has historically been a liability. The "You-killed-Christ" narrative that ran through the church is probably more too blame than their funny hats.
Don't forget the money-lending business. That garnered a lot of people's misappropriated hate.
Back then, good Catholics couldn't loan money, so if you wanted to take out a loan, you're likely going to visit a Jewish establishment, and gawk at whatever interest rate they charged (I can only imagine with so little competition what those rates looked like back in that era). In the eyes of one PhD political scientist, this was the reason just behind natural distrust of a non-assimilating culture & people group that Jews garnered such hate.
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Shit is getting so Off-Topic that one angry angry dude is talking about taking the world down with him in case israel goes down...
really not sure if i should cringe or laugh, possibly both
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On November 13 2012 16:31 Elizar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 15:53 Samba wrote:
Are you fucking stupid?!?!
How on earth can you really think that a genepool can inflict a nation this heavily? Society is definite by culture and education, not what my fucking granddad did or didn´t do. That doesn´t affect me at all. And btw what do you think your ancestors came from?! That´s right, Europe. Fuck your genepool!
And next time you do "some fact checking" : Hitler wasn´t elected, but i´m not really suprised by that seeing your last posts.
And on the whole debate, we just had a really nice event here in cologne where we have an annual concert against racism and intolerance and freakin´ 80000 people showed up, last anti-nazi demo i went we were 15000 against 100 neo-nazis.
Tell that your fucking genepool and get some education!
User was temp banned for this post. Well this guy was temp banned for, at least I assume, bad language. But the core point is valid: As a German myself I´m sick of people telling me, that we have to apologize for things that I (including like all of my genereration) actually never did. Also it is very ironic, that people argument now with a "german genepool", which a) doesn´t exist and b) if so is shared everywhere (making it not "german") and c) use arguments like a nazi to brand others as "nazis." You think Germany is full of Nazis? Look somewhere else, because there will be more to find.
There are more far-rights extremists in Israel than in Germany anyways.
Pretty ironic that the people that were affected by the holocaust are doing one right now.. I guess playing the victim in this world can lead you far.
User was warned for this post
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On November 13 2012 15:35 teddyoojo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 15:30 oneofthem wrote:
i always am curious why nazis hate jews. what's the basis for this idea? religion. people (christians) hated jews for thousands of years for whatever reasons they could find so it was naturally the first and easiest "race" to hate on
For most of history Jews and Christians never really got along...you know, since the Jews killed by proxy Jesus. It's only been in the past eighty years or so, that Dispensationalism has crept into the 'mainstream'. Though shalt forgive, unless, you kill Jesus, I suppose. /shrug
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On November 13 2012 16:47 Lecideur wrote:
Let's just make a simple test and most of you will understand why there is anti-semitism in this world....
Just imagine the Nazis were right. The Jews really are the root of all problems, killed Jesus. Imagine they control the media and Hollywood, all the money, the banking system and by it the World.
Really try to imagine that this is reality, if you are able to, you understand a simple truth. And the truth is, there are a lot of things in this world YOU believe...
Reality is what we believe... and we believe Israel is the Holy Land, that's why we take it, we expand it and we die for it. These desert monkeys shoot with firecracker rockets at our bunkers, we have bunkers every 100 meters, we have rocket sirenes, who alert us. We have Drones 24/7 flying over Gaza and the West Bank. We are in total control. We will never tolerate another Holocaust. We have the technology and the power to survive everything. When we go down, we will take the world with us. We also got i think a couple of hundred atomic warheads on Jericho 3 rockets, who have a radius of over 5000 kilometers. We have free (yes free) german submarines armed with atomic warheads. If Israel falls, the Samson option will be initiated, trust me.
There is no Israel without the world and there is no world without Israel.
I like to quote David Perlmutter: "Israel has been building nuclear weapons for 30 years. The Jews understand what passive and powerless acceptance of doom has meant for them in the past, and they have ensured against it. Masada was not an example to follow—it hurt the Romans not a whit, but Samson in Gaza? What would serve the Jew-hating world better in repayment for thousands of years of massacres but a Nuclear Winter. Or invite all those tut-tutting European statesmen and peace activists to join us in the ovens? For the first time in history, a people facing extermination while the world either cackles or looks away—unlike the Armenians, Tibetans, World War II European Jews or Rwandans—have the power to destroy the world. The ultimate justice?
Never underestimate us again.
The entire world really? Even Far east Asia and South East Asia that had nothing to do with it and at that time probably just saw Jews as White people. You'll blow them up for no reason?
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On November 13 2012 16:47 Lecideur wrote:
Let's just make a simple test and most of you will understand why there is anti-semitism in this world....
Just imagine the Nazis were right. The Jews really are the root of all problems, killed Jesus. Imagine they control the media and Hollywood, all the money, the banking system and by it the World.
Really try to imagine that this is reality, if you are able to, you understand a simple truth. And the truth is, there are a lot of things in this world YOU believe...
Reality is what we believe... and we believe Israel is the Holy Land, that's why we take it, we expand it and we die for it. These desert monkeys shoot with firecracker rockets at our bunkers, we have bunkers every 100 meters, we have rocket sirenes, who alert us. We have Drones 24/7 flying over Gaza and the West Bank. We are in total control. We will never tolerate another Holocaust. We have the technology and the power to survive everything. When we go down, we will take the world with us. We also got i think a couple of hundred atomic warheads on Jericho 3 rockets, who have a radius of over 5000 kilometers. We have free (yes free) german submarines armed with atomic warheads. If Israel falls, the Samson option will be initiated, trust me.
There is no Israel without the world and there is no world without Israel.
I like to quote David Perlmutter: "Israel has been building nuclear weapons for 30 years. The Jews understand what passive and powerless acceptance of doom has meant for them in the past, and they have ensured against it. Masada was not an example to follow—it hurt the Romans not a whit, but Samson in Gaza? What would serve the Jew-hating world better in repayment for thousands of years of massacres but a Nuclear Winter. Or invite all those tut-tutting European statesmen and peace activists to join us in the ovens? For the first time in history, a people facing extermination while the world either cackles or looks away—unlike the Armenians, Tibetans, World War II European Jews or Rwandans—have the power to destroy the world. The ultimate justice?
Never underestimate us again.
Do you even lift?
User was warned for this post
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Could we label them xenonazis maybe? I don't feel that german or finnish far right (which I've got to know a lot about since living here for two years, and if you look at the news, gained a horrifying amount of seats in finnish municipal and national elections) are sharing any ideals that extremist groups in the easter part of Europe. Like, here, in Hungary, these marching skinhead vandals are actually burning Jewish flags and killing gypsies, and so forth O.o
And while both are severe problems, finnish, german, and austrian people (who are ranking #1 in polls about quitting the EU) aligning themselves with populist ideas, such as not letting foreigners getting educated on their money, assimilation problems with muslims, and fear of losing their jobs to cheaper foreign labor, are dealing with entirely different socioeconomical problems than far rightists in Eastern Europe, the Balkans, or Russia, where I think it's mostly an ideological thing.
Thus I feel a difference should be made between the two, before too many things are melted in the term "Nazi" making it harder for us to grasp some aspects of these problems.
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