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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
Btw this is the pistol the Dayton shooter used
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/9LMoVxw.jpg)
Purchased legally though a licensed gun dealer
Except for the lower receiver and all the other modifications bought though non-licensed gun dealers as they do not count as firearms
This pistol could fire .223 and was able to turn out above 41 rounds in about 30 seconds able to kill 9 injure 27.
Seems rather absurd to defend this as sensible gun control if people can build what laymen would think count as machine guns.
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On August 10 2019 01:54 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2019 22:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Directly related to mass shootings: The worry that someone decked out like Rambo in public is going to commit one... Former firefighter stops man armed with 100 rounds of ammunition at south Springfield Walmart
SPRINGFIELD, Mo. The Springfield Police Department says it responded to a call of an active shooter at the Walmart Neighborhood Market at Republic Rd., near Golden Ave., Thursday evening.
The Springfield Police Department arrived on scene within three minutes of the call. Police stated that a young white male, appearing to be in his twenties, pulled up to the Walmart, where he donned body armor and military fatigues. Police say the man had tactical weapons.
Police then say the man walked into the Walmart: Neighborhood Market where he grabbed a cart and began pushing it around the store. Police say the man was recording himself walking through the store via a cell phone.
The store manager at the Neighborhood Market pulled a fire alarm, urging people to escape the store.
Police say the man then made his way out an emergency exit where a former firefighter held the man at gunpoint. At that moment Springfield Police arrived on scene and detained the man.
The Springfield Police Department could not confirm the nature of statements said by the man to those inside of the Walmart, but they do confirm that the man had loaded weapons, and over one hundred rounds of ammunition.
Police also observed many shoppers hiding outside the Walmart and at nearby businesses.
Lieutenant Mike Lucas said it was clear the man's intent was to cause chaos, saying in part, "His intent was not to cause peace or comfort...He's lucky he's alive still, to be honest."
Police identified the man's vehicle and are investigating the possibility of more firearms inside the vehicle. https://www.ky3.com/content/news/Heavy-police-presence-at-Walmart-Neighborhood-Market-in-south-Springfield-528602951.html?fbclid=IwAR2jOSR7h85Vt4wl6eihhrVlh1IbkaPuWhTOdG-U4A-f2r3NOwsrYR_yN5o This guy wasn't actually shooting anyone, but he certainly "fit the profile" of a potential mass shooter: young, white man carrying a gun and ammunition. I wonder how outraged the pro-gun community would become if everyone started calling the police on people who were open carrying and subjectively looking like a perceived threat. Probably about as outraged as the black community, when they're driving or walking or grilling or breathing "suspiciously". Fits the profile of a good guy with a gun, too. There will still be millions of guns in the country if they’re banned, but then you’d have someone intent on criminal mayhem carrying, and the firefighter disarmed. I applaud the good guy with a gun. I hope America continues to protect his right to purchase and bear his firearm in public for his whole life, and that he passes that noble tradition down to children.
Who is the "good guy" with a gun here?
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On August 10 2019 03:28 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2019 01:54 Danglars wrote:On August 09 2019 22:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Directly related to mass shootings: The worry that someone decked out like Rambo in public is going to commit one... Former firefighter stops man armed with 100 rounds of ammunition at south Springfield Walmart
SPRINGFIELD, Mo. The Springfield Police Department says it responded to a call of an active shooter at the Walmart Neighborhood Market at Republic Rd., near Golden Ave., Thursday evening.
The Springfield Police Department arrived on scene within three minutes of the call. Police stated that a young white male, appearing to be in his twenties, pulled up to the Walmart, where he donned body armor and military fatigues. Police say the man had tactical weapons.
Police then say the man walked into the Walmart: Neighborhood Market where he grabbed a cart and began pushing it around the store. Police say the man was recording himself walking through the store via a cell phone.
The store manager at the Neighborhood Market pulled a fire alarm, urging people to escape the store.
Police say the man then made his way out an emergency exit where a former firefighter held the man at gunpoint. At that moment Springfield Police arrived on scene and detained the man.
The Springfield Police Department could not confirm the nature of statements said by the man to those inside of the Walmart, but they do confirm that the man had loaded weapons, and over one hundred rounds of ammunition.
Police also observed many shoppers hiding outside the Walmart and at nearby businesses.
Lieutenant Mike Lucas said it was clear the man's intent was to cause chaos, saying in part, "His intent was not to cause peace or comfort...He's lucky he's alive still, to be honest."
Police identified the man's vehicle and are investigating the possibility of more firearms inside the vehicle. https://www.ky3.com/content/news/Heavy-police-presence-at-Walmart-Neighborhood-Market-in-south-Springfield-528602951.html?fbclid=IwAR2jOSR7h85Vt4wl6eihhrVlh1IbkaPuWhTOdG-U4A-f2r3NOwsrYR_yN5o This guy wasn't actually shooting anyone, but he certainly "fit the profile" of a potential mass shooter: young, white man carrying a gun and ammunition. I wonder how outraged the pro-gun community would become if everyone started calling the police on people who were open carrying and subjectively looking like a perceived threat. Probably about as outraged as the black community, when they're driving or walking or grilling or breathing "suspiciously". Fits the profile of a good guy with a gun, too. There will still be millions of guns in the country if they’re banned, but then you’d have someone intent on criminal mayhem carrying, and the firefighter disarmed. I applaud the good guy with a gun. I hope America continues to protect his right to purchase and bear his firearm in public for his whole life, and that he passes that noble tradition down to children. And I hope the system changes to where the good guy with a handgun doesn't have his walmart trip interrupted by a kid with a rifle. You can glorify the noble tradition all you want - that glory still plays in to why people engage this show of power. Make the 'noble' thing noble. Let it earn its title back. This story is stark evidence that carrying a firearm is NOT noble in America at the moment.
Firefighter does insane judo chop to disarm bad guy with a gun? You can imagine a better world all you want, but all I see changed is a disarmed firefighter watching helplessly and you having the exact same take with a bigger body count.
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On August 10 2019 03:48 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2019 03:28 Fleetfeet wrote:On August 10 2019 01:54 Danglars wrote:On August 09 2019 22:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Directly related to mass shootings: The worry that someone decked out like Rambo in public is going to commit one... Former firefighter stops man armed with 100 rounds of ammunition at south Springfield Walmart
SPRINGFIELD, Mo. The Springfield Police Department says it responded to a call of an active shooter at the Walmart Neighborhood Market at Republic Rd., near Golden Ave., Thursday evening.
The Springfield Police Department arrived on scene within three minutes of the call. Police stated that a young white male, appearing to be in his twenties, pulled up to the Walmart, where he donned body armor and military fatigues. Police say the man had tactical weapons.
Police then say the man walked into the Walmart: Neighborhood Market where he grabbed a cart and began pushing it around the store. Police say the man was recording himself walking through the store via a cell phone.
The store manager at the Neighborhood Market pulled a fire alarm, urging people to escape the store.
Police say the man then made his way out an emergency exit where a former firefighter held the man at gunpoint. At that moment Springfield Police arrived on scene and detained the man.
The Springfield Police Department could not confirm the nature of statements said by the man to those inside of the Walmart, but they do confirm that the man had loaded weapons, and over one hundred rounds of ammunition.
Police also observed many shoppers hiding outside the Walmart and at nearby businesses.
Lieutenant Mike Lucas said it was clear the man's intent was to cause chaos, saying in part, "His intent was not to cause peace or comfort...He's lucky he's alive still, to be honest."
Police identified the man's vehicle and are investigating the possibility of more firearms inside the vehicle. https://www.ky3.com/content/news/Heavy-police-presence-at-Walmart-Neighborhood-Market-in-south-Springfield-528602951.html?fbclid=IwAR2jOSR7h85Vt4wl6eihhrVlh1IbkaPuWhTOdG-U4A-f2r3NOwsrYR_yN5o This guy wasn't actually shooting anyone, but he certainly "fit the profile" of a potential mass shooter: young, white man carrying a gun and ammunition. I wonder how outraged the pro-gun community would become if everyone started calling the police on people who were open carrying and subjectively looking like a perceived threat. Probably about as outraged as the black community, when they're driving or walking or grilling or breathing "suspiciously". Fits the profile of a good guy with a gun, too. There will still be millions of guns in the country if they’re banned, but then you’d have someone intent on criminal mayhem carrying, and the firefighter disarmed. I applaud the good guy with a gun. I hope America continues to protect his right to purchase and bear his firearm in public for his whole life, and that he passes that noble tradition down to children. And I hope the system changes to where the good guy with a handgun doesn't have his walmart trip interrupted by a kid with a rifle. You can glorify the noble tradition all you want - that glory still plays in to why people engage this show of power. Make the 'noble' thing noble. Let it earn its title back. This story is stark evidence that carrying a firearm is NOT noble in America at the moment. Firefighter does insane judo chop to disarm bad guy with a gun? You can imagine a better world all you want, but all I see changed is a disarmed firefighter watching helplessly and you having the exact same take with a bigger body count.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the store manager and firefighter harassing/threatening a law abiding gun owner?
As a good guy with a gun, it would have been reasonable for him to feel threatened (by strangers, that aren't police, yelling and pointing guns at him) and defend himself no?
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On August 10 2019 01:54 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2019 22:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Directly related to mass shootings: The worry that someone decked out like Rambo in public is going to commit one... Former firefighter stops man armed with 100 rounds of ammunition at south Springfield Walmart
SPRINGFIELD, Mo. The Springfield Police Department says it responded to a call of an active shooter at the Walmart Neighborhood Market at Republic Rd., near Golden Ave., Thursday evening.
The Springfield Police Department arrived on scene within three minutes of the call. Police stated that a young white male, appearing to be in his twenties, pulled up to the Walmart, where he donned body armor and military fatigues. Police say the man had tactical weapons.
Police then say the man walked into the Walmart: Neighborhood Market where he grabbed a cart and began pushing it around the store. Police say the man was recording himself walking through the store via a cell phone.
The store manager at the Neighborhood Market pulled a fire alarm, urging people to escape the store.
Police say the man then made his way out an emergency exit where a former firefighter held the man at gunpoint. At that moment Springfield Police arrived on scene and detained the man.
The Springfield Police Department could not confirm the nature of statements said by the man to those inside of the Walmart, but they do confirm that the man had loaded weapons, and over one hundred rounds of ammunition.
Police also observed many shoppers hiding outside the Walmart and at nearby businesses.
Lieutenant Mike Lucas said it was clear the man's intent was to cause chaos, saying in part, "His intent was not to cause peace or comfort...He's lucky he's alive still, to be honest."
Police identified the man's vehicle and are investigating the possibility of more firearms inside the vehicle. https://www.ky3.com/content/news/Heavy-police-presence-at-Walmart-Neighborhood-Market-in-south-Springfield-528602951.html?fbclid=IwAR2jOSR7h85Vt4wl6eihhrVlh1IbkaPuWhTOdG-U4A-f2r3NOwsrYR_yN5o This guy wasn't actually shooting anyone, but he certainly "fit the profile" of a potential mass shooter: young, white man carrying a gun and ammunition. I wonder how outraged the pro-gun community would become if everyone started calling the police on people who were open carrying and subjectively looking like a perceived threat. Probably about as outraged as the black community, when they're driving or walking or grilling or breathing "suspiciously". Fits the profile of a good guy with a gun, too. There will still be millions of guns in the country if they’re banned, but then you’d have someone intent on criminal mayhem carrying, and the firefighter disarmed. I applaud the good guy with a gun. I hope America continues to protect his right to purchase and bear his firearm in public for his whole life, and that he passes that noble tradition down to children.
He's not a "good guy with a gun". That trope is supposed to describe a hypothetical vigilante who specifically stops a "bad guy with a gun" by interrupting a mass shooting before the police can intervene. There's no violence going on here, not to mention that we know that the "good guy with a gun" meme is basically a myth, as more people shooting more guns adds to the chaos and confusion and body count, rather than "nobly" protecting the masses.
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On August 10 2019 04:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2019 01:54 Danglars wrote:On August 09 2019 22:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Directly related to mass shootings: The worry that someone decked out like Rambo in public is going to commit one... Former firefighter stops man armed with 100 rounds of ammunition at south Springfield Walmart
SPRINGFIELD, Mo. The Springfield Police Department says it responded to a call of an active shooter at the Walmart Neighborhood Market at Republic Rd., near Golden Ave., Thursday evening.
The Springfield Police Department arrived on scene within three minutes of the call. Police stated that a young white male, appearing to be in his twenties, pulled up to the Walmart, where he donned body armor and military fatigues. Police say the man had tactical weapons.
Police then say the man walked into the Walmart: Neighborhood Market where he grabbed a cart and began pushing it around the store. Police say the man was recording himself walking through the store via a cell phone.
The store manager at the Neighborhood Market pulled a fire alarm, urging people to escape the store.
Police say the man then made his way out an emergency exit where a former firefighter held the man at gunpoint. At that moment Springfield Police arrived on scene and detained the man.
The Springfield Police Department could not confirm the nature of statements said by the man to those inside of the Walmart, but they do confirm that the man had loaded weapons, and over one hundred rounds of ammunition.
Police also observed many shoppers hiding outside the Walmart and at nearby businesses.
Lieutenant Mike Lucas said it was clear the man's intent was to cause chaos, saying in part, "His intent was not to cause peace or comfort...He's lucky he's alive still, to be honest."
Police identified the man's vehicle and are investigating the possibility of more firearms inside the vehicle. https://www.ky3.com/content/news/Heavy-police-presence-at-Walmart-Neighborhood-Market-in-south-Springfield-528602951.html?fbclid=IwAR2jOSR7h85Vt4wl6eihhrVlh1IbkaPuWhTOdG-U4A-f2r3NOwsrYR_yN5o This guy wasn't actually shooting anyone, but he certainly "fit the profile" of a potential mass shooter: young, white man carrying a gun and ammunition. I wonder how outraged the pro-gun community would become if everyone started calling the police on people who were open carrying and subjectively looking like a perceived threat. Probably about as outraged as the black community, when they're driving or walking or grilling or breathing "suspiciously". Fits the profile of a good guy with a gun, too. There will still be millions of guns in the country if they’re banned, but then you’d have someone intent on criminal mayhem carrying, and the firefighter disarmed. I applaud the good guy with a gun. I hope America continues to protect his right to purchase and bear his firearm in public for his whole life, and that he passes that noble tradition down to children. He's not a "good guy with a gun". That trope is supposed to describe a hypothetical vigilante who specifically stops a "bad guy with a gun" by interrupting a mass shooting before the police can intervene. There's no violence going on here, not to mention that we know that the "good guy with a gun" meme is basically a myth, as more people shooting more guns adds to the chaos and confusion and body count, rather than "nobly" protecting the masses.
The nature of his arrest for making a terrorist threat means this is an example, pending possible future evidence that he wasn’t carrying or brandishing it in a threatening way after all. He was successfully detained before the police could intervene. In this case, holding gun in a threatening manner inconsistent with state law on open carry provisions.
I would’ve thought the gun control crowd would be overall supportive of these kind of gun laws, and concerned citizens helping the police in their enforcement, but color me surprised.
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On August 10 2019 04:26 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2019 04:23 Danglars wrote:On August 10 2019 04:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 10 2019 01:54 Danglars wrote:On August 09 2019 22:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Directly related to mass shootings: The worry that someone decked out like Rambo in public is going to commit one... Former firefighter stops man armed with 100 rounds of ammunition at south Springfield Walmart
SPRINGFIELD, Mo. The Springfield Police Department says it responded to a call of an active shooter at the Walmart Neighborhood Market at Republic Rd., near Golden Ave., Thursday evening.
The Springfield Police Department arrived on scene within three minutes of the call. Police stated that a young white male, appearing to be in his twenties, pulled up to the Walmart, where he donned body armor and military fatigues. Police say the man had tactical weapons.
Police then say the man walked into the Walmart: Neighborhood Market where he grabbed a cart and began pushing it around the store. Police say the man was recording himself walking through the store via a cell phone.
The store manager at the Neighborhood Market pulled a fire alarm, urging people to escape the store.
Police say the man then made his way out an emergency exit where a former firefighter held the man at gunpoint. At that moment Springfield Police arrived on scene and detained the man.
The Springfield Police Department could not confirm the nature of statements said by the man to those inside of the Walmart, but they do confirm that the man had loaded weapons, and over one hundred rounds of ammunition.
Police also observed many shoppers hiding outside the Walmart and at nearby businesses.
Lieutenant Mike Lucas said it was clear the man's intent was to cause chaos, saying in part, "His intent was not to cause peace or comfort...He's lucky he's alive still, to be honest."
Police identified the man's vehicle and are investigating the possibility of more firearms inside the vehicle. https://www.ky3.com/content/news/Heavy-police-presence-at-Walmart-Neighborhood-Market-in-south-Springfield-528602951.html?fbclid=IwAR2jOSR7h85Vt4wl6eihhrVlh1IbkaPuWhTOdG-U4A-f2r3NOwsrYR_yN5o This guy wasn't actually shooting anyone, but he certainly "fit the profile" of a potential mass shooter: young, white man carrying a gun and ammunition. I wonder how outraged the pro-gun community would become if everyone started calling the police on people who were open carrying and subjectively looking like a perceived threat. Probably about as outraged as the black community, when they're driving or walking or grilling or breathing "suspiciously". Fits the profile of a good guy with a gun, too. There will still be millions of guns in the country if they’re banned, but then you’d have someone intent on criminal mayhem carrying, and the firefighter disarmed. I applaud the good guy with a gun. I hope America continues to protect his right to purchase and bear his firearm in public for his whole life, and that he passes that noble tradition down to children. He's not a "good guy with a gun". That trope is supposed to describe a hypothetical vigilante who specifically stops a "bad guy with a gun" by interrupting a mass shooting before the police can intervene. There's no violence going on here, not to mention that we know that the "good guy with a gun" meme is basically a myth, as more people shooting more guns adds to the chaos and confusion and body count, rather than "nobly" protecting the masses. The nature of his arrest for making a terrorist threat means this is an example, pending possible future evidence that he wasn’t carrying or brandishing it in a threatening way after all. He was successfully detained before the police could intervene. In this case, holding gun in a threatening manner inconsistent with state law on open carry provisions. I would’ve thought the gun control crowd would be overall supportive of these kind of gun laws, and concerned citizens helping the police in their enforcement, but color me surprised. This is why people call you disingenuous. There is no way you believe this sentence.
I find it perfectly reasonable and consistent.
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On August 10 2019 04:23 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2019 04:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 10 2019 01:54 Danglars wrote:On August 09 2019 22:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Directly related to mass shootings: The worry that someone decked out like Rambo in public is going to commit one... Former firefighter stops man armed with 100 rounds of ammunition at south Springfield Walmart
SPRINGFIELD, Mo. The Springfield Police Department says it responded to a call of an active shooter at the Walmart Neighborhood Market at Republic Rd., near Golden Ave., Thursday evening.
The Springfield Police Department arrived on scene within three minutes of the call. Police stated that a young white male, appearing to be in his twenties, pulled up to the Walmart, where he donned body armor and military fatigues. Police say the man had tactical weapons.
Police then say the man walked into the Walmart: Neighborhood Market where he grabbed a cart and began pushing it around the store. Police say the man was recording himself walking through the store via a cell phone.
The store manager at the Neighborhood Market pulled a fire alarm, urging people to escape the store.
Police say the man then made his way out an emergency exit where a former firefighter held the man at gunpoint. At that moment Springfield Police arrived on scene and detained the man.
The Springfield Police Department could not confirm the nature of statements said by the man to those inside of the Walmart, but they do confirm that the man had loaded weapons, and over one hundred rounds of ammunition.
Police also observed many shoppers hiding outside the Walmart and at nearby businesses.
Lieutenant Mike Lucas said it was clear the man's intent was to cause chaos, saying in part, "His intent was not to cause peace or comfort...He's lucky he's alive still, to be honest."
Police identified the man's vehicle and are investigating the possibility of more firearms inside the vehicle. https://www.ky3.com/content/news/Heavy-police-presence-at-Walmart-Neighborhood-Market-in-south-Springfield-528602951.html?fbclid=IwAR2jOSR7h85Vt4wl6eihhrVlh1IbkaPuWhTOdG-U4A-f2r3NOwsrYR_yN5o This guy wasn't actually shooting anyone, but he certainly "fit the profile" of a potential mass shooter: young, white man carrying a gun and ammunition. I wonder how outraged the pro-gun community would become if everyone started calling the police on people who were open carrying and subjectively looking like a perceived threat. Probably about as outraged as the black community, when they're driving or walking or grilling or breathing "suspiciously". Fits the profile of a good guy with a gun, too. There will still be millions of guns in the country if they’re banned, but then you’d have someone intent on criminal mayhem carrying, and the firefighter disarmed. I applaud the good guy with a gun. I hope America continues to protect his right to purchase and bear his firearm in public for his whole life, and that he passes that noble tradition down to children. He's not a "good guy with a gun". That trope is supposed to describe a hypothetical vigilante who specifically stops a "bad guy with a gun" by interrupting a mass shooting before the police can intervene. There's no violence going on here, not to mention that we know that the "good guy with a gun" meme is basically a myth, as more people shooting more guns adds to the chaos and confusion and body count, rather than "nobly" protecting the masses. The nature of his arrest for making a terrorist threat means this is an example, pending possible future evidence that he wasn’t carrying or brandishing it in a threatening way after all. He was successfully detained before the police could intervene. In this case, holding gun in a threatening manner inconsistent with state law on open carry provisions. I would’ve thought the gun control crowd would be overall supportive of these kind of gun laws, and concerned citizens helping the police in their enforcement, but color me surprised.
So are you saying you don't know who the good guy with a gun is now??
We know that the manager and firefighter were both seen threatening what as far as we know was a law abiding gun owner and the police chose to arrest the guy who (correct me if I'm wrong) would have been justified to defend himself from the threats of people pointing guns at him?
EDIT: If danglars is stumped by this, any 2A folks are welcome to opine?
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On August 10 2019 04:38 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2019 04:26 JimmiC wrote:On August 10 2019 04:23 Danglars wrote:On August 10 2019 04:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 10 2019 01:54 Danglars wrote:On August 09 2019 22:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Directly related to mass shootings: The worry that someone decked out like Rambo in public is going to commit one... Former firefighter stops man armed with 100 rounds of ammunition at south Springfield Walmart
SPRINGFIELD, Mo. The Springfield Police Department says it responded to a call of an active shooter at the Walmart Neighborhood Market at Republic Rd., near Golden Ave., Thursday evening.
The Springfield Police Department arrived on scene within three minutes of the call. Police stated that a young white male, appearing to be in his twenties, pulled up to the Walmart, where he donned body armor and military fatigues. Police say the man had tactical weapons.
Police then say the man walked into the Walmart: Neighborhood Market where he grabbed a cart and began pushing it around the store. Police say the man was recording himself walking through the store via a cell phone.
The store manager at the Neighborhood Market pulled a fire alarm, urging people to escape the store.
Police say the man then made his way out an emergency exit where a former firefighter held the man at gunpoint. At that moment Springfield Police arrived on scene and detained the man.
The Springfield Police Department could not confirm the nature of statements said by the man to those inside of the Walmart, but they do confirm that the man had loaded weapons, and over one hundred rounds of ammunition.
Police also observed many shoppers hiding outside the Walmart and at nearby businesses.
Lieutenant Mike Lucas said it was clear the man's intent was to cause chaos, saying in part, "His intent was not to cause peace or comfort...He's lucky he's alive still, to be honest."
Police identified the man's vehicle and are investigating the possibility of more firearms inside the vehicle. https://www.ky3.com/content/news/Heavy-police-presence-at-Walmart-Neighborhood-Market-in-south-Springfield-528602951.html?fbclid=IwAR2jOSR7h85Vt4wl6eihhrVlh1IbkaPuWhTOdG-U4A-f2r3NOwsrYR_yN5o This guy wasn't actually shooting anyone, but he certainly "fit the profile" of a potential mass shooter: young, white man carrying a gun and ammunition. I wonder how outraged the pro-gun community would become if everyone started calling the police on people who were open carrying and subjectively looking like a perceived threat. Probably about as outraged as the black community, when they're driving or walking or grilling or breathing "suspiciously". Fits the profile of a good guy with a gun, too. There will still be millions of guns in the country if they’re banned, but then you’d have someone intent on criminal mayhem carrying, and the firefighter disarmed. I applaud the good guy with a gun. I hope America continues to protect his right to purchase and bear his firearm in public for his whole life, and that he passes that noble tradition down to children. He's not a "good guy with a gun". That trope is supposed to describe a hypothetical vigilante who specifically stops a "bad guy with a gun" by interrupting a mass shooting before the police can intervene. There's no violence going on here, not to mention that we know that the "good guy with a gun" meme is basically a myth, as more people shooting more guns adds to the chaos and confusion and body count, rather than "nobly" protecting the masses. The nature of his arrest for making a terrorist threat means this is an example, pending possible future evidence that he wasn’t carrying or brandishing it in a threatening way after all. He was successfully detained before the police could intervene. In this case, holding gun in a threatening manner inconsistent with state law on open carry provisions. I would’ve thought the gun control crowd would be overall supportive of these kind of gun laws, and concerned citizens helping the police in their enforcement, but color me surprised. This is why people call you disingenuous. There is no way you believe this sentence. I find it perfectly reasonable and consistent.
Just to flip it around, imagine some forum regular demanding agreement that the second amendment does not reasonably protect somebody brandishing the rifle or making verbal threats gesturing with the rifle. I say “Correct, I think that’s a reasonable legislative restriction on/not covered under your second amendment rights.” Is that at all inconsistent or disingenuous? Can we give the Disingenuous and Evil Detectives routine a rest?
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On August 10 2019 03:48 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2019 03:28 Fleetfeet wrote:On August 10 2019 01:54 Danglars wrote:On August 09 2019 22:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Directly related to mass shootings: The worry that someone decked out like Rambo in public is going to commit one... Former firefighter stops man armed with 100 rounds of ammunition at south Springfield Walmart
SPRINGFIELD, Mo. The Springfield Police Department says it responded to a call of an active shooter at the Walmart Neighborhood Market at Republic Rd., near Golden Ave., Thursday evening.
The Springfield Police Department arrived on scene within three minutes of the call. Police stated that a young white male, appearing to be in his twenties, pulled up to the Walmart, where he donned body armor and military fatigues. Police say the man had tactical weapons.
Police then say the man walked into the Walmart: Neighborhood Market where he grabbed a cart and began pushing it around the store. Police say the man was recording himself walking through the store via a cell phone.
The store manager at the Neighborhood Market pulled a fire alarm, urging people to escape the store.
Police say the man then made his way out an emergency exit where a former firefighter held the man at gunpoint. At that moment Springfield Police arrived on scene and detained the man.
The Springfield Police Department could not confirm the nature of statements said by the man to those inside of the Walmart, but they do confirm that the man had loaded weapons, and over one hundred rounds of ammunition.
Police also observed many shoppers hiding outside the Walmart and at nearby businesses.
Lieutenant Mike Lucas said it was clear the man's intent was to cause chaos, saying in part, "His intent was not to cause peace or comfort...He's lucky he's alive still, to be honest."
Police identified the man's vehicle and are investigating the possibility of more firearms inside the vehicle. https://www.ky3.com/content/news/Heavy-police-presence-at-Walmart-Neighborhood-Market-in-south-Springfield-528602951.html?fbclid=IwAR2jOSR7h85Vt4wl6eihhrVlh1IbkaPuWhTOdG-U4A-f2r3NOwsrYR_yN5o This guy wasn't actually shooting anyone, but he certainly "fit the profile" of a potential mass shooter: young, white man carrying a gun and ammunition. I wonder how outraged the pro-gun community would become if everyone started calling the police on people who were open carrying and subjectively looking like a perceived threat. Probably about as outraged as the black community, when they're driving or walking or grilling or breathing "suspiciously". Fits the profile of a good guy with a gun, too. There will still be millions of guns in the country if they’re banned, but then you’d have someone intent on criminal mayhem carrying, and the firefighter disarmed. I applaud the good guy with a gun. I hope America continues to protect his right to purchase and bear his firearm in public for his whole life, and that he passes that noble tradition down to children. And I hope the system changes to where the good guy with a handgun doesn't have his walmart trip interrupted by a kid with a rifle. You can glorify the noble tradition all you want - that glory still plays in to why people engage this show of power. Make the 'noble' thing noble. Let it earn its title back. This story is stark evidence that carrying a firearm is NOT noble in America at the moment. Firefighter does insane judo chop to disarm bad guy with a gun? You can imagine a better world all you want, but all I see changed is a disarmed firefighter watching helplessly and you having the exact same take with a bigger body count.
This does not at all address what I have said. I did not contest your 'good guy with a gun' assertion, nor that good guy's right to own a gun.
I imagine a world in which this firefighter could legally own and carry a firearm, having earned that right through a challenging set of legal checks and barriers that makes owning a gun no casual affair, and something of a sign of pride. I imagine in this world he does not encounter a 20 year old kid with a bigger firearm terrorizing a walmart merely by existing dressed for a warzone.
My contest against your post was that you listed gun ownership as a noble tradition. I agree that it could be. It sure as fuck is not, right now. When guns are an icon for safety and not an icon for fear, we can discuss whether or not the right to own guns is noble.
(Edited out a useless part)
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On August 10 2019 05:53 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2019 04:38 Sermokala wrote:On August 10 2019 04:26 JimmiC wrote:On August 10 2019 04:23 Danglars wrote:On August 10 2019 04:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 10 2019 01:54 Danglars wrote:On August 09 2019 22:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Directly related to mass shootings: The worry that someone decked out like Rambo in public is going to commit one... Former firefighter stops man armed with 100 rounds of ammunition at south Springfield Walmart
SPRINGFIELD, Mo. The Springfield Police Department says it responded to a call of an active shooter at the Walmart Neighborhood Market at Republic Rd., near Golden Ave., Thursday evening.
The Springfield Police Department arrived on scene within three minutes of the call. Police stated that a young white male, appearing to be in his twenties, pulled up to the Walmart, where he donned body armor and military fatigues. Police say the man had tactical weapons.
Police then say the man walked into the Walmart: Neighborhood Market where he grabbed a cart and began pushing it around the store. Police say the man was recording himself walking through the store via a cell phone.
The store manager at the Neighborhood Market pulled a fire alarm, urging people to escape the store.
Police say the man then made his way out an emergency exit where a former firefighter held the man at gunpoint. At that moment Springfield Police arrived on scene and detained the man.
The Springfield Police Department could not confirm the nature of statements said by the man to those inside of the Walmart, but they do confirm that the man had loaded weapons, and over one hundred rounds of ammunition.
Police also observed many shoppers hiding outside the Walmart and at nearby businesses.
Lieutenant Mike Lucas said it was clear the man's intent was to cause chaos, saying in part, "His intent was not to cause peace or comfort...He's lucky he's alive still, to be honest."
Police identified the man's vehicle and are investigating the possibility of more firearms inside the vehicle. https://www.ky3.com/content/news/Heavy-police-presence-at-Walmart-Neighborhood-Market-in-south-Springfield-528602951.html?fbclid=IwAR2jOSR7h85Vt4wl6eihhrVlh1IbkaPuWhTOdG-U4A-f2r3NOwsrYR_yN5o This guy wasn't actually shooting anyone, but he certainly "fit the profile" of a potential mass shooter: young, white man carrying a gun and ammunition. I wonder how outraged the pro-gun community would become if everyone started calling the police on people who were open carrying and subjectively looking like a perceived threat. Probably about as outraged as the black community, when they're driving or walking or grilling or breathing "suspiciously". Fits the profile of a good guy with a gun, too. There will still be millions of guns in the country if they’re banned, but then you’d have someone intent on criminal mayhem carrying, and the firefighter disarmed. I applaud the good guy with a gun. I hope America continues to protect his right to purchase and bear his firearm in public for his whole life, and that he passes that noble tradition down to children. He's not a "good guy with a gun". That trope is supposed to describe a hypothetical vigilante who specifically stops a "bad guy with a gun" by interrupting a mass shooting before the police can intervene. There's no violence going on here, not to mention that we know that the "good guy with a gun" meme is basically a myth, as more people shooting more guns adds to the chaos and confusion and body count, rather than "nobly" protecting the masses. The nature of his arrest for making a terrorist threat means this is an example, pending possible future evidence that he wasn’t carrying or brandishing it in a threatening way after all. He was successfully detained before the police could intervene. In this case, holding gun in a threatening manner inconsistent with state law on open carry provisions. I would’ve thought the gun control crowd would be overall supportive of these kind of gun laws, and concerned citizens helping the police in their enforcement, but color me surprised. This is why people call you disingenuous. There is no way you believe this sentence. I find it perfectly reasonable and consistent. Just to flip it around, imagine some forum regular demanding agreement that the second amendment does not reasonably protect somebody brandishing the rifle or making verbal threats gesturing with the rifle. I say “Correct, I think that’s a reasonable legislative restriction on/not covered under your second amendment rights.” Is that at all inconsistent or disingenuous? Can we give the Disingenuous and Evil Detectives routine a rest?
Is this your way of attempting to suggest I'm not asking a legitimate question about your assertion of who the "good guy with a gun" was in this situation?
The only people reported to have brandished their weapons in a threatening manner are the people you called "the good guys", you've seemed to side with the gun control crowd that simply legally carrying one's gun warrants your life being threatened and it's unclear whether you think the citizen should have a right to defend himself from such threats.
As far as I can tell you're siding with random civilians threatening and aiming guns at law abiding gun owners (who should be defenseless) and a fascist state arresting innocent gun owners on baseless charges.
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On August 10 2019 05:59 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2019 05:53 Danglars wrote:On August 10 2019 04:38 Sermokala wrote:On August 10 2019 04:26 JimmiC wrote:On August 10 2019 04:23 Danglars wrote:On August 10 2019 04:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 10 2019 01:54 Danglars wrote:On August 09 2019 22:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Directly related to mass shootings: The worry that someone decked out like Rambo in public is going to commit one... Former firefighter stops man armed with 100 rounds of ammunition at south Springfield Walmart
SPRINGFIELD, Mo. The Springfield Police Department says it responded to a call of an active shooter at the Walmart Neighborhood Market at Republic Rd., near Golden Ave., Thursday evening.
The Springfield Police Department arrived on scene within three minutes of the call. Police stated that a young white male, appearing to be in his twenties, pulled up to the Walmart, where he donned body armor and military fatigues. Police say the man had tactical weapons.
Police then say the man walked into the Walmart: Neighborhood Market where he grabbed a cart and began pushing it around the store. Police say the man was recording himself walking through the store via a cell phone.
The store manager at the Neighborhood Market pulled a fire alarm, urging people to escape the store.
Police say the man then made his way out an emergency exit where a former firefighter held the man at gunpoint. At that moment Springfield Police arrived on scene and detained the man.
The Springfield Police Department could not confirm the nature of statements said by the man to those inside of the Walmart, but they do confirm that the man had loaded weapons, and over one hundred rounds of ammunition.
Police also observed many shoppers hiding outside the Walmart and at nearby businesses.
Lieutenant Mike Lucas said it was clear the man's intent was to cause chaos, saying in part, "His intent was not to cause peace or comfort...He's lucky he's alive still, to be honest."
Police identified the man's vehicle and are investigating the possibility of more firearms inside the vehicle. https://www.ky3.com/content/news/Heavy-police-presence-at-Walmart-Neighborhood-Market-in-south-Springfield-528602951.html?fbclid=IwAR2jOSR7h85Vt4wl6eihhrVlh1IbkaPuWhTOdG-U4A-f2r3NOwsrYR_yN5o This guy wasn't actually shooting anyone, but he certainly "fit the profile" of a potential mass shooter: young, white man carrying a gun and ammunition. I wonder how outraged the pro-gun community would become if everyone started calling the police on people who were open carrying and subjectively looking like a perceived threat. Probably about as outraged as the black community, when they're driving or walking or grilling or breathing "suspiciously". Fits the profile of a good guy with a gun, too. There will still be millions of guns in the country if they’re banned, but then you’d have someone intent on criminal mayhem carrying, and the firefighter disarmed. I applaud the good guy with a gun. I hope America continues to protect his right to purchase and bear his firearm in public for his whole life, and that he passes that noble tradition down to children. He's not a "good guy with a gun". That trope is supposed to describe a hypothetical vigilante who specifically stops a "bad guy with a gun" by interrupting a mass shooting before the police can intervene. There's no violence going on here, not to mention that we know that the "good guy with a gun" meme is basically a myth, as more people shooting more guns adds to the chaos and confusion and body count, rather than "nobly" protecting the masses. The nature of his arrest for making a terrorist threat means this is an example, pending possible future evidence that he wasn’t carrying or brandishing it in a threatening way after all. He was successfully detained before the police could intervene. In this case, holding gun in a threatening manner inconsistent with state law on open carry provisions. I would’ve thought the gun control crowd would be overall supportive of these kind of gun laws, and concerned citizens helping the police in their enforcement, but color me surprised. This is why people call you disingenuous. There is no way you believe this sentence. I find it perfectly reasonable and consistent. Just to flip it around, imagine some forum regular demanding agreement that the second amendment does not reasonably protect somebody brandishing the rifle or making verbal threats gesturing with the rifle. I say “Correct, I think that’s a reasonable legislative restriction on/not covered under your second amendment rights.” Is that at all inconsistent or disingenuous? Can we give the Disingenuous and Evil Detectives routine a rest? Is this your way of attempting to suggest I'm not asking a legitimate question about your assertion of who the "good guy with a gun" was in this situation? The only people reported to have brandished their weapons in a threatening manner are the people you called "the good guys", you've seemed to side with the gun control crowd that simply legally carrying one's gun warrants your life being threatened and it's unclear whether you think the citizen should have a right to defend himself from such threats. As far as I can tell you're siding with random civilians threatening and aiming guns at law abiding gun owners (who should be defenseless) and a fascist state arresting innocent gun owners on baseless charges.
No, that was for JimmiC, who was cosplaying or something. For yours, the arrest charge and scattered witness testimony does not point to lawful open carry. Simultaneously, the details matter to your question, and I don’t want to do a deep dive on initial reports before more are known.
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On August 10 2019 06:17 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2019 05:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 10 2019 05:53 Danglars wrote:On August 10 2019 04:38 Sermokala wrote:On August 10 2019 04:26 JimmiC wrote:On August 10 2019 04:23 Danglars wrote:On August 10 2019 04:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 10 2019 01:54 Danglars wrote:On August 09 2019 22:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Directly related to mass shootings: The worry that someone decked out like Rambo in public is going to commit one... Former firefighter stops man armed with 100 rounds of ammunition at south Springfield Walmart
SPRINGFIELD, Mo. The Springfield Police Department says it responded to a call of an active shooter at the Walmart Neighborhood Market at Republic Rd., near Golden Ave., Thursday evening.
The Springfield Police Department arrived on scene within three minutes of the call. Police stated that a young white male, appearing to be in his twenties, pulled up to the Walmart, where he donned body armor and military fatigues. Police say the man had tactical weapons.
Police then say the man walked into the Walmart: Neighborhood Market where he grabbed a cart and began pushing it around the store. Police say the man was recording himself walking through the store via a cell phone.
The store manager at the Neighborhood Market pulled a fire alarm, urging people to escape the store.
Police say the man then made his way out an emergency exit where a former firefighter held the man at gunpoint. At that moment Springfield Police arrived on scene and detained the man.
The Springfield Police Department could not confirm the nature of statements said by the man to those inside of the Walmart, but they do confirm that the man had loaded weapons, and over one hundred rounds of ammunition.
Police also observed many shoppers hiding outside the Walmart and at nearby businesses.
Lieutenant Mike Lucas said it was clear the man's intent was to cause chaos, saying in part, "His intent was not to cause peace or comfort...He's lucky he's alive still, to be honest."
Police identified the man's vehicle and are investigating the possibility of more firearms inside the vehicle. https://www.ky3.com/content/news/Heavy-police-presence-at-Walmart-Neighborhood-Market-in-south-Springfield-528602951.html?fbclid=IwAR2jOSR7h85Vt4wl6eihhrVlh1IbkaPuWhTOdG-U4A-f2r3NOwsrYR_yN5o This guy wasn't actually shooting anyone, but he certainly "fit the profile" of a potential mass shooter: young, white man carrying a gun and ammunition. I wonder how outraged the pro-gun community would become if everyone started calling the police on people who were open carrying and subjectively looking like a perceived threat. Probably about as outraged as the black community, when they're driving or walking or grilling or breathing "suspiciously". Fits the profile of a good guy with a gun, too. There will still be millions of guns in the country if they’re banned, but then you’d have someone intent on criminal mayhem carrying, and the firefighter disarmed. I applaud the good guy with a gun. I hope America continues to protect his right to purchase and bear his firearm in public for his whole life, and that he passes that noble tradition down to children. He's not a "good guy with a gun". That trope is supposed to describe a hypothetical vigilante who specifically stops a "bad guy with a gun" by interrupting a mass shooting before the police can intervene. There's no violence going on here, not to mention that we know that the "good guy with a gun" meme is basically a myth, as more people shooting more guns adds to the chaos and confusion and body count, rather than "nobly" protecting the masses. The nature of his arrest for making a terrorist threat means this is an example, pending possible future evidence that he wasn’t carrying or brandishing it in a threatening way after all. He was successfully detained before the police could intervene. In this case, holding gun in a threatening manner inconsistent with state law on open carry provisions. I would’ve thought the gun control crowd would be overall supportive of these kind of gun laws, and concerned citizens helping the police in their enforcement, but color me surprised. This is why people call you disingenuous. There is no way you believe this sentence. I find it perfectly reasonable and consistent. Just to flip it around, imagine some forum regular demanding agreement that the second amendment does not reasonably protect somebody brandishing the rifle or making verbal threats gesturing with the rifle. I say “Correct, I think that’s a reasonable legislative restriction on/not covered under your second amendment rights.” Is that at all inconsistent or disingenuous? Can we give the Disingenuous and Evil Detectives routine a rest? Is this your way of attempting to suggest I'm not asking a legitimate question about your assertion of who the "good guy with a gun" was in this situation? The only people reported to have brandished their weapons in a threatening manner are the people you called "the good guys", you've seemed to side with the gun control crowd that simply legally carrying one's gun warrants your life being threatened and it's unclear whether you think the citizen should have a right to defend himself from such threats. As far as I can tell you're siding with random civilians threatening and aiming guns at law abiding gun owners (who should be defenseless) and a fascist state arresting innocent gun owners on baseless charges. No, that was for JimmiC, who was cosplaying or something. For yours, the arrest charge and scattered witness testimony does not point to lawful open carry. Simultaneously, the details matter to your question, and I don’t want to do a deep dive on initial reports before more are known.
Everything points to lawful carry by the victim that was arrested and everything points to the unlawful brandishing and threatening by the fire fighter and manager.
Granted we have the benefit of hindsight and prolonged contemplation, the situation already happened and decisions were made. I'm asking about that moment based on what's been reported and your designation of "the good guy with a gun".
Based on the reporting, the victim simply prepared himself to shop (appropriate gear given he's a good guy with a gun), proceeded to start shopping, and was treated inexplicably like a threat that warranted his life being threatened.
I think he would have been within his rights to neutralize the clear and present threats to his life? Are you disagreeing with that?
EDIT: The bottom line is if someone is pointing a gun at you that's a threat on your life, I'm arguing that it was then perfectly reasonable for the victim that was arrested to shoot the threat (person illegally brandishing a weapon in a threatening manner) as a good guy with a gun.
EDIT2: This could also include your "good guy" fireman who also illegally pointed a gun at/threatened and held hostage for moments a law abiding gun owner
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United States24752 Posts
I also am interested in what the in-the-moment facts were which point towards the guy with body armor and a rifle being something other with a good guy with a gun going shopping. How do the facts link back to the laws which permit the firefighter to draw his handgun and detain the guy with the rifle?
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On August 10 2019 07:27 micronesia wrote:
I also am interested in what the in-the-moment facts were which point towards the guy with body armor and a rifle being something other with a good guy with a gun going shopping. How do the facts link back to the laws which permit the firefighter to draw his handgun and detain the guy with the rifle?
There are none (that I've seen) and the somewhat flustered response of police and lack of charges being filed supports that interpretation. Which is why I found it interesting Danglars deemed what seems to me to be the guy who took a law abiding gun owner hostage at gunpoint as the "good guy".
As far as I can tell this victim would have been within their rights to kill both the manager and the firefighter in self-defense and it's only this good guy with a gun's cool head/clear headed assessment that prevented Danglars "good guy/s" (that appear to be the uncharged criminals in this situation) from being executed by the victim/good guy with a gun.
EDIT: That's without addressing the fascist state that has disarmed and detained him without formal charges.
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On August 10 2019 03:48 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2019 03:28 Fleetfeet wrote:On August 10 2019 01:54 Danglars wrote:On August 09 2019 22:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Directly related to mass shootings: The worry that someone decked out like Rambo in public is going to commit one... Former firefighter stops man armed with 100 rounds of ammunition at south Springfield Walmart
SPRINGFIELD, Mo. The Springfield Police Department says it responded to a call of an active shooter at the Walmart Neighborhood Market at Republic Rd., near Golden Ave., Thursday evening.
The Springfield Police Department arrived on scene within three minutes of the call. Police stated that a young white male, appearing to be in his twenties, pulled up to the Walmart, where he donned body armor and military fatigues. Police say the man had tactical weapons.
Police then say the man walked into the Walmart: Neighborhood Market where he grabbed a cart and began pushing it around the store. Police say the man was recording himself walking through the store via a cell phone.
The store manager at the Neighborhood Market pulled a fire alarm, urging people to escape the store.
Police say the man then made his way out an emergency exit where a former firefighter held the man at gunpoint. At that moment Springfield Police arrived on scene and detained the man.
The Springfield Police Department could not confirm the nature of statements said by the man to those inside of the Walmart, but they do confirm that the man had loaded weapons, and over one hundred rounds of ammunition.
Police also observed many shoppers hiding outside the Walmart and at nearby businesses.
Lieutenant Mike Lucas said it was clear the man's intent was to cause chaos, saying in part, "His intent was not to cause peace or comfort...He's lucky he's alive still, to be honest."
Police identified the man's vehicle and are investigating the possibility of more firearms inside the vehicle. https://www.ky3.com/content/news/Heavy-police-presence-at-Walmart-Neighborhood-Market-in-south-Springfield-528602951.html?fbclid=IwAR2jOSR7h85Vt4wl6eihhrVlh1IbkaPuWhTOdG-U4A-f2r3NOwsrYR_yN5o This guy wasn't actually shooting anyone, but he certainly "fit the profile" of a potential mass shooter: young, white man carrying a gun and ammunition. I wonder how outraged the pro-gun community would become if everyone started calling the police on people who were open carrying and subjectively looking like a perceived threat. Probably about as outraged as the black community, when they're driving or walking or grilling or breathing "suspiciously". Fits the profile of a good guy with a gun, too. There will still be millions of guns in the country if they’re banned, but then you’d have someone intent on criminal mayhem carrying, and the firefighter disarmed. I applaud the good guy with a gun. I hope America continues to protect his right to purchase and bear his firearm in public for his whole life, and that he passes that noble tradition down to children. And I hope the system changes to where the good guy with a handgun doesn't have his walmart trip interrupted by a kid with a rifle. You can glorify the noble tradition all you want - that glory still plays in to why people engage this show of power. Make the 'noble' thing noble. Let it earn its title back. This story is stark evidence that carrying a firearm is NOT noble in America at the moment. Firefighter does insane judo chop to disarm bad guy with a gun? You can imagine a better world all you want, but all I see changed is a disarmed firefighter watching helplessly and you having the exact same take with a bigger body count.
Wouldn't the whole situation have been made drastically better if simply neither had guns? That is, after all, the end result we're working towards here. We're not just disarming "good guy with the gun" but also the "bad guy with a gun".
Also, how the 2A community isn't outraged by this "legitimate gun owner" being held at gunpoint by a firefighter for the crime of simply carrying one is beyond me. The whole situation is dumb af.
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On August 10 2019 20:01 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2019 03:48 Danglars wrote:On August 10 2019 03:28 Fleetfeet wrote:On August 10 2019 01:54 Danglars wrote:On August 09 2019 22:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Directly related to mass shootings: The worry that someone decked out like Rambo in public is going to commit one... Former firefighter stops man armed with 100 rounds of ammunition at south Springfield Walmart
SPRINGFIELD, Mo. The Springfield Police Department says it responded to a call of an active shooter at the Walmart Neighborhood Market at Republic Rd., near Golden Ave., Thursday evening.
The Springfield Police Department arrived on scene within three minutes of the call. Police stated that a young white male, appearing to be in his twenties, pulled up to the Walmart, where he donned body armor and military fatigues. Police say the man had tactical weapons.
Police then say the man walked into the Walmart: Neighborhood Market where he grabbed a cart and began pushing it around the store. Police say the man was recording himself walking through the store via a cell phone.
The store manager at the Neighborhood Market pulled a fire alarm, urging people to escape the store.
Police say the man then made his way out an emergency exit where a former firefighter held the man at gunpoint. At that moment Springfield Police arrived on scene and detained the man.
The Springfield Police Department could not confirm the nature of statements said by the man to those inside of the Walmart, but they do confirm that the man had loaded weapons, and over one hundred rounds of ammunition.
Police also observed many shoppers hiding outside the Walmart and at nearby businesses.
Lieutenant Mike Lucas said it was clear the man's intent was to cause chaos, saying in part, "His intent was not to cause peace or comfort...He's lucky he's alive still, to be honest."
Police identified the man's vehicle and are investigating the possibility of more firearms inside the vehicle. https://www.ky3.com/content/news/Heavy-police-presence-at-Walmart-Neighborhood-Market-in-south-Springfield-528602951.html?fbclid=IwAR2jOSR7h85Vt4wl6eihhrVlh1IbkaPuWhTOdG-U4A-f2r3NOwsrYR_yN5o This guy wasn't actually shooting anyone, but he certainly "fit the profile" of a potential mass shooter: young, white man carrying a gun and ammunition. I wonder how outraged the pro-gun community would become if everyone started calling the police on people who were open carrying and subjectively looking like a perceived threat. Probably about as outraged as the black community, when they're driving or walking or grilling or breathing "suspiciously". Fits the profile of a good guy with a gun, too. There will still be millions of guns in the country if they’re banned, but then you’d have someone intent on criminal mayhem carrying, and the firefighter disarmed. I applaud the good guy with a gun. I hope America continues to protect his right to purchase and bear his firearm in public for his whole life, and that he passes that noble tradition down to children. And I hope the system changes to where the good guy with a handgun doesn't have his walmart trip interrupted by a kid with a rifle. You can glorify the noble tradition all you want - that glory still plays in to why people engage this show of power. Make the 'noble' thing noble. Let it earn its title back. This story is stark evidence that carrying a firearm is NOT noble in America at the moment. Firefighter does insane judo chop to disarm bad guy with a gun? You can imagine a better world all you want, but all I see changed is a disarmed firefighter watching helplessly and you having the exact same take with a bigger body count. Wouldn't the whole situation have been made drastically better if simply neither had guns? That is, after all, the end result we're working towards here. We're not just disarming "good guy with the gun" but also the "bad guy with a gun". Also, how the 2A community isn't outraged by this "legitimate gun owner" being held at gunpoint by a firefighter for the crime of simply carrying one is beyond me. The whole situation is dumb af.
unfortunately it isnt. the rest of the world would find that to be the obvious and perfectly acceptable solution, but to americans the aim is "lets let the good guys keep their guns but get rid of gun violence! oh wait, its not possible so lets do nothing and blame everything else for our problems instead."
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Disappointed no one that advocates the typical "good guy with a gun" argument has managed to clear this up. I have to say it seems like they are completely full of it if they can't.
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EPT
