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President Obama Re-Elected - Page 173

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Hey guys! We'll be closing this thread shortly, but we will make an American politics megathread where we can continue the discussions in here.

The new thread can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383301
RCMDVA
Profile Joined July 2011
United States708 Posts
July 11 2012 16:42 GMT
#3441

Senate majority leader, Harry Reid is actually Romney's biggest defense vs. any attacks on being Mormon.

If anything comes up religion-wise... all you have to do is send camera's over to Harry's office... and he will have to defend Romney.
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
July 11 2012 17:02 GMT
#3442
This does accurately reflect what Mormons actually believe.

DoubleReed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4130 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-11 17:06:05
July 11 2012 17:02 GMT
#3443
Personally I find rather dumb to attack him on Mormonism. Unless there are specific things you would like to question (like the racism which Mitt has already responded to quite admirably), I don't see why it should affect your vote. Let religion be personal.

On July 12 2012 00:56 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2012 20:48 DoubleReed wrote:
Yea, rich people go where the money is. And even if we increased taxes a lot, America would still be the best place to invest in simply because of the technological markets that we have. It's not like people are like "Gee! Taxes are high! I better stop making money now!" People put way too much importance on taxes for investment behavior.


For an investment to be made the expected after tax cash flows need to be high enough to justify the investment and the level of risk involved. So as you raise taxes there will be projects on the margin that never get started.

That's not to say that investors won't still invest - the difference will be how the money gets invested - into existing "safe" projects that don't help the economy much rather than into new ventures that create new jobs.

We have that problem in the economy now, but it is because of risk rather than taxes. Raising taxes would just make the situation worse, unless it was engineered to remove a lot of the uncertainty along with the tax hike.


Yea risk is a serious factor now. Actually taxes could help that problem by putting more faith into our budgets and currency. Balancing budgets is a good way to mitigate the risk.
paralleluniverse
Profile Joined July 2010
4065 Posts
July 11 2012 17:05 GMT
#3444
On July 12 2012 02:02 Defacer wrote:
This does accurately reflect what Mormons actually believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdCEJISKWHc

If we take out the aliens from outer space part, it's no more crazy than normal Christianity.
stevarius
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1394 Posts
July 11 2012 17:07 GMT
#3445
On July 12 2012 02:05 paralleluniverse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 12 2012 02:02 Defacer wrote:
This does accurately reflect what Mormons actually believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdCEJISKWHc

If we take out the aliens from outer space part, it's no more crazy than normal Christianity.


Are you implying aliens from outer space is crazier than an entity you can't physically interact with in any way, shape, or form?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
July 11 2012 17:11 GMT
#3446
On July 12 2012 02:05 paralleluniverse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 12 2012 02:02 Defacer wrote:
This does accurately reflect what Mormons actually believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdCEJISKWHc

If we take out the aliens from outer space part, it's no more crazy than normal Christianity.


I think most Christians would be rightfully offended by the blatant 'remixing' of the Bible in which it's founder casts himself as bigger than Jesus.

paralleluniverse
Profile Joined July 2010
4065 Posts
July 11 2012 17:20 GMT
#3447
On July 12 2012 02:07 stevarius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 12 2012 02:05 paralleluniverse wrote:
On July 12 2012 02:02 Defacer wrote:
This does accurately reflect what Mormons actually believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdCEJISKWHc

If we take out the aliens from outer space part, it's no more crazy than normal Christianity.


Are you implying aliens from outer space is crazier than an entity you can't physically interact with in any way, shape, or form?

People don't find God as crazy as aliens.

But why should I care? I'm an atheist.
DoubleReed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4130 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-11 17:24:54
July 11 2012 17:22 GMT
#3448
On July 12 2012 02:11 Defacer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 12 2012 02:05 paralleluniverse wrote:
On July 12 2012 02:02 Defacer wrote:
This does accurately reflect what Mormons actually believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdCEJISKWHc

If we take out the aliens from outer space part, it's no more crazy than normal Christianity.


I think most Christians would be rightfully offended by the blatant 'remixing' of the Bible in which it's founder casts himself as bigger than Jesus.



Kind of like how Jews are rightfully offended by Christians adding random crap and remixing the Talmud, while claiming that Jesus is their Messiah?
paralleluniverse
Profile Joined July 2010
4065 Posts
July 11 2012 17:23 GMT
#3449
On July 12 2012 02:02 DoubleReed wrote:
Personally I find rather dumb to attack him on Mormonism. Unless there are specific things you would like to question (like the racism which Mitt has already responded to quite admirably), I don't see why it should affect your vote. Let religion be personal.

Show nested quote +
On July 12 2012 00:56 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On July 11 2012 20:48 DoubleReed wrote:
Yea, rich people go where the money is. And even if we increased taxes a lot, America would still be the best place to invest in simply because of the technological markets that we have. It's not like people are like "Gee! Taxes are high! I better stop making money now!" People put way too much importance on taxes for investment behavior.


For an investment to be made the expected after tax cash flows need to be high enough to justify the investment and the level of risk involved. So as you raise taxes there will be projects on the margin that never get started.

That's not to say that investors won't still invest - the difference will be how the money gets invested - into existing "safe" projects that don't help the economy much rather than into new ventures that create new jobs.

We have that problem in the economy now, but it is because of risk rather than taxes. Raising taxes would just make the situation worse, unless it was engineered to remove a lot of the uncertainty along with the tax hike.


Yea risk is a serious factor now. Actually taxes could help that problem by putting more faith into our budgets and currency. Balancing budgets is a good way to mitigate the risk.

From my previous post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=330491&currentpage=170#3400

This is what balance budget rules do:
[image loading]
[image loading]
DoubleReed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4130 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-11 18:45:32
July 11 2012 17:27 GMT
#3450
I meant balancing budgets with revenue increases and how that would affect the markets. I mean the method of budget balancing is pretty important to the point. I'm not advocating austerity.
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-11 17:45:12
July 11 2012 17:43 GMT
#3451
On July 12 2012 02:20 paralleluniverse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 12 2012 02:07 stevarius wrote:
On July 12 2012 02:05 paralleluniverse wrote:
On July 12 2012 02:02 Defacer wrote:
This does accurately reflect what Mormons actually believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdCEJISKWHc

If we take out the aliens from outer space part, it's no more crazy than normal Christianity.


Are you implying aliens from outer space is crazier than an entity you can't physically interact with in any way, shape, or form?

People don't find God as crazy as aliens.

But why should I care? I'm an atheist.


Hey, no argument here. I'm an atheist, too.

I'm just trying to imagine the political climate in America. You can't be a viable candidate without being Christian. Sad but true.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 11 2012 17:49 GMT
#3452
....

“He told us that he had gotten the uniform from his father,” George Romney, then the Governor of Michigan, whose security detail was staffed by uniformed troopers. “He told us that he was using it to pull over drivers on the road. He also had a red flashing light that he would attach to the top of his white Rambler. We thought it was all pretty weird. We all thought, ‘Wow, that’s pretty creepy.’ And after that, we didn’t have much interaction with him.”


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22454 Posts
July 11 2012 18:12 GMT
#3453
Funny how something like impersonating a police officer is a serious offence when someone else does it.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-11 18:32:12
July 11 2012 18:31 GMT
#3454
On July 12 2012 02:49 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
....

Show nested quote +
“He told us that he had gotten the uniform from his father,” George Romney, then the Governor of Michigan, whose security detail was staffed by uniformed troopers. “He told us that he was using it to pull over drivers on the road. He also had a red flashing light that he would attach to the top of his white Rambler. We thought it was all pretty weird. We all thought, ‘Wow, that’s pretty creepy.’ And after that, we didn’t have much interaction with him.”


Source


Wow ... that's something that Ted Bundy would do.

I mean, at minimum, it shows a complete lack of respect for the law, or the necessary trust in law enforcement that is a backbone of a civil society. Normal people don't go around, masquerading as a authority figure so they can abuse the power associated with it.

I can't help but think if a similar story came out about Obama, the Right would be deeply offended.


JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
July 11 2012 18:33 GMT
#3455
On July 12 2012 02:02 DoubleReed wrote:
Personally I find rather dumb to attack him on Mormonism. Unless there are specific things you would like to question (like the racism which Mitt has already responded to quite admirably), I don't see why it should affect your vote. Let religion be personal.

Show nested quote +
On July 12 2012 00:56 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On July 11 2012 20:48 DoubleReed wrote:
Yea, rich people go where the money is. And even if we increased taxes a lot, America would still be the best place to invest in simply because of the technological markets that we have. It's not like people are like "Gee! Taxes are high! I better stop making money now!" People put way too much importance on taxes for investment behavior.


For an investment to be made the expected after tax cash flows need to be high enough to justify the investment and the level of risk involved. So as you raise taxes there will be projects on the margin that never get started.

That's not to say that investors won't still invest - the difference will be how the money gets invested - into existing "safe" projects that don't help the economy much rather than into new ventures that create new jobs.

We have that problem in the economy now, but it is because of risk rather than taxes. Raising taxes would just make the situation worse, unless it was engineered to remove a lot of the uncertainty along with the tax hike.


Yea risk is a serious factor now. Actually taxes could help that problem by putting more faith into our budgets and currency. Balancing budgets is a good way to mitigate the risk.


I agree, additional taxes could certainly help with that so long as they are structured well. Poorly structured tax increases would just make it worse though. The devil is really in the details here.
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
July 11 2012 19:10 GMT
#3456
On July 12 2012 00:51 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Ouch.


Romney put himself in an impossible situation (they will probably never vote for him) and said all of the wrong things.
It's like Obama talking about how the rich need to pay their fair share to a crowd of multi-millionaires.
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
Leporello
Profile Joined January 2011
United States2845 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-11 19:46:15
July 11 2012 19:44 GMT
#3457
On July 12 2012 02:49 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
....

Show nested quote +
“He told us that he had gotten the uniform from his father,” George Romney, then the Governor of Michigan, whose security detail was staffed by uniformed troopers. “He told us that he was using it to pull over drivers on the road. He also had a red flashing light that he would attach to the top of his white Rambler. We thought it was all pretty weird. We all thought, ‘Wow, that’s pretty creepy.’ And after that, we didn’t have much interaction with him.”


Source


That's incredible.

And yes, if it came out Obama was dressing up as a cop and pulling people over --- it'd make Whitewater look trite. We'd never hear the end of it, ever.

Is it too late for the GOP to find someone else? I can not believe America would elect somebody... wait, nevermind. I just remembered W. landing on an aircraft carrier and realized this is the sort of thing the GOP loves. Privileged people pretending to be civil servants, basically their idea of what government is.
Big water
Epocalypse
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada319 Posts
July 11 2012 19:57 GMT
#3458
On July 11 2012 05:38 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
For the numbers I posted as well as the BLS monthly jobs report as well as most jobs numbers you hear on the news:
Show nested quote +
Government employment includes only civilian employees. Military personnel on active duty are excluded. Employees of the Central Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency, the National Imagery and Mapping Agency, and the Defense Intelligence Agency also are excluded.

http://www.bls.gov/ces/cesfaq.htm


Thanks, That's important when comparing.
bw4life
Epocalypse
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada319 Posts
July 11 2012 20:47 GMT
#3459
Where can I find stats of the size of the middle class in the USA from any date to now?
Also the same for China. China's middle class is booming, and it's no surprise as anytime you introduce freedom to a country the middle class grows. many Austrian school economists have been saying so for decades, Capitalism grows the middle class. But I'd like to see the stats myself.
I'm curious because Obama is claiming to want to protect the middle class. Reducing middle class taxes will definitely help, but at the same time he is looking to raise taxes for anyone making over $250,000 and also increase capital gains taxes hugely.

----
On another note, let's not forget that Obama is pretty religious himself only the media doesn't report on it. I don't know the reason but it seems convenient to separate Repubs from Demos.

Here's the first few quote from Obama about his religion. The dates vary from 2008-present. There are many more out there. Although he doesn't campaign on it, it's entrenched in his public speeches and impossible to ignore.
my faith teaches me that I can sit in church and pray all I want, but I won't be fulfilling God's will unless I go out and do the Lord's work

And let me tell you, these past two years, they have deepened my faith. The presidency has a funny way of making a person feel the need to pray.

It was on those streets, in those neighborhoods, that I first heard God's spirit beckon me. It was there that I felt called to a higher purpose -- His purpose

For me as a Christian, it also coincides with Jesus's teaching that for unto whom much is given, much shall be required,
bw4life
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22454 Posts
July 11 2012 20:52 GMT
#3460
Actualy id be much more inclined to believe Obama isnt religious at all. He is a smart sensible person. However he is also an American Politian, a vocation in which being religious is pretty much mandatory.

Its one thing to tell a journalist you believe in god, its quite another to actualy believe in one.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
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