EPTEveryone should watch this.
A bid drunk so i will watch it again tomorrow.
But absolutely amazing.
Hjernevask (Brainwash) Science Documentary - Page 4
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Chilling5pr33
Germany518 Posts
Everyone should watch this. A bid drunk so i will watch it again tomorrow. But absolutely amazing. | ||
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Vorenius
Denmark1979 Posts
On April 08 2012 11:30 WolfintheSheep wrote: "Because of men"? That's an extremely narrow-minded statement there...basically every single inequality stems from biological roles effecting social roles. I'm not saying women are "responsible" for those listed inequalities. But it's equally as stupid to say that men are "responsible" for being the dominant gender. Actually they are. In my experience women are their own worst enemies and I've even seen a few studies that supports just that. A screenplay was sent to various producers and agent for feedback, but half was sent from a female name and the other half from a male. After recieving feedback the female version was rated significantly lower than the male. So men are discriminating against women to secure their own positions, right? Wrong. After filtering the results the male producers rated the male and female writers roughly the same while the female producers were the ones responsible for the discrimination against women... (It's a rough summary of the experiment. I don't have a source for it sorry :/ ) | ||
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shinosai
United States1577 Posts
On April 08 2012 07:59 sunprince wrote: Women have far more privileges than merely looks. Here's a partial list of female privileges: As a woman: 1. I have a much lower chance of being murdered than a man. 2. I have a much lower chance of being driven to successfully commit suicide than a man. 3. I have a lower chance of being a victim of a violent assault than a man. 4. I have probably been taught that it is acceptable to cry. 5. I will probably live longer than the average man. 6. Society probably won't see my overall worthiness as a person being exclusively tied to how high up in the hierarchy I rise. 7. I have a much better chance of being considered to be a worthy mate, even if I’m unemployed with little money, than a man. 8. I am given much greater latitude to form close, intimate friendships than a man is. 9. My chance of suffering a work-related injury or illness is significantly lower than a man’s. 10. My chance of being killed on the job is a tiny fraction of a man’s. 11. If I shy away from fights, it is unlikely that this will damage my status or call into question my worthiness as a sex partner. 12. If I lack the capacity for violence, this generally won't be seen as a damning personal deficiency. 13. If I was born in North America since WWII, my genitals were almost certainly not mutilated soon after birth, without anesthesia. 14. If I attempt to hug a friend in joy, it’s much less likely that my friend will wonder about my sexuality or pull away in unease. 15. If I seek a hug in solace from a close friend, I’ll have much less concern about how they will interpret it or whether my worthiness as a member of my gender will be called into question. 16. I generally am not compelled by the rules of my sex to wear emotional armor in interactions with most people. 17. I am frequently the emotional center of my family. 18. I am allowed to wear clothes that signify ‘vulnerability’, ‘playful openness’, and ’softness’. 19. I am allowed to BE vulnerable, playful, and soft without calling my worthiness as a human being into question. 20. If I interact with other people’s children, I do not have to worry much about the interaction being misinterpreted. 21. I have a much greater chance than a man does of having a sympathetic audience to discuss the unreasonableness of gender demands. 22. I am less likely to be shamed for being sexually inactive than a man. 23. From my late teens through menopause, it's easier for me to find a sex partner at my attractiveness level than for a man. 24. My role in my child’s life is generally seen as more important than the child’s father’s role. I agree, there are plenty of ideologies on both sides of many debates, instead of actual science and logic. I thought I'd revise this list a bit for more accuracy. It's such an absurdly one sided post. As a woman and my priviledges: 1. I have a much higher chance of being sexually assaulted than a man (but at least I won't get murdered!) 2. I am three times as likely to be prescribed anti-depressants (but at least I didn't commit suicide) 3. I I have a much higher chance of being a victim of rape than a man (but at least I'm less likely to be violently hurt) 4. It's acceptable for me to cry. Woohoo! This is such a huge advantage, especially when men self-imposed this own rule on themselves because of their constant narrative that reason > emotion, and women are emotional, hence it's okay for them to cry. Wait, this doesn't seem advantageous at all. 5. I will probably live longer than the average man. Thank God, finally, a legitimate advantage. 6. Society will probably see my overall worthiness as a person being exclusively tied to how attractive I am. I could go on, but I got bored. It's honestly pretty disgusting to read this. It's so much easier for a woman to get a mate, lol, that's the one that pisses me off. Yea, except when picking mates they have to be a lot more cautious. Cause when you pick the wrong person, no big deal, walk away. When she picks the wrong person, well, good luck to her. It usually doesn't end well. edit: I forgot this really special one: 18. I am allowed to wear clothes that signify ‘vulnerability’, ‘playful openness’, and ’softness’. Was this one supposed to be a joke? You're not seriously going to suggest that women are somehow LESS regulated than men on what they wear in social occasions, are you? Just think about this hypothetical: You're going in for a job interview. What do you wear? A suit. No problem. What does a woman wear? Maybe she can wear something "vulnerable" and "open", or maybe she has to wear something more professsional - although maybe that would make her too unfeminine. It's really not clear what she should wear... but it is clear that she will be judged for whatever she does much more harshly than for your difficult decision to wear a suit. At least you know what is expected of you. You can call it a restriction, but it benefits you more than women. | ||
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shinosai
United States1577 Posts
On April 08 2012 11:48 Vorenius wrote: Actually they are. In my experience women are their own worst enemies and I've even seen a few studies that supports just that. A screenplay was sent to various producers and agent for feedback, but half was sent from a female name and the other half from a male. After recieving feedback the female version was rated significantly lower than the male. So men are discriminating against women to secure their own positions, right? Wrong. After filtering the results the male producers rated the male and female writers roughly the same while the female producers were the ones responsible for the discrimination against women... (It's a rough summary of the experiment. I don't have a source for it sorry :/ ) Women are typically the best enforcers of sexism. It's true. And unfortunate. | ||
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Ballack
Norway821 Posts
On April 08 2012 11:30 WolfintheSheep wrote: "Because of men"? That's an extremely narrow-minded statement there...basically every single inequality stems from biological roles effecting social roles. I'm not saying women are "responsible" for those listed inequalities. But it's equally as stupid to say that men are "responsible" for being the dominant gender. What I said is factually true, men do commit more murders than women do, thus men are responsible for said inequality, just as women are responsible for committing less murders than men. I think we differ in the sense that I think people, spesific people, individuals, can have a lot of importance when it comes to this issue. Just saying inequalities are a result of biological roles effecting social roles is not sufficient. Different cultures pretty clearly shows us how perceptions about social roles can be guided and lead towards different results depending on which culture you are observing. Your points is true at it's core, but these fundamentals can be shaped. There has been female leaders in ancient times (Cleopatra for example), which in other parts of the world at the same period was unthinkable. My only point with that earlier post was to say the most glaring inequalities are still present in the western world are still here because of powerful male figures hesitant to do anything about them. The inequalities listed in the previous post are not the same. I'm not saying men are responsible for being the dominant gender, I'm saying in todays' society there is no reasoning for keeping this old notion of "men are the physically stronger sex so they shall rule". If you do not pursue equality that is what will happen, even today. Edit: My coherency is just not there atm. Its 05.41 in Norway right now so I apologize for my bad writing, I'm really tired (damn regame. PartinG had that game)... I will go to bed now and see if I can get my point across in a better fashion tomorrow. | ||
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Drium
United States888 Posts
It's true that, at a basic level, the idea of biological differences between people seems threatening to egalitarian beliefs. Historically it has been the justification for many injustices, but I don't think it has to be that way. We can accept and embrace the differences between us and try to create a society in which one set of differences is not arbitrarily advantaged over others. The problem with ignoring biology altogether is that it leaves it as a weapon for bigots, who use it to say that inequality is inevitable or even justified and that anyone who says otherwise is ignoring "science". | ||
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Akta
447 Posts
On April 08 2012 09:23 Ballack wrote: That what you call male dominated fields had an increase in female students doesn't tell us much though. For example in sweden there has been a large increase in female university students. And before you start thinking that sounds nice and equal, since a lot of people tend to think equality just means advantages for women, females been a majority of the university students in sweden for a while. And because it has to be said after I brought that up, does the decrease in performance from boys in school perhaps have something to do with the measures sweden has taken when it comes to equality?Actually, in Norway the number of females going into "male-dominated" studies like physics and computer science has risen considerably. Does that perhaps have something to do with the measures Norway has taken the last decades when it comes to equality? So numbers agree with the feminists who says society has a lot of blame, which facts can you bring to the table? Edit: Also, there is a difference in saying women's decisionmaking is purely the product of social conditioning, and saying social conditioning has an effect. The amount of female university students does not mean there will be a proportional increase of females in so called male dominated jobs either. Just one factor(and there are many factors) is that the fields with most males, like construction workers, waste collectors, truck drivers etc don't tend to require university degrees. As for the thread topic, our(very useful) preference for categorical thinking seem to trigger all kinds of thinking errors with things like this, I'll take the two most obvious ones. -Feminism is not a synonym for woman. -Like masculism, feminism is not necessarily a synonym for equality. Been a while since I watched Hjernvask but was probably about time that the, I'd almost call it hatred against actual science in parts of the so called women's studies field got some attention. | ||
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10340 Posts
On April 08 2012 07:59 sunprince wrote: Women have far more privileges than merely looks. Here's a partial list of female privileges: As a woman: 1. I have a much lower chance of being murdered than a man. 2. I have a much lower chance of being driven to successfully commit suicide than a man. 3. I have a lower chance of being a victim of a violent assault than a man. 4. I have probably been taught that it is acceptable to cry. 5. I will probably live longer than the average man. 6. Society probably won't see my overall worthiness as a person being exclusively tied to how high up in the hierarchy I rise. 7. I have a much better chance of being considered to be a worthy mate, even if I’m unemployed with little money, than a man. 8. I am given much greater latitude to form close, intimate friendships than a man is. 9. My chance of suffering a work-related injury or illness is significantly lower than a man’s. 10. My chance of being killed on the job is a tiny fraction of a man’s. 11. If I shy away from fights, it is unlikely that this will damage my status or call into question my worthiness as a sex partner. 12. If I lack the capacity for violence, this generally won't be seen as a damning personal deficiency. 13. If I was born in North America since WWII, my genitals were almost certainly not mutilated soon after birth, without anesthesia. 14. If I attempt to hug a friend in joy, it’s much less likely that my friend will wonder about my sexuality or pull away in unease. 15. If I seek a hug in solace from a close friend, I’ll have much less concern about how they will interpret it or whether my worthiness as a member of my gender will be called into question. 16. I generally am not compelled by the rules of my sex to wear emotional armor in interactions with most people. 17. I am frequently the emotional center of my family. 18. I am allowed to wear clothes that signify ‘vulnerability’, ‘playful openness’, and ’softness’. 19. I am allowed to BE vulnerable, playful, and soft without calling my worthiness as a human being into question. 20. If I interact with other people’s children, I do not have to worry much about the interaction being misinterpreted. 21. I have a much greater chance than a man does of having a sympathetic audience to discuss the unreasonableness of gender demands. 22. I am less likely to be shamed for being sexually inactive than a man. 23. From my late teens through menopause, it's easier for me to find a sex partner at my attractiveness level than for a man. 24. My role in my child’s life is generally seen as more important than the child’s father’s role. I agree, there are plenty of ideologies on both sides of many debates, instead of actual science and logic. 1. Men participate in dangerous/illegal activity (or questionable affiliations with scum) more often then women, so, yeah, they're going to get killed more often. 2. True, but women attempt suicide twice as often, and are more likely to be depressed 3. But a much higher rate of sexual assault 4. Sounds like a personal problem 5. With decreased quality of life, is living longer an advantage anymore? 6. Yes it will. 7. true, but that's kind of based on indoctrinated gender roles in Western culture, which are being challenged 8. Not sure where you got this one, I disagree. 9. That's probably because most dangerous work / general labor is done by MEN 10. Please see 9. 11. People don't get into "honor" fights like the good old day: they just get shot or stabbed. 12. a large capacity for violence for a person of any gender strikes me as a sociopath 13. If you were born in the third world, you genital were extremely likely to be mutilated http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation 14. Try having less homophobic male friends 15. See 14. 16. Men and women are both completely guarded and full of shit in most social situations 17. Giving the functionality of families these days (and historically) that doesn't sound like a benefit 18. Women wears shittons of product and spend thousands of dollars on their hair and wardrobe just for public approval, largely the approval of men, and ironically, the approval of women who have no adopted society's unbalanced gender roles 19. Women are called, whores, sluts, skanks, hookers, home-wreckers, and cunts and are harshly judged by their looks, by both men and women 20. Playing with other people's children does NOT sound like an advantage 21. Not true at all. Regardless of social situation or political affiliation, you'll almost always find men sticking up for other men, even if they are sympathetic to women 22. They're also judged harshly for being more sexually active than men. Seems like not being judged and having a good supply of sex is where you really want to be. 23. See 22, but as a man, I certainly can't argue much with this one... Probably because a lot of men will fuck anybody and women just have higher standards. More gender role problems. 24. Just because many children are forced to live without good fathers, doesn't mean their role isn't important. What usually happens is that in broken homes, the mom is struck with the kids, and in cases of abandonment, it's mostly the fathers leaving the children for the mom, really trapping them. And often the mom brings home unsavory "replacements" and the kids have no real father figure, and usually wind up a little fucked up. | ||
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Akta
447 Posts
On April 08 2012 14:23 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Two things pop up when I read yours and the quoted posts. Unlike the first list, I read and hear about the issues in your list in media every day. There are probably many reasons for that lack of equality but for one I always figured the Missing white woman syndrome was mostly a side effect of a larger "syndrome".1. Men participate in dangerous/illegal activity (or questionable affiliations with scum) more often then women, so, yeah, they're going to get killed more often. 2. True, but women attempt suicide twice as often, and are more likely to be depressed 3. But a much higher rate of sexual assault 4. Sounds like a personal problem 5. With decreased quality of life, is living longer an advantage anymore? 6. Yes it will. 7. true, but that's kind of based on indoctrinated gender roles in Western culture, which are being challenged 8. Not sure where you got this one, I disagree. 9. That's probably because most dangerous work / general labor is done by MEN 10. Please see 9. 11. People don't get into "honor" fights like the good old day: they just get shot or stabbed. 12. a large capacity for violence for a person of any gender strikes me as a sociopath 13. If you were born in the third world, you genital were extremely likely to be mutilated http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation 14. Try having less homophobic male friends 15. See 14. 16. Men and women are both completely guarded and full of shit in most social situations 17. Giving the functionality of families these days (and historically) that doesn't sound like a benefit 18. Women wears shittons of product and spend thousands of dollars on their hair and wardrobe just for public approval, largely the approval of men, and ironically, the approval of women who have no adopted society's unbalanced gender roles 19. Women are called, whores, sluts, skanks, hookers, home-wreckers, and cunts and are harshly judged by their looks, by both men and women 20. Playing with other people's children does NOT sound like an advantage 21. Not true at all. Regardless of social situation or political affiliation, you'll almost always find men sticking up for other men, even if they are sympathetic to women 22. They're also judged harshly for being more sexually active than men. Seems like not being judged and having a good supply of sex is where you really want to be. 23. See 22, but as a man, I certainly can't argue much with this one... Probably because a lot of men will fuck anybody and women just have higher standards. More gender role problems. 24. Just because many children are forced to live without good fathers, doesn't mean their role isn't important. What usually happens is that in broken homes, the mom is struck with the kids, and in cases of abandonment, it's mostly the fathers leaving the children for the mom, really trapping them. And often the mom brings home unsavory "replacements" and the kids have no real father figure, and usually wind up a little fucked up. The other thing is, how can most of the bad gender roles in your list possibly change? When it's easier for females to find partners for example, it will have effects. How men and women pick partners should logically have large affects as well, and so on. Do you even think it's possible to make women less picky? Or to change what men and women generally find attractive? | ||
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InFdude
Bulgaria619 Posts
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On April 08 2012 15:26 InFdude wrote: Password? try reading the op. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5275 Posts
"OK so I take it boys and girls are not equal. Which are better, then?" so much for equality. | ||
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Klunssila
United States220 Posts
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
And of course men and women are physiologically different. Women should be treated with respect, like everyone else, but to suggest that they are exactly the same as men is absurd. There are different advantages and disadvantages to being a women and being a man. Gender equality is not gender identity. | ||
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Artok
Netherlands2219 Posts
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JayJay_90
Germany1632 Posts
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On April 08 2012 12:09 shinosai wrote: 18. I am allowed to wear clothes that signify ‘vulnerability’, ‘playful openness’, and ’softness’. Was this one supposed to be a joke? You're not seriously going to suggest that women are somehow LESS regulated than men on what they wear in social occasions, are you? Just think about this hypothetical: You're going in for a job interview. What do you wear? A suit. No problem. What does a woman wear? Maybe she can wear something "vulnerable" and "open", or maybe she has to wear something more professsional - although maybe that would make her too unfeminine. It's really not clear what she should wear... but it is clear that she will be judged for whatever she does much more harshly than for your difficult decision to wear a suit. At least you know what is expected of you. You can call it a restriction, but it benefits you more than women. Did you read what you just wrote before you posted? You just agreed that men are more regulated, they can't choose they need to go with the suit. That can be seen as both an advantage and a disadvantage. You choose to see it as a disadvantage for the girl that it gets hard for her to choose between all of her options. But it could just as well be seen as a disadvantage for the male since he gets unable to express himself through his clothing. It is the same thing with most issues feminism is raving about. Like the thing were women are expected to stay home with the kids. It is a disadvantage since then she gets less pay on the job. But at the same time men are disadvantaged since they are expected to be out earning money and thus it isn't acceptable for them to be home with the kids. If women were smart they would always take the male side and say things like "we wish to allow males to be home more with their kids" rather than "We want to force men to take their responsibility at home with the kids". I can tell you that the deal were the men are working and women are at home is not at all unquestionable in favor of males. I am certain that women wouldn't be happy if they were not allowed to stay home with the kids and the men stayed home while she were forced to work. Working isn't necessarily a privilege, just as staying home with the kids isn't. Feminists however argue that working is so much better than staying home and that males are oppressing females since they take the working role and lets her stay home. But why can't they just accept that both choices have their advantages and disadvantages and it is up to the individuals to choose what is best for them? | ||
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E_minus
Russian Federation60 Posts
It's very curious and a bit alarming. The sociologists completely dismiss biology simply because they "feel" it's not interesting. Every time they were confronted with opposing facts they got flustered, confused and defensive. The documentary definitely highlights a problem with modern sociology. It has become a mix between science and politics. The modern society seems to be obsessed with equality, instead of building up on our strengths. | ||
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silverstyle
Singapore1108 Posts
Interestingly I just had a relatively heated discussion about gender with a friend where my friend refused to admit that there is a biological difference in the brains of males and females lol. | ||
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Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
On April 08 2012 19:12 E_minus wrote: Okay, finished watching these videos. It's very curious and a bit alarming. The sociologists completely dismiss biology simply because they "feel" it's not interesting. Every time they were confronted with opposing facts they got flustered, confused and defensive. The documentary definitely highlights a problem with modern sociology. It has become a mix between science and politics. The modern society seems to be obsessed with equality, instead of building up on our strengths. just for the record, a lot of the people interviewed have claimed that what was shown in the series misrepresented their actual views. Eia is first and foremost an entertainer, like steven colbert or whatever, so to take this series on face value is a bit iffy.., | ||
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