I got one argument. Almost all sociological and political structures imitate natural biological occurring groups (Companies are like lion prides where females do most work and male eats prey). That is a fact, strongest in nature prevails and rules.
Now, I would like to make conjecture that money ~ power. I am not saying they are same, but in quite a few cases, money empower you to do things you want. So from that perspective capitalistic (Or corrupt socialistic like Soviet Union), merely imitates naturally occurring organization structures.
Saying that money based society is doomed to fail is like saying that animals will soon realize that they did it all wrong, and decide to coexist.
I am not saying that current organization of society is perfect, or even that it imitates natural evolved order of things perfectly (For example most predators with cull the sick and weird (By weird I mean those that do not run from predators for example)).
The only way I see for humans to get out of this is by giving up emotion and building insect like class based society (Still would not be equal thought). Meanwhile people that do better within current framework will be better off.
In other words, implemented on wide scale, this will fail like Soviet Union did, because crafty individuals will find a way to the top.
I think we can all agree that resources are not infinite, so lets make this as simple as possible.
There are 3 people who want a computer, the computer store only has 2 computers due to scarcity of resources. Who gets the computers? 1st come 1st serve? Is that fair? What if all three arrive at the same time? That system would reward the fastest runners or drivers.
The fundamental problem is divying up scarce resources.
On May 08 2012 05:44 gmen650 wrote: I think we can all agree that resources are not infinite, so lets make this as simple as possible.
There are 3 people who want a computer, the computer store only has 2 computers due to scarcity of resources. Who gets the computers? 1st come 1st serve? Is that fair? What if all three arrive at the same time? That system would reward the fastest runners or drivers.
The fundamental problem is divying up scarce resources.
Simple. Dismantle the third person's microwave and cell phone and use those to create a third computer.
On May 08 2012 05:44 gmen650 wrote: I think we can all agree that resources are not infinite, so lets make this as simple as possible.
There are 3 people who want a computer, the computer store only has 2 computers due to scarcity of resources. Who gets the computers? 1st come 1st serve? Is that fair? What if all three arrive at the same time? That system would reward the fastest runners or drivers.
The fundamental problem is divying up scarce resources.
Simple. Dismantle the third person's microwave and cell phone and use those to create a third computer.
Simple, now third person doesnt have a microwave or cell phone, but person 1 and 2 do.
edit* oh, we now also need a cell phone disassembly robot, a microwave disassembly robot, a cell phone and microwave parts to computer parts creating robot, a robot to file this complaint to, a robot to decide the proper course of action, etc... Amazing how complicated things can get when you need a robot to do everything, no?
In fact, you have yet to prove that there is a relationship between technology and unemployment rate.
I dont know what form you want your facts in obviously i can offer you numbers and incidents but i will give you a thought exercise instead.
Go back to the begining of the industrial area and think how much of the work done by hand is now done by machines. we used to have alot of our jobs in agriculture and manufacturing now almost all of our jobs are in the service sector which is also shrinking every year.
Economists know of this already they have been theorisng about this for almost a hundred years its been a long time coming.
you have yet to show that Jacque Fresco has any credibility. All you have done is post his videos that contain zero research or evidence
To me the content of what people speak of are more important then what school they went to. He has crediability not only as an engineer but also with what friends he had one of them being Albert einstein..
Pick any of the other questions then please. The other ones seem to be valid to you
Offer a sincere question and you will receive a sincere answer to the best of my ability. But if you go back and look at what you wrote maybe even you can conclude that there is no point in answering it.
On May 08 2012 05:44 gmen650 wrote: I think we can all agree that resources are not infinite, so lets make this as simple as possible.
There are 3 people who want a computer, the computer store only has 2 computers due to scarcity of resources. Who gets the computers? 1st come 1st serve? Is that fair? What if all three arrive at the same time? That system would reward the fastest runners or drivers.
The fundamental problem is divying up scarce resources.
We already created over 7 billion computers most of them lie in a dump somewhere just like your cell phones. When you develop a product to last and to be interchangable in the first step of manucaturing we get superior products. That could never survive at a reasonable price at the market.
The best money can buy isent even close what we could get if everything was free. Right now were wasting resources in cyclical consumption (Buy>throw away) instead of (Collect>Update>recycle)
In fact, you have yet to prove that there is a relationship between technology and unemployment rate.
I dont know what form you want your facts in obviously i can offer you numbers and incidents but i will give you a thought exercise instead.
HE WANTS FACTS. Statistics, numbers, empirical evidence. I am done here. Your response to his question makes it clear you are full of shit and entirely delusional. You have nothing to back your insane claims with, and you deflect and avoid every question. This is an embarrassment. Goodbye.
you have yet to show that Jacque Fresco has any credibility. All you have done is post his videos that contain zero research or evidence
To me the content of what people speak of are more important then what school they went to. He has crediability not only as an engineer but also with what friends he had one of them being Albert einstein..
Einstein did research and shared it, Fresco has not. See the difference?
I agree that content is more important than education but you have yet to show content. All you have shown is that Fresco is an interesting science fiction writer. That's it. There is no content beyond that. You may as well be advocating any other piece of science fiction as the pathway to the future.
For anyone more intressted in learning about automation and technological unemployment there are also books on this.And econimists writing about it in the wiki page aswel.
Technological unemployment has through most of history been a natural shift towards other sectors this is the first time in human history where that shift is trasncending out of the monetary system.
you have yet to show that Jacque Fresco has any credibility. All you have done is post his videos that contain zero research or evidence
To me the content of what people speak of are more important then what school they went to. He has crediability not only as an engineer but also with what friends he had one of them being Albert einstein..
Einstein did research and shared it, Fresco has not. See the difference?
Jacue fresco has done tremedous amount of research and done even more sharing then einstein. obviously in a diffrent field and not as publicly acclaimed which is no suprise considerng what he lectures about. I have actually met him and talked to him and his wife personaly.
For anyone more intressted in learning about automation and technological unemployment there are also books on this.And econimists writing about it in the wiki page aswel.
Technological unemployment has through most of history been a natural shift towards other sectors this is the first time in human history where that shift is trasncending out of the monetary system.
"Given that technological change generally increases productivity, it is an established principle of economics that technological change, although it disrupts the careers of individuals and the health of particular firms, cannot cause systemic unemployment"
Its the second sentence of the wiki article. You didnt even read it. "Theres books about this for people that want to learn!" Newsflash, there are books about everything. You cant even read the second sentence of an article you are trying to use to support your beliefs, nevermind a book.
you have yet to show that Jacque Fresco has any credibility. All you have done is post his videos that contain zero research or evidence
To me the content of what people speak of are more important then what school they went to. He has crediability not only as an engineer but also with what friends he had one of them being Albert einstein..
Einstein did research and shared it, Fresco has not. See the difference?
Jacue fresco has done tremedous amount of research and done even more sharing then einstein. obviously in a diffrent field and not as publicly acclaimed which is no suprise considerng what he lectures about. I have actually met him and talked to him and his wife personaly.
Where is his research listed on wikipedia? All I see are books and articles - not research. For example if I look up his article "Designing the Future" that appeared in The Futurist (and I did) it's just ideas and pictures - not research.
you have yet to show that Jacque Fresco has any credibility. All you have done is post his videos that contain zero research or evidence
To me the content of what people speak of are more important then what school they went to. He has crediability not only as an engineer but also with what friends he had one of them being Albert einstein..
Einstein did research and shared it, Fresco has not. See the difference?
Jacue fresco has done tremedous amount of research and done even more sharing then einstein. obviously in a diffrent field and not as publicly acclaimed which is no suprise considerng what he lectures about. I have actually met him and talked to him and his wife personaly.
Where is his research listed on wikipedia? All I see are books and articles - not research. For example if I look up his article "Designing the Future" that appeared in The Futurist (and I did) it's just ideas and pictures - not research.
I offer what i can find
Scientific Research Laboratories
Through the late 1940s and early 1950s, Fresco was director of Scientific Research Laboratories[28] at two locations. First located near Elysian Park in Los Angeles, it was operated with associates Eli Catran and Henry Giaretto. It later moved to a location in Los Feliz, near Hollywood,[42] where Fresco lived, lectured, and taught technical design,[11] meanwhile researching[43] and working on inventions as a freelance inventor and scientific consultant.[23] As a freelance operation, Fresco asserts that many of his inventions were unconditionally sold to his clients, thereby excluding his name from many of the patents.[44] During these years, Fresco encountered setbacks due to financial difficulties, for instance, resulting in the repossession of his lab equipment.
And this bores me anyway to talk about what credential a person have i wouldent want you to base your opinion based on what "Credientials" he/she/it has.
Given that technological change generally increases productivity, it is an established principle of economics that technological change, although it disrupts the careers of individuals and the health of particular firms, cannot cause systemic unemploymen
>
The last sentance "Cannot cause systemic unemployment" is incorret it is an obvious effect of automation its just that in the past sectors has shifted and always absorbed the unemployment but we are at an end for that. as the monetary system collapses.
you have yet to show that Jacque Fresco has any credibility. All you have done is post his videos that contain zero research or evidence
To me the content of what people speak of are more important then what school they went to. He has crediability not only as an engineer but also with what friends he had one of them being Albert einstein..
Einstein did research and shared it, Fresco has not. See the difference?
Jacue fresco has done tremedous amount of research and done even more sharing then einstein. obviously in a diffrent field and not as publicly acclaimed which is no suprise considerng what he lectures about. I have actually met him and talked to him and his wife personaly.
Where is his research listed on wikipedia? All I see are books and articles - not research. For example if I look up his article "Designing the Future" that appeared in The Futurist (and I did) it's just ideas and pictures - not research.
I offer what i can find
Scientific Research Laboratories
Through the late 1940s and early 1950s, Fresco was director of Scientific Research Laboratories[28] at two locations. First located near Elysian Park in Los Angeles, it was operated with associates Eli Catran and Henry Giaretto. It later moved to a location in Los Feliz, near Hollywood,[42] where Fresco lived, lectured, and taught technical design,[11] meanwhile researching[43] and working on inventions as a freelance inventor and scientific consultant.[23] As a freelance operation, Fresco asserts that many of his inventions were unconditionally sold to his clients, thereby excluding his name from many of the patents.[44] During these years, Fresco encountered setbacks due to financial difficulties, for instance, resulting in the repossession of his lab equipment.
And this bores me anyway to talk about what credential a person have i wouldent want you to base your opinion based on what "Credientials" he/she/it has.
You just posted that he worked freelance, and had his home repossessed due to financial trouble, what the hell good does that do us? This is a solid followup to posting an article you didnt read that contradicts the point you were trying to make by using it. Youre on a roll, dont stop now!
And for the love of god, you cant say a fundamental principle of economics is wrong "because I said so", and then go so far as to say its obvious. How is it obviously false? If its obvious, you should have tons of information to back up your post, so present this easily attainable evidence that I am just ignorant of please!
In 1948, unemployment was was 3.8%, in 1958 it was 6.8%, in 1968 it was 3.6%, in 1978 it was 6.1%, in 1988 it was 5.5%, in 1998 it was 4.5%, in 2008 it was 5.8%.
Unemployment is based off the current state of the economy (for the most part), which is why it's higher now then it was 4 years ago and how it's lower than it was in the early 1980s. Technology does not increase unemployment, it merely makes certain jobs obselete and creates new ones.
you have yet to show that Jacque Fresco has any credibility. All you have done is post his videos that contain zero research or evidence
To me the content of what people speak of are more important then what school they went to. He has crediability not only as an engineer but also with what friends he had one of them being Albert einstein..
Einstein did research and shared it, Fresco has not. See the difference?
Jacue fresco has done tremedous amount of research and done even more sharing then einstein. obviously in a diffrent field and not as publicly acclaimed which is no suprise considerng what he lectures about. I have actually met him and talked to him and his wife personaly.
Where is his research listed on wikipedia? All I see are books and articles - not research. For example if I look up his article "Designing the Future" that appeared in The Futurist (and I did) it's just ideas and pictures - not research.
I offer what i can find
Scientific Research Laboratories
Through the late 1940s and early 1950s, Fresco was director of Scientific Research Laboratories[28] at two locations. First located near Elysian Park in Los Angeles, it was operated with associates Eli Catran and Henry Giaretto. It later moved to a location in Los Feliz, near Hollywood,[42] where Fresco lived, lectured, and taught technical design,[11] meanwhile researching[43] and working on inventions as a freelance inventor and scientific consultant.[23] As a freelance operation, Fresco asserts that many of his inventions were unconditionally sold to his clients, thereby excluding his name from many of the patents.[44] During these years, Fresco encountered setbacks due to financial difficulties, for instance, resulting in the repossession of his lab equipment.
And this bores me anyway to talk about what credential a person have i wouldent want you to base your opinion based on what "Credientials" he/she/it has.
I'm not looking for credentials nor am I looking for random research he has done. I want his research specific to the ideas of a Resource Based Economy.
Everyone here has pointed out time and again flaws in his logic and the logic of the free world charter. So far all you've done is counter with rhetoric. Real economists do studies and experiments all the time to provide evidence that models and ideas in fact work. So, I'll ask again, what studies has Fresco done to show that his ideas will work in real life?
In 1948, unemployment was was 3.8%, in 1958 it was 6.8%, in 1968 it was 3.6%, in 1978 it was 6.1%, in 1988 it was 5.5%, in 1998 it was 4.5%, in 2008 it was 5.8%.
Unemployment is based off the current state of the economy (for the most part), which is why it's higher now then it was 4 years ago and how it's lower than it was in the early 1980s. Technology does not increase unemployment, it merely makes certain jobs obselete and creates new ones.
Technology is the main reason for unemployment. and jobs have been shifting into the service sector for decades and yes we created new waste of life jobs to try and mend the holes caused.
And our latest discovery is using goverment money to keep our citizens employed in order to maintain cyclical consumption to balance out the economy you noticed some intrest are at 0% ? even tho some economist stands around scatrching their head because they havent understood yet.
you have yet to show that Jacque Fresco has any credibility. All you have done is post his videos that contain zero research or evidence
To me the content of what people speak of are more important then what school they went to. He has crediability not only as an engineer but also with what friends he had one of them being Albert einstein..
Einstein did research and shared it, Fresco has not. See the difference?
Jacue fresco has done tremedous amount of research and done even more sharing then einstein. obviously in a diffrent field and not as publicly acclaimed which is no suprise considerng what he lectures about. I have actually met him and talked to him and his wife personaly.
Where is his research listed on wikipedia? All I see are books and articles - not research. For example if I look up his article "Designing the Future" that appeared in The Futurist (and I did) it's just ideas and pictures - not research.
I offer what i can find
Scientific Research Laboratories
Through the late 1940s and early 1950s, Fresco was director of Scientific Research Laboratories[28] at two locations. First located near Elysian Park in Los Angeles, it was operated with associates Eli Catran and Henry Giaretto. It later moved to a location in Los Feliz, near Hollywood,[42] where Fresco lived, lectured, and taught technical design,[11] meanwhile researching[43] and working on inventions as a freelance inventor and scientific consultant.[23] As a freelance operation, Fresco asserts that many of his inventions were unconditionally sold to his clients, thereby excluding his name from many of the patents.[44] During these years, Fresco encountered setbacks due to financial difficulties, for instance, resulting in the repossession of his lab equipment.
And this bores me anyway to talk about what credential a person have i wouldent want you to base your opinion based on what "Credientials" he/she/it has.
I'm not looking for credentials nor am I looking for random research he has done. I want his research specific to the ideas of a Resource Based Economy.
Everyone here has pointed out time and again flaws in his logic and the logic of the free world charter. So far all you've done is counter with rhetoric. Real economists do studies and experiments all the time to provide evidence that models and ideas in fact work. So, I'll ask again, what studies has Fresco done to show that his ideas will work in real life?
Technology does make some jobs obsolete, but like everyone else is saying, it creates new ones. Do you want us to trade in programmers, mechanical engineers, etc... for blacksmiths, fletchers, etc...? Should we stop progressing so people dont lose jobs that technology renders obsolete, or continue to allow ourselves to progress? Look at the unemployment rates, and look at the exponential growth in our technological advances. If technological progress and unemployment were directly linked, the exponential growth in technology rendering older jobs useless, should have exponentially decreased the workforce, and exponentially increased unemployment. This isnt true, so you are just wrong.
Our standard of living is higher, average income (taking inflation into account) is higher, our life expectancy is higher, our understanding of the world is higher, the list goes on. You have nothing to show for why we should make a MASSIVE overhaul of our system, when it has generally been leading us in the right direction. Sure its nowhere near perfect, but what youre proposing is a fairy tale not even worthy of consideration.
Edit* and again with your above post, you linked a book and said nothing else. Do you have any sort of an education? There is no way in hell you managed to get through even a single post secondary class. You have no concept of how to argue, debate, support or backup arguments.
EPT
