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On May 08 2012 03:56 DeliCiousVP wrote:
Is it unreasonable to want peace
Is it unreasonable to want to end starvation
Is it unreasonable to want to end thrist
Is it unreasonable to want equality
Is it unreasonable to want freedom
Is it unreasonable to want respect
Is it unreasonable to assume that things change
Is it unreasonable to assume that if we can destroy the world we can build it
Is it unreasonable to assume that people are afraid of change
Is it unreasonable to assume that if you treat people well, they treat you well back.
Is it unreasonable to not accept people being treated poorly because they dont have any money
Is it unreasonable to not accept people dying because they dont have any money
Is it unreasonable to not accept technology being halted because you cant make money of it
Is it unreasonable to not accept the world we live in as the last stage of our evoution
Is it unreasonable to try and find the most practical solutions to solve our problems?
is it unreasonable to assume that if the majority of the population knew how to solve our problem it would not exist?
It is not unreasonable to want all of the above, but it is unreasonable to think that simply eliminating money can achieve so. I can also say if you believe in God and pray, all of the above will be achieved in the future as well, and provide little to no proves besides video of idealists sprouting their ideal fantasy worlds. So does that mean we should all believe in God and pray every day?
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On May 08 2012 04:05 AbuseYouMerc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 04:04 Crushinator wrote:On May 08 2012 03:56 DeliCiousVP wrote:
Is it unreasonable to want peace
Is it unreasonable to want to end starvation
Is it unreasonable to want to end thrist
Is it unreasonable to want equality
Is it unreasonable to want freedom
Is it unreasonable to want respect
Is it unreasonable to assume that things change
Is it unreasonable to assume that if we can destroy the world we can build it
Is it unreasonable to assume that people are afraid of change
Is it unreasonable to assume that if you treat people well, they treat you well back.
Is it unreasonable to not accept people being treated poorly because they dont have any money
Is it unreasonable to not accept people dying because they dont have any money
Is it unreasonable to not accept technology being halted because you cant make money of it
Is it unreasonable to not accept the world we live in as the last stage of our evoution
Is it unreasonable to try and find the most practical solutions to solve our problems?
is it unreasonable to assume that if the majority of the population knew how to solve our problem it would not exist? Whenever someone asks difficult questions you seem to resort to this kind of empty rhetoric. I really wish you wouldn't Thats the only thing they can do because they have NO arguments.
To answer a question there will have to be a question first.
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On May 08 2012 04:09 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 04:05 AbuseYouMerc wrote:On May 08 2012 04:04 Crushinator wrote:On May 08 2012 03:56 DeliCiousVP wrote:
Is it unreasonable to want peace
Is it unreasonable to want to end starvation
Is it unreasonable to want to end thrist
Is it unreasonable to want equality
Is it unreasonable to want freedom
Is it unreasonable to want respect
Is it unreasonable to assume that things change
Is it unreasonable to assume that if we can destroy the world we can build it
Is it unreasonable to assume that people are afraid of change
Is it unreasonable to assume that if you treat people well, they treat you well back.
Is it unreasonable to not accept people being treated poorly because they dont have any money
Is it unreasonable to not accept people dying because they dont have any money
Is it unreasonable to not accept technology being halted because you cant make money of it
Is it unreasonable to not accept the world we live in as the last stage of our evoution
Is it unreasonable to try and find the most practical solutions to solve our problems?
is it unreasonable to assume that if the majority of the population knew how to solve our problem it would not exist? Whenever someone asks difficult questions you seem to resort to this kind of empty rhetoric. I really wish you wouldn't Thats the only thing they can do because they have NO arguments. To answer a question there will have to be a question first.
Hey this is exactly what religious people do to "prove" their religious beliefs.
"Can you prove that God created us?"
Answer: "Well how did the universe first came about then?"
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On May 08 2012 04:11 Fubi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 04:09 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 08 2012 04:05 AbuseYouMerc wrote:On May 08 2012 04:04 Crushinator wrote:On May 08 2012 03:56 DeliCiousVP wrote:
Is it unreasonable to want peace
Is it unreasonable to want to end starvation
Is it unreasonable to want to end thrist
Is it unreasonable to want equality
Is it unreasonable to want freedom
Is it unreasonable to want respect
Is it unreasonable to assume that things change
Is it unreasonable to assume that if we can destroy the world we can build it
Is it unreasonable to assume that people are afraid of change
Is it unreasonable to assume that if you treat people well, they treat you well back.
Is it unreasonable to not accept people being treated poorly because they dont have any money
Is it unreasonable to not accept people dying because they dont have any money
Is it unreasonable to not accept technology being halted because you cant make money of it
Is it unreasonable to not accept the world we live in as the last stage of our evoution
Is it unreasonable to try and find the most practical solutions to solve our problems?
is it unreasonable to assume that if the majority of the population knew how to solve our problem it would not exist? Whenever someone asks difficult questions you seem to resort to this kind of empty rhetoric. I really wish you wouldn't Thats the only thing they can do because they have NO arguments. To answer a question there will have to be a question first. Hey this is exactly what religious people do to "prove" their religious beliefs. "Can you prove that God created us?" Answer: "Well how did the universe first came about then?"
The things we talk about isent like god its not based on fiction so again ask a question instead of using empty rhetoric^^
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On May 08 2012 04:04 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 03:36 Crushinator wrote:On May 08 2012 03:27 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 08 2012 03:23 Crushinator wrote:On May 08 2012 03:13 DeliCiousVP wrote:What are you talking about? Einstein did most definitely go to school Yes i was thinking about another mathmatician. i was thinking about one of his qoutes imma find it. here it is "The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education" -Albert einstein was another one to i cant find it. Can you find me an economist that supports your worldview? Doesn't have to be a very prominent one, just a guy that has atleast been published in a journal. Can you find a reasonable person that dont? Well Milton Friedman is probably a reasonable person, by anyones measure, seeing as he won a Nobel Prize and all. He strongly advocated free markets and monetary policy. If I want to find out how he arrived at his conclusions I can read his work, his well-written, lucid, coherent, peer reviewed ideas. When I then have a good idea about the actual idea of it, I can attempt to tear it apart. For your side, all there seems to be is a vague youtube video made by some guy that promises an end to poverty and war. Without actually explaining the mechanics behind it. For all I know the mechanics behind it is the magic wand of a faery. And what do you offer in defence ? i offer information material studies why do you want me to send you a 1000 page book i send you whats available and in the most advanced format i can find. a "youtube" video can be 10 times as moving as a book. People cried what would incentivize people and boom a video shows up explaining everything about it showing a study that is related to the exact question they asks and even your "economist were there on the test". Yet people still bringing it up why? You wanna speak you wanna get answers then stop using the language of war and start using proper language. Example. There is no way this will ever happen - War language Hmm so exacly what would people do all day? - Communication
I just offered you a Nobel Prize winner in defence.
The video about incentives was indeed interesting, but I would never claim material rewards are the only incentive, and I have not done this in this thread. The video was not clearly in support of your ideas at all though, an outcome was also that for menial tasks people responded very well to monetary incentives.
I am not at all responsible for the language employed by other people.
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On May 08 2012 04:15 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 04:04 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 08 2012 03:36 Crushinator wrote:On May 08 2012 03:27 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 08 2012 03:23 Crushinator wrote:On May 08 2012 03:13 DeliCiousVP wrote:What are you talking about? Einstein did most definitely go to school Yes i was thinking about another mathmatician. i was thinking about one of his qoutes imma find it. here it is "The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education" -Albert einstein was another one to i cant find it. Can you find me an economist that supports your worldview? Doesn't have to be a very prominent one, just a guy that has atleast been published in a journal. Can you find a reasonable person that dont? Well Milton Friedman is probably a reasonable person, by anyones measure, seeing as he won a Nobel Prize and all. He strongly advocated free markets and monetary policy. If I want to find out how he arrived at his conclusions I can read his work, his well-written, lucid, coherent, peer reviewed ideas. When I then have a good idea about the actual idea of it, I can attempt to tear it apart. For your side, all there seems to be is a vague youtube video made by some guy that promises an end to poverty and war. Without actually explaining the mechanics behind it. For all I know the mechanics behind it is the magic wand of a faery. And what do you offer in defence ? i offer information material studies why do you want me to send you a 1000 page book i send you whats available and in the most advanced format i can find. a "youtube" video can be 10 times as moving as a book. People cried what would incentivize people and boom a video shows up explaining everything about it showing a study that is related to the exact question they asks and even your "economist were there on the test". Yet people still bringing it up why? You wanna speak you wanna get answers then stop using the language of war and start using proper language. Example. There is no way this will ever happen - War language Hmm so exacly what would people do all day? - Communication I just offered you a Nobel Prize winner in defence. The video about incentives was indeed interesting, but I would never claim material rewards are the only incentive, and I have not done this in this thread. The video was not clearly in support of your ideas at all though, an outcome was also that for menial tasks people responded very well to monetary incentives. I am not at all responsible for the language employed by other people.
menial task are the ones we wanna remove fast and first which is the ones monetary incentive work for.
Why would i wanna work in a sewer if i dont get nothing for it because everything is for free? Yes why would you lets work on removing that asap.
We are in the transition right now these are things that needs solving how do we create a sewer system that recquire minimal human maintainance or none?
Getting the Nobel prize shows that the person did progress in his field which is very possible. Im also not sure what relevance it has.
Lets not forget that Obama got the preemptive nobel peace prize, Then he ramped up drone bombing with the guise of getting out of iraq becuase lets face it he wouldnt be Re-elected if he didnt.
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On May 08 2012 04:15 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 04:11 Fubi wrote:On May 08 2012 04:09 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 08 2012 04:05 AbuseYouMerc wrote:On May 08 2012 04:04 Crushinator wrote:On May 08 2012 03:56 DeliCiousVP wrote:
Is it unreasonable to want peace
Is it unreasonable to want to end starvation
Is it unreasonable to want to end thrist
Is it unreasonable to want equality
Is it unreasonable to want freedom
Is it unreasonable to want respect
Is it unreasonable to assume that things change
Is it unreasonable to assume that if we can destroy the world we can build it
Is it unreasonable to assume that people are afraid of change
Is it unreasonable to assume that if you treat people well, they treat you well back.
Is it unreasonable to not accept people being treated poorly because they dont have any money
Is it unreasonable to not accept people dying because they dont have any money
Is it unreasonable to not accept technology being halted because you cant make money of it
Is it unreasonable to not accept the world we live in as the last stage of our evoution
Is it unreasonable to try and find the most practical solutions to solve our problems?
is it unreasonable to assume that if the majority of the population knew how to solve our problem it would not exist? Whenever someone asks difficult questions you seem to resort to this kind of empty rhetoric. I really wish you wouldn't Thats the only thing they can do because they have NO arguments. To answer a question there will have to be a question first. Hey this is exactly what religious people do to "prove" their religious beliefs. "Can you prove that God created us?" Answer: "Well how did the universe first came about then?" The things we talk about isent like god its not based on fiction so again ask a question instead of using empty rhetoric^^
Actually, it is based on fiction. You have not posted 1 piece of empirical evidence as to how you want to achieve your nonsensical overhaul of our system.
you have not shown how we can eliminate work
you have not shown how we can promote working without incentives
you have not shown how we will continue to advance
you have not shown how everyone will be capable of living at first world standards
you have not shown how everyone is going to be able to get the best of everything they want like you claim
you have not shown how you will get 100% of people to follow the system
you have not shown how to economically transform to your syetem
you have not shown how to politically transform to your system, you have not shown how to socially and culturally transform (people are quite different all over the world)
you have not shown how resources are infinite
you have not shown ANYTHING
See I can make a big list of things just like you. Your list is a list of ideals, which dont seem like bad ideals, however, this list is a list of realities that you must prove to be plausible and true, and you havent even proven or, for that matter, even posted 1 piece of evidence that shows how you can achieve ANY of it.
Compare this to science, capitalism would be the modern paradigm for a functioning prosperous society (not all systems are alike, but they are a version of capitalism). For there to be a paradigm shift, you need to find anomolys (problems) and you need to find MANY of them. You then need to find an alternative method that solves all of these issues, and overhauls the previous system. You need to provide so much information and evidence, that it is abundantly clear, that the NEW system is correct and the old system is false or incomplete.
The onus is not on the status quo to prove it is right, it is on the people wanting to shift the status quo to prove why their idea is better, and provide a comprehensive account as to how we move from our position to theirs. Your gigantic pile of nothing doesnt even warrent a response to a forum post on a website centered around gaming, nevermind any serious consideration in the real world. If you think you have shown ANYTHING, and I mean it, ANYTHING, to anyone that you would consider to be proof for your claims, you should seriously consider taking some time off and re-evaluating your outlook on the world. You have done nothing but spew idealistic blabber that has no roots in reality. Then you have the audacity to laugh and mock the people opposed to you, by calling us stupid, naive, brainwashed, young, etc... Every single poster that I have seen opposed you, has beat you in debate. You have not beat a single person, not one. You should go find some of this evidence you claim, or stop posting, because you are going nowhere. Harsh, but this isnt fantasy land, this is real life, and sometimes people need to be told to be quiet because they have nothing to offer.
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On May 08 2012 04:31 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 04:15 Crushinator wrote:On May 08 2012 04:04 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 08 2012 03:36 Crushinator wrote:On May 08 2012 03:27 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 08 2012 03:23 Crushinator wrote:On May 08 2012 03:13 DeliCiousVP wrote:What are you talking about? Einstein did most definitely go to school Yes i was thinking about another mathmatician. i was thinking about one of his qoutes imma find it. here it is "The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education" -Albert einstein was another one to i cant find it. Can you find me an economist that supports your worldview? Doesn't have to be a very prominent one, just a guy that has atleast been published in a journal. Can you find a reasonable person that dont? Well Milton Friedman is probably a reasonable person, by anyones measure, seeing as he won a Nobel Prize and all. He strongly advocated free markets and monetary policy. If I want to find out how he arrived at his conclusions I can read his work, his well-written, lucid, coherent, peer reviewed ideas. When I then have a good idea about the actual idea of it, I can attempt to tear it apart. For your side, all there seems to be is a vague youtube video made by some guy that promises an end to poverty and war. Without actually explaining the mechanics behind it. For all I know the mechanics behind it is the magic wand of a faery. And what do you offer in defence ? i offer information material studies why do you want me to send you a 1000 page book i send you whats available and in the most advanced format i can find. a "youtube" video can be 10 times as moving as a book. People cried what would incentivize people and boom a video shows up explaining everything about it showing a study that is related to the exact question they asks and even your "economist were there on the test". Yet people still bringing it up why? You wanna speak you wanna get answers then stop using the language of war and start using proper language. Example. There is no way this will ever happen - War language Hmm so exacly what would people do all day? - Communication I just offered you a Nobel Prize winner in defence. The video about incentives was indeed interesting, but I would never claim material rewards are the only incentive, and I have not done this in this thread. The video was not clearly in support of your ideas at all though, an outcome was also that for menial tasks people responded very well to monetary incentives. I am not at all responsible for the language employed by other people. menial task are the ones we wanna remove fast and first which is the ones monetary incentive work for. Why would i wanna work in a sewer if i dont get nothing for it because everything is for free? Yes why would you lets work on removing that asap. We are in the transition right now these are things that needs solving how do we create a sewer system that recquire minimal human maintainance or none? Getting the Nobel prize shows that the person did progress in his field which is very possible. Im also not sure what relevance it has. Lets not forget that Obama got the preemptive nobel peace prize, Then he ramped up drone bombing with the guise of getting out of iraq becuase lets face it he wouldnt be Re-elected if he didnt.
Lets not group the Peace Prize with the others, that thing is an embarrasement as far as I'm concerned. I'm glad you now atleast acknowledge that the technical difficutlies are not trivial. Which is different from the 'we can do it now' attitude in the movement's video, and the stance you have taken before. Maybe this thread isn't totally useless.
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I find their use of butterflies disturbing. I cannot support this due to butterflies.
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On May 08 2012 04:33 Focuspants wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 04:15 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 08 2012 04:11 Fubi wrote:On May 08 2012 04:09 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 08 2012 04:05 AbuseYouMerc wrote:On May 08 2012 04:04 Crushinator wrote:On May 08 2012 03:56 DeliCiousVP wrote:
Is it unreasonable to want peace
Is it unreasonable to want to end starvation
Is it unreasonable to want to end thrist
Is it unreasonable to want equality
Is it unreasonable to want freedom
Is it unreasonable to want respect
Is it unreasonable to assume that things change
Is it unreasonable to assume that if we can destroy the world we can build it
Is it unreasonable to assume that people are afraid of change
Is it unreasonable to assume that if you treat people well, they treat you well back.
Is it unreasonable to not accept people being treated poorly because they dont have any money
Is it unreasonable to not accept people dying because they dont have any money
Is it unreasonable to not accept technology being halted because you cant make money of it
Is it unreasonable to not accept the world we live in as the last stage of our evoution
Is it unreasonable to try and find the most practical solutions to solve our problems?
is it unreasonable to assume that if the majority of the population knew how to solve our problem it would not exist? Whenever someone asks difficult questions you seem to resort to this kind of empty rhetoric. I really wish you wouldn't Thats the only thing they can do because they have NO arguments. To answer a question there will have to be a question first. Hey this is exactly what religious people do to "prove" their religious beliefs. "Can you prove that God created us?" Answer: "Well how did the universe first came about then?" The things we talk about isent like god its not based on fiction so again ask a question instead of using empty rhetoric^^ Actually, it is based on fiction. You have not posted 1 piece of empirical evidence as to how you want to achieve your nonsensical overhaul of our system. you have not shown how we can eliminate work you have not shown how we can promote working without incentives you have not shown how we will continue to advance you have not shown how everyone will be capable of living at first world standards you have not shown how everyone is going to be able to get the best of everything they want like you claim you have not shown how you will get 100% of people to follow the system you have not shown how to economically transform to your syetem you have not shown how to politically transform to your system, you have not shown how to socially and culturally transform (people are quite different all over the world) you have not shown how resources are infinite you have not shown ANYTHING See I can make a big list of things just like you. Your list is a list of ideals, which dont seem like bad ideals, however, this list is a list of realities that you must prove to be plausible and true, and you havent even proven or, for that matter, even posted 1 piece of evidence that shows how you can achieve ANY of it. Compare this to science, capitalism would be the modern paradigm for a functioning prosperous society (not all systems are alike, but they are a version of capitalism). For there to be a paradigm shift, you need to find anomolys (problems) and you need to find MANY of them. You then need to find an alternative method that solves all of these issues, and overhauls the previous system. You need to provide so much information and evidence, that it is abundantly clear, that the NEW system is correct and the old system is false or incomplete. The onus is not on the status quo to prove it is right, it is on the people wanting to shift the status quo to prove why their idea is better, and provide a comprehensive account as to how we move from our position to theirs. Your gigantic pile of nothing doesnt even warrent a response to a forum post on a website centered around gaming, nevermind any serious consideration in the real world. If you think you have shown ANYTHING, and I mean it, ANYTHING, to anyone that you would consider to be proof for your claims, you should seriously consider taking some time off and re-evaluating your outlook on the world. You have done nothing but spew idealistic blabber that has no roots in reality. Then you have the audacity to laugh and mock the people opposed to you, by calling us stupid, naive, brainwashed, young, etc... Every single poster that I have seen opposed you, has beat you in debate. You have not beat a single person, not one. You should go find some of this evidence you claim, or stop posting, because you are going nowhere. Harsh, but this isnt fantasy land, this is real life, and sometimes people need to be told to be quiet because they have nothing to offer.
ask a question ive answered alot of these things already.
Lets not group the Peace Prize with the others, that thing is an embarrasement as far as I'm concerned. I'm glad you now atleast acknowledge that the technical difficutlies are not trivial. Which is different from the 'we can do it now' attitude in the movement's video, and the stance you have taken before. Maybe this thread isn't totally useless.
I wouldent put any of the noble prize in the same category. Whats possible always comes before whats probable its possible to do these things now its just not probable. That is why i support it to start making things possible and so should everyone these arent things that is gonna happen over night but it is worth working for.
![[image loading]](http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2rcdullaL1qhpi70o1_400.jpg)
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I believe we are feeding a troll.
Or we are trying to have a conversation with a very, very stupid person. Either way I recommend bailing out of this one. I sure am.
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On May 08 2012 04:42 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 04:33 Focuspants wrote:On May 08 2012 04:15 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 08 2012 04:11 Fubi wrote:On May 08 2012 04:09 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 08 2012 04:05 AbuseYouMerc wrote:On May 08 2012 04:04 Crushinator wrote:On May 08 2012 03:56 DeliCiousVP wrote:
Is it unreasonable to want peace
Is it unreasonable to want to end starvation
Is it unreasonable to want to end thrist
Is it unreasonable to want equality
Is it unreasonable to want freedom
Is it unreasonable to want respect
Is it unreasonable to assume that things change
Is it unreasonable to assume that if we can destroy the world we can build it
Is it unreasonable to assume that people are afraid of change
Is it unreasonable to assume that if you treat people well, they treat you well back.
Is it unreasonable to not accept people being treated poorly because they dont have any money
Is it unreasonable to not accept people dying because they dont have any money
Is it unreasonable to not accept technology being halted because you cant make money of it
Is it unreasonable to not accept the world we live in as the last stage of our evoution
Is it unreasonable to try and find the most practical solutions to solve our problems?
is it unreasonable to assume that if the majority of the population knew how to solve our problem it would not exist? Whenever someone asks difficult questions you seem to resort to this kind of empty rhetoric. I really wish you wouldn't Thats the only thing they can do because they have NO arguments. To answer a question there will have to be a question first. Hey this is exactly what religious people do to "prove" their religious beliefs. "Can you prove that God created us?" Answer: "Well how did the universe first came about then?" The things we talk about isent like god its not based on fiction so again ask a question instead of using empty rhetoric^^ Actually, it is based on fiction. You have not posted 1 piece of empirical evidence as to how you want to achieve your nonsensical overhaul of our system. you have not shown how we can eliminate work you have not shown how we can promote working without incentives you have not shown how we will continue to advance you have not shown how everyone will be capable of living at first world standards you have not shown how everyone is going to be able to get the best of everything they want like you claim you have not shown how you will get 100% of people to follow the system you have not shown how to economically transform to your syetem you have not shown how to politically transform to your system, you have not shown how to socially and culturally transform (people are quite different all over the world) you have not shown how resources are infinite you have not shown ANYTHING See I can make a big list of things just like you. Your list is a list of ideals, which dont seem like bad ideals, however, this list is a list of realities that you must prove to be plausible and true, and you havent even proven or, for that matter, even posted 1 piece of evidence that shows how you can achieve ANY of it. Compare this to science, capitalism would be the modern paradigm for a functioning prosperous society (not all systems are alike, but they are a version of capitalism). For there to be a paradigm shift, you need to find anomolys (problems) and you need to find MANY of them. You then need to find an alternative method that solves all of these issues, and overhauls the previous system. You need to provide so much information and evidence, that it is abundantly clear, that the NEW system is correct and the old system is false or incomplete. The onus is not on the status quo to prove it is right, it is on the people wanting to shift the status quo to prove why their idea is better, and provide a comprehensive account as to how we move from our position to theirs. Your gigantic pile of nothing doesnt even warrent a response to a forum post on a website centered around gaming, nevermind any serious consideration in the real world. If you think you have shown ANYTHING, and I mean it, ANYTHING, to anyone that you would consider to be proof for your claims, you should seriously consider taking some time off and re-evaluating your outlook on the world. You have done nothing but spew idealistic blabber that has no roots in reality. Then you have the audacity to laugh and mock the people opposed to you, by calling us stupid, naive, brainwashed, young, etc... Every single poster that I have seen opposed you, has beat you in debate. You have not beat a single person, not one. You should go find some of this evidence you claim, or stop posting, because you are going nowhere. Harsh, but this isnt fantasy land, this is real life, and sometimes people need to be told to be quiet because they have nothing to offer. ask a question ive answered alot of these things already.
OK, can you please post one piece of true empirical evidence, as to how we are going to transition from modern day society, to your ficticious society, politically, economically, socially, culturally, etc...?
Can you post one piece of evidence showing everyone on earth can live at prime first world standards, and not destroy our planet?
Can you show 1 piece of evidence showing resources are infinite?
Can you post one piece of evidence showing how you are going to efficiently distribute resources, and have nobody seek to gain more than their fair share, even those with the power to oversee this process? Maybe show us one example of a successful thriving society that functions off this model?
Hell, can you show me 1 piece of evidence, not rhetoric, addressing ANY of the problems in transitioning into your silly utopian society?
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On May 08 2012 04:53 Focuspants wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 04:42 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 08 2012 04:33 Focuspants wrote:On May 08 2012 04:15 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 08 2012 04:11 Fubi wrote:On May 08 2012 04:09 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 08 2012 04:05 AbuseYouMerc wrote:On May 08 2012 04:04 Crushinator wrote:On May 08 2012 03:56 DeliCiousVP wrote:
Is it unreasonable to want peace
Is it unreasonable to want to end starvation
Is it unreasonable to want to end thrist
Is it unreasonable to want equality
Is it unreasonable to want freedom
Is it unreasonable to want respect
Is it unreasonable to assume that things change
Is it unreasonable to assume that if we can destroy the world we can build it
Is it unreasonable to assume that people are afraid of change
Is it unreasonable to assume that if you treat people well, they treat you well back.
Is it unreasonable to not accept people being treated poorly because they dont have any money
Is it unreasonable to not accept people dying because they dont have any money
Is it unreasonable to not accept technology being halted because you cant make money of it
Is it unreasonable to not accept the world we live in as the last stage of our evoution
Is it unreasonable to try and find the most practical solutions to solve our problems?
is it unreasonable to assume that if the majority of the population knew how to solve our problem it would not exist? Whenever someone asks difficult questions you seem to resort to this kind of empty rhetoric. I really wish you wouldn't Thats the only thing they can do because they have NO arguments. To answer a question there will have to be a question first. Hey this is exactly what religious people do to "prove" their religious beliefs. "Can you prove that God created us?" Answer: "Well how did the universe first came about then?" The things we talk about isent like god its not based on fiction so again ask a question instead of using empty rhetoric^^ Actually, it is based on fiction. You have not posted 1 piece of empirical evidence as to how you want to achieve your nonsensical overhaul of our system. you have not shown how we can eliminate work you have not shown how we can promote working without incentives you have not shown how we will continue to advance you have not shown how everyone will be capable of living at first world standards you have not shown how everyone is going to be able to get the best of everything they want like you claim you have not shown how you will get 100% of people to follow the system you have not shown how to economically transform to your syetem you have not shown how to politically transform to your system, you have not shown how to socially and culturally transform (people are quite different all over the world) you have not shown how resources are infinite you have not shown ANYTHING See I can make a big list of things just like you. Your list is a list of ideals, which dont seem like bad ideals, however, this list is a list of realities that you must prove to be plausible and true, and you havent even proven or, for that matter, even posted 1 piece of evidence that shows how you can achieve ANY of it. Compare this to science, capitalism would be the modern paradigm for a functioning prosperous society (not all systems are alike, but they are a version of capitalism). For there to be a paradigm shift, you need to find anomolys (problems) and you need to find MANY of them. You then need to find an alternative method that solves all of these issues, and overhauls the previous system. You need to provide so much information and evidence, that it is abundantly clear, that the NEW system is correct and the old system is false or incomplete. The onus is not on the status quo to prove it is right, it is on the people wanting to shift the status quo to prove why their idea is better, and provide a comprehensive account as to how we move from our position to theirs. Your gigantic pile of nothing doesnt even warrent a response to a forum post on a website centered around gaming, nevermind any serious consideration in the real world. If you think you have shown ANYTHING, and I mean it, ANYTHING, to anyone that you would consider to be proof for your claims, you should seriously consider taking some time off and re-evaluating your outlook on the world. You have done nothing but spew idealistic blabber that has no roots in reality. Then you have the audacity to laugh and mock the people opposed to you, by calling us stupid, naive, brainwashed, young, etc... Every single poster that I have seen opposed you, has beat you in debate. You have not beat a single person, not one. You should go find some of this evidence you claim, or stop posting, because you are going nowhere. Harsh, but this isnt fantasy land, this is real life, and sometimes people need to be told to be quiet because they have nothing to offer. ask a question ive answered alot of these things already. Can you show 1 piece of evidence showing resources are infinite?
I do not realy answer statements like this, i can never prove resources are infinite because to the best of my knowledge no resource are infinite not even time. i have never said we have infinite resources.
I have also answered another person who said the same thing and the answer i gave to him is abundant and infinite is not the same thing. if you want me to respond and answer and you wanna debunk what i say which is valid you should do that you need to first ask a question that is not a statement or negatively loaded thus useless to answer.
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Yeah, no, this is a perfect idea, it'll definitely work.
I mean, think of all the things that similarly socialist/communist/whatever societies have given the world. And hell, they were only implementing a small piece of the dreams of this glorious complete waste of fucking time.
Anyone stupid enough to think this is worth even considering, even looking at, thinking its even worth the time to argue is embarrassing themselves and insulting everyone around them.
I've seen some attempts, but no real answers. Why do I go to work? Let's not pretend for a moment that automation can accomplish everything, we barely like talking to robots over the phone, nevermind having them do everything for us. So why do I try at all?. Why the hell don't I sit in front of my computer all day and play Starcraft II? What keeps me from doing this in this nonsensical utopia? The best answer you could give me is one of two things:
Either:
A: Want to do to for the good of humanity, to which I reply HAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAH and then have a brain aneurysm from your nonsense.
B: Things like SC2 are a waste and can't exist in this utopia, since that's resources that could be spent feeding people. To which I reply, "You'll probably have leftover resources; you should budget for everyone fucking killing themselves by 25."
The reason the automation even exists at all is because people invented it so they COULD GET PAID. How do you plan to get the machines, robots, factories, automation for the utopia? Because its your lynchpin, without that, the stupid argument begins to look even worse, and that's where the dark side of it is. You have to steal it. You have to seize it, and if they try to stop you, you have to put them in jail. You have to hurt them, kill them.
If the creators, the producers, those with the ability to do the work your utopia requires refuse to cooperate...You have to enslave them, for the good of the majority, of course.
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On May 08 2012 05:01 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 04:53 Focuspants wrote:On May 08 2012 04:42 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 08 2012 04:33 Focuspants wrote:On May 08 2012 04:15 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 08 2012 04:11 Fubi wrote:On May 08 2012 04:09 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 08 2012 04:05 AbuseYouMerc wrote:On May 08 2012 04:04 Crushinator wrote:On May 08 2012 03:56 DeliCiousVP wrote:
Is it unreasonable to want peace
Is it unreasonable to want to end starvation
Is it unreasonable to want to end thrist
Is it unreasonable to want equality
Is it unreasonable to want freedom
Is it unreasonable to want respect
Is it unreasonable to assume that things change
Is it unreasonable to assume that if we can destroy the world we can build it
Is it unreasonable to assume that people are afraid of change
Is it unreasonable to assume that if you treat people well, they treat you well back.
Is it unreasonable to not accept people being treated poorly because they dont have any money
Is it unreasonable to not accept people dying because they dont have any money
Is it unreasonable to not accept technology being halted because you cant make money of it
Is it unreasonable to not accept the world we live in as the last stage of our evoution
Is it unreasonable to try and find the most practical solutions to solve our problems?
is it unreasonable to assume that if the majority of the population knew how to solve our problem it would not exist? Whenever someone asks difficult questions you seem to resort to this kind of empty rhetoric. I really wish you wouldn't Thats the only thing they can do because they have NO arguments. To answer a question there will have to be a question first. Hey this is exactly what religious people do to "prove" their religious beliefs. "Can you prove that God created us?" Answer: "Well how did the universe first came about then?" The things we talk about isent like god its not based on fiction so again ask a question instead of using empty rhetoric^^ Actually, it is based on fiction. You have not posted 1 piece of empirical evidence as to how you want to achieve your nonsensical overhaul of our system. you have not shown how we can eliminate work you have not shown how we can promote working without incentives you have not shown how we will continue to advance you have not shown how everyone will be capable of living at first world standards you have not shown how everyone is going to be able to get the best of everything they want like you claim you have not shown how you will get 100% of people to follow the system you have not shown how to economically transform to your syetem you have not shown how to politically transform to your system, you have not shown how to socially and culturally transform (people are quite different all over the world) you have not shown how resources are infinite you have not shown ANYTHING See I can make a big list of things just like you. Your list is a list of ideals, which dont seem like bad ideals, however, this list is a list of realities that you must prove to be plausible and true, and you havent even proven or, for that matter, even posted 1 piece of evidence that shows how you can achieve ANY of it. Compare this to science, capitalism would be the modern paradigm for a functioning prosperous society (not all systems are alike, but they are a version of capitalism). For there to be a paradigm shift, you need to find anomolys (problems) and you need to find MANY of them. You then need to find an alternative method that solves all of these issues, and overhauls the previous system. You need to provide so much information and evidence, that it is abundantly clear, that the NEW system is correct and the old system is false or incomplete. The onus is not on the status quo to prove it is right, it is on the people wanting to shift the status quo to prove why their idea is better, and provide a comprehensive account as to how we move from our position to theirs. Your gigantic pile of nothing doesnt even warrent a response to a forum post on a website centered around gaming, nevermind any serious consideration in the real world. If you think you have shown ANYTHING, and I mean it, ANYTHING, to anyone that you would consider to be proof for your claims, you should seriously consider taking some time off and re-evaluating your outlook on the world. You have done nothing but spew idealistic blabber that has no roots in reality. Then you have the audacity to laugh and mock the people opposed to you, by calling us stupid, naive, brainwashed, young, etc... Every single poster that I have seen opposed you, has beat you in debate. You have not beat a single person, not one. You should go find some of this evidence you claim, or stop posting, because you are going nowhere. Harsh, but this isnt fantasy land, this is real life, and sometimes people need to be told to be quiet because they have nothing to offer. ask a question ive answered alot of these things already. Can you show 1 piece of evidence showing resources are infinite? I do not realy answer statements like this, i can never prove resources are infinite because to the best of my knowledge no resource are infinite not even time. i have never said we have infinite resources. I have also answered another person who said the same thing and the answer i gave to him is abundant and infinite is not the same thing. if you want me to respond and answer and you wanna debunk what i say which is valid you should do that you need to first ask a question that is not a statement or negatively loaded thus useless to answer.
You realize abundant is a relative term right? Some resources might seem abundant rite NOW, but you have to realize, population grows exponentially, not linearly. That means these resources will have to grow exponentially as well. You have yet to prove that resources can grow exponentially. Even solar energy, while it seems infinite, still requires solar panels to be constructed (and those require resources), as well as space to put them. Those things are not infinite. You might argue it's abundant now, but can you say the same when the population reaches 100 billion and our energy consumption is 100 times of what it is now?
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On May 08 2012 05:06 Felnarion wrote:
Why do I go to work? Let's not pretend for a moment that automation can accomplish everything.
It is a transition thing that is already happening. every year automation takes more jobs and sooner rather then later people will understand that this is a good thing as it free them from motomous labour. it wont be evenly distrubuted some countries will automate more then others at firsts then it becomes commen sense.
The way you think today is not the way you will think tomorow.
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DeliCiousVP you have yet to show that Jacque Fresco has any credibility. All you have done is post his videos that contain zero research or evidence.
There are peer reviewed academic journals that contain millions of hours of PhD level research in support of market based economies. Where is Jacque Fresco's research that shows that his ideas will work, at all, or even better?
If his research does not exist than all you are doing is supporting science fiction as though it were reality.
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On May 08 2012 05:01 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 04:53 Focuspants wrote:On May 08 2012 04:42 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 08 2012 04:33 Focuspants wrote:On May 08 2012 04:15 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 08 2012 04:11 Fubi wrote:On May 08 2012 04:09 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 08 2012 04:05 AbuseYouMerc wrote:On May 08 2012 04:04 Crushinator wrote:On May 08 2012 03:56 DeliCiousVP wrote:
Is it unreasonable to want peace
Is it unreasonable to want to end starvation
Is it unreasonable to want to end thrist
Is it unreasonable to want equality
Is it unreasonable to want freedom
Is it unreasonable to want respect
Is it unreasonable to assume that things change
Is it unreasonable to assume that if we can destroy the world we can build it
Is it unreasonable to assume that people are afraid of change
Is it unreasonable to assume that if you treat people well, they treat you well back.
Is it unreasonable to not accept people being treated poorly because they dont have any money
Is it unreasonable to not accept people dying because they dont have any money
Is it unreasonable to not accept technology being halted because you cant make money of it
Is it unreasonable to not accept the world we live in as the last stage of our evoution
Is it unreasonable to try and find the most practical solutions to solve our problems?
is it unreasonable to assume that if the majority of the population knew how to solve our problem it would not exist? Whenever someone asks difficult questions you seem to resort to this kind of empty rhetoric. I really wish you wouldn't Thats the only thing they can do because they have NO arguments. To answer a question there will have to be a question first. Hey this is exactly what religious people do to "prove" their religious beliefs. "Can you prove that God created us?" Answer: "Well how did the universe first came about then?" The things we talk about isent like god its not based on fiction so again ask a question instead of using empty rhetoric^^ Actually, it is based on fiction. You have not posted 1 piece of empirical evidence as to how you want to achieve your nonsensical overhaul of our system. you have not shown how we can eliminate work you have not shown how we can promote working without incentives you have not shown how we will continue to advance you have not shown how everyone will be capable of living at first world standards you have not shown how everyone is going to be able to get the best of everything they want like you claim you have not shown how you will get 100% of people to follow the system you have not shown how to economically transform to your syetem you have not shown how to politically transform to your system, you have not shown how to socially and culturally transform (people are quite different all over the world) you have not shown how resources are infinite you have not shown ANYTHING See I can make a big list of things just like you. Your list is a list of ideals, which dont seem like bad ideals, however, this list is a list of realities that you must prove to be plausible and true, and you havent even proven or, for that matter, even posted 1 piece of evidence that shows how you can achieve ANY of it. Compare this to science, capitalism would be the modern paradigm for a functioning prosperous society (not all systems are alike, but they are a version of capitalism). For there to be a paradigm shift, you need to find anomolys (problems) and you need to find MANY of them. You then need to find an alternative method that solves all of these issues, and overhauls the previous system. You need to provide so much information and evidence, that it is abundantly clear, that the NEW system is correct and the old system is false or incomplete. The onus is not on the status quo to prove it is right, it is on the people wanting to shift the status quo to prove why their idea is better, and provide a comprehensive account as to how we move from our position to theirs. Your gigantic pile of nothing doesnt even warrent a response to a forum post on a website centered around gaming, nevermind any serious consideration in the real world. If you think you have shown ANYTHING, and I mean it, ANYTHING, to anyone that you would consider to be proof for your claims, you should seriously consider taking some time off and re-evaluating your outlook on the world. You have done nothing but spew idealistic blabber that has no roots in reality. Then you have the audacity to laugh and mock the people opposed to you, by calling us stupid, naive, brainwashed, young, etc... Every single poster that I have seen opposed you, has beat you in debate. You have not beat a single person, not one. You should go find some of this evidence you claim, or stop posting, because you are going nowhere. Harsh, but this isnt fantasy land, this is real life, and sometimes people need to be told to be quiet because they have nothing to offer. ask a question ive answered alot of these things already. Can you show 1 piece of evidence showing resources are infinite? I do not realy answer statements like this, i can never prove resources are infinite because to the best of my knowledge no resource are infinite not even time. i have never said we have infinite resources. I have also answered another person who said the same thing and the answer i gave to him is abundant and infinite is not the same thing. if you want me to respond and answer and you wanna debunk what i say which is valid you should do that you need to first ask a question that is not a statement or negatively loaded thus useless to answer.
I would like to say youre a master of deflection, but youre not even good at that. Pick any of the other questions then please. The other ones seem to be valid to you since you didnt get nitpicky about them. I am happily waiting for a response.
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On May 08 2012 05:14 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 05:06 Felnarion wrote:
Why do I go to work? Let's not pretend for a moment that automation can accomplish everything. It is a transition thing that is already happening. every year automation takes more jobs and sooner rather then later people will understand that this is a good thing as it free them from motomous labour. it wont be evenly distrubuted some countries will automate more then others at firsts then it becomes commen sense. The way you think today is not the way you will think tomorow.
It takes away more job but it also creates more job.
As someone gave a good example earlier, invention of auto-mobile might have gotten rid of jobs of horse-pulled wagons, but it created jobs for taxi and public transits. Automation of farming might of gotten rid of jobs for a lot of farmers, but it also made other industries like business bloom.
In fact, you have yet to prove that there is a relationship between technology and unemployment rate.
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On May 08 2012 05:14 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 05:06 Felnarion wrote:
Why do I go to work? Let's not pretend for a moment that automation can accomplish everything. It is a transition thing that is already happening. every year automation takes more jobs and sooner rather then later people will understand that this is a good thing as it free them from motomous labour. it wont be evenly distrubuted some countries will automate more then others at firsts then it becomes commen sense. The way you think today is not the way you will think tomorow.
....
Seriously?
Why the hell do you think people will build the robots? Design new ones? For fun? To exercise their minds? Of course not, don't be stupid. For everyone one engineer who does it for the lols, 1000 don't, they do it for the cash. No, no one will feel the need to be an engineer when they will do twice the work, 100 times the effort, and way more time studying than someone who just sits on their ass. Meanwhile? Guy on his ass? Eating the same shitty food, doing the same things, living in the same abode as the engineer. WHY DO I BECOME AN ENGINEER?
Because the idea that robots can just "do everything" is freaking ridiculous. There's no robot that can diagnose disease, there's no robot that can even design other robots. Nevermind where in the hell you come up with enough metal, engineers, and resources to design machinery that replaces 3-4 billion people's work.
Why do I become an engineer?
Who makes the decisions? I don't mean at the top level, we know you want some technocrats doing that, I mean the everyday decisions. Who decides WHAT the machines produces? Who decides what medicine a sick person receives?
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EPT
