This is about a teacher and their care aids being caught by a childs father abusing and mistreating the children they were charged with protecting. This child has autism and others in his class have similar special needs as well.
He had decided to place a wire on his child one day when he sent him to school - the video is his explanation and submission of evidence of events that had happened. 6 and a half hours of audio was recorded.
I urge all of you to sign the petition he has started to see these teachers fired or forced to resign. I was in a similar situation in elementary school when I was being bullied by my principal who was then fired - I have no memory of it just the stories from my parents and some of our old friends from my hometown.
Please do not reply to this irresponsibly. Take time out of your day to watch this video.
Note to Mods: This is not just a youtube video post. The situation is a very real one - watch the video then lock this topic if you feel this is out of place.
The link to the petition can be found in the description box of his video on youtube.
Youtube Description Petition Link and News Coverage For more audio and information, please visit www.hnva.net/teacherbully Contact info: Akian5@comcast.net
My name is Stuart Chaifetz, and my son, Akian, is a ten-year old boy who has Autism. Akian has always been a sweet and non-violent child, and that is why it was so distressing when notes started coming home from his school, Horace Mann Elementary in Cherry Hill, New Jersey, saying that he was having violent outbursts, including him hitting his teacher and aide.
I could not understand why this was happening. I had never witnessed Akian hit anyone, nor could I dream of him lashing out as had been described to me. In October, I had a meeting with the IEP team (the teacher, school social worker, occupational therapist and speech teacher) to try to figure out what was going on. From that meeting, a behaviorist was called in who wrote a report. I sat down with the behaviorist on February 8, 2012 to review the findings.
It was pointless; even though the behaviorist was in the classroom a number of times, not only had he never witnessed any violent event, but when he tried to create a scenario that would cause one to happen, he failed.
Something was terribly wrong. I felt I was beginning to lose my son -- that these outbursts were changing his very nature. The teacher and school social worker tried to downplay it, to the point of almost mocking me for my concern. But I knew my son. I knew this wasn't him. And I knew I had to find out what was happening in his class that was having such a dramatic impact on him.
On the morning of Friday, February 17, 2012, I wired my son and sent him to school. That night, when I listened to the audio my life forever changed, for I heard my son being bullied by his teacher and aide.
EDIT:
Newspaper source provided by BattleAxe
On April 26 2012 10:11 Battleaxe wrote: Here's a source from a local newspaper. As someone who lives in the immediate area I find the whole thing to be a bit too close to home, but sadly I've seen numerous stories like this pop up over the last few months, it really is a shame that some of these kids are treated in the ways described here.
On April 26 2012 10:53 No_Roo wrote: Only thing worse than the teachers actions is this guys sort of overacting (not overreacting)... That of course doesn't change the fact that those teachers need to be removed and get themselves some different jobs. Teaching autistic children is very difficult, and these people are clearly not up to the challenge to teach them, probably any children for that matter.
agreed. it sounded like he rehearsed it several times. that insincere tone he had annoyed the hell out of me. He could've at least made it seem a bit more candid; an emotional tone would've delivered what he said a bit more better.
Still, it's sad to see a kid, of his circumstances, being mistreated like this.
I think he keeps a stern point throughout his video. Yes it sounds rehearsed and yes he is in front of pictures of his son. He did this to generate awareness, he talks slowly to emphasize his points. I don't see any difference between this video and that of someone public speaking in front of a crowd - you do it in a certain way. Heavy emotional reaction doesn't always generate enough interest as its easier to consider overblown. He was illustrating that he knew exactly what was happening - He knew exactly what message he wanted to get across - and he knew people wanted to know he was serious about it. He is not filing a lawsuit.
This may not be a "youtube video thread", the problem is that you really only posted a youtube video. You didn't even link this allegded petition.
Edit: Oh great, you edited in where to find it at least. I'm not going to watch a random 17 minute video without more information than you gave me. Really, why is this case special?
Here's a source from a local newspaper. As someone who lives in the immediate area I find the whole thing to be a bit too close to home, but sadly I've seen numerous stories like this pop up over the last few months, it really is a shame that some of these kids are treated in the ways described here.
On April 25 2012 11:03 screamingpalm wrote: This probably deserves a new thread, but everytime I try to make one it gets closed lol. Lots of stories about autistic kids getting bullied by teachers recently.
Stuart Chaifetz wired up his son and recorded 6-1/2 hours of classroom audio. He describes what he heard as "disgusting and vile ... an absolute disrespect and bullying of my son." He says the recording includes adults calling Akian a "bastard" and telling him to "shut your mouth." One aide at New Jersey's Horace Mann Elementary School has reportedly been fired, but Chaifetz wants the teacher out, an apology and legislative action "so that no teacher who bullies a child ... is allowed to retain a job."
"He had told me that his teacher and the assistant was making fun of him, teasing him," said A.J.'s dad, Alan Lassiter.
"Some of the kids in the class had mentioned that he was possessed or he had a demon," Cheryl Lassiter added.
His teachers are specifically trained to work with kids with different needs. Or at least they should be.
"The assistant had downloaded a scary phone application of like screaming and ghostly sounds. She began playing the app. And then the teacher comes over and holds his hands in the form of a crucifix like this and says, 'Are you really possessed?'" Cheryl Lassiter said.
The Lassiters were outraged when A.J. Lassiter told them the teacher and teacher's aide encouraged, even participated in the prank.
"She was helping out the students who were trying to make fun of me," A.J. Lassiter said.
On April 26 2012 10:08 HellRoxYa wrote: This may not be a "youtube video thread", the problem is that you really only posted a youtube video. You didn't even link this allegded petition.
Edit: Oh great, you edited in where to find it at least. I'm not going to watch a random 17 minute video without more information than you gave me. Really, why is this case special?
I quoted his description along with appropriate links for you.
It's really sad especially because this is in my school district. And it angers me even more due to the fact the teacher was re-assigned to my high school
On April 26 2012 10:08 HellRoxYa wrote: This may not be a "youtube video thread", the problem is that you really only posted a youtube video. You didn't even link this allegded petition.
Edit: Oh great, you edited in where to find it at least. I'm not going to watch a random 17 minute video without more information than you gave me. Really, why is this case special?
if your not gonna watch it then gtfo p.s. your not a mod
I saw this today on The Philip Defranco Show. It is amazing what this woman said to that boy. She said things that you should never say to a child, especially one with a mental disorder. I hope she gets punished.
I just want to spread awareness and generate some signatures on his petition. This really hits close to home for me. Even racism is a lesser evil in my eyes than doing this to someone who has no chance of even fighting back.
No I'm not a racist - I hate racism - I am just illustrating how much this video has pained me
On April 26 2012 10:08 HellRoxYa wrote: This may not be a "youtube video thread", the problem is that you really only posted a youtube video. You didn't even link this allegded petition.
Edit: Oh great, you edited in where to find it at least. I'm not going to watch a random 17 minute video without more information than you gave me. Really, why is this case special?
if your not gonna watch it then gtfo p.s. your not a mod
And who the hell do you think you are? I expect more information from an OP than what was there previously. It was just a video and some sap-story about how the OP had a similar experience when he was little. Generally when I open a thread on TL I get the important information right then and there and I didn't in this thread, hence my response revolved around me not going to go look for things just because I'm told to. I'd like to know why. If you don't, that's fine, but I'm entitled to think otherwise and voice my opinion.
It's atrocious how a "teacher" can act this way, when there are so many REAL hardworking and dedicated educators truly trying to help the next generation of students.
Isn't it against the rules to record audio/video inside of a school? I'm employed by the college I used to attend, and if someone were video or audio recording without the consent of everyone in the room, I'd have to have security remove them.
On April 26 2012 10:08 HellRoxYa wrote: This may not be a "youtube video thread", the problem is that you really only posted a youtube video. You didn't even link this allegded petition.
Edit: Oh great, you edited in where to find it at least. I'm not going to watch a random 17 minute video without more information than you gave me. Really, why is this case special?
if your not gonna watch it then gtfo p.s. your not a mod
And who the hell do you think you are? I expect more information from an OP than what was there previously. It was just a video and some sap-story about how the OP had a similar experience when he was little. Generally when I open a thread on TL I get the important information right then and there and I didn't in this thread, hence my response revolved around me not going to go look for things just because I'm told to. I'd like to know why. If you don't, that's fine, but I'm entitled to think otherwise and voice my opinion.
You make it seem like the format of this thread is a bigger problem than the subject at hand....
On April 26 2012 10:33 RoosterSamurai wrote: Isn't it against the rules to record audio/video inside of a school? I'm employed by the college I used to attend, and if someone were video or audio recording without the consent of everyone in the room, I'd have to have security remove them.
Yep - It's also against the rules to do what these teachers were doing. When they're lying to parents and their administrators what else can they do. I'm sure they'll let it slide as a lesser evil in this regard.
In college / university its mostly to prevent recording and distributing lectures or class material - completely irrelevant to this. They would not have to worry about this kind of problem as by that age it would just never slide more than an hour without it being brought up in some student organized protest.
On April 26 2012 10:08 HellRoxYa wrote: This may not be a "youtube video thread", the problem is that you really only posted a youtube video. You didn't even link this allegded petition.
Edit: Oh great, you edited in where to find it at least. I'm not going to watch a random 17 minute video without more information than you gave me. Really, why is this case special?
if your not gonna watch it then gtfo p.s. your not a mod
And who the hell do you think you are? I expect more information from an OP than what was there previously. It was just a video and some sap-story about how the OP had a similar experience when he was little. Generally when I open a thread on TL I get the important information right then and there and I didn't in this thread, hence my response revolved around me not going to go look for things just because I'm told to. I'd like to know why. If you don't, that's fine, but I'm entitled to think otherwise and voice my opinion.
You make it seem like the format of this thread is a bigger problem than the subject at hand....
thats really disgusting... how can... omg... those teachers are taking advantage of their disability... thats fucking sick... how can a parent feel safe sending a child to school anymore? ive seen situations where in my class (about 4 years ago) that the teacher was abusing a child.
that parent did the right thing, even though its like, against the rules or w/e to put a wire on your child... this had to be done to uncover the truth.
On April 26 2012 10:33 RoosterSamurai wrote: Isn't it against the rules to record audio/video inside of a school? I'm employed by the college I used to attend, and if someone were video or audio recording without the consent of everyone in the room, I'd have to have security remove them.
Yep - It's also against the rules to do what these teachers were doing. When they're lying to parents and their administrators what else can they do. I'm sure they'll let it slide as a lesser evil in this regard.
In college / university its mostly to prevent recording and distributing lectures or class material - completely irrelevant to this. They would not have to worry about this kind of problem as by that age it would just never slide more than an hour without it being brought up in some student organized protest.
The policy is not to avoid disturbing/copying class material. If they were just wandering around the hallway quietly with a camcorder, we'd have to ask them to stop or leave. And I never said what the teachers did wasn't wrong.
On April 26 2012 10:13 cscarfo1 wrote: It's really sad especially because this is in my school district. And it angers me even more due to the fact the teacher was re-assigned to my high school
You should play this video in class, draw everyone's attention to it and call her out.
"Hey miss, what's your opinion about these bastards?"
Just a petition for legislation that fires a teacher for bullying a student? He should sue the school district under the ADA or something. Problem is the audio may be inadmissible in court, but I don't see how it'll end other than a hefty settlement for the father either way.
Meh. Sounds like those women are not suited to teach small children. That's about it. Still, nothing remarkable on those recordings. Can't believe this clips has 45k likes - feels like something that will once again get way overblown.
On April 26 2012 10:43 PassionFruit wrote: Just a petition for legislation that fires a teacher for bullying a student? He should sue the school district under the ADA or something. Problem is the audio may be inadmissible in court, but I don't see how it'll end other than a hefty settlement for the father either way.
He isn't filing a lawsuit. If he were I'd be less sympathetic - well not really.
its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
On April 26 2012 10:33 RoosterSamurai wrote: Isn't it against the rules to record audio/video inside of a school? I'm employed by the college I used to attend, and if someone were video or audio recording without the consent of everyone in the room, I'd have to have security remove them.
And then when something like this happens (sans recorded evidence), everyone dismisses it as sensationalized or made up. It would be inadmissable in court, but hopefully you can see that some good can come out of this too. I'm all for rights to privacy, but why is it that things you do at home are up for scrutiny by the surveillance state, but a public incident like this cannot be documented?
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
What if it were your child? What if it were you.
Asshole. There is a difference between weak and unable.
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
I find that incredibly offensive. Stuff your survival of the fittest crap up your ass.
Only thing worse than the teachers actions is this guys sort of overacting (not overreacting)... That of course doesn't change the fact that those teachers need to be removed and get themselves some different jobs. Teaching autistic children is very difficult, and these people are clearly not up to the challenge to teach them, probably any children for that matter.
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
oh god haha, this post is quoteworthy. this man has no idea what he's talking about. survival of the fittest? really?
I just watched the whole thing, it's very saddening that more action was not taken by the school system to investigate the matter, if not directly take action after the presentation of evidence by the victim's father.
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
It happens a lot less nowadays than it did before. Modern society is structured on the principle that the strong provide for the weak, and that everyone has a right to life regardless of their fitness. This is not how nature works, obviously, and a long time ago, people born with disabilities didn't live long enough for this kind of thing to happen to them.
By the way, it's unwise to vocalize unpopular opinions. All that can come of it is people responding in anger to your post, like the ones below you, and mods warning/banning you.
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
What if it were your child? What if it were you.
Asshole. There is a difference between weak and unable.
Inability is borne of weakness. Regardless of whether or not he is "right", your argument is invalid; people are hypocrites by nature. A good test of someone's stance on an issue actually avoids making it personal.
On April 26 2012 10:53 No_Roo wrote: Only thing worse than the teachers actions is this guys sort of overacting (not overreacting)... That of course doesn't change the fact that those teachers need to be removed and get themselves some different jobs. Teaching autistic children is very difficult, and these people are clearly not up to the challenge to teach them, probably any children for that matter.
I agree with everything you just said. This man is obviously putting on a bit of a show, which makes it a bit difficult to sympathize with him. However, listening to the audio clips is enough to make me agree with his message, at least.
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
It happens a lot less nowadays than it did before. Modern society is structured on the principle that the strong provide for the weak, and that everyone has a right to life regardless of their fitness. This is not how nature works, obviously, and a long time ago, people born with disabilities didn't live long enough for this kind of thing to happen to them.
By the way, it's unwise to vocalize unpopular opinions. All that can come of it is people responding in anger to your post, like the ones below you, and mods warning/banning you.
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
What if it were your child? What if it were you.
Asshole. There is a difference between weak and unable.
Inability is borne of weakness. Regardless of whether or not he is "right", your argument is invalid; people are hypocrites by nature. A good test of someone's stance on an issue actually avoids making it personal.
Total fucking garbage. I grew up with a mother that had spina bifida, and she never let her disability get in the way to achieve anything. She put forth more parenting effort than I observed from any of my peers' parents. My mother would invite my friends' parents over and many would leave in tears realizing how shit they were. Embarassing for me at the time, but looking back, it was damn good parenting making sure I wan't running with a bad crowd. A good test of someone's stance on an issue does not necessarily mean dismissing anecdotes.
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
While you are perfectly entitled to hold this opinion, it really saddens me. I think there is something besides survival of the fittest that determines how people should be treated. I think there is a certain value to human life of any sort (including the disabled), and as so, they should be treated fairly.
I just hope that one day you don't have to "eat your words."
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
We define ourselves as different from animals. We don't poop in each other's gardens. Survival of the fittest has changed and is irrelevant in an advanced civilization. If it's bad, then how come we build space rockets and tigers are almost extinct?
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
It happens a lot less nowadays than it did before. Modern society is structured on the principle that the strong provide for the weak, and that everyone has a right to life regardless of their fitness. This is not how nature works, obviously, and a long time ago, people born with disabilities didn't live long enough for this kind of thing to happen to them.
By the way, it's unwise to vocalize unpopular opinions. All that can come of it is people responding in anger to your post, like the ones below you, and mods warning/banning you.
On April 26 2012 10:48 Senjai wrote:
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
What if it were your child? What if it were you.
Asshole. There is a difference between weak and unable.
Inability is borne of weakness. Regardless of whether or not he is "right", your argument is invalid; people are hypocrites by nature. A good test of someone's stance on an issue actually avoids making it personal.
Total fucking garbage. I grew up with a mother that had spina bifida, and she never let her disability get in the way to achieve anything. She put forth more parenting effort than I observed from any of my peers' parents. My mother would invite my friends' parents over and many would leave in tears realizing how shit they were. Embarassing for me at the time, but looking back, it was damn good parenting making sure I wan't running with a bad crowd. A good test of someone's stance on an issue does not necessarily mean dismissing anecdotes.
I'm not interested in addressing the rest of your post, but I just want to point out that "What if it were your child? What if it were you?" is not an anecdote. Again, dismissing most of the conversation here, I would say that the "What if it were you?" argument is kind of weak because its really just meant to catch people in their own hypocrisy or make them think twice about their stance if it isn't solid. But if you were to use it on somebody who has actually thought their opinions out carefully, that argument would be laughed at, I think.
On April 26 2012 10:53 No_Roo wrote: Only thing worse than the teachers actions is this guys sort of overacting (not overreacting)... That of course doesn't change the fact that those teachers need to be removed and get themselves some different jobs. Teaching autistic children is very difficult, and these people are clearly not up to the challenge to teach them, probably any children for that matter.
agreed. it sounded like he rehearsed it several times. that insincere tone he had annoyed the hell out of me. He could've at least made it seem a bit more candid; an emotional tone would've delivered what he said a bit more better.
Still, it's sad to see a kid, of his circumstances, being mistreated like this.
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
It happens a lot less nowadays than it did before. Modern society is structured on the principle that the strong provide for the weak, and that everyone has a right to life regardless of their fitness. This is not how nature works, obviously, and a long time ago, people born with disabilities didn't live long enough for this kind of thing to happen to them.
By the way, it's unwise to vocalize unpopular opinions. All that can come of it is people responding in anger to your post, like the ones below you, and mods warning/banning you.
On April 26 2012 10:48 Senjai wrote:
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
What if it were your child? What if it were you.
Asshole. There is a difference between weak and unable.
Inability is borne of weakness. Regardless of whether or not he is "right", your argument is invalid; people are hypocrites by nature. A good test of someone's stance on an issue actually avoids making it personal.
Total fucking garbage. I grew up with a mother that had spina bifida, and she never let her disability get in the way to achieve anything. She put forth more parenting effort than I observed from any of my peers' parents. My mother would invite my friends' parents over and many would leave in tears realizing how shit they were. Embarassing for me at the time, but looking back, it was damn good parenting making sure I wan't running with a bad crowd. A good test of someone's stance on an issue does not necessarily mean dismissing anecdotes.
I'm not interested in addressing the rest of your post, but I just want to point out that "What if it were your child? What if it were you?" is not an anecdote. Again, dismissing most of the conversation here, I would say that the "What if it were you?" argument is kind of weak because its really just meant to catch people in their own hypocrisy or make them think twice about their stance if it isn't solid. But if you were to use it on somebody who has actually thought their opinions out carefully, that argument would be laughed at, I think.
Then laugh at it - that's your choice. But I don't think I would every see an autistic person making fun of another autistic person because he is autistic.
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
It happens a lot less nowadays than it did before. Modern society is structured on the principle that the strong provide for the weak, and that everyone has a right to life regardless of their fitness. This is not how nature works, obviously, and a long time ago, people born with disabilities didn't live long enough for this kind of thing to happen to them.
By the way, it's unwise to vocalize unpopular opinions. All that can come of it is people responding in anger to your post, like the ones below you, and mods warning/banning you.
On April 26 2012 10:48 Senjai wrote:
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
What if it were your child? What if it were you.
Asshole. There is a difference between weak and unable.
Inability is borne of weakness. Regardless of whether or not he is "right", your argument is invalid; people are hypocrites by nature. A good test of someone's stance on an issue actually avoids making it personal.
Total fucking garbage. I grew up with a mother that had spina bifida, and she never let her disability get in the way to achieve anything. She put forth more parenting effort than I observed from any of my peers' parents. My mother would invite my friends' parents over and many would leave in tears realizing how shit they were. Embarassing for me at the time, but looking back, it was damn good parenting making sure I wan't running with a bad crowd. A good test of someone's stance on an issue does not necessarily mean dismissing anecdotes.
Of course it does. Love for the people close to you will make you want to protect or help them even if, like FoxSC, you believe in "survival of the fittest." I was saying that Senjai's rhetorical question didn't prove anything except that Fox probably values his family more than his values.
When people say "weakness" in this context they don't just mean physically weak, by the way. Weakness, in the broadest sense, is the incapability of doing something, which is why I pointed that out.
By the way, how does your post have anything to do with what I said? Unless you also believe in "survival of the fittest", it's irrelevant (though I'm sorry to hear about your mom).
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
We define ourselves as different from animals. We don't poop in each other's gardens. Survival of the fittest has changed and is irrelevant in an advanced civilization. If it's bad, then how come we build space rockets and tigers are almost extinct?
We established our supremacy over other species with technology, byproducts of our intellect. As technology has progressed and made our lives less demanding, less physical effort has been required to survive, which has led to us becoming physically weaker over the years but more intelligent. Thanks to our reliance on technology, unfavorable genes are more likely to survive.
Survival of the fittest has definitely not become irrelevant, though. All of the skills and and traits that are beneficial to success in modern civilization are become more and more emphasized over things that used to be crucial like physical strength.
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
What happens in nature is apparently the strong take care of the weak, file lawsuits, get people fired, and/or simply demand a public apology. Also nature apparently would have it that you would make a post on this website that demonstrates your lack of understanding.
Fitness is a combination of survivability and reproduction. Survival of the fittest refers not to specific individuals, but whole species. That the kid is alive today and will live on shows that he is at least well-suited to his environment, with the environment of course including his father. As you can see, applying fitness to our contemporary humans doesn't have interesting results.
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
It happens a lot less nowadays than it did before. Modern society is structured on the principle that the strong provide for the weak, and that everyone has a right to life regardless of their fitness. This is not how nature works, obviously, and a long time ago, people born with disabilities didn't live long enough for this kind of thing to happen to them.
By the way, it's unwise to vocalize unpopular opinions. All that can come of it is people responding in anger to your post, like the ones below you, and mods warning/banning you.
On April 26 2012 10:48 Senjai wrote:
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
What if it were your child? What if it were you.
Asshole. There is a difference between weak and unable.
Inability is borne of weakness. Regardless of whether or not he is "right", your argument is invalid; people are hypocrites by nature. A good test of someone's stance on an issue actually avoids making it personal.
Total fucking garbage. I grew up with a mother that had spina bifida, and she never let her disability get in the way to achieve anything. She put forth more parenting effort than I observed from any of my peers' parents. My mother would invite my friends' parents over and many would leave in tears realizing how shit they were. Embarassing for me at the time, but looking back, it was damn good parenting making sure I wan't running with a bad crowd. A good test of someone's stance on an issue does not necessarily mean dismissing anecdotes.
I'm not interested in addressing the rest of your post, but I just want to point out that "What if it were your child? What if it were you?" is not an anecdote. Again, dismissing most of the conversation here, I would say that the "What if it were you?" argument is kind of weak because its really just meant to catch people in their own hypocrisy or make them think twice about their stance if it isn't solid. But if you were to use it on somebody who has actually thought their opinions out carefully, that argument would be laughed at, I think.
Then laugh at it - that's your choice. But I don't think I would every see an autistic person making fun of another autistic person because he is autistic.
I don't think you read my post. Either that or I just don't see the connection between your response and my post. If you could elaborate on what you mean by "I don't think I would every see an autistic person making fun of another autistic person because he is autistic" and how it relates to what I said, I would appreciate it.
Not sure why this has gone viral. Yeah, she was inappropriate, rude, and not a very good teacher. On the other hand, someone was fired over it, the rest of the teachers seemed to receive some disciplinary action, and the behavior she displayed probably wouldn't even make the top 100 of terrible teachers for the year. Being a special needs teacher is also probably one of the hardest jobs in the world.
On April 26 2012 10:53 No_Roo wrote: Only thing worse than the teachers actions is this guys sort of overacting (not overreacting)... That of course doesn't change the fact that those teachers need to be removed and get themselves some different jobs. Teaching autistic children is very difficult, and these people are clearly not up to the challenge to teach them, probably any children for that matter.
agreed. it sounded like he rehearsed it several times. that insincere tone he had annoyed the hell out of me. He could've at least made it seem a bit more candid; an emotional tone would've delivered what he said a bit more better.
Still, it's sad to see a kid, of his circumstances, being mistreated like this.
It makes me feel like he wasn't confident enough with the damning nature of the audio. I wonder why he wasn't, it seems pretty damning to me by itself. :\
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
It happens a lot less nowadays than it did before. Modern society is structured on the principle that the strong provide for the weak, and that everyone has a right to life regardless of their fitness. This is not how nature works, obviously, and a long time ago, people born with disabilities didn't live long enough for this kind of thing to happen to them.
By the way, it's unwise to vocalize unpopular opinions. All that can come of it is people responding in anger to your post, like the ones below you, and mods warning/banning you.
On April 26 2012 10:48 Senjai wrote:
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
What if it were your child? What if it were you.
Asshole. There is a difference between weak and unable.
Inability is borne of weakness. Regardless of whether or not he is "right", your argument is invalid; people are hypocrites by nature. A good test of someone's stance on an issue actually avoids making it personal.
Total fucking garbage. I grew up with a mother that had spina bifida, and she never let her disability get in the way to achieve anything. She put forth more parenting effort than I observed from any of my peers' parents. My mother would invite my friends' parents over and many would leave in tears realizing how shit they were. Embarassing for me at the time, but looking back, it was damn good parenting making sure I wan't running with a bad crowd. A good test of someone's stance on an issue does not necessarily mean dismissing anecdotes.
Of course it does. Love for the people close to you will make you want to protect or help them even if, like FoxSC, you believe in "survival of the fittest." I was saying that Senjai's rhetorical question didn't prove anything except that Fox probably values his family more than his values.
When people say "weakness" in this context they don't just mean physically weak, by the way. Weakness, in the broadest sense, is the incapability of doing something, which is why I pointed that out.
By the way, how does your post have anything to do with what I said? Unless you also believe in "survival of the fittest", it's irrelevant (though I'm sorry to hear about your mom).
It was your "Inability is borne of weakness" that set me off I think. It is amazing to me how ignorant American society is sometimes. Some blame can probably be put on Christian conservatism, seeing the disabled as "cursed" or some such nonsense. The fascist condemnation of genetic imperfections and diabilities of this country set me off into a rage.
Now take into consideration that I have multiple sleeping disorders, which drain my energy and keep me from being productive in society. Unlike my mother, it is not a "physical" disability which I might be able to have some kind of control over and can put an effort to fight against.
On April 26 2012 11:09 MichaelDonovan wrote: By the way, it's unwise to vocalize unpopular opinions. All that can come of it is people responding in anger to your post, like the ones below you, and mods warning/banning you.
Let me correct this : it is unwise to vocalize unpopular and unthought opinions, because he obviously has a very simplistic approach of the matter.
This is actually ridiculous. The fact that a teacher would do this is not so surprising to me, teachers are put under tremendous stress and are after all, people. And they make mistakes, even if they are consistent. That however does not excuse the action, I signed the petition because I think that she should be fired. She obviously isn't cut out to work with children, especially mentally disabled ones. I feel bad for her class. What does surprise me, however, is how the union and/or principle and/or board of education reacted to the wire. They could easily listen to voices in real life and determine whether or not it is her. Alternatively, they themselves could wire the room for a day and listen in, if they don't believe it (assuming that's why she's not fired). But the fact that they are so reluctant to talk to Akian's parents or to do anything about this is truly what's surprising to me.
I hope something's done about this.
Off topic:
On April 26 2012 10:08 HellRoxYa wrote: This may not be a "youtube video thread", the problem is that you really only posted a youtube video. You didn't even link this allegded petition.
Edit: Oh great, you edited in where to find it at least. I'm not going to watch a random 17 minute video without more information than you gave me. Really, why is this case special?
Seriously the amount of self-righteous wannabe-mods posting on these forums is ridiculous. You're not a mod. Let the mods to their jobs. If you don't want to watch this youtube video, then don't watch the youtube video. If you want to know why the case is special, then watch the youtube video. Oh, and stop making the forum look like shit by posting and telling the OP that you won't do what he asks.
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
It happens a lot less nowadays than it did before. Modern society is structured on the principle that the strong provide for the weak, and that everyone has a right to life regardless of their fitness. This is not how nature works, obviously, and a long time ago, people born with disabilities didn't live long enough for this kind of thing to happen to them.
By the way, it's unwise to vocalize unpopular opinions. All that can come of it is people responding in anger to your post, like the ones below you, and mods warning/banning you.
On April 26 2012 10:48 Senjai wrote:
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
What if it were your child? What if it were you.
Asshole. There is a difference between weak and unable.
Inability is borne of weakness. Regardless of whether or not he is "right", your argument is invalid; people are hypocrites by nature. A good test of someone's stance on an issue actually avoids making it personal.
Total fucking garbage. I grew up with a mother that had spina bifida, and she never let her disability get in the way to achieve anything. She put forth more parenting effort than I observed from any of my peers' parents. My mother would invite my friends' parents over and many would leave in tears realizing how shit they were. Embarassing for me at the time, but looking back, it was damn good parenting making sure I wan't running with a bad crowd. A good test of someone's stance on an issue does not necessarily mean dismissing anecdotes.
Of course it does. Love for the people close to you will make you want to protect or help them even if, like FoxSC, you believe in "survival of the fittest." I was saying that Senjai's rhetorical question didn't prove anything except that Fox probably values his family more than his values.
When people say "weakness" in this context they don't just mean physically weak, by the way. Weakness, in the broadest sense, is the incapability of doing something, which is why I pointed that out.
By the way, how does your post have anything to do with what I said? Unless you also believe in "survival of the fittest", it's irrelevant (though I'm sorry to hear about your mom).
It was your "Inability is borne of weakness" that set me off I think. It is amazing to me how ignorant American society is sometimes. Some blame can probably be put on Christian conservatism, seeing the disabled as "cursed" or some such nonsense. The fascist condemnation of genetic imperfections and diabilities of this country set me off into a rage.
Now take into consideration that I have multiple sleeping disorders, which drain my energy and keep me from being productive in society. Unlike my mother, it is not a "physical" disability which I might be able to have some kind of control over and can put an effort to fight against.
I haven't heard anyone suggest that the disabled are cursed O_o I'll take your word for it though. That's a ridiculous stance, but then again, for a religious person, that's not so far fetched. Let's avoid the religion topic though.
Based on my personal experiences, a lot of teachers in classrooms don't have the emotional capacity to teach. They may have the qualifications and the skills to teach cirriculum, but dealing with children? No. Especially those with handicaps.
On April 26 2012 10:13 cscarfo1 wrote: It's really sad especially because this is in my school district. And it angers me even more due to the fact the teacher was re-assigned to my high school
Interesting, reminiscent of rapist priests (rapriests?) getting relocated. Abuse everywhere! Failures in life who only dare oppose those who aren't even half their size.
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
It happens a lot less nowadays than it did before. Modern society is structured on the principle that the strong provide for the weak, and that everyone has a right to life regardless of their fitness. This is not how nature works, obviously, and a long time ago, people born with disabilities didn't live long enough for this kind of thing to happen to them.
By the way, it's unwise to vocalize unpopular opinions. All that can come of it is people responding in anger to your post, like the ones below you, and mods warning/banning you.
On April 26 2012 10:48 Senjai wrote:
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
What if it were your child? What if it were you.
Asshole. There is a difference between weak and unable.
Inability is borne of weakness. Regardless of whether or not he is "right", your argument is invalid; people are hypocrites by nature. A good test of someone's stance on an issue actually avoids making it personal.
Total fucking garbage. I grew up with a mother that had spina bifida, and she never let her disability get in the way to achieve anything. She put forth more parenting effort than I observed from any of my peers' parents. My mother would invite my friends' parents over and many would leave in tears realizing how shit they were. Embarassing for me at the time, but looking back, it was damn good parenting making sure I wan't running with a bad crowd. A good test of someone's stance on an issue does not necessarily mean dismissing anecdotes.
Of course it does. Love for the people close to you will make you want to protect or help them even if, like FoxSC, you believe in "survival of the fittest." I was saying that Senjai's rhetorical question didn't prove anything except that Fox probably values his family more than his values.
When people say "weakness" in this context they don't just mean physically weak, by the way. Weakness, in the broadest sense, is the incapability of doing something, which is why I pointed that out.
By the way, how does your post have anything to do with what I said? Unless you also believe in "survival of the fittest", it's irrelevant (though I'm sorry to hear about your mom).
It was your "Inability is borne of weakness" that set me off I think. It is amazing to me how ignorant American society is sometimes. Some blame can probably be put on Christian conservatism, seeing the disabled as "cursed" or some such nonsense. The fascist condemnation of genetic imperfections and diabilities of this country set me off into a rage.
Now take into consideration that I have multiple sleeping disorders, which drain my energy and keep me from being productive in society. Unlike my mother, it is not a "physical" disability which I might be able to have some kind of control over and can put an effort to fight against.
I haven't heard anyone suggest that the disabled are cursed O_o I'll take your word for it though. That's a ridiculous stance, but then again, for a religious person, that's not so far fetched. Let's avoid the religion topic though.
See my post on the first page for the story in Arizona.
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
It happens a lot less nowadays than it did before. Modern society is structured on the principle that the strong provide for the weak, and that everyone has a right to life regardless of their fitness. This is not how nature works, obviously, and a long time ago, people born with disabilities didn't live long enough for this kind of thing to happen to them.
By the way, it's unwise to vocalize unpopular opinions. All that can come of it is people responding in anger to your post, like the ones below you, and mods warning/banning you.
On April 26 2012 10:48 Senjai wrote:
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
What if it were your child? What if it were you.
Asshole. There is a difference between weak and unable.
Inability is borne of weakness. Regardless of whether or not he is "right", your argument is invalid; people are hypocrites by nature. A good test of someone's stance on an issue actually avoids making it personal.
Total fucking garbage. I grew up with a mother that had spina bifida, and she never let her disability get in the way to achieve anything. She put forth more parenting effort than I observed from any of my peers' parents. My mother would invite my friends' parents over and many would leave in tears realizing how shit they were. Embarassing for me at the time, but looking back, it was damn good parenting making sure I wan't running with a bad crowd. A good test of someone's stance on an issue does not necessarily mean dismissing anecdotes.
Of course it does. Love for the people close to you will make you want to protect or help them even if, like FoxSC, you believe in "survival of the fittest." I was saying that Senjai's rhetorical question didn't prove anything except that Fox probably values his family more than his values.
When people say "weakness" in this context they don't just mean physically weak, by the way. Weakness, in the broadest sense, is the incapability of doing something, which is why I pointed that out.
By the way, how does your post have anything to do with what I said? Unless you also believe in "survival of the fittest", it's irrelevant (though I'm sorry to hear about your mom).
It was your "Inability is borne of weakness" that set me off I think. It is amazing to me how ignorant American society is sometimes. Some blame can probably be put on Christian conservatism, seeing the disabled as "cursed" or some such nonsense. The fascist condemnation of genetic imperfections and diabilities of this country set me off into a rage.
Now take into consideration that I have multiple sleeping disorders, which drain my energy and keep me from being productive in society. Unlike my mother, it is not a "physical" disability which I might be able to have some kind of control over and can put an effort to fight against.
I haven't heard anyone suggest that the disabled are cursed O_o I'll take your word for it though. That's a ridiculous stance, but then again, for a religious person, that's not so far fetched. Let's avoid the religion topic though.
See my post on the first page for the story in Arizona.
Glad I don't live in one of those places. I've heard that some areas in the US don't teach evolution or other "offensive" things in school.
On April 26 2012 11:33 Reaper9 wrote: Based on my personal experiences, a lot of teachers in classrooms don't have the emotional capacity to teach. They may have the qualifications and the skills to teach cirriculum, but dealing with children? No. Especially those with handicaps.
The field of teaching the mentally disabled is one that burns people out pretty quickly. It's tough, because they need to be extremely patient, and then they have to deal with the fact that regardless of what they do, the kids will still be retarded. Going out of your way to bully a student is a whole different story, though.
What makes this case different from every other case out there? (that he got it on tape?) Mentally handicapped people are being bullied pretty much in every city in the united states. We shouldn't look at this as a specific case, but look at the general population
I'm positive I heard about this thing several months ago (nearly exact same story) or is this a completely different occurence? Does anyone know what I'm talking about?
On April 26 2012 11:59 Release wrote: What makes this case different from every other case out there? (that he got it on tape?) Mentally handicapped people are being bullied pretty much in every city in the united states. We shouldn't look at this as a specific case, but look at the general population
It often takes specific cases to make people really look at things. But I agree with you. It's unfortunate
I can't believe people are actually sticking up for this. All of them should loose there jobs, any adult who was there and didn't blow the whistle is at fault. Treating an innocent child like that is just evil.
I'd bet some of you would feel differently if it was your child being treated like this.
On April 26 2012 12:12 Reborn8u wrote: I can't believe people are actually sticking up for this. All of them should loose there jobs, any adult who was there and didn't blow the whistle is at fault. Treating an innocent child like that is just evil.
I'd bet some of you would feel differently if it was your child being treated like this.
Yeah i don't really understand why someone would, completely inhumane and just ignorant... not the people sticking up for the teachers i mean in all honesty no one should care what they have to say, but bringing a phone app with scary noises and asking the kid if hes possessed is just radical nonsense, there's a reason why religion isn't really allowed in school because of people making poor decisions and useless arguments breaking out. But teasing an autistic child with a phone app saying "are you possessed" is pretty sick, the staff that did that was probably abused or neglected as a child or something because i don't see how this is even funny. -_-
It's hard to find teachers/aids who thrive in a self-contained classroom like that, for the pay/benefits/etc that they get. Generally (times might be a bit different right now) there isn't a backlog of qualified people waiting to take the jobs of the adults in that classroom. This makes it difficult to prevent these types of situations.
On April 26 2012 11:22 zakmaa wrote: This is actually ridiculous. The fact that a teacher would do this is not so surprising to me, teachers are put under tremendous stress and are after all, people. And they make mistakes, even if they are consistent. That however does not excuse the action, I signed the petition because I think that she should be fired. She obviously isn't cut out to work with children, especially mentally disabled ones. I feel bad for her class. What does surprise me, however, is how the union and/or principle and/or board of education reacted to the wire. They could easily listen to voices in real life and determine whether or not it is her. Alternatively, they themselves could wire the room for a day and listen in, if they don't believe it (assuming that's why she's not fired). But the fact that they are so reluctant to talk to Akian's parents or to do anything about this is truly what's surprising to me.
I hope something's done about this.
There are a lot of legal barriers to doing things like wiretapping a classroom... it's not really an option for the district. If they wanted to, they could regularly monitor the classroom in person, and do many other things, but it would require more work from the administration.
Young teachers etc are generally careless and unprofessional.. ive seen a few even talk about a one night stand the night before in earshot of a class full of young children (~7-9yrs old?)
This is completely out of line. There should be no leniency for these aids and teachers. They should under no means be able to move to a different district. I cannot believe what I heard on this video. This is just straight appalling. I cannot understand how this could even occur really but the fact that it happens at a special ed class is sick.
Wtf? I've worked with a lot of developmentally disabled children and they tend to throw fits over simple things. But when you're just simply insulting them and not giving a care in the world, I don't know what to say.
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
I wonder how many people were disappointed trying to report you.
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
Are you serious dude? You think a parent is going to say "Oh poop we had an autistic kid i guess we should just let him get bullied around while we try to have another kid" That being said, this "teacher" should be fired right away. Kids with special needs should have a teacher who is even more gentle and understanding than your average person. I also think that the public apology that the father demands would be appropriate.
Signed the petition. My mom was a special ed teacher. It is hard, demanding (and sometimes physical) work. Some parents can look for controversy and give teachers a hard time. I watched and listened with skepticism, but this father is 100% correct in his outrage. I hope he gets what he's looking for.
Off-topic: Only 4 pages, and I see the typical wanna-be mods who take time out of their busy day to parse and critique the OP's format like it really ******* matters. And then there's the social darwinist and modern philosopher telling us all exactly what's wrong with humanity (troll?). Really impressive work there, fellas. Way to go.
Watched the whole video and responses, and I must say the father is absolutely restrained, and I can only hope that I would be equal to the task if the situation came to me. Props.
On April 26 2012 11:18 BlackJack wrote: Not sure why this has gone viral. Yeah, she was inappropriate, rude, and not a very good teacher. On the other hand, someone was fired over it, the rest of the teachers seemed to receive some disciplinary action, and the behavior she displayed probably wouldn't even make the top 100 of terrible teachers for the year. Being a special needs teacher is also probably one of the hardest jobs in the world.
... This has nothing to do with the job being hard. There are tons of jobs which are more stressful than being a special ed teacher. This is a case of a teacher who obviously has no regard for the well being of her students. Shit like this happens all the time. Irresponsible people get jobs they should never be trusted with. Glad that the teacher lost her job as she deserved, however the others need to go as well. If I was a parent I wouldn't want a single one of those "educators" in my child's school.
It was your "Inability is borne of weakness" that set me off I think. It is amazing to me how ignorant American society is sometimes. Some blame can probably be put on Christian conservatism, seeing the disabled as "cursed" or some such nonsense. The fascist condemnation of genetic imperfections and diabilities of this country set me off into a rage.
Now take into consideration that I have multiple sleeping disorders, which drain my energy and keep me from being productive in society. Unlike my mother, it is not a "physical" disability which I might be able to have some kind of control over and can put an effort to fight against.
I just wanted to insert that the lack of care for the marginalized probably is related to something other than American culture or even Christianity. If anything Christianity speaks against what popular culture would believe. If you check out John 9 in the bible, you'll see that disabled are not outcasts to God but are beloved and included in His purposes.
Inability is weakness, certainly, but when did our identities and personhood become reduced to what we can do, what we have, race, socioeconomic status, etc...? I think that's the real question. I deal with significant depression and anxiety and I can say that finding the answer to that question either frees you or condemns you. It's worth asking.
@ OP: Sad to hear, and I can hardly imagine hearing that kind of treatment toward your own flesh and blood. I'm sure having a child with autism is quite a journey for the parents and the child, a lot of which I can't fully understand just by watching the video. I worked with students with learning disabilities when I was in high school and it was easy to see that it was frustrating for the students and the teacher... it definitely takes a lot of patience.
On April 26 2012 12:43 Cyro wrote: Young teachers etc are generally careless and unprofessional.. ive seen a few even talk about a one night stand the night before in earshot of a class full of young children (~7-9yrs old?)
omg, they hear that people are having sex? they don't tell them that the bee was flying to the flower yesterday night? omg omg omg, thats like sooo horrible.
It was your "Inability is borne of weakness" that set me off I think. It is amazing to me how ignorant American society is sometimes. Some blame can probably be put on Christian conservatism, seeing the disabled as "cursed" or some such nonsense. The fascist condemnation of genetic imperfections and diabilities of this country set me off into a rage.
Now take into consideration that I have multiple sleeping disorders, which drain my energy and keep me from being productive in society. Unlike my mother, it is not a "physical" disability which I might be able to have some kind of control over and can put an effort to fight against.
I just wanted to insert that the lack of care for the marginalized probably is related to something other than American culture or even Christianity. If anything Christianity speaks against what popular culture would believe. If you check out John 9 in the bible, you'll see that disabled are not outcasts to God but are beloved and included in His purposes.
Agreed. I think it has more to do with the conservative perversion of Christianity that causes this. Not spirituality in itself.
Inability is weakness, certainly, but when did our identities and personhood become reduced to what we can do, what we have, race, socioeconomic status, etc...? I think that's the real question. I deal with significant depression and anxiety and I can say that finding the answer to that question either frees you or condemns you. It's worth asking.
The statement was "Inability is borne of weakness" which I totally disagree with from my experiences. Our productivity defining who we are is a very conservative mantra, one I constantly rail against. "Finding your answer" will never free you in American society, one that condemns such imperfections. Depression is a side effect of my sleep apnea and hypersomnia, both of which are seen as 'lazy', 'subhuman' and a 'drain on the system'. And I can't even afford to see a doctor to try to improve that lot in life- not to mention that it is dismissed as 'liberal medicene' by many.
On April 26 2012 13:50 Guilty wrote: Watched the whole video and responses, and I must say the father is absolutely restrained, and I can only hope that I would be equal to the task if the situation came to me. Props.
Yeah I don't have any kids but man I can't imagine how mad I would get if I had knowledge of this. Like obviously he's mad... but man I don't even know how I would act on it.
On April 26 2012 12:43 Cyro wrote: Young teachers etc are generally careless and unprofessional.. ive seen a few even talk about a one night stand the night before in earshot of a class full of young children (~7-9yrs old?)
omg, they hear that people are having sex? they don't tell them that the bee was flying to the flower yesterday night? omg omg omg, thats like sooo horrible.
His point was that young teachers can be unprofessional, meaning that it's not the teacher's right or role to introduce or discuss a topic like sex with children at a time when they're far from puberty. It's not that they're not being euphemistic enough. It ought to be up to the decision of the parents when to educate their children and teachers doing so is not professional conduct.
The issue of ill-prepared or inexperienced teachers is probably an issue in urban schools as much as it is with special education. maybe the difference is that it's easier for educators in urban schools to get out after 1-2 years early in their teaching experience whereas it doesn't seem like specialized educators like those that work with disabled children can just switch out to "easier" students.
Pretty powerful video, damn that stuff is fucked up. I don't have kids, but I would be so angry if anyone did something like this to my kid. Way to go, Akian's father, way to go!
On April 26 2012 10:33 RoosterSamurai wrote: Isn't it against the rules to record audio/video inside of a school? I'm employed by the college I used to attend, and if someone were video or audio recording without the consent of everyone in the room, I'd have to have security remove them.
Yep - It's also against the rules to do what these teachers were doing. When they're lying to parents and their administrators what else can they do. I'm sure they'll let it slide as a lesser evil in this regard.
In college / university its mostly to prevent recording and distributing lectures or class material - completely irrelevant to this. They would not have to worry about this kind of problem as by that age it would just never slide more than an hour without it being brought up in some student organized protest.
The policy is not to avoid disturbing/copying class material. If they were just wandering around the hallway quietly with a camcorder, we'd have to ask them to stop or leave. And I never said what the teachers did wasn't wrong.
Who cares if its against the rules. Sometimes you might have to break a few rules to see justice served.
On April 26 2012 10:13 cscarfo1 wrote: It's really sad especially because this is in my school district. And it angers me even more due to the fact the teacher was re-assigned to my high school
Get everyone in their class to act autistic on their first week. Who knows what might happen...
Oh my goodness. People like this should never be allowed to educate ANYONE. What's the point of being fired if you just simply apply to work somewhere else? The cycle doesn't stop by just kicking someone out of a school. This is disgusting.
I worked in a hospital once and you can believe me people like to be evil towards people who cant fight back... When i realized that i was so sad for about few month then i stoped working there becouse i couldnt take it anymore. Others were noticing it as well but people like to close the eyes to such cases. And i didnt know what to do myself. I mean there is a lack of personal and they are usually doing a good job with the patients but sometimes someone is aggresive towards those people who cant really speak for themselve or are unable to even really realise what happens. It teached me that people are actually evil on daily bases and that it is hard work to stay focused on being nice and good to everyone.
Anyway nothing to do with this case still it reminded me of it.
Appeal to emotion generally ends badly. As far as I know, this man has legal methods to protect his child. Posting a video on youtube isn't one of them. That's just another form of public lynching. I can't caution neither of the parties in this story.
We already had a debate on autism last week so you guys can look for that if you want.
special education for the severaly disabled is a trip from what i understand from people that i know. not a whole lot of teaching happens, and it gets very hard to manage the students as they get into their teens. i absolutely do not condone the teachers' behavior, but i can't say im surprised. i really haven't heard anything positive about special education for the severely disabled.
something to think about is that america's school systems get a little worse every time they have to dump money into paying lawyers. kind of like our healthcare system, actually.
My math teacher was a drunk. My teacher in German was the worst. She actually spent an entire hour telling all of us how our dreams in life would never come through and/or how she would be thankful she wouldn't have anything to do with us at that point My teacher in Danish just yelled at some kids specifically for making small errors in their assignments that would be totally normally and that everyone did but apparantly it was way worse than when some others did it. She just spent her time trying to degrade some of the kids. And the inspector spent all the money that the school was given on his own salary and on a yearly trip to Japan.
Nordagerskolen. The place where childrens future is destoryed :p
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
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Sounds like someone is seeking attention? Well you achieved it. How do you feel now? Saticefied?
Well she needs to find another kind of job that doesn't invole children. There must be other cases like this one that don't make the news. This all saddens me a lot. Those couple of rotten apples in the human society. Well what can you say than it's apparently part of the human nature. Maybe some people just think those things but don't say it. And others do.
While I certainly feel for the points the man brings up, I don't think it's very smart of him to be so specific about who were involved, before the internet goes all lynch mob on them. We have a legal system for a reason.
If I were him I'd try lobbying more with local congress folk. The video is fine, but if it is for raising awareness to the issue at the core of this, why not leave out the location or the names?
This is very disturbing to me. I have authism (although not as severe as Akian) and I go to a special school as well and I cant imagine being bullied like this. These people should be fired and never allowed to teach again.
On April 26 2012 22:31 Fryght wrote: While I certainly feel for the points the man brings up, I don't think it's very smart of him to be so specific about who were involved, before the internet goes all lynch mob on them. We have a legal system for a reason.
If I were him I'd try lobbying more with local congress folk. The video is fine, but if it is for raising awareness to the issue at the core of this, why not leave out the location or the names?
I have no idea how bad things are over on reddit or other sites at the moment, but my guess would be that he assumed leaving the last names out will be enough. I kind of doubt that is the case though if you consider other cases where "the internet" wanted to find out personal details of someone. =S
Watched 15 minutes of it. Wasn't as bad as I hoped (for the father's sake), so it won't get advertised on national, national media like the Martin case. I hate tenure.
On April 26 2012 10:33 RoosterSamurai wrote: Isn't it against the rules to record audio/video inside of a school? I'm employed by the college I used to attend, and if someone were video or audio recording without the consent of everyone in the room, I'd have to have security remove them.
Yep - It's also against the rules to do what these teachers were doing. When they're lying to parents and their administrators what else can they do. I'm sure they'll let it slide as a lesser evil in this regard.
In college / university its mostly to prevent recording and distributing lectures or class material - completely irrelevant to this. They would not have to worry about this kind of problem as by that age it would just never slide more than an hour without it being brought up in some student organized protest.
The policy is not to avoid disturbing/copying class material. If they were just wandering around the hallway quietly with a camcorder, we'd have to ask them to stop or leave. And I never said what the teachers did wasn't wrong.
Who cares if its against the rules. Sometimes you might have to break a few rules to see justice served.
After a few minutes through the video, I was actually hoping it would end with the father beating up the teacher ... even though it would have made the message much less valuable ...
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
It happens a lot less nowadays than it did before. Modern society is structured on the principle that the strong provide for the weak, and that everyone has a right to life regardless of their fitness. This is not how nature works, obviously, and a long time ago, people born with disabilities didn't live long enough for this kind of thing to happen to them.
By the way, it's unwise to vocalize unpopular opinions. All that can come of it is people responding in anger to your post, like the ones below you, and mods warning/banning you.
On April 26 2012 10:48 Senjai wrote:
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
What if it were your child? What if it were you.
Asshole. There is a difference between weak and unable.
Inability is borne of weakness. Regardless of whether or not he is "right", your argument is invalid; people are hypocrites by nature. A good test of someone's stance on an issue actually avoids making it personal.
Total fucking garbage. I grew up with a mother that had spina bifida, and she never let her disability get in the way to achieve anything. She put forth more parenting effort than I observed from any of my peers' parents. My mother would invite my friends' parents over and many would leave in tears realizing how shit they were. Embarassing for me at the time, but looking back, it was damn good parenting making sure I wan't running with a bad crowd. A good test of someone's stance on an issue does not necessarily mean dismissing anecdotes.
Of course it does. Love for the people close to you will make you want to protect or help them even if, like FoxSC, you believe in "survival of the fittest." I was saying that Senjai's rhetorical question didn't prove anything except that Fox probably values his family more than his values.
When people say "weakness" in this context they don't just mean physically weak, by the way. Weakness, in the broadest sense, is the incapability of doing something, which is why I pointed that out.
By the way, how does your post have anything to do with what I said? Unless you also believe in "survival of the fittest", it's irrelevant (though I'm sorry to hear about your mom).
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
We define ourselves as different from animals. We don't poop in each other's gardens. Survival of the fittest has changed and is irrelevant in an advanced civilization. If it's bad, then how come we build space rockets and tigers are almost extinct?
We established our supremacy over other species with technology, byproducts of our intellect. As technology has progressed and made our lives less demanding, less physical effort has been required to survive, which has led to us becoming physically weaker over the years but more intelligent. Thanks to our reliance on technology, unfavorable genes are more likely to survive.
Survival of the fittest has definitely not become irrelevant, though. All of the skills and and traits that are beneficial to success in modern civilization are become more and more emphasized over things that used to be crucial like physical strength.
' This i acutally a common misconception the ability of humans is to a certain degree their interlect but more it is the ability to work togethor in order to achieve common goals and interesting parallel is some of the greater apes which lack the ability to do things such as share (think about it if everyone went around taking peoples stuff our society would collapse no matter how intelligent we are).
Doesn't surprise me. I remember this one time in high school, I was on programming and the special ed room was across the hall. My seat was by the door so I could see outside. One of the special ed kids was walking down the hall slowly, and one of the special ed teachers started screaming and yelling at him to hurry up. When he didn't, she angrily stomped over, grabbed his arm, and dragged him into the classroom. It was disgusting to watch.
That was so wrong. I can't believe that neither teacher nor aid was sensible enough to realize that what they were doing was wrong in so many ways and take action. Or better, realize beforehand that it was a terrible idea and report whichever teacher started this whole thing...
Oh, and the fact that it is incredibly hard to fire teachers even if they do something like this or worse doesn't help matters much either...
This video is really disturbing and alarming. Any child, special needs or not, with constant verbal battering, will react. They are unfit to be teachers. How they made their way into special needs teaching is beyond me. I believe that teachers of special needs students are paid at a higher rate than those of normal teachers. Their pay is not the issue, though. I am hurt by the actions of the teacher and inactions of a school district.
On April 29 2012 19:46 Voltaire wrote: Doesn't surprise me. I remember this one time in high school, I was on programming and the special ed room was across the hall. My seat was by the door so I could see outside. One of the special ed kids was walking down the hall slowly, and one of the special ed teachers started screaming and yelling at him to hurry up. When he didn't, she angrily stomped over, grabbed his arm, and dragged him into the classroom. It was disgusting to watch.
Sometimes with autistic children you need to take some physical control, but being physically aggressive is not appropriate (as in, take them by the hand and take them with you, rather than telling/asking them to go somewhere, to lead them and go with them). I spent a week at my mum's school, which is for 5~11yos with various special needs (from physical disabilities to autistic kids and various other special needs). When it comes to the autistic kids, it can be very difficult because they need a lot of care and attention. Where I was, they had basically someone specific to look after each autistic kid. You can understand how teachers might get frustrated if they don't have enough support, but that doesn't mean they cant take out that frustration on the kids. My mum's school is very well staffed, considering it's not all autistic kids (one teacher per 5 or 6 kids, plus one member of support staff, so about a 3:1 or less adult:kid ratio in the classroom).
If teachers can't handle special needs, they shouldn't be teaching in that area. If the school isn't giving enough support, then the teachers should be complaining to the right people, and not taking it out on the children.
The teachers have messed up and need to be dealt with, but it might also be a good idea to look at whether there's enough support in place to deal with the children in the first place, so that it doesn't happen again.
I am sure it happens more than we are aware of, I hope all those teachers get fired. If you can't even fake caring for the children (I am a teacher [not special needs though] and know that sometimes you just don't want to be there, at all, but you HAVE to at least fake it until you can make it real again)
There's a proper way to each students with autism... look at intervention programs such as TEACCH, Lovas method (also called ABA or IBI), Greenspan/Floortime or more importantly, PECS (picture exchange communication). I'm sure there's hundreds of teachers who don't even know about theses methods... In these methods, you never use any form of physical control and you always keep oral communication to the basic...
My point is, there's plenty of people doing a BAD job .. and there will always be. That's why you do your research before giving money to someone. You can't accept this kind of behavior from a teacher working in a special class, but you can accept mc'donalds kitchen to screw up your "no-pickle cheeseburger" everytime you order one... because, you know what you're paying for... and expecting it. You don't need a wire to do so... parents are often allowed to visit during class hours
This is a typical case of people in the wrong job. These people should be forced to resign and should not be able to work with children again. And I think that an apology of them is appropriate.
I understand that these kind of jobs can be very taxing but, this is simply not acceptable.
On April 26 2012 11:18 BlackJack wrote: Not sure why this has gone viral. Yeah, she was inappropriate, rude, and not a very good teacher. On the other hand, someone was fired over it, the rest of the teachers seemed to receive some disciplinary action, and the behavior she displayed probably wouldn't even make the top 100 of terrible teachers for the year. Being a special needs teacher is also probably one of the hardest jobs in the world.
The only sensible response to this thread. I agree that they were bad teachers, but the fathers response just seems hysterical to me. I cannot take him seriously, hes overly self-righteous and over the top. I feel like im watching a video about an injustice such as rape or abuse.
I think the dad knew he didn't have much to go on with the recording alone and that is why he made the exaggerated response to every instance. It would have been better if he did not make his speech because for me it immediately puts me in a skeptical mind set without seeing any of the content.
The teacher is wrong but none of it seemed extraordinary except for two of the instances, the part where she talks about her alcoholism and the part where she calls the child a bastard. Though the bastard part was a bit blurry and I'm not sure if that is what she said and the other part sounded like she's talking to someone else though within earshot of the recorder. It is possible that the audio was amplified to hear it, and that is one flaw of not putting the entire audio somewhere, unedited, for the community to judge. Other instances had no real meaning since they had little context, and he needs to place the context in without the attempt to bias the video.
A more effective method would be to get more instances of clear and unmistakable abuse instead of exaggerating weaker cases. Even if he had only the two instances where the teacher was clearly wrong, it would do much better to appeal to the emotion of viewers.
On April 26 2012 10:33 RoosterSamurai wrote: Isn't it against the rules to record audio/video inside of a school? I'm employed by the college I used to attend, and if someone were video or audio recording without the consent of everyone in the room, I'd have to have security remove them.
And then when something like this happens (sans recorded evidence), everyone dismisses it as sensationalized or made up. It would be inadmissable in court, but hopefully you can see that some good can come out of this too. I'm all for rights to privacy, but why is it that things you do at home are up for scrutiny by the surveillance state, but a public incident like this cannot be documented?
If im correct, illegally obtained evidence cannot under any circumstances even be considered in court. Might be wrong though.
I think it's sad that so many people in this thread think that firing the teachers is an appropriate punishment. People get incarcerated and charged huge fines for downloading a couple of songs off the internet; do you really think that's more serious than what happened in that class? Why do you not think that incarceration is a befitting punishment for this?
On April 30 2012 10:41 I_PROTOSSED_MY_HW wrote: I think it's sad that so many people in this thread think that firing the teachers is an appropriate punishment. People get incarcerated and charged huge fines for downloading a couple of songs off the internet; do you really think that's more serious than what happened in that class? Why do you not think that incarceration is a befitting punishment for this?
On April 26 2012 10:45 foxSC wrote: its life, its what happens in nature, strong taking advantage of the weak. just it happens alot more nowadays because there are alot more weak people living now as compared to even 50 or 100 years ago. need to remove the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself. if you have an autistic kid, you should try again imo. survival of the fittest.
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I know I'm getting in late on this but I just found the thread, anyway. You foxSC, are a nutjob or a troll sir. Either way what the world truly needs is less people like YOU.
On April 26 2012 11:18 BlackJack wrote: Not sure why this has gone viral. Yeah, she was inappropriate, rude, and not a very good teacher. On the other hand, someone was fired over it, the rest of the teachers seemed to receive some disciplinary action, and the behavior she displayed probably wouldn't even make the top 100 of terrible teachers for the year. Being a special needs teacher is also probably one of the hardest jobs in the world.
I agree with you that special needs teachers have an extremely tough job. Having said that though, it sounds in the audio as if this kind of behaviour was just par for the course in this class room. If a teacher is that burned out or is just a bad teacher one of the other aids or teachers should pull them aside. Tell them you need counseling or just quit. This kind of thing is unacceptable. Kudos to the dad for taking action.
I have a cousin that has autism and he's about my age and just watch what that man was saying really just about brought a damn tear to my eye. I mean this is a public school system and it just sickens me that people would abuse these kids like that. God knows how many other public school systems are doing this. But this has to stop for the love of God. No kid should be allowed to go threw that and then get sent to jail while the teacher gets to keep her job and talk about how drunk she was and all that other crap. I'm going to try raise awareness to my cousin and see if she can get people over in Arkansas to sign this so we can put a end to this. Fuck the union job w.e bs it is you don't do that to kids and if my kid was being like that i would not only make a vid like what that Gentlemen did but file a fucking lawsuit on the school for not taking action to fix the situation. I hope those people get fired.
EPT
And I hope some "stereotypical" black guy who's ripped goes and beats the crap out of those people.
