|
On May 06 2012 10:48 BlindKill wrote:
xeo1 do post a poll on the front page, I would like to know the TL consensus.
Also, heres how FWC answers "But there will be no motivation to work.. or do anything!" in the FAQs:
"Money is not an incentive to work, it is an obligation to earn. True incentives to work are passion, flair, helping out, meeting people, wanting to learn. Once money is removed from our lives, people will work with these incentives only, and be far happier and more productive as a result.
As to having nothing to do, that's up to the individual. In a free world, being free of work and financial constraints would enable you to fulfil your dreams in ways that you can only imagine now. For instance, you could travel anywhere, anytime; pursue your hobby or passion without cost constraints; contribute your skills or talents into the community; spend more time with your family, etc."
I can think of quite a few jobs that the first paragraphs would not apply.
This is exactly it though. Personally I wouldn't work whatsoever; I would just go scuba-diving/hang gliding/play SC/whatever all day long since it's free. And there are a ton of people who would do the exact same thing.
|
On May 06 2012 10:43 Focuspants wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 03:56 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 06 2012 03:29 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 06 2012 03:02 DeathCompany wrote:
Mmmmmm so... what ever i am entitled to and can receive... the homeless man down the block who doesnt work or anything. gets aswell? You think u work hard ? Your think you work harder then a 16 hour sweatshop laborer that works for less then a dollar? You are siphoning of the stockmarket exploiting the rest of the world. If that hobo isen't entitled to anything your entitled to half of a dollar a day. We all live on welfare from our countries whether we work or not. The sweatshop laborer doesn't get paid as much because he's not as productive. Now, it's not his fault, he DOES work hard, but he doesn't have the productive infrastructure (machines, transportation, etc.) that western workers have. This problem gets solved over time by the capital markets and international corporations. Since workers in foreign countries are cheaper it is more profitable to make stuff there. That profit motive entices businesses to invest in those countries. Over time those investments make the workers more productive and their wages rise. That's not just theory. That's what has happened and continues to happen to this day and it has uplifted hundred of millions of people out of grinding absolute poverty. You do realize we cant support that sort of planet right? The amount of consumtion, pollution, waste, etc... that most develop nations produce, if rivaled by all other nations, would cause us to deplete our resources and destroy what semblance of an environment we have left. We wouldnt have enough food, enough anything really to sustain 7 billion people on a north american lifestyle. There need to be poor in order for there to be rich. Thats just the way it is. We can work together and stifle our advancement, or we can help a little here and there, and continue to advance. You cant really do both.
We are depleting our planet now faster then ever. The captilism experience is drawing to a close and our planet is scared and have suffered alot for it.
Rich vs Poor is over we have enough resources to share with everyone to live a very comftorable lfiestyle,technology exist today where we can grow 100 acres of food worth on 1 acre.
It is imoral illogical and inhumane to watch people 1 billion people starve to death while we white people talk about conversion rates freedom and how capitalism is the last goverment form in our evolution as humans.
|
It is imoral illogical and inhumane to watch people 1 billion people starve to death while we white people talk about conversion rates freedom
Why?
By what system of morality. What are its rules. By mine, its ok.
|
It is imoral illogical and inhumane to watch people 1 billion people starve to death while we white people talk about conversion rates freedom and how capitalism is the last goverment form in our evolution as humans.
You make a nice claim, but you do not support it with any evidence. What is the solution you suggest?
Also you admit there we are depleting our planets scarce resources. The main flaw in this whole free world charter plan.
|
On May 06 2012 10:56 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 10:43 Focuspants wrote:On May 06 2012 03:56 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 06 2012 03:29 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 06 2012 03:02 DeathCompany wrote:
Mmmmmm so... what ever i am entitled to and can receive... the homeless man down the block who doesnt work or anything. gets aswell? You think u work hard ? Your think you work harder then a 16 hour sweatshop laborer that works for less then a dollar? You are siphoning of the stockmarket exploiting the rest of the world. If that hobo isen't entitled to anything your entitled to half of a dollar a day. We all live on welfare from our countries whether we work or not. The sweatshop laborer doesn't get paid as much because he's not as productive. Now, it's not his fault, he DOES work hard, but he doesn't have the productive infrastructure (machines, transportation, etc.) that western workers have. This problem gets solved over time by the capital markets and international corporations. Since workers in foreign countries are cheaper it is more profitable to make stuff there. That profit motive entices businesses to invest in those countries. Over time those investments make the workers more productive and their wages rise. That's not just theory. That's what has happened and continues to happen to this day and it has uplifted hundred of millions of people out of grinding absolute poverty. You do realize we cant support that sort of planet right? The amount of consumtion, pollution, waste, etc... that most develop nations produce, if rivaled by all other nations, would cause us to deplete our resources and destroy what semblance of an environment we have left. We wouldnt have enough food, enough anything really to sustain 7 billion people on a north american lifestyle. There need to be poor in order for there to be rich. Thats just the way it is. We can work together and stifle our advancement, or we can help a little here and there, and continue to advance. You cant really do both. We are depleting our planet now faster then ever. The captilism experience is drawing to a close and our planet is scared and have suffered alot for it. Rich vs Poor is over we have enough resources to share with everyone to live a very comftorable lfiestyle,technology exist today where we can grow 100 acres of food worth on 1 acre. It is imoral illogical and inhumane to watch people 1 billion people starve to death while we white people talk about conversion rates freedom and how capitalism is the last goverment form in our evolution as humans.
You are insane. You can't argue on one hand that capitalism is depleting the Earth too fast and then say that on the other hand your resource economy will produce MORE.
Your magic technology to do that DOES NOT EXIST!
Don't say solar power. It's more expensive. If you go down that road you will produce less for everyone. You can't have it both ways...
No one is letting 1 billion people starve to death. You are a fool to even suggest such a thing!
|
On May 06 2012 10:56 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 10:43 Focuspants wrote:On May 06 2012 03:56 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 06 2012 03:29 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 06 2012 03:02 DeathCompany wrote:
Mmmmmm so... what ever i am entitled to and can receive... the homeless man down the block who doesnt work or anything. gets aswell? You think u work hard ? Your think you work harder then a 16 hour sweatshop laborer that works for less then a dollar? You are siphoning of the stockmarket exploiting the rest of the world. If that hobo isen't entitled to anything your entitled to half of a dollar a day. We all live on welfare from our countries whether we work or not. The sweatshop laborer doesn't get paid as much because he's not as productive. Now, it's not his fault, he DOES work hard, but he doesn't have the productive infrastructure (machines, transportation, etc.) that western workers have. This problem gets solved over time by the capital markets and international corporations. Since workers in foreign countries are cheaper it is more profitable to make stuff there. That profit motive entices businesses to invest in those countries. Over time those investments make the workers more productive and their wages rise. That's not just theory. That's what has happened and continues to happen to this day and it has uplifted hundred of millions of people out of grinding absolute poverty. You do realize we cant support that sort of planet right? The amount of consumtion, pollution, waste, etc... that most develop nations produce, if rivaled by all other nations, would cause us to deplete our resources and destroy what semblance of an environment we have left. We wouldnt have enough food, enough anything really to sustain 7 billion people on a north american lifestyle. There need to be poor in order for there to be rich. Thats just the way it is. We can work together and stifle our advancement, or we can help a little here and there, and continue to advance. You cant really do both. We are depleting our planet now faster then ever. The captilism experience is drawing to a close and our planet is scared and have suffered alot for it. Rich vs Poor is over we have enough resources to share with everyone to live a very comftorable lfiestyle,technology exist today where we can grow 100 acres of food worth on 1 acre. It is imoral illogical and inhumane to watch people 1 billion people starve to death while we white people talk about conversion rates freedom and how capitalism is the last goverment form in our evolution as humans.
Yeah, it's pretty disgusting how someone like you could own and be posting on a computer well people are starving.
|
You can't sustain the planet if everyone lived like the developed nations live. Period. There is no debate about this. We would have to go backward and give up much of what we now own or have the capability to do, to meet with the extremely poor at some centralized point. We will never do this. If you want to call me selfish for not wanting to give up the life I have now to live at a lower standard in the interest of "fairness", go for it. I think the most important part of being human, is discovering the unknown. Pushing our knowledge, our understanding and our borders. I want to see what human minds can create and find. Sacrificing that so that everyone on earth can lead an identical mediocre-shit life is not worth losing that.
If I was told money is gone, everything is free, do what you want! I wouldnt spend a single second working. I would travel, I would play golf every day, etc... Why would you want to fly planes full of people around, when you can be flown around? Why would you want to serve people on a plane, when you can be served, and then enjoy the location you land in? Why would you wait tables at a restaurant, when you can go around and eat at every restaurant on the planet for free? You are completely and totally out to lunch if you think we can operate a planet which will advance, without any incentive to do so. Passion only goes so far. very few people have a passion so great for their job, that they would choose to do it anyway. I would say less than 1% of people work purely for the love of what they do. More than 99% of people would rather just have fun, but cant do that, without contributing to society, and getting a return to do so. Thats the way it is, and thats the way it should be to guarantee forward progress.
On May 06 2012 10:56 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 10:43 Focuspants wrote:On May 06 2012 03:56 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 06 2012 03:29 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 06 2012 03:02 DeathCompany wrote:
Mmmmmm so... what ever i am entitled to and can receive... the homeless man down the block who doesnt work or anything. gets aswell? You think u work hard ? Your think you work harder then a 16 hour sweatshop laborer that works for less then a dollar? You are siphoning of the stockmarket exploiting the rest of the world. If that hobo isen't entitled to anything your entitled to half of a dollar a day. We all live on welfare from our countries whether we work or not. The sweatshop laborer doesn't get paid as much because he's not as productive. Now, it's not his fault, he DOES work hard, but he doesn't have the productive infrastructure (machines, transportation, etc.) that western workers have. This problem gets solved over time by the capital markets and international corporations. Since workers in foreign countries are cheaper it is more profitable to make stuff there. That profit motive entices businesses to invest in those countries. Over time those investments make the workers more productive and their wages rise. That's not just theory. That's what has happened and continues to happen to this day and it has uplifted hundred of millions of people out of grinding absolute poverty. You do realize we cant support that sort of planet right? The amount of consumtion, pollution, waste, etc... that most develop nations produce, if rivaled by all other nations, would cause us to deplete our resources and destroy what semblance of an environment we have left. We wouldnt have enough food, enough anything really to sustain 7 billion people on a north american lifestyle. There need to be poor in order for there to be rich. Thats just the way it is. We can work together and stifle our advancement, or we can help a little here and there, and continue to advance. You cant really do both. We are depleting our planet now faster then ever. The captilism experience is drawing to a close and our planet is scared and have suffered alot for it. Rich vs Poor is over we have enough resources to share with everyone to live a very comftorable lfiestyle,technology exist today where we can grow 100 acres of food worth on 1 acre. It is imoral illogical and inhumane to watch people 1 billion people starve to death while we white people talk about conversion rates freedom and how capitalism is the last goverment form in our evolution as humans.
|
On May 06 2012 10:07 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 09:55 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 06 2012 09:51 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 05 2012 05:26 Talin wrote:On May 05 2012 05:07 dAPhREAk wrote:
sounds good to me. i want to play video games all day and have others provide my basic necessities. Do you really want to play video games all day? Or is wanting to play video games all day actually an urge for escapism from what is the current reality? Perhaps if you did not live in a shithole of a society - which pretty much all of the societies today are - that by design makes any rational human miserable and stressed, you would in fact not want to play video games all day because that's a boring and life-draining activity. Do you think people who lock themselves in and play games or watch television all day actually enjoy their life and would rather not do something else with it? Think again. People have an inherent motivation to learn, work and create things - and this motivation is not just mere survival. The antagonistic view of labor and the desire to stop working comes entirely from the - in vast majority of cases very justified - feeling of your labor being exploited and treated unfairly and the hostile working environments this leads to. Do you think people dread going to work in the morning because the actual work is too physically or mentally difficult for them, or because of this hostile environment bred entirely by following economic dogmas? People can't not work. It's in our nature to want to work. But it is also in our nature to resist being exploited or forced to do things that exploit others. I will let Talins comment explain it for me. Profit based incentive is a myth we all have many intrest if were allowed to explore them its the society thats inefficent and slow. We as gamers can problem solve at a higher pace if school is boring its because its not stimulating enough and needs to be improved. And the end goal of all of this is FREEDOM without a price tag. my buddy is a teacher in the UK and he said "Grades are just an excuse for bad teachers to fail their students". So who is going to work in the sewers? Magic robots that have yet to be invented or people that have a real passion for sewer work? The bottom line is that people need the money incentive to work because the work that needs to be done is not where people's passion lies. Finaly a real valid POINT yes its a transition nobody wants to work in the sewers, Machines can take over 99% of the jobs that we know of so far, And obviously you would need enginners to oversee the machines but a normal citizen could be educated enough to detect errors and either find the infromation recquired to fix it himself or get help. The problem is not so much what do we do with the people who has to work its how do we rehiblitate people who has known nothing but work/hardwork their whole life? We have 600 million people unemployed all over the world and the rate of unemployment will rise due to technical unemployment and societies today are desperatly creating well fare program to keep their citizen employed to circulate the economy. The Occupy movement is a great example of shifting values in the public their not quite there yet but their getting there.
How would free world movement increase the development and the creation of robots required for the movement to work?
What I'm trying to get across is that there is not enough sophistication in technology that they could take over practically ALL of the lesser wanted human labor.
If this movement was to be put in place, what kind of new incentive, other than the reason people feel "good" making robots for humanity (very few scientists and engineers today hate their job and work for only money compared to something like lawyers), will allow for the drastic improvement in robotic technology?
All in one, how will a free world system allow for a massive increase in robotic technology?
On May 06 2012 11:02 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 10:56 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 06 2012 10:43 Focuspants wrote:On May 06 2012 03:56 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 06 2012 03:29 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 06 2012 03:02 DeathCompany wrote:
Mmmmmm so... what ever i am entitled to and can receive... the homeless man down the block who doesnt work or anything. gets aswell? You think u work hard ? Your think you work harder then a 16 hour sweatshop laborer that works for less then a dollar? You are siphoning of the stockmarket exploiting the rest of the world. If that hobo isen't entitled to anything your entitled to half of a dollar a day. We all live on welfare from our countries whether we work or not. The sweatshop laborer doesn't get paid as much because he's not as productive. Now, it's not his fault, he DOES work hard, but he doesn't have the productive infrastructure (machines, transportation, etc.) that western workers have. This problem gets solved over time by the capital markets and international corporations. Since workers in foreign countries are cheaper it is more profitable to make stuff there. That profit motive entices businesses to invest in those countries. Over time those investments make the workers more productive and their wages rise. That's not just theory. That's what has happened and continues to happen to this day and it has uplifted hundred of millions of people out of grinding absolute poverty. You do realize we cant support that sort of planet right? The amount of consumtion, pollution, waste, etc... that most develop nations produce, if rivaled by all other nations, would cause us to deplete our resources and destroy what semblance of an environment we have left. We wouldnt have enough food, enough anything really to sustain 7 billion people on a north american lifestyle. There need to be poor in order for there to be rich. Thats just the way it is. We can work together and stifle our advancement, or we can help a little here and there, and continue to advance. You cant really do both. We are depleting our planet now faster then ever. The captilism experience is drawing to a close and our planet is scared and have suffered alot for it. Rich vs Poor is over we have enough resources to share with everyone to live a very comftorable lfiestyle,technology exist today where we can grow 100 acres of food worth on 1 acre. It is imoral illogical and inhumane to watch people 1 billion people starve to death while we white people talk about conversion rates freedom and how capitalism is the last goverment form in our evolution as humans. You are insane. You can't argue on one hand that capitalism is depleting the Earth too fast and then say that on the other hand your resource economy will produce MORE. Your magic technology to do that DOES NOT EXIST!Don't say solar power. It's more expensive. If you go down that road you will produce less for everyone. You can't have it both ways... No one is letting 1 billion people starve to death. You are a fool to even suggest such a thing!
This is exactly what I'm talking about... Where is this technology? If the technology was avalible to make everything "free", why haven't businesses capitalized on reselling the "free" services and goods to us? If it was possible, wouldn't the cost of living drop drastically?
|
1019 Posts
This is so utterly stupid because it's trying to create a society in the same logic as communists made communism. Humans are self-interested by nature and you are asking for trouble if you are trying to create a totally equal society. Equal class, equal wealth, equal pay, etc. is a dead society. The existance of a social hierachy is what makes society dynamic; it's what drives people to work hard and become happy (making money, becoming successful, etc).
This kind of shit always surfaces whenever there is a recession or monetary crisis. I guess people just fucking forget that democracies and capitalist systems have taken us to where we are now. And then they fucking shut up when the economy gets better because they ride the wave too and don't need to complain anymore.
|
Check out how they think it should be implemented :
"It may happen that the Charter will be first adopted in a single country or bloc of countries that is naturally resource-rich and self sufficient. (Australia and the South Seas would be a good example) Once other countries see it working, they would be quick to follow.
Perhaps in the interim, a special provision for 'money-free' status in pioneering countries could be applied through a body like the UN, to maintain and protect the borders of such 'free zones' until no longer necessary."
Thats about it, no lengthy articles, arguments, debates, speeches.
Considering the original creator of the Charter was a songwriter and producer, this is a bold statement to claim.
Based on his lack of any notable degrees in anything related with government reforms, lack of published articles, research as well as an absurdly unrealistic suggestion for starting the implementation ( cause Australia will just roll over and let some random movement based in another country to manage its resources and finances yea), I confirm my suspicion that this is full of shite. I cant even find that guy on Google Search!
Yes this is a personal attack so what? People have proposed ideas less preposterous and taken more flak. If FWC wants to convince the public this is The Solution then they should of thought it through, get some famous people from fields like Philosophy or Economics to support it.
“No one has a right to consume happiness without producing it.” -Helen Keller
Not too relevant but you get the gist.
|
On May 06 2012 10:56 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 10:43 Focuspants wrote:On May 06 2012 03:56 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 06 2012 03:29 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 06 2012 03:02 DeathCompany wrote:
Mmmmmm so... what ever i am entitled to and can receive... the homeless man down the block who doesnt work or anything. gets aswell? You think u work hard ? Your think you work harder then a 16 hour sweatshop laborer that works for less then a dollar? You are siphoning of the stockmarket exploiting the rest of the world. If that hobo isen't entitled to anything your entitled to half of a dollar a day. We all live on welfare from our countries whether we work or not. The sweatshop laborer doesn't get paid as much because he's not as productive. Now, it's not his fault, he DOES work hard, but he doesn't have the productive infrastructure (machines, transportation, etc.) that western workers have. This problem gets solved over time by the capital markets and international corporations. Since workers in foreign countries are cheaper it is more profitable to make stuff there. That profit motive entices businesses to invest in those countries. Over time those investments make the workers more productive and their wages rise. That's not just theory. That's what has happened and continues to happen to this day and it has uplifted hundred of millions of people out of grinding absolute poverty. You do realize we cant support that sort of planet right? The amount of consumtion, pollution, waste, etc... that most develop nations produce, if rivaled by all other nations, would cause us to deplete our resources and destroy what semblance of an environment we have left. We wouldnt have enough food, enough anything really to sustain 7 billion people on a north american lifestyle. There need to be poor in order for there to be rich. Thats just the way it is. We can work together and stifle our advancement, or we can help a little here and there, and continue to advance. You cant really do both. We are depleting our planet now faster then ever. The captilism experience is drawing to a close and our planet is scared and have suffered alot for it. Rich vs Poor is over we have enough resources to share with everyone to live a very comftorable lfiestyle,technology exist today where we can grow 100 acres of food worth on 1 acre. It is imoral illogical and inhumane to watch people 1 billion people starve to death while we white people talk about conversion rates freedom and how capitalism is the last goverment form in our evolution as humans.
You are looking at the situation completely backwards. You have to realize a very fundamental fact of life: Poverty is the natural state of life on earth. All humans and animals are naturally born into poverty when they are born into nature. The fact that people starve and suffer has NOTHING to do with the economic system, it has everything to do with nature and fate.
The real outlier, the real miracle, is that people in the world have managed to escape poverty and create wealth. How did we create wealth? Through capitalism and market economics. Capitalism doesn't create poverty, it is the only means ever discovered for escaping poverty. When you lament the fact that some people have wealth while others are starving, you should be lamenting the fact that most of the world hasn't had the means to compete and industrialize and progress. China and India are perfect examples of how massive nations can be in poverty for centuries, and as soon as economic reform moves towards a market system, the people slowly but steadily grow in standard of living and wealth.
These are the facts. They aren't convenient facts for the type of person who wants to judge the world and people, who wants to call people greedy and evil, who wants to stand on a self-righteous soap box and blame humans for the poverty which nature created. Your moral indignation is popular, but it is founded upon ignorance and a false premise. The economic system you advocate to eliminate poverty will never help anybody, because your system does not create wealth, all it does is punish and take from those who have figured out how to create wealth. You are implicitly advocating a system of force and violence to achieve greater equality, when you should be advocating a system of freedom and voluntary exchange to create unequal wealth and growth. That would be the consistent position if you truly care about the poor and morality.
|
On May 06 2012 11:02 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 10:56 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 06 2012 10:43 Focuspants wrote:On May 06 2012 03:56 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 06 2012 03:29 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 06 2012 03:02 DeathCompany wrote:
Mmmmmm so... what ever i am entitled to and can receive... the homeless man down the block who doesnt work or anything. gets aswell? You think u work hard ? Your think you work harder then a 16 hour sweatshop laborer that works for less then a dollar? You are siphoning of the stockmarket exploiting the rest of the world. If that hobo isen't entitled to anything your entitled to half of a dollar a day. We all live on welfare from our countries whether we work or not. The sweatshop laborer doesn't get paid as much because he's not as productive. Now, it's not his fault, he DOES work hard, but he doesn't have the productive infrastructure (machines, transportation, etc.) that western workers have. This problem gets solved over time by the capital markets and international corporations. Since workers in foreign countries are cheaper it is more profitable to make stuff there. That profit motive entices businesses to invest in those countries. Over time those investments make the workers more productive and their wages rise. That's not just theory. That's what has happened and continues to happen to this day and it has uplifted hundred of millions of people out of grinding absolute poverty. You do realize we cant support that sort of planet right? The amount of consumtion, pollution, waste, etc... that most develop nations produce, if rivaled by all other nations, would cause us to deplete our resources and destroy what semblance of an environment we have left. We wouldnt have enough food, enough anything really to sustain 7 billion people on a north american lifestyle. There need to be poor in order for there to be rich. Thats just the way it is. We can work together and stifle our advancement, or we can help a little here and there, and continue to advance. You cant really do both. We are depleting our planet now faster then ever. The captilism experience is drawing to a close and our planet is scared and have suffered alot for it. Rich vs Poor is over we have enough resources to share with everyone to live a very comftorable lfiestyle,technology exist today where we can grow 100 acres of food worth on 1 acre. It is imoral illogical and inhumane to watch people 1 billion people starve to death while we white people talk about conversion rates freedom and how capitalism is the last goverment form in our evolution as humans. You are insane. You can't argue on one hand that capitalism is depleting the Earth too fast and then say that on the other hand your resource economy will produce MORE. Your magic technology to do that DOES NOT EXIST! Don't say solar power. It's more expensive. If you go down that road you will produce less for everyone. You can't have it both ways... No one is letting 1 billion people starve to death. You are a fool to even suggest such a thing!
a world without money well u cant use solar power thats to "expensive" see the irony in that comment.
Cyclical consumption is depleting the planet "Creating goods with planned obsolence in mind".
and the proof is everywhere if you take a look its in a song its in the suffering of a starving childs eyes. i know alot about many of these things but i dont know it all. And so far the most enlighetened direction and most rational of all solutions are a Resource based economy as described by jacque fresco.
many of you that ridicule this now will look back at yourself a year from now or twenty and realise that you were young once. Make an effort now and accept a truth every individual should " I can be wrong but thats okay"
and all i mention is well documented with sources, None of this stuff is magical make belive or utopia but obviously it appears like that and thats the point that shows that it has impact. Everytime someone says thats utopia their recognizing that this is Good but to good to be true so it must be wrong.
|
On May 06 2012 11:49 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 11:02 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 06 2012 10:56 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 06 2012 10:43 Focuspants wrote:On May 06 2012 03:56 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 06 2012 03:29 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 06 2012 03:02 DeathCompany wrote:
Mmmmmm so... what ever i am entitled to and can receive... the homeless man down the block who doesnt work or anything. gets aswell? You think u work hard ? Your think you work harder then a 16 hour sweatshop laborer that works for less then a dollar? You are siphoning of the stockmarket exploiting the rest of the world. If that hobo isen't entitled to anything your entitled to half of a dollar a day. We all live on welfare from our countries whether we work or not. The sweatshop laborer doesn't get paid as much because he's not as productive. Now, it's not his fault, he DOES work hard, but he doesn't have the productive infrastructure (machines, transportation, etc.) that western workers have. This problem gets solved over time by the capital markets and international corporations. Since workers in foreign countries are cheaper it is more profitable to make stuff there. That profit motive entices businesses to invest in those countries. Over time those investments make the workers more productive and their wages rise. That's not just theory. That's what has happened and continues to happen to this day and it has uplifted hundred of millions of people out of grinding absolute poverty. You do realize we cant support that sort of planet right? The amount of consumtion, pollution, waste, etc... that most develop nations produce, if rivaled by all other nations, would cause us to deplete our resources and destroy what semblance of an environment we have left. We wouldnt have enough food, enough anything really to sustain 7 billion people on a north american lifestyle. There need to be poor in order for there to be rich. Thats just the way it is. We can work together and stifle our advancement, or we can help a little here and there, and continue to advance. You cant really do both. We are depleting our planet now faster then ever. The captilism experience is drawing to a close and our planet is scared and have suffered alot for it. Rich vs Poor is over we have enough resources to share with everyone to live a very comftorable lfiestyle,technology exist today where we can grow 100 acres of food worth on 1 acre. It is imoral illogical and inhumane to watch people 1 billion people starve to death while we white people talk about conversion rates freedom and how capitalism is the last goverment form in our evolution as humans. You are insane. You can't argue on one hand that capitalism is depleting the Earth too fast and then say that on the other hand your resource economy will produce MORE. Your magic technology to do that DOES NOT EXIST! Don't say solar power. It's more expensive. If you go down that road you will produce less for everyone. You can't have it both ways... No one is letting 1 billion people starve to death. You are a fool to even suggest such a thing! Everytime someone says thats utopia their recognizing that this is Good but to good to be true so it must be wrong.
Ummmm.. thats because it is?
|
This quite unfortunately would never work. Inevitabley someone would say to a bunch of people "Hey if you help me take control of the city/country/whatever you will have 20x what you have now". Then you are once again at square one with power groups forming which advance and grow in size until they resemble what we have today. Telling a Human not to pursue power is like telling him not to eat when there is a big juicy steak in front of him. He might be able to stave of his hunger for awhile but eventually he will eat. In the same way the pursuit of power is part of us that like hunger, I do not see magicaly disapearing any time soon.
Edit: How is Mr. Bieber relevant to this thread?
|
Eat it Never say never :Dhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z5-P9v3F8w&ob=av3e
|
On May 06 2012 11:49 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 11:02 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 06 2012 10:56 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 06 2012 10:43 Focuspants wrote:On May 06 2012 03:56 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 06 2012 03:29 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 06 2012 03:02 DeathCompany wrote:
Mmmmmm so... what ever i am entitled to and can receive... the homeless man down the block who doesnt work or anything. gets aswell? You think u work hard ? Your think you work harder then a 16 hour sweatshop laborer that works for less then a dollar? You are siphoning of the stockmarket exploiting the rest of the world. If that hobo isen't entitled to anything your entitled to half of a dollar a day. We all live on welfare from our countries whether we work or not. The sweatshop laborer doesn't get paid as much because he's not as productive. Now, it's not his fault, he DOES work hard, but he doesn't have the productive infrastructure (machines, transportation, etc.) that western workers have. This problem gets solved over time by the capital markets and international corporations. Since workers in foreign countries are cheaper it is more profitable to make stuff there. That profit motive entices businesses to invest in those countries. Over time those investments make the workers more productive and their wages rise. That's not just theory. That's what has happened and continues to happen to this day and it has uplifted hundred of millions of people out of grinding absolute poverty. You do realize we cant support that sort of planet right? The amount of consumtion, pollution, waste, etc... that most develop nations produce, if rivaled by all other nations, would cause us to deplete our resources and destroy what semblance of an environment we have left. We wouldnt have enough food, enough anything really to sustain 7 billion people on a north american lifestyle. There need to be poor in order for there to be rich. Thats just the way it is. We can work together and stifle our advancement, or we can help a little here and there, and continue to advance. You cant really do both. We are depleting our planet now faster then ever. The captilism experience is drawing to a close and our planet is scared and have suffered alot for it. Rich vs Poor is over we have enough resources to share with everyone to live a very comftorable lfiestyle,technology exist today where we can grow 100 acres of food worth on 1 acre. It is imoral illogical and inhumane to watch people 1 billion people starve to death while we white people talk about conversion rates freedom and how capitalism is the last goverment form in our evolution as humans. You are insane. You can't argue on one hand that capitalism is depleting the Earth too fast and then say that on the other hand your resource economy will produce MORE. Your magic technology to do that DOES NOT EXIST! Don't say solar power. It's more expensive. If you go down that road you will produce less for everyone. You can't have it both ways... No one is letting 1 billion people starve to death. You are a fool to even suggest such a thing! a world without money well u cant use solar power thats to "expensive" see the irony in that comment. Cyclical consumption is depleting the planet "Creating goods with planned obsolence in mind". and the proof is everywhere if you take a look its in a song its in the suffering of a starving childs eyes. i know alot about many of these things but i dont know it all. And so far the most enlighetened direction and most rational of all solutions are a Resource based economy as described by jacque fresco. many of you that ridicule this now will look back at yourself a year from now or twenty and realise that you were young once. Make an effort now and accept a truth every individual should " I can be wrong but thats okay" and all i mention is well documented with sources, None of this stuff is magical make belive or utopia but obviously it appears like that and thats the point that shows that it has impact. Everytime someone says thats utopia their recognizing that this is Good but to good to be true so it must be wrong.
Still waiting on these sources. Unless you mean the Zeitegeist movies, which have been lambasted for inaccuracies and baseless acusations
|
On May 06 2012 11:49 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 11:02 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 06 2012 10:56 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 06 2012 10:43 Focuspants wrote:On May 06 2012 03:56 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 06 2012 03:29 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 06 2012 03:02 DeathCompany wrote:
Mmmmmm so... what ever i am entitled to and can receive... the homeless man down the block who doesnt work or anything. gets aswell? You think u work hard ? Your think you work harder then a 16 hour sweatshop laborer that works for less then a dollar? You are siphoning of the stockmarket exploiting the rest of the world. If that hobo isen't entitled to anything your entitled to half of a dollar a day. We all live on welfare from our countries whether we work or not. The sweatshop laborer doesn't get paid as much because he's not as productive. Now, it's not his fault, he DOES work hard, but he doesn't have the productive infrastructure (machines, transportation, etc.) that western workers have. This problem gets solved over time by the capital markets and international corporations. Since workers in foreign countries are cheaper it is more profitable to make stuff there. That profit motive entices businesses to invest in those countries. Over time those investments make the workers more productive and their wages rise. That's not just theory. That's what has happened and continues to happen to this day and it has uplifted hundred of millions of people out of grinding absolute poverty. You do realize we cant support that sort of planet right? The amount of consumtion, pollution, waste, etc... that most develop nations produce, if rivaled by all other nations, would cause us to deplete our resources and destroy what semblance of an environment we have left. We wouldnt have enough food, enough anything really to sustain 7 billion people on a north american lifestyle. There need to be poor in order for there to be rich. Thats just the way it is. We can work together and stifle our advancement, or we can help a little here and there, and continue to advance. You cant really do both. We are depleting our planet now faster then ever. The captilism experience is drawing to a close and our planet is scared and have suffered alot for it. Rich vs Poor is over we have enough resources to share with everyone to live a very comftorable lfiestyle,technology exist today where we can grow 100 acres of food worth on 1 acre. It is imoral illogical and inhumane to watch people 1 billion people starve to death while we white people talk about conversion rates freedom and how capitalism is the last goverment form in our evolution as humans. You are insane. You can't argue on one hand that capitalism is depleting the Earth too fast and then say that on the other hand your resource economy will produce MORE. Your magic technology to do that DOES NOT EXIST! Don't say solar power. It's more expensive. If you go down that road you will produce less for everyone. You can't have it both ways... No one is letting 1 billion people starve to death. You are a fool to even suggest such a thing! a world without money well u cant use solar power thats to "expensive" see the irony in that comment.
There is zero irony in the comment. They are expensive because they require a lot of resources to make.
So, in a resource based economy they would be expensive too!!!
What you are saying is that since a Mothership is not priced in currency it is free. That's ridiculous. It costs a lot of resources, therefore it is expensive. Solar panels require a lot of resources to produce, therefore they are expensive.
What you are trying to claim is that you can create a utopia where you have infinite orbital commands with infinite MULEs at your disposal to mine infinite mineral patches to produce infinite barracks to produce infinite marines.
|
Money exists because people are going to be trading whether you like it or not. It's natural and it makes sense.
The elimination of money (as we know it) won't eliminate trade. I'm guessing after a while we will end up with a new currency system, regulated or not.
|
On May 06 2012 12:02 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 11:49 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 06 2012 11:02 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 06 2012 10:56 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 06 2012 10:43 Focuspants wrote:On May 06 2012 03:56 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On May 06 2012 03:29 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 06 2012 03:02 DeathCompany wrote:
Mmmmmm so... what ever i am entitled to and can receive... the homeless man down the block who doesnt work or anything. gets aswell? You think u work hard ? Your think you work harder then a 16 hour sweatshop laborer that works for less then a dollar? You are siphoning of the stockmarket exploiting the rest of the world. If that hobo isen't entitled to anything your entitled to half of a dollar a day. We all live on welfare from our countries whether we work or not. The sweatshop laborer doesn't get paid as much because he's not as productive. Now, it's not his fault, he DOES work hard, but he doesn't have the productive infrastructure (machines, transportation, etc.) that western workers have. This problem gets solved over time by the capital markets and international corporations. Since workers in foreign countries are cheaper it is more profitable to make stuff there. That profit motive entices businesses to invest in those countries. Over time those investments make the workers more productive and their wages rise. That's not just theory. That's what has happened and continues to happen to this day and it has uplifted hundred of millions of people out of grinding absolute poverty. You do realize we cant support that sort of planet right? The amount of consumtion, pollution, waste, etc... that most develop nations produce, if rivaled by all other nations, would cause us to deplete our resources and destroy what semblance of an environment we have left. We wouldnt have enough food, enough anything really to sustain 7 billion people on a north american lifestyle. There need to be poor in order for there to be rich. Thats just the way it is. We can work together and stifle our advancement, or we can help a little here and there, and continue to advance. You cant really do both. We are depleting our planet now faster then ever. The captilism experience is drawing to a close and our planet is scared and have suffered alot for it. Rich vs Poor is over we have enough resources to share with everyone to live a very comftorable lfiestyle,technology exist today where we can grow 100 acres of food worth on 1 acre. It is imoral illogical and inhumane to watch people 1 billion people starve to death while we white people talk about conversion rates freedom and how capitalism is the last goverment form in our evolution as humans. You are insane. You can't argue on one hand that capitalism is depleting the Earth too fast and then say that on the other hand your resource economy will produce MORE. Your magic technology to do that DOES NOT EXIST! Don't say solar power. It's more expensive. If you go down that road you will produce less for everyone. You can't have it both ways... No one is letting 1 billion people starve to death. You are a fool to even suggest such a thing! a world without money well u cant use solar power thats to "expensive" see the irony in that comment. There is zero irony in the comment. They are expensive because they require a lot of resources to make. So, in a resource based economy they would be expensive too!!! What you are saying is that since a Mothership is not priced in currency it is free. That's ridiculous. It costs a lot of resources, therefore it is expensive. Solar panels require a lot of resources to produce, therefore they are expensive. What you are trying to claim is that you can create a utopia where you have infinite orbital commands with infinite MULEs at your disposal to mine infinite mineral patches to produce infinite barracks to produce infinite marines.
No their not if you knew anything about solar power you would know that, even in "The monetary system" they dont cost that much in comparasion to their output.
http://www.getsolar.com/blog/how-much-do-solar-panels-cost/12707/
if you build something to last and to become recylable with interchangable parts, You might make due with 15% of what we used so far for cyclical consumption to create abundance. How many cell phones do you think you have discarded in the last 10 years ?
We have basicly abundant easily tappable energy sources that could easily satisfy the worlds need for power. But remember you dont make money out of creating abundance.  econ101
|
There was a book about this kind of thing once, 'something manifesto'? pretty sure it was the cause of a few wars.
Sorry  it is a lovely idea but how would it work? who would distribute these resources? And what woul stop them from using thier poisition for the worse (see: Stalin).
I can only assume this come from GFC problems which is fair enough, but 'removing' money will not solver problems.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
