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The Venus Project - Page 17

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Maxiper3
Profile Joined June 2012
United States1 Post
June 05 2012 04:57 GMT
#321
This come directly from The Venus Project"s Website.


Resource Based Economy

The term and meaning of a Resource Based Economy was originated by Jacque Fresco. It is a holisticsocio-economic system in which all goods and services are available without the use of money, credits, barter or any other system of debt or servitude. All resources become the common heritage of all of the inhabitants, not just a select few. The premise upon which this system is based is that the Earth is abundant with plentiful resource; our practice of rationing resources through monetary methods is irrelevant and counter productive to our survival.

Modern society has access to highly advanced technology and can make available food, clothing, housing and medical care; update our educational system; and develop a limitless supply of renewable, non-contaminating energy. By supplying an efficiently designed economy, everyone can enjoy a very high standard of living with all of the amenities of a high technological society.

A resource-based economy would utilize existing resources from the land and sea, physical equipment, industrial plants, etc. to enhance the lives of the total population. In an economy based on resources rather than money, we could easily produce all of the necessities of life and provide a high standard of living for all.

Consider the following examples: At the beginning of World War II the US had a mere 600 or so first-class fighting aircraft. We rapidly overcame this short supply by turning out more than 90,000 planes a year. The question at the start of World War II was: Do we have enough funds to produce the required implements of war? The answer was no, we did not have enough money, nor did we have enough gold; but we did have more than enough resources. It was the available resources that enabled the US to achieve the high production and efficiency required to win the war. Unfortunately this is only considered in times of war.

In a resource-based economy all of the world's resources are held as the common heritage of all of Earth's people, thus eventually outgrowing the need for the artificial boundaries that separate people. This is the unifying imperative.

We must emphasize that this approach to global governance has nothing whatever in common with the present aims of an elite to form a world government with themselves and large corporations at the helm, and the vast majority of the world's population subservient to them. Our vision of globalization empowers each and every person on the planet to be the best they can be, not to live in abject subjugation to a corporate governing body.

Our proposals would not only add to the well being of people, but they would also provide the necessary information that would enable them to participate in any area of their competence. The measure of success would be based on the fulfilment of one's individual pursuits rather than the acquisition of wealth, property and power.

At present, we have enough material resources to provide a very high standard of living for all of Earth's inhabitants. Only when population exceeds the carrying capacity of the land do many problems such as greed, crime and violence emerge. By overcoming scarcity, most of the crimes and even the prisons of today's society would no longer be necessary.

A resource-based economy would make it possible to use technology to overcome scarce resources by applying renewable sources of energy, computerizing and automating manufacturing and inventory, designing safe energy-efficient cities and advanced transportation systems, providing universal health care and more relevant education, and most of all by generating a new incentive system based on human and environmental concern.

Many people believe that there is too much technology in the world today, and that technology is the major cause of our environmental pollution. This is not the case. It is the abuse and misuse of technology that should be our major concern. In a more humane civilization, instead of machines displacing people they would shorten the workday, increase the availability of goods and services, and lengthen vacation time. If we utilize new technology to raise the standard of living for all people, then the infusion of machine technology would no longer be a threat.

A resource-based world economy would also involve all-out efforts to develop new, clean, and renewable sources of energy: geothermal; controlled fusion; solar; photovoltaic; wind, wave, and tidal power; and even fuel from the oceans. We would eventually be able to have energy in unlimited quantity that could propel civilization for thousands of years. A resource-based economy must also be committed to the redesign of our cities, transportation systems, and industrial plants, allowing them to be energy efficient, clean, and conveniently serve the needs of all people.

What else would a resource-based economy mean? Technology intelligently and efficiently applied, conserves energy, reduces waste, and provides more leisure time. With automated inventory on a global scale, we can maintain a balance between production and distribution. Only nutritious and healthy food would be available and planned obsolescence would be unnecessary and non-existent in a resource-based economy.

As we outgrow the need for professions based on the monetary system, for instance lawyers, bankers, insurance agents, marketing and advertising personnel, salespersons, and stockbrokers, a considerable amount of waste will be eliminated. Considerable amounts of energy would also be saved by eliminating the duplication of competitive products such as tools, eating utensils, pots, pans and vacuum cleaners. Choice is good. But instead of hundreds of different manufacturing plants and all the paperwork and personnel required to turn out similar products, only a few of the highest quality would be needed to serve the entire population. Our only shortage is the lack of creative thought and intelligence in ourselves and our elected leaders to solve these problems. The most valuable, untapped resource today is human ingenuity.

With the elimination of debt, the fear of losing one's job will no longer be a threat. This assurance, combined with education on how to relate to one another in a much more meaningful way, could considerably reduce both mental and physical stress and leave us free to explore and develop our abilities.

If the thought of eliminating money still troubles you, consider this: If a group of people with gold, diamonds and money were stranded on an island that had no resources such as food, clean air and water, their wealth would be irrelevant to their survival. It is only when resources are scarce that money can be used to control their distribution. One could not, for example, sell the air we breathe or water abundantly flowing down from a mountain stream. Although air and water are valuable, in abundance they cannot be sold.

Money is only important in a society when certain resources for survival must be rationed and the people accept money as an exchange medium for the scarce resources. Money is a social convention, an agreement if you will. It is neither a natural resource nor does it represent one. It is not necessary for survival unless we have been conditioned to accept it as such.
Zariel
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia1290 Posts
June 05 2012 05:46 GMT
#322
A resource-based economy is just another name for Communism without the notation of corruption. Every civilian are equal.

Everyone would be given the same furniture, computer, house, car, education, handbag, wallet etc.... That is because it will be the 'most efficient' 'thing'. Any other product would be considered inferior. Whether your a doctor, trolley collector, repairman or truckie. You will also eat the same food, everyday, every week, because any other food produced will be labelled as inferior/unhealthy. That means, no more McDonalds, KFC, Subway etc....

Education wise, the society (I will refrain from the term government) will allocate you a job in which you will focus upon and that will be your job for the rest of your life, because if you decide to do something else then it won't be efficient, the ONLY choice is to switch with another person who wants to take your job. So if you got allocated as a garbage collector, then well.... your a garbage collector for the rest of your life. Hey... let's go a bit deeper, they will analyse your DNA to see what will be fit for you.

Your personal life would be reduced to little to no choices. Society makes the choice for you.

Prove me wrong. Please do, I beg of you.
sup
radscorpion9
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada2252 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-07 22:54:29
June 07 2012 22:50 GMT
#323
On June 05 2012 13:57 Maxiper3 wrote:
This come directly from The Venus Project"s Website.


Resource Based Economy

+ Show Spoiler +
The term and meaning of a Resource Based Economy was originated by Jacque Fresco. It is a holisticsocio-economic system in which all goods and services are available without the use of money, credits, barter or any other system of debt or servitude. All resources become the common heritage of all of the inhabitants, not just a select few. The premise upon which this system is based is that the Earth is abundant with plentiful resource; our practice of rationing resources through monetary methods is irrelevant and counter productive to our survival.

Modern society has access to highly advanced technology and can make available food, clothing, housing and medical care; update our educational system; and develop a limitless supply of renewable, non-contaminating energy. By supplying an efficiently designed economy, everyone can enjoy a very high standard of living with all of the amenities of a high technological society.

A resource-based economy would utilize existing resources from the land and sea, physical equipment, industrial plants, etc. to enhance the lives of the total population. In an economy based on resources rather than money, we could easily produce all of the necessities of life and provide a high standard of living for all.

Consider the following examples: At the beginning of World War II the US had a mere 600 or so first-class fighting aircraft. We rapidly overcame this short supply by turning out more than 90,000 planes a year. The question at the start of World War II was: Do we have enough funds to produce the required implements of war? The answer was no, we did not have enough money, nor did we have enough gold; but we did have more than enough resources. It was the available resources that enabled the US to achieve the high production and efficiency required to win the war. Unfortunately this is only considered in times of war.

In a resource-based economy all of the world's resources are held as the common heritage of all of Earth's people, thus eventually outgrowing the need for the artificial boundaries that separate people. This is the unifying imperative.

We must emphasize that this approach to global governance has nothing whatever in common with the present aims of an elite to form a world government with themselves and large corporations at the helm, and the vast majority of the world's population subservient to them. Our vision of globalization empowers each and every person on the planet to be the best they can be, not to live in abject subjugation to a corporate governing body.

Our proposals would not only add to the well being of people, but they would also provide the necessary information that would enable them to participate in any area of their competence. The measure of success would be based on the fulfilment of one's individual pursuits rather than the acquisition of wealth, property and power.

At present, we have enough material resources to provide a very high standard of living for all of Earth's inhabitants. Only when population exceeds the carrying capacity of the land do many problems such as greed, crime and violence emerge. By overcoming scarcity, most of the crimes and even the prisons of today's society would no longer be necessary.

A resource-based economy would make it possible to use technology to overcome scarce resources by applying renewable sources of energy, computerizing and automating manufacturing and inventory, designing safe energy-efficient cities and advanced transportation systems, providing universal health care and more relevant education, and most of all by generating a new incentive system based on human and environmental concern.

Many people believe that there is too much technology in the world today, and that technology is the major cause of our environmental pollution. This is not the case. It is the abuse and misuse of technology that should be our major concern. In a more humane civilization, instead of machines displacing people they would shorten the workday, increase the availability of goods and services, and lengthen vacation time. If we utilize new technology to raise the standard of living for all people, then the infusion of machine technology would no longer be a threat.

A resource-based world economy would also involve all-out efforts to develop new, clean, and renewable sources of energy: geothermal; controlled fusion; solar; photovoltaic; wind, wave, and tidal power; and even fuel from the oceans. We would eventually be able to have energy in unlimited quantity that could propel civilization for thousands of years. A resource-based economy must also be committed to the redesign of our cities, transportation systems, and industrial plants, allowing them to be energy efficient, clean, and conveniently serve the needs of all people.

What else would a resource-based economy mean? Technology intelligently and efficiently applied, conserves energy, reduces waste, and provides more leisure time. With automated inventory on a global scale, we can maintain a balance between production and distribution. Only nutritious and healthy food would be available and planned obsolescence would be unnecessary and non-existent in a resource-based economy.

As we outgrow the need for professions based on the monetary system, for instance lawyers, bankers, insurance agents, marketing and advertising personnel, salespersons, and stockbrokers, a considerable amount of waste will be eliminated. Considerable amounts of energy would also be saved by eliminating the duplication of competitive products such as tools, eating utensils, pots, pans and vacuum cleaners. Choice is good. But instead of hundreds of different manufacturing plants and all the paperwork and personnel required to turn out similar products, only a few of the highest quality would be needed to serve the entire population. Our only shortage is the lack of creative thought and intelligence in ourselves and our elected leaders to solve these problems. The most valuable, untapped resource today is human ingenuity.

With the elimination of debt, the fear of losing one's job will no longer be a threat. This assurance, combined with education on how to relate to one another in a much more meaningful way, could considerably reduce both mental and physical stress and leave us free to explore and develop our abilities.

If the thought of eliminating money still troubles you, consider this: If a group of people with gold, diamonds and money were stranded on an island that had no resources such as food, clean air and water, their wealth would be irrelevant to their survival. It is only when resources are scarce that money can be used to control their distribution. One could not, for example, sell the air we breathe or water abundantly flowing down from a mountain stream. Although air and water are valuable, in abundance they cannot be sold.

Money is only important in a society when certain resources for survival must be rationed and the people accept money as an exchange medium for the scarce resources. Money is a social convention, an agreement if you will. It is neither a natural resource nor does it represent one. It is not necessary for survival unless we have been conditioned to accept it as such.



Well as long as we're allowed to quote things from other websites as entire responses

From the Rational Wiki:

Criticisms

Most people view this solution as a "utopian" vision that does not seem to be grounded in reality; in particular because it depends on the idea that people will not always sabotage or compete with one another. Critics of the idea often cite that human self-interest is a deeply ingrained human trait, whereas the Venus Project claims that self-interested behavior is a socialized condition.

Critics will also cite the commonly-held belief that just because one does a day's work, that somehow gives them the right to get paid, and that people will always demand compensation when contributing labor or investing any of themselves into the progress of society. The conclusion is that without some form of monetary compensation, people will have no motivation to participate or contribute in society.

Additional criticisms are based on the idea that even if the system could work in theory, it is highly susceptible to abuse by those in power. To support this, critics cite the historical examples of societies that came the closest to the vision of a centrally planned society, communism, where many goods were only available in sufficient quantity on the black market, because the intelligent resource distributors had decided that the proles did not require bourgeois luxuries, such as shoes.


Edit: grammar..always grammar. Also I find that last line hilarious..."did not require bourgeois luxuries, such as shoes" XD. Yeah I don't think I want Jacque Fresco and a group of elites to decide what I need for me, or any other 80+ year old people.

Edit 2: Jacque fresco is 96 years old!! Holy crap
DeliCiousVP
Profile Joined September 2011
Sweden343 Posts
June 07 2012 23:50 GMT
#324
a resource based economy is built upon solid science. That being said we will see in time what we move towards after the collapse of our current monetary paradigm.
www.youtube.com/user/DeliCiousTZM
Ezod
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada21 Posts
June 08 2012 00:23 GMT
#325
Zeigeist in one sentence: One world goverment is bad, but look at this new one world goverment we can have!.

Be careful because people like to re-package and re-name ideas. It sounds nice in theory, but the problem isn't world goverment...it's whether muderous vultures who care about profit margins and power gain control of it..... and they always package it with justice, love and brotherhood - throw in a few pictures of dead civilians and you can rally a nation into almost anything as history has proved. Be careful.
We all think the same, but our thoughts are divided.
Lynzh
Profile Joined May 2012
Korea (North)17 Posts
June 21 2012 03:52 GMT
#326
The theory behind governing a resource based economy is solid, but people who are opposed to TVPs reasoning disregards this, we cant turn you over, only you can read this.
Sickkiee
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Japan607 Posts
June 21 2012 04:31 GMT
#327
On June 08 2012 08:50 DeliCiousVP wrote:
a resource based economy is built upon solid science. That being said we will see in time what we move towards after the collapse of our current monetary paradigm.


How the fuck is it built upon solid science if the shit doesn't exist yet or it's not financially feasible.

I'm getting sick of all these Zeitgeist posts that don't reply to the logical posts, but say the same bullshit to every post, just worded differently and use youtube videos (because youtube videos are more informational than journals and references quoted in thesis's)

You say that the current government(s) are corrupt, yet you propose one WORLD government. Who's going to be the leader? Some self-educated architecture? Hmm, seems legit.
Lifes too short to be small.
Lynzh
Profile Joined May 2012
Korea (North)17 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-21 16:37:25
June 21 2012 16:34 GMT
#328
On June 21 2012 13:31 Sickkiee wrote:

How the fuck is it built upon solid science


I dont know.

A resource based economy is a simple matter in wording really. What you need is to harvest green energy from;
* Wind
* Solar
* Wave or
Thermal.. Or all of the above.

Then you need to produce food, I dont know how deep you wanna go in this, but agricultural science is proven to be very effective when used as a tool to plant seeds, enrich the soil and harvest your crops.

Then you need to make shelter! How and what you want to build is really up to YOU or scientific method for constructing a shelter made to last.

I think the idea behind the words resource - based - economy is that everyone who wants to build shelter, harvest green energy and produce food together can do so and enjoy its "proven" success.

What I mean by "proven success" is that we already harvest green energy, we already produce food, and last but not least we already construct shelters.

BUT the bureucratic process of doing all these things is so slow it makes me depressed, seriously.

Edited for information.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
June 21 2012 19:28 GMT
#329
On June 22 2012 01:34 Lynzherg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 21 2012 13:31 Sickkiee wrote:

How the fuck is it built upon solid science


I dont know.

A resource based economy is a simple matter in wording really. What you need is to harvest green energy from;
* Wind
* Solar
* Wave or
Thermal.. Or all of the above.

Then you need to produce food, I dont know how deep you wanna go in this, but agricultural science is proven to be very effective when used as a tool to plant seeds, enrich the soil and harvest your crops.

Then you need to make shelter! How and what you want to build is really up to YOU or scientific method for constructing a shelter made to last.

I think the idea behind the words resource - based - economy is that everyone who wants to build shelter, harvest green energy and produce food together can do so and enjoy its "proven" success.

What I mean by "proven success" is that we already harvest green energy, we already produce food, and last but not least we already construct shelters.

BUT the bureucratic process of doing all these things is so slow it makes me depressed, seriously.

Edited for information.


Price helps coordinate production and absent that you need either a direct substitute for price (an algorithm to reduce various inputs to a common term) or rely on central planning. Neither of which work - algorithms don't exist and central planning has severe limitations.

Simply saying 'we'll make stuff' ignores the complexity involved in coordinating production and consumption between many suppliers and many consumers.
Lynzh
Profile Joined May 2012
Korea (North)17 Posts
June 21 2012 20:04 GMT
#330
On June 22 2012 04:28 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Simply saying 'we'll make stuff' ignores the complexity involved in coordinating production and consumption between many suppliers and many consumers.


I agree one hundred percent, it ignores stuff completely. What I wrote was a basic premise of what a resource based economy is about. Would you like me to divulge into specific areas of complexity? I wont. I burn for the resource based economy because I researched it on my own, every piece of information led me to read more and more, this is what shaped my views, all things must start small and expand greater in complexity and coordinating between supply and demand, I do not deny it.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
June 21 2012 23:41 GMT
#331
On June 22 2012 05:04 Lynzherg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 22 2012 04:28 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Simply saying 'we'll make stuff' ignores the complexity involved in coordinating production and consumption between many suppliers and many consumers.


I agree one hundred percent, it ignores stuff completely. What I wrote was a basic premise of what a resource based economy is about. Would you like me to divulge into specific areas of complexity? I wont.


All you did was state random things you would like to exist and have (solar power, food, houses). You did not describe an economic system. So no, you did not even write a basic premise of what a RBE is.
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-22 00:01:27
June 21 2012 23:51 GMT
#332
I would direct any believers to read this:
http://capitalismmagazine.com/2002/08/franciscos-money-speech/

Have a serious think about where your labour is going to come from.
Money is just a means of valuating human effort, according to the laws of supply and demand.
If we really wanted this, it would be something humanity would have created long ago.

On June 22 2012 08:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 22 2012 05:04 Lynzherg wrote:
On June 22 2012 04:28 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Simply saying 'we'll make stuff' ignores the complexity involved in coordinating production and consumption between many suppliers and many consumers.


I agree one hundred percent, it ignores stuff completely. What I wrote was a basic premise of what a resource based economy is about. Would you like me to divulge into specific areas of complexity? I wont.


All you did was state random things you would like to exist and have (solar power, food, houses). You did not describe an economic system. So no, you did not even write a basic premise of what a RBE is.


To expand: Where does the food come from? Who makes the solar panels? Who makes the houses? What jobs would the workers have to abandon? Are people willing to see other services and conveniences get more expensive and/or completely unavailable as a direct result of freeing up these people?

That aside, Food, Shelter and Energy is all we need? Do we not already have all that? The science isn't viable for green energy to be cheap yet, and/or there aren't enough people working in jobs that could help to provide green energy, but under the current system it's already getting there.
Let's face it, some people are just more useful than others. How does your new society plan on recognising that? Why should they put more effort in, even if they are more capable, when they could do nothing and gain the same benefits?
This is why communism doesn't work in it's ideal form.
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
TheGeneralTheoryOf
Profile Joined February 2012
235 Posts
June 22 2012 12:29 GMT
#333
Resource economy is working out pretty well in North Korea so far. Keep up the good work guys, can't wait until the whole planet is as excellent as your country! Dear leader be praised.
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