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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.
If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post. |
On July 14 2013 12:37 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 12:27 Ansinjunger wrote:On July 14 2013 12:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2013 12:16 dAPhREAk wrote:On July 14 2013 12:07 Ansinjunger wrote:On July 14 2013 12:05 Blennd wrote:On July 14 2013 12:02 dAPhREAk wrote:
fuck all of the people who convicted zimmerman without a trial or sufficient information (both in the media and the earlier thread) at the outset, and fuck all the people who are now blaming unfair trial practice and "injustice" because zimmerman was declared not guilty. make me sick how ignorant people are. I'm glad we were able to have such an unbiased unofficial moderator for this discussion. That's more or less what I was thinking. I appreciate xDaunt for not being on a high horse when posting in this thread. On July 14 2013 12:07 Tewks44 wrote:On July 14 2013 12:05 Blennd wrote:On July 14 2013 12:02 dAPhREAk wrote:
fuck all of the people who convicted zimmerman without a trial or sufficient information (both in the media and the earlier thread) at the outset, and fuck all the people who are now blaming unfair trial practice and "injustice" because zimmerman was declared not guilty. make me sick how ignorant people are. I'm glad we were able to have such an unbiased unofficial moderator for this discussion. dAPhREAk was a fantastic unofficial moderator, constantly updated with relevant stories and put more dedication into this thread than most people put into their day jobs. His updating of the thread was indeed fantastic, and you could argue that the moderator note set him apart as kind of a moderator for this thread. However, I don't particularly feel the need to be guilt-tripped for initially thinking GZ was guilty back when the other thread was posted. I'd rather thank the informative people in this thread for helping me learn a lot, so this type of remark stings. i have been holding my disgust in check for some of the people in this and the original thread for a long time trying to be objective. now that the case is over, i am not holding back. the ignorance of people continues to amaze me. and before you get on your high horse, pre-trial, i thought zimmerman would be convicted of manslaughter. only after this shitty trial did i change my mind. Yeah, I agree with this. I was fairly skeptical of the charges from the getgo, but I kept an open mind to see what the state was going to present at trial. However, once I saw how grossly inadequate their evidence was, I turned pretty quickly and made up my mind. John Good's testimony sealed the deal. I was absolutely appalled that the State would push this case knowing that John Good was a witness who was going to say the things that he said. Also, I have previously advocated some restraint in terms of dumping on the DA, but after seeing the entirety of the trial, closing arguments, and that post trial press conference, I really hope that someone takes a hard look what went on in this case. I'm glad O'Mara is gonna follow up with it. That's the second best news of the night after the acquittal. It must suck for GZ to hear the state continue to say they think he's guilty. You'd expect that from the family's side and their lawyers, but GZ may encounter people that use that the state still thinks he's guilty as an excuse to harass him. Hate to say it but GZ's life is pretty much screwed over almost as bad as that lady that was acquitted a year ago that killed her baby. His best bet would be to move the hell out of the USA ASAP a long with a name change.
Or make millions off of book deals + interviews.
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On July 14 2013 12:38 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 12:37 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On July 14 2013 12:27 Ansinjunger wrote:On July 14 2013 12:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2013 12:16 dAPhREAk wrote:On July 14 2013 12:07 Ansinjunger wrote:On July 14 2013 12:05 Blennd wrote:On July 14 2013 12:02 dAPhREAk wrote:
fuck all of the people who convicted zimmerman without a trial or sufficient information (both in the media and the earlier thread) at the outset, and fuck all the people who are now blaming unfair trial practice and "injustice" because zimmerman was declared not guilty. make me sick how ignorant people are. I'm glad we were able to have such an unbiased unofficial moderator for this discussion. That's more or less what I was thinking. I appreciate xDaunt for not being on a high horse when posting in this thread. On July 14 2013 12:07 Tewks44 wrote:On July 14 2013 12:05 Blennd wrote:On July 14 2013 12:02 dAPhREAk wrote:
fuck all of the people who convicted zimmerman without a trial or sufficient information (both in the media and the earlier thread) at the outset, and fuck all the people who are now blaming unfair trial practice and "injustice" because zimmerman was declared not guilty. make me sick how ignorant people are. I'm glad we were able to have such an unbiased unofficial moderator for this discussion. dAPhREAk was a fantastic unofficial moderator, constantly updated with relevant stories and put more dedication into this thread than most people put into their day jobs. His updating of the thread was indeed fantastic, and you could argue that the moderator note set him apart as kind of a moderator for this thread. However, I don't particularly feel the need to be guilt-tripped for initially thinking GZ was guilty back when the other thread was posted. I'd rather thank the informative people in this thread for helping me learn a lot, so this type of remark stings. i have been holding my disgust in check for some of the people in this and the original thread for a long time trying to be objective. now that the case is over, i am not holding back. the ignorance of people continues to amaze me. and before you get on your high horse, pre-trial, i thought zimmerman would be convicted of manslaughter. only after this shitty trial did i change my mind. Yeah, I agree with this. I was fairly skeptical of the charges from the getgo, but I kept an open mind to see what the state was going to present at trial. However, once I saw how grossly inadequate their evidence was, I turned pretty quickly and made up my mind. John Good's testimony sealed the deal. I was absolutely appalled that the State would push this case knowing that John Good was a witness who was going to say the things that he said. Also, I have previously advocated some restraint in terms of dumping on the DA, but after seeing the entirety of the trial, closing arguments, and that post trial press conference, I really hope that someone takes a hard look what went on in this case. I'm glad O'Mara is gonna follow up with it. That's the second best news of the night after the acquittal. It must suck for GZ to hear the state continue to say they think he's guilty. You'd expect that from the family's side and their lawyers, but GZ may encounter people that use that the state still thinks he's guilty as an excuse to harass him. Hate to say it but GZ's life is pretty much screwed over almost as bad as that lady that was acquitted a year ago that killed her baby. His best bet would be to move the hell out of the USA ASAP a long with a name change. Or make millions off of book deals + interviews.
pretty much guaranteed O'Mare will write a book. has to get his money somehow.
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On July 14 2013 12:38 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 12:37 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On July 14 2013 12:27 Ansinjunger wrote:On July 14 2013 12:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2013 12:16 dAPhREAk wrote:On July 14 2013 12:07 Ansinjunger wrote:On July 14 2013 12:05 Blennd wrote:On July 14 2013 12:02 dAPhREAk wrote:
fuck all of the people who convicted zimmerman without a trial or sufficient information (both in the media and the earlier thread) at the outset, and fuck all the people who are now blaming unfair trial practice and "injustice" because zimmerman was declared not guilty. make me sick how ignorant people are. I'm glad we were able to have such an unbiased unofficial moderator for this discussion. That's more or less what I was thinking. I appreciate xDaunt for not being on a high horse when posting in this thread. On July 14 2013 12:07 Tewks44 wrote:On July 14 2013 12:05 Blennd wrote:On July 14 2013 12:02 dAPhREAk wrote:
fuck all of the people who convicted zimmerman without a trial or sufficient information (both in the media and the earlier thread) at the outset, and fuck all the people who are now blaming unfair trial practice and "injustice" because zimmerman was declared not guilty. make me sick how ignorant people are. I'm glad we were able to have such an unbiased unofficial moderator for this discussion. dAPhREAk was a fantastic unofficial moderator, constantly updated with relevant stories and put more dedication into this thread than most people put into their day jobs. His updating of the thread was indeed fantastic, and you could argue that the moderator note set him apart as kind of a moderator for this thread. However, I don't particularly feel the need to be guilt-tripped for initially thinking GZ was guilty back when the other thread was posted. I'd rather thank the informative people in this thread for helping me learn a lot, so this type of remark stings. i have been holding my disgust in check for some of the people in this and the original thread for a long time trying to be objective. now that the case is over, i am not holding back. the ignorance of people continues to amaze me. and before you get on your high horse, pre-trial, i thought zimmerman would be convicted of manslaughter. only after this shitty trial did i change my mind. Yeah, I agree with this. I was fairly skeptical of the charges from the getgo, but I kept an open mind to see what the state was going to present at trial. However, once I saw how grossly inadequate their evidence was, I turned pretty quickly and made up my mind. John Good's testimony sealed the deal. I was absolutely appalled that the State would push this case knowing that John Good was a witness who was going to say the things that he said. Also, I have previously advocated some restraint in terms of dumping on the DA, but after seeing the entirety of the trial, closing arguments, and that post trial press conference, I really hope that someone takes a hard look what went on in this case. I'm glad O'Mara is gonna follow up with it. That's the second best news of the night after the acquittal. It must suck for GZ to hear the state continue to say they think he's guilty. You'd expect that from the family's side and their lawyers, but GZ may encounter people that use that the state still thinks he's guilty as an excuse to harass him. Hate to say it but GZ's life is pretty much screwed over almost as bad as that lady that was acquitted a year ago that killed her baby. His best bet would be to move the hell out of the USA ASAP a long with a name change. Or make millions off of book deals + interviews.
He can still do that while moving out of the country though.
I'm sure that he'll make a good amount from books & what not.
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On July 14 2013 12:37 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 12:27 Ansinjunger wrote:On July 14 2013 12:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2013 12:16 dAPhREAk wrote:On July 14 2013 12:07 Ansinjunger wrote:On July 14 2013 12:05 Blennd wrote:On July 14 2013 12:02 dAPhREAk wrote:
fuck all of the people who convicted zimmerman without a trial or sufficient information (both in the media and the earlier thread) at the outset, and fuck all the people who are now blaming unfair trial practice and "injustice" because zimmerman was declared not guilty. make me sick how ignorant people are. I'm glad we were able to have such an unbiased unofficial moderator for this discussion. That's more or less what I was thinking. I appreciate xDaunt for not being on a high horse when posting in this thread. On July 14 2013 12:07 Tewks44 wrote:On July 14 2013 12:05 Blennd wrote:On July 14 2013 12:02 dAPhREAk wrote:
fuck all of the people who convicted zimmerman without a trial or sufficient information (both in the media and the earlier thread) at the outset, and fuck all the people who are now blaming unfair trial practice and "injustice" because zimmerman was declared not guilty. make me sick how ignorant people are. I'm glad we were able to have such an unbiased unofficial moderator for this discussion. dAPhREAk was a fantastic unofficial moderator, constantly updated with relevant stories and put more dedication into this thread than most people put into their day jobs. His updating of the thread was indeed fantastic, and you could argue that the moderator note set him apart as kind of a moderator for this thread. However, I don't particularly feel the need to be guilt-tripped for initially thinking GZ was guilty back when the other thread was posted. I'd rather thank the informative people in this thread for helping me learn a lot, so this type of remark stings. i have been holding my disgust in check for some of the people in this and the original thread for a long time trying to be objective. now that the case is over, i am not holding back. the ignorance of people continues to amaze me. and before you get on your high horse, pre-trial, i thought zimmerman would be convicted of manslaughter. only after this shitty trial did i change my mind. Yeah, I agree with this. I was fairly skeptical of the charges from the getgo, but I kept an open mind to see what the state was going to present at trial. However, once I saw how grossly inadequate their evidence was, I turned pretty quickly and made up my mind. John Good's testimony sealed the deal. I was absolutely appalled that the State would push this case knowing that John Good was a witness who was going to say the things that he said. Also, I have previously advocated some restraint in terms of dumping on the DA, but after seeing the entirety of the trial, closing arguments, and that post trial press conference, I really hope that someone takes a hard look what went on in this case. I'm glad O'Mara is gonna follow up with it. That's the second best news of the night after the acquittal. It must suck for GZ to hear the state continue to say they think he's guilty. You'd expect that from the family's side and their lawyers, but GZ may encounter people that use that the state still thinks he's guilty as an excuse to harass him. Hate to say it but GZ's life is pretty much screwed over almost as bad as that lady that was acquitted a year ago that killed her baby. His best bet would be to move the hell out of the USA ASAP a long with a name change.
She got a book/movie deal, and I think a civil settlement against some news network. Zimmerman also has a civil suit against ABC iirc. Those kinds of things pay pretty well, he doesn't really NEED to find work.
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Piers Morgan is a fucking asshole.
EDIT: Sorry for the language. But he beating up on Zimmerman's brother for no reason.
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On July 14 2013 12:36 kmillz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 12:34 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 14 2013 12:30 kmillz wrote:On July 14 2013 12:26 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 14 2013 12:20 Tewks44 wrote:On July 14 2013 12:14 ZapRoffo wrote:
Anyone want to convince me (someone who didn't really follow the details of the case) that there was no racial profiling and attempt to vigilante by Zimmerman, other than it just being a matter of belief with no evidence either way--at which point I will adamantly believe there was?
I need filled in and my queries keep being ignored. Well, the problem is these questions aren't really relevant to the case. My opinion, I think it's likely that Zimmerman profiled Martin, and I think he definitely was acting as kind of a "wanna-be-cop" to use the prosecution's term. However the relevant question is whether or not Zimmerman felt as if he was in danger of severe bodily harm because this would justify the use of self defense. I'm not just interested in the trial, I'm interested in the full moral dimensions, and this thread is titled Shooting of Trayvon Martin, not Trial for the Shooting of Trayvon Martin so I think it's still within the scope. I asked if anyone wanted to convince me, not force you to convince me, I don't get the hostility. On July 14 2013 12:26 kmillz wrote:On July 14 2013 12:22 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 14 2013 12:17 kmillz wrote:On July 14 2013 12:14 ZapRoffo wrote:
Anyone want to convince me (someone who didn't really follow the details of the case) that there was no racial profiling and attempt to vigilante by Zimmerman, other than it just being a matter of belief with no evidence either way--at which point I will adamantly believe there was?
I need filled in and my queries keep being ignored. Because there is no evidence that he was racial profiling. Reporting someone and them being black does not make it racial profiling. If that were the case you could call every instance of reporting a potential criminal of a different race as "racial profiling". Like I said, no concrete evidence of it being so doesn't mean anything to me, I'm not a jury or a research task force. I can act on intuition, and I just want to see if there are any clear facts flying right in the face of my intuition that can be clearly delineated. Which there doesn't seem to be. I'm just asking for personal reasons. Can you convince me that there are no unicorns? We have no proof of unicorns but I'm still skeptical. No I don't care to. Does your intuition tell you there are probably unicorns, I don't really care? I just thought people might care to have an opportunity to enlighten me. My intuition is telling me that you are overtly judgmental. Did you even read the other people's post who made some valid reasons for why it makes no sense for him to have been racially profiling? I saw, I take it into account but it doesn't really convince me, which is fine. I'm out now, no need to argue directed at me anymore. You're right..George probably did all of those kind acts to African Americans to get off the "racist radar". I don't really know more to say. I don't expect any "evidence" of him not being racist will convince you.
I'm not saying he's a raging racist, but people can do nice things for black people and also still have inherent attitudes about them that are negative and fearful. I believe this happens way more often than outright "I hate black people" racism.
Also just to say where some of my intuition comes from, I have been to gated communities in Florida and it always weirds me out how what it looks like--every single black person I see is in a service job doing things for well-to-do non-blacks. I don't think it's healthy, and it wouldn't be hard to develop a "see black person walking as if he lives there"->"something's wrong" attitude.
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Zimmerman was and still is guilty in the court of public opinion just because of how it all played out in the media largely thanks to the efforts of certain groups.
Conversely, the prosecution did a pretty poor job of actually making him seem guilty of anything other than being stupid and following him that night. The evidence really wasn't on Trayvon's side.
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On July 14 2013 12:41 ZapRoffo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 12:36 kmillz wrote:On July 14 2013 12:34 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 14 2013 12:30 kmillz wrote:On July 14 2013 12:26 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 14 2013 12:20 Tewks44 wrote:On July 14 2013 12:14 ZapRoffo wrote:
Anyone want to convince me (someone who didn't really follow the details of the case) that there was no racial profiling and attempt to vigilante by Zimmerman, other than it just being a matter of belief with no evidence either way--at which point I will adamantly believe there was?
I need filled in and my queries keep being ignored. Well, the problem is these questions aren't really relevant to the case. My opinion, I think it's likely that Zimmerman profiled Martin, and I think he definitely was acting as kind of a "wanna-be-cop" to use the prosecution's term. However the relevant question is whether or not Zimmerman felt as if he was in danger of severe bodily harm because this would justify the use of self defense. I'm not just interested in the trial, I'm interested in the full moral dimensions, and this thread is titled Shooting of Trayvon Martin, not Trial for the Shooting of Trayvon Martin so I think it's still within the scope. I asked if anyone wanted to convince me, not force you to convince me, I don't get the hostility. On July 14 2013 12:26 kmillz wrote:On July 14 2013 12:22 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 14 2013 12:17 kmillz wrote:On July 14 2013 12:14 ZapRoffo wrote:
Anyone want to convince me (someone who didn't really follow the details of the case) that there was no racial profiling and attempt to vigilante by Zimmerman, other than it just being a matter of belief with no evidence either way--at which point I will adamantly believe there was?
I need filled in and my queries keep being ignored. Because there is no evidence that he was racial profiling. Reporting someone and them being black does not make it racial profiling. If that were the case you could call every instance of reporting a potential criminal of a different race as "racial profiling". Like I said, no concrete evidence of it being so doesn't mean anything to me, I'm not a jury or a research task force. I can act on intuition, and I just want to see if there are any clear facts flying right in the face of my intuition that can be clearly delineated. Which there doesn't seem to be. I'm just asking for personal reasons. Can you convince me that there are no unicorns? We have no proof of unicorns but I'm still skeptical. No I don't care to. Does your intuition tell you there are probably unicorns, I don't really care? I just thought people might care to have an opportunity to enlighten me. My intuition is telling me that you are overtly judgmental. Did you even read the other people's post who made some valid reasons for why it makes no sense for him to have been racially profiling? I saw, I take it into account but it doesn't really convince me, which is fine. I'm out now, no need to argue directed at me anymore. You're right..George probably did all of those kind acts to African Americans to get off the "racist radar". I don't really know more to say. I don't expect any "evidence" of him not being racist will convince you. I'm not saying he's a raging racist, but people can do nice things for black people and also still have inherent attitudes about them that are negative and fearful. I believe this happens way more often than outright "I hate black people" racism.
what makes you believe that zimmerman is a racist? i am curious.
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On July 14 2013 12:39 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 12:38 wei2coolman wrote:On July 14 2013 12:37 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On July 14 2013 12:27 Ansinjunger wrote:On July 14 2013 12:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2013 12:16 dAPhREAk wrote:On July 14 2013 12:07 Ansinjunger wrote:On July 14 2013 12:05 Blennd wrote:On July 14 2013 12:02 dAPhREAk wrote:
fuck all of the people who convicted zimmerman without a trial or sufficient information (both in the media and the earlier thread) at the outset, and fuck all the people who are now blaming unfair trial practice and "injustice" because zimmerman was declared not guilty. make me sick how ignorant people are. I'm glad we were able to have such an unbiased unofficial moderator for this discussion. That's more or less what I was thinking. I appreciate xDaunt for not being on a high horse when posting in this thread. On July 14 2013 12:07 Tewks44 wrote:On July 14 2013 12:05 Blennd wrote:On July 14 2013 12:02 dAPhREAk wrote:
fuck all of the people who convicted zimmerman without a trial or sufficient information (both in the media and the earlier thread) at the outset, and fuck all the people who are now blaming unfair trial practice and "injustice" because zimmerman was declared not guilty. make me sick how ignorant people are. I'm glad we were able to have such an unbiased unofficial moderator for this discussion. dAPhREAk was a fantastic unofficial moderator, constantly updated with relevant stories and put more dedication into this thread than most people put into their day jobs. His updating of the thread was indeed fantastic, and you could argue that the moderator note set him apart as kind of a moderator for this thread. However, I don't particularly feel the need to be guilt-tripped for initially thinking GZ was guilty back when the other thread was posted. I'd rather thank the informative people in this thread for helping me learn a lot, so this type of remark stings. i have been holding my disgust in check for some of the people in this and the original thread for a long time trying to be objective. now that the case is over, i am not holding back. the ignorance of people continues to amaze me. and before you get on your high horse, pre-trial, i thought zimmerman would be convicted of manslaughter. only after this shitty trial did i change my mind. Yeah, I agree with this. I was fairly skeptical of the charges from the getgo, but I kept an open mind to see what the state was going to present at trial. However, once I saw how grossly inadequate their evidence was, I turned pretty quickly and made up my mind. John Good's testimony sealed the deal. I was absolutely appalled that the State would push this case knowing that John Good was a witness who was going to say the things that he said. Also, I have previously advocated some restraint in terms of dumping on the DA, but after seeing the entirety of the trial, closing arguments, and that post trial press conference, I really hope that someone takes a hard look what went on in this case. I'm glad O'Mara is gonna follow up with it. That's the second best news of the night after the acquittal. It must suck for GZ to hear the state continue to say they think he's guilty. You'd expect that from the family's side and their lawyers, but GZ may encounter people that use that the state still thinks he's guilty as an excuse to harass him. Hate to say it but GZ's life is pretty much screwed over almost as bad as that lady that was acquitted a year ago that killed her baby. His best bet would be to move the hell out of the USA ASAP a long with a name change. Or make millions off of book deals + interviews. pretty much guaranteed O'Mare will write a book. has to get his money somehow.
I forget exactly what the rule is, but there's some kind of ethical prohibition on writing books about cases. Are lawyers only prohibited from getting book rights as part of their fees or is there a broader prohibition?
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On July 14 2013 12:41 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 12:39 dAPhREAk wrote:On July 14 2013 12:38 wei2coolman wrote:On July 14 2013 12:37 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On July 14 2013 12:27 Ansinjunger wrote:On July 14 2013 12:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2013 12:16 dAPhREAk wrote:On July 14 2013 12:07 Ansinjunger wrote:On July 14 2013 12:05 Blennd wrote:On July 14 2013 12:02 dAPhREAk wrote:
fuck all of the people who convicted zimmerman without a trial or sufficient information (both in the media and the earlier thread) at the outset, and fuck all the people who are now blaming unfair trial practice and "injustice" because zimmerman was declared not guilty. make me sick how ignorant people are. I'm glad we were able to have such an unbiased unofficial moderator for this discussion. That's more or less what I was thinking. I appreciate xDaunt for not being on a high horse when posting in this thread. On July 14 2013 12:07 Tewks44 wrote:On July 14 2013 12:05 Blennd wrote:
[quote]
I'm glad we were able to have such an unbiased unofficial moderator for this discussion. dAPhREAk was a fantastic unofficial moderator, constantly updated with relevant stories and put more dedication into this thread than most people put into their day jobs. His updating of the thread was indeed fantastic, and you could argue that the moderator note set him apart as kind of a moderator for this thread. However, I don't particularly feel the need to be guilt-tripped for initially thinking GZ was guilty back when the other thread was posted. I'd rather thank the informative people in this thread for helping me learn a lot, so this type of remark stings. i have been holding my disgust in check for some of the people in this and the original thread for a long time trying to be objective. now that the case is over, i am not holding back. the ignorance of people continues to amaze me. and before you get on your high horse, pre-trial, i thought zimmerman would be convicted of manslaughter. only after this shitty trial did i change my mind. Yeah, I agree with this. I was fairly skeptical of the charges from the getgo, but I kept an open mind to see what the state was going to present at trial. However, once I saw how grossly inadequate their evidence was, I turned pretty quickly and made up my mind. John Good's testimony sealed the deal. I was absolutely appalled that the State would push this case knowing that John Good was a witness who was going to say the things that he said. Also, I have previously advocated some restraint in terms of dumping on the DA, but after seeing the entirety of the trial, closing arguments, and that post trial press conference, I really hope that someone takes a hard look what went on in this case. I'm glad O'Mara is gonna follow up with it. That's the second best news of the night after the acquittal. It must suck for GZ to hear the state continue to say they think he's guilty. You'd expect that from the family's side and their lawyers, but GZ may encounter people that use that the state still thinks he's guilty as an excuse to harass him. Hate to say it but GZ's life is pretty much screwed over almost as bad as that lady that was acquitted a year ago that killed her baby. His best bet would be to move the hell out of the USA ASAP a long with a name change. Or make millions off of book deals + interviews. pretty much guaranteed O'Mare will write a book. has to get his money somehow. I forget exactly what the rule is, but there's some kind of ethical prohibition on writing books about cases. Are lawyers only prohibited from getting book rights as part of their fees or is there a broader prohibition?
there are son of sam laws for defendants who are convicted. never heard of anything for attorneys or acquitted defendants. i imagine that would be unconstitutional (first amendment).
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On July 14 2013 12:42 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 12:41 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2013 12:39 dAPhREAk wrote:On July 14 2013 12:38 wei2coolman wrote:On July 14 2013 12:37 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On July 14 2013 12:27 Ansinjunger wrote:On July 14 2013 12:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2013 12:16 dAPhREAk wrote:On July 14 2013 12:07 Ansinjunger wrote:On July 14 2013 12:05 Blennd wrote:
[quote]
I'm glad we were able to have such an unbiased unofficial moderator for this discussion. That's more or less what I was thinking. I appreciate xDaunt for not being on a high horse when posting in this thread. On July 14 2013 12:07 Tewks44 wrote:
[quote]
dAPhREAk was a fantastic unofficial moderator, constantly updated with relevant stories and put more dedication into this thread than most people put into their day jobs. His updating of the thread was indeed fantastic, and you could argue that the moderator note set him apart as kind of a moderator for this thread. However, I don't particularly feel the need to be guilt-tripped for initially thinking GZ was guilty back when the other thread was posted. I'd rather thank the informative people in this thread for helping me learn a lot, so this type of remark stings. i have been holding my disgust in check for some of the people in this and the original thread for a long time trying to be objective. now that the case is over, i am not holding back. the ignorance of people continues to amaze me. and before you get on your high horse, pre-trial, i thought zimmerman would be convicted of manslaughter. only after this shitty trial did i change my mind. Yeah, I agree with this. I was fairly skeptical of the charges from the getgo, but I kept an open mind to see what the state was going to present at trial. However, once I saw how grossly inadequate their evidence was, I turned pretty quickly and made up my mind. John Good's testimony sealed the deal. I was absolutely appalled that the State would push this case knowing that John Good was a witness who was going to say the things that he said. Also, I have previously advocated some restraint in terms of dumping on the DA, but after seeing the entirety of the trial, closing arguments, and that post trial press conference, I really hope that someone takes a hard look what went on in this case. I'm glad O'Mara is gonna follow up with it. That's the second best news of the night after the acquittal. It must suck for GZ to hear the state continue to say they think he's guilty. You'd expect that from the family's side and their lawyers, but GZ may encounter people that use that the state still thinks he's guilty as an excuse to harass him. Hate to say it but GZ's life is pretty much screwed over almost as bad as that lady that was acquitted a year ago that killed her baby. His best bet would be to move the hell out of the USA ASAP a long with a name change. Or make millions off of book deals + interviews. pretty much guaranteed O'Mare will write a book. has to get his money somehow. I forget exactly what the rule is, but there's some kind of ethical prohibition on writing books about cases. Are lawyers only prohibited from getting book rights as part of their fees or is there a broader prohibition? there are son of sam laws for defendants who are convicted. never heard of anything for attorneys or acquitted defendants. i imagine that would be unconstitutional (first amendment).
No, it's definitely not. It's actually written into the model rules of professional conduct.
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This case is a good example of how EVIL the mainstream media is. No one should trust the mainstream media again after this case, especially CNN and MSNBC.
The mainstream media do not report on things with an unbiased view or without an agenda.
Everyone who followed this case right from the beginning up until now, this should be an eye opener as to what the mainstream media really is. Look how much division they have created between races of people in this country over this case.
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On July 14 2013 12:44 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 12:42 dAPhREAk wrote:On July 14 2013 12:41 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2013 12:39 dAPhREAk wrote:On July 14 2013 12:38 wei2coolman wrote:On July 14 2013 12:37 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On July 14 2013 12:27 Ansinjunger wrote:On July 14 2013 12:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2013 12:16 dAPhREAk wrote:On July 14 2013 12:07 Ansinjunger wrote:
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That's more or less what I was thinking. I appreciate xDaunt for not being on a high horse when posting in this thread.
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His updating of the thread was indeed fantastic, and you could argue that the moderator note set him apart as kind of a moderator for this thread. However, I don't particularly feel the need to be guilt-tripped for initially thinking GZ was guilty back when the other thread was posted. I'd rather thank the informative people in this thread for helping me learn a lot, so this type of remark stings. i have been holding my disgust in check for some of the people in this and the original thread for a long time trying to be objective. now that the case is over, i am not holding back. the ignorance of people continues to amaze me. and before you get on your high horse, pre-trial, i thought zimmerman would be convicted of manslaughter. only after this shitty trial did i change my mind. Yeah, I agree with this. I was fairly skeptical of the charges from the getgo, but I kept an open mind to see what the state was going to present at trial. However, once I saw how grossly inadequate their evidence was, I turned pretty quickly and made up my mind. John Good's testimony sealed the deal. I was absolutely appalled that the State would push this case knowing that John Good was a witness who was going to say the things that he said. Also, I have previously advocated some restraint in terms of dumping on the DA, but after seeing the entirety of the trial, closing arguments, and that post trial press conference, I really hope that someone takes a hard look what went on in this case. I'm glad O'Mara is gonna follow up with it. That's the second best news of the night after the acquittal. It must suck for GZ to hear the state continue to say they think he's guilty. You'd expect that from the family's side and their lawyers, but GZ may encounter people that use that the state still thinks he's guilty as an excuse to harass him. Hate to say it but GZ's life is pretty much screwed over almost as bad as that lady that was acquitted a year ago that killed her baby. His best bet would be to move the hell out of the USA ASAP a long with a name change. Or make millions off of book deals + interviews. pretty much guaranteed O'Mare will write a book. has to get his money somehow. I forget exactly what the rule is, but there's some kind of ethical prohibition on writing books about cases. Are lawyers only prohibited from getting book rights as part of their fees or is there a broader prohibition? there are son of sam laws for defendants who are convicted. never heard of anything for attorneys or acquitted defendants. i imagine that would be unconstitutional (first amendment). No, it's definitely not. It's actually written into the model rules of professional conduct.
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This is what I'm talking about with Al Sharpton, would MLK encourage voter registration and civil suits or would he attack the police department, and court system?
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On July 14 2013 12:46 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 12:44 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2013 12:42 dAPhREAk wrote:On July 14 2013 12:41 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2013 12:39 dAPhREAk wrote:On July 14 2013 12:38 wei2coolman wrote:On July 14 2013 12:37 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On July 14 2013 12:27 Ansinjunger wrote:On July 14 2013 12:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2013 12:16 dAPhREAk wrote:
[quote]
i have been holding my disgust in check for some of the people in this and the original thread for a long time trying to be objective. now that the case is over, i am not holding back. the ignorance of people continues to amaze me.
and before you get on your high horse, pre-trial, i thought zimmerman would be convicted of manslaughter. only after this shitty trial did i change my mind. Yeah, I agree with this. I was fairly skeptical of the charges from the getgo, but I kept an open mind to see what the state was going to present at trial. However, once I saw how grossly inadequate their evidence was, I turned pretty quickly and made up my mind. John Good's testimony sealed the deal. I was absolutely appalled that the State would push this case knowing that John Good was a witness who was going to say the things that he said. Also, I have previously advocated some restraint in terms of dumping on the DA, but after seeing the entirety of the trial, closing arguments, and that post trial press conference, I really hope that someone takes a hard look what went on in this case. I'm glad O'Mara is gonna follow up with it. That's the second best news of the night after the acquittal. It must suck for GZ to hear the state continue to say they think he's guilty. You'd expect that from the family's side and their lawyers, but GZ may encounter people that use that the state still thinks he's guilty as an excuse to harass him. Hate to say it but GZ's life is pretty much screwed over almost as bad as that lady that was acquitted a year ago that killed her baby. His best bet would be to move the hell out of the USA ASAP a long with a name change. Or make millions off of book deals + interviews. pretty much guaranteed O'Mare will write a book. has to get his money somehow. I forget exactly what the rule is, but there's some kind of ethical prohibition on writing books about cases. Are lawyers only prohibited from getting book rights as part of their fees or is there a broader prohibition? there are son of sam laws for defendants who are convicted. never heard of anything for attorneys or acquitted defendants. i imagine that would be unconstitutional (first amendment). No, it's definitely not. It's actually written into the model rules of professional conduct. ?
Here it is:
"1.8(d) Prior to the conclusion of representation of a client, a lawyer shall not make or negotiate an agreement giving the lawyer literary or media rights to a portrayal or account based in substantial part on information relating to the representation." (this is from Colorado, but I know it's in the model rules, too).
I don't really know what the limitations are. I haven't looked at it in detail.
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On July 14 2013 12:45 Esk23 wrote:
This case is a good example of how EVIL the mainstream media is. No one should trust the mainstream media again after this case, especially CNN and MSNBC.
The mainstream media do not report on things with an unbiased view or without an agenda.
Everyone who followed this case right from the beginning up until now, this should be an eye opener as to what the mainstream media really is. Look how much division they have created between races of people in this country over this case.
Truth. Though it's not just the mainstream media, that's the important thing. It's can be very difficult to separate the real news from the bullshit from any source especially for people who are just coming to the realization that the mainstream media sucks.
Aside from this case and a few other things I haven't followed the news since last November and I swear I haven't ever been happier in my entire adult life, I don't even know if it's intentional, but the mainstream media is amazing at making people angry with their reporting.
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On July 14 2013 12:41 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 12:41 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 14 2013 12:36 kmillz wrote:On July 14 2013 12:34 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 14 2013 12:30 kmillz wrote:On July 14 2013 12:26 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 14 2013 12:20 Tewks44 wrote:On July 14 2013 12:14 ZapRoffo wrote:
Anyone want to convince me (someone who didn't really follow the details of the case) that there was no racial profiling and attempt to vigilante by Zimmerman, other than it just being a matter of belief with no evidence either way--at which point I will adamantly believe there was?
I need filled in and my queries keep being ignored. Well, the problem is these questions aren't really relevant to the case. My opinion, I think it's likely that Zimmerman profiled Martin, and I think he definitely was acting as kind of a "wanna-be-cop" to use the prosecution's term. However the relevant question is whether or not Zimmerman felt as if he was in danger of severe bodily harm because this would justify the use of self defense. I'm not just interested in the trial, I'm interested in the full moral dimensions, and this thread is titled Shooting of Trayvon Martin, not Trial for the Shooting of Trayvon Martin so I think it's still within the scope. I asked if anyone wanted to convince me, not force you to convince me, I don't get the hostility. On July 14 2013 12:26 kmillz wrote:On July 14 2013 12:22 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 14 2013 12:17 kmillz wrote:On July 14 2013 12:14 ZapRoffo wrote:
Anyone want to convince me (someone who didn't really follow the details of the case) that there was no racial profiling and attempt to vigilante by Zimmerman, other than it just being a matter of belief with no evidence either way--at which point I will adamantly believe there was?
I need filled in and my queries keep being ignored. Because there is no evidence that he was racial profiling. Reporting someone and them being black does not make it racial profiling. If that were the case you could call every instance of reporting a potential criminal of a different race as "racial profiling". Like I said, no concrete evidence of it being so doesn't mean anything to me, I'm not a jury or a research task force. I can act on intuition, and I just want to see if there are any clear facts flying right in the face of my intuition that can be clearly delineated. Which there doesn't seem to be. I'm just asking for personal reasons. Can you convince me that there are no unicorns? We have no proof of unicorns but I'm still skeptical. No I don't care to. Does your intuition tell you there are probably unicorns, I don't really care? I just thought people might care to have an opportunity to enlighten me. My intuition is telling me that you are overtly judgmental. Did you even read the other people's post who made some valid reasons for why it makes no sense for him to have been racially profiling? I saw, I take it into account but it doesn't really convince me, which is fine. I'm out now, no need to argue directed at me anymore. You're right..George probably did all of those kind acts to African Americans to get off the "racist radar". I don't really know more to say. I don't expect any "evidence" of him not being racist will convince you. I'm not saying he's a raging racist, but people can do nice things for black people and also still have inherent attitudes about them that are negative and fearful. I believe this happens way more often than outright "I hate black people" racism. what makes you believe that zimmerman is a racist? i am curious.
Oh I edited my previous to say part of what I'm thinking, and also that I just don't think it's natural behavior to follow someone just for walking in your neighborhood, and I just notice in my life that neighborhood watch types, especially ones that would be doing it in that a FL gated community (the whole philosophy of those places plays in--keep the "undesirables" out), have a bent toward vigilante-ism, which plays in with his whole repeated police calls and involvements in the past, and going against recommendation to follow him. And often vigilante stuff has an embedded racist tinge to it (sometimes outright, sometimes not). All that adds to a general feeling in my gut telling me what happened was really wrong, even if every single piece has its own, well not necessarily..., aspect.
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On July 14 2013 12:48 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 12:46 dAPhREAk wrote:On July 14 2013 12:44 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2013 12:42 dAPhREAk wrote:On July 14 2013 12:41 xDaunt wrote:On July 14 2013 12:39 dAPhREAk wrote:On July 14 2013 12:38 wei2coolman wrote:On July 14 2013 12:37 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On July 14 2013 12:27 Ansinjunger wrote:On July 14 2013 12:23 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
Yeah, I agree with this.
I was fairly skeptical of the charges from the getgo, but I kept an open mind to see what the state was going to present at trial. However, once I saw how grossly inadequate their evidence was, I turned pretty quickly and made up my mind. John Good's testimony sealed the deal. I was absolutely appalled that the State would push this case knowing that John Good was a witness who was going to say the things that he said.
Also, I have previously advocated some restraint in terms of dumping on the DA, but after seeing the entirety of the trial, closing arguments, and that post trial press conference, I really hope that someone takes a hard look what went on in this case. I'm glad O'Mara is gonna follow up with it. That's the second best news of the night after the acquittal. It must suck for GZ to hear the state continue to say they think he's guilty. You'd expect that from the family's side and their lawyers, but GZ may encounter people that use that the state still thinks he's guilty as an excuse to harass him. Hate to say it but GZ's life is pretty much screwed over almost as bad as that lady that was acquitted a year ago that killed her baby. His best bet would be to move the hell out of the USA ASAP a long with a name change. Or make millions off of book deals + interviews. pretty much guaranteed O'Mare will write a book. has to get his money somehow. I forget exactly what the rule is, but there's some kind of ethical prohibition on writing books about cases. Are lawyers only prohibited from getting book rights as part of their fees or is there a broader prohibition? there are son of sam laws for defendants who are convicted. never heard of anything for attorneys or acquitted defendants. i imagine that would be unconstitutional (first amendment). No, it's definitely not. It's actually written into the model rules of professional conduct. ? Here it is: "1.8(d) Prior to the conclusion of representation of a client, a lawyer shall not make or negotiate an agreement giving the lawyer literary or media rights to a portrayal or account based in substantial part on information relating to the representation." (this is from Colorado, but I know it's in the model rules, too). I don't really know what the limitations are. I haven't looked at it in detail.
unless there is an appeal and he has been retained for the appeal, he has concluded his representation. so, even if that applied, i dont know what you are getting at.
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On July 14 2013 12:49 ZapRoffo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 12:41 dAPhREAk wrote:On July 14 2013 12:41 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 14 2013 12:36 kmillz wrote:On July 14 2013 12:34 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 14 2013 12:30 kmillz wrote:On July 14 2013 12:26 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 14 2013 12:20 Tewks44 wrote:On July 14 2013 12:14 ZapRoffo wrote:
Anyone want to convince me (someone who didn't really follow the details of the case) that there was no racial profiling and attempt to vigilante by Zimmerman, other than it just being a matter of belief with no evidence either way--at which point I will adamantly believe there was?
I need filled in and my queries keep being ignored. Well, the problem is these questions aren't really relevant to the case. My opinion, I think it's likely that Zimmerman profiled Martin, and I think he definitely was acting as kind of a "wanna-be-cop" to use the prosecution's term. However the relevant question is whether or not Zimmerman felt as if he was in danger of severe bodily harm because this would justify the use of self defense. I'm not just interested in the trial, I'm interested in the full moral dimensions, and this thread is titled Shooting of Trayvon Martin, not Trial for the Shooting of Trayvon Martin so I think it's still within the scope. I asked if anyone wanted to convince me, not force you to convince me, I don't get the hostility. On July 14 2013 12:26 kmillz wrote:On July 14 2013 12:22 ZapRoffo wrote:On July 14 2013 12:17 kmillz wrote:
[quote]
Because there is no evidence that he was racial profiling. Reporting someone and them being black does not make it racial profiling. If that were the case you could call every instance of reporting a potential criminal of a different race as "racial profiling". Like I said, no concrete evidence of it being so doesn't mean anything to me, I'm not a jury or a research task force. I can act on intuition, and I just want to see if there are any clear facts flying right in the face of my intuition that can be clearly delineated. Which there doesn't seem to be. I'm just asking for personal reasons. Can you convince me that there are no unicorns? We have no proof of unicorns but I'm still skeptical. No I don't care to. Does your intuition tell you there are probably unicorns, I don't really care? I just thought people might care to have an opportunity to enlighten me. My intuition is telling me that you are overtly judgmental. Did you even read the other people's post who made some valid reasons for why it makes no sense for him to have been racially profiling? I saw, I take it into account but it doesn't really convince me, which is fine. I'm out now, no need to argue directed at me anymore. You're right..George probably did all of those kind acts to African Americans to get off the "racist radar". I don't really know more to say. I don't expect any "evidence" of him not being racist will convince you. I'm not saying he's a raging racist, but people can do nice things for black people and also still have inherent attitudes about them that are negative and fearful. I believe this happens way more often than outright "I hate black people" racism. what makes you believe that zimmerman is a racist? i am curious. Oh I edited my previous to say part of what I'm thinking, and also that I just don't think it's natural behavior to follow someone just for walking in your neighborhood, and I just notice in my life that neighborhood watch types, especially ones that would be doing it in that a FL gated community (the whole philosophy of those places plays in--keep the "undesirables" out), have a bent toward vigilante-ism, which plays in with his whole repeated police calls and involvements in the past, and going against recommendation to follow him.
so, he is racist because he allegedly followed him over the recommendation of the police dispatcher?
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On July 14 2013 12:45 Esk23 wrote:
This case is a good example of how EVIL the mainstream media is. No one should trust the mainstream media again after this case, especially CNN and MSNBC.
The mainstream media do not report on things with an unbiased view or without an agenda.
Everyone who followed this case right from the beginning up until now, this should be an eye opener as to what the mainstream media really is. Look how much division they have created between races of people in this country over this case.
It's been this way for years, the mainstream media has very clear social agendas and painting black people as helpless victims of the savagery and oppression of whites is all part of the plan. Look no further than their insistence on the use of "white hispanic" during this whole mess as a means to try and drag white people into a racially charged trial that had nothing to do with any white people.
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EPT
