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On February 10 2012 02:57 sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 02:45 DoubleReed wrote:People keep asking like the Christians are being a dick in this case but they arn't trying to change anything. being against something and talking about it is freedom of speech but forcing things on people is just bad. its real funny how you can assume the moral high ground when you are calling everyone else bigots. What? Is calling someone a bigot who is a bigot immoral? Freedom of speech? No one saying you're not allowed to have your views. We're condemning you for your views. That's how freedom of speech works. Nazis can say whatever they want and nonNazis call them out on their bullshit. There's no issue with freedom of speech here. I don't understand how christians are being attacked by this. What changes about their lives at all?? I don't understand how you can use the law to impose your beliefs on others and then play the victim!! Oh no you poor Christians! Not being able to enforce your power on others! Woe is you!! Look at this. now your calling Christians the same as nazis and bigots. Do you think that this might make them a little unhappy and treat you a little worse then if you where respectful of them? Look marriage is a big deal to us. You act like a complete dick to things that are important to us and you wonder why we feel that we are being attacked? are you anyway aware of how you sound right now? Let me try and help you understand it in a different way. What if when people are able to design their offspring that we find out that being gay is a genetic thing? Do you think that gay people will become extinct?
+ Show Spoiler +
You say marriage is a big deal to you. Why is it a big deal to you? Can you cite for me the books and verses of the Bible which explain this? Besides 1 Corinthians 7, which is basically Paul going on a big rant against sex in general, probably because he was single.
You say it is important to you and you feel attacked - do you also feel attacked by the millions of straight atheists who are getting married every year? Do you think they have the right to call their legal partnerships marriages?
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On February 10 2012 03:01 Greater Spire wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 02:57 sermokala wrote:On February 10 2012 02:45 DoubleReed wrote:People keep asking like the Christians are being a dick in this case but they arn't trying to change anything. being against something and talking about it is freedom of speech but forcing things on people is just bad. its real funny how you can assume the moral high ground when you are calling everyone else bigots. What? Is calling someone a bigot who is a bigot immoral? Freedom of speech? No one saying you're not allowed to have your views. We're condemning you for your views. That's how freedom of speech works. Nazis can say whatever they want and nonNazis call them out on their bullshit. There's no issue with freedom of speech here. I don't understand how christians are being attacked by this. What changes about their lives at all?? I don't understand how you can use the law to impose your beliefs on others and then play the victim!! Oh no you poor Christians! Not being able to enforce your power on others! Woe is you!! Look at this. now your calling Christians the same as nazis and bigots. Do you think that this might make them a little unhappy and treat you a little worse then if you where respectful of them? Look marriage is a big deal to us. You act like a complete dick to things that are important to us and you wonder why we feel that we are being attacked? are you anyway aware of how you sound right now? Let me try and help you understand it in a different way. What if when people are able to design their offspring that we find out that being gay is a genetic thing? Do you think that gay people will become extinct? + Show Spoiler +You say marriage is a big deal to you. Why is it a big deal to you? Can you cite for me the books and verses of the Bible which explain this? Besides 1 Corinthians 7, which is basically Paul going on a big rant against sex in general, probably because he was single. You say it is important to you and you feel attacked - do you also feel attacked by the millions of straight atheists who are getting married every year? Do you think they have the right to call their legal partnerships marriages?
Image macro standard copy paste anti religious rhetoric. Just wonderful. amazing how low quality low post count users are with stuff like this.
Why is this thread still open btw mods? I reported it at the start for being a news report religious thread both things that I thought weren't allows and useualy get closed pretty quickly.
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On February 10 2012 02:40 sermokala wrote: If it had any name other then marriage it wouldn't have been a problem but the gay rights movement keep trying to poke the religious right and constantly try and fight them.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, what? There is such a thing as gay Christians. I highly doubt that the only reason why gay people are seeking the right to marry is because they want to start a verbal mudslinging match with the religious right.
Plenty of homosexuals are religious and/or conservative. To them it's not just a matter of picking a fight, but wanting to get married because the word 'marriage' has a meaning and value to them. I'm not even gay but I find it pretty offensive you're trying to put it as if all gay people were only seeking the right to marry to piss off other people.
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Here's another thought. What if I say to you sermokala - that because marriage has been around for longer than Christianity (to give you an idea of when Christianity started compared to earlier religions that had already been practicing marriage, see this graphical image: http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/history-of-religion.html)... To me, the idea that Christians can marry is offensive. Marriage is important to me and my family of atheists, so therefore I am against Christians calling their relationship marriages, because I've grown up with the idea that because my parents aren't married and their relationship is special, the fact that you Christians call it a union between a man and a woman and God, I find to be disgusting and shitting all over my definition of two atheists.
See how ridiculous your argument looks?
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On February 10 2012 03:07 sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 03:01 Greater Spire wrote:On February 10 2012 02:57 sermokala wrote:On February 10 2012 02:45 DoubleReed wrote:People keep asking like the Christians are being a dick in this case but they arn't trying to change anything. being against something and talking about it is freedom of speech but forcing things on people is just bad. its real funny how you can assume the moral high ground when you are calling everyone else bigots. What? Is calling someone a bigot who is a bigot immoral? Freedom of speech? No one saying you're not allowed to have your views. We're condemning you for your views. That's how freedom of speech works. Nazis can say whatever they want and nonNazis call them out on their bullshit. There's no issue with freedom of speech here. I don't understand how christians are being attacked by this. What changes about their lives at all?? I don't understand how you can use the law to impose your beliefs on others and then play the victim!! Oh no you poor Christians! Not being able to enforce your power on others! Woe is you!! Look at this. now your calling Christians the same as nazis and bigots. Do you think that this might make them a little unhappy and treat you a little worse then if you where respectful of them? Look marriage is a big deal to us. You act like a complete dick to things that are important to us and you wonder why we feel that we are being attacked? are you anyway aware of how you sound right now? Let me try and help you understand it in a different way. What if when people are able to design their offspring that we find out that being gay is a genetic thing? Do you think that gay people will become extinct? + Show Spoiler +You say marriage is a big deal to you. Why is it a big deal to you? Can you cite for me the books and verses of the Bible which explain this? Besides 1 Corinthians 7, which is basically Paul going on a big rant against sex in general, probably because he was single. You say it is important to you and you feel attacked - do you also feel attacked by the millions of straight atheists who are getting married every year? Do you think they have the right to call their legal partnerships marriages? Image macro standard copy paste anti religious rhetoric. Just wonderful. amazing how low quality low post count users are with stuff like this. Why is this thread still open btw mods? I reported it at the start for being a news report religious thread both things that I thought weren't allows and useualy get closed pretty quickly.
Care to address any of the questions or were they too hard for you to justifiably defend?
Edit: This is not a religious thread - it is a gay rights thread. The fact that Christians have a problem with it is their problem. If Christians suddenly decided they do not like My Little Pony, that doesn't make the My Little Pony thread a religious thread.
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On February 10 2012 03:07 Sawajiri wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 02:40 sermokala wrote: If it had any name other then marriage it wouldn't have been a problem but the gay rights movement keep trying to poke the religious right and constantly try and fight them.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, what? There is such a thing as gay Christians. I highly doubt that the only reason why gay people are seeking the right to marry is because they want to start a verbal mudslinging match with the religious right. Plenty of homosexuals are religious and/or conservative. To them it's not just a matter of picking a fight, but wanting to get married because the word 'marriage' has a meaning and value to them. I'm not even gay but I find it pretty offensive you're trying to put it as if all gay people were only seeking the right to marry to piss off other people.
Its not gay people that are causing the problem. the leading protestant organization is now allowing gay pastors to serve. Its all the anti religious people coming out of the woodwork to shit on religious people with easy ammunition. we either object to it and get called bigots or don't and get called hypocrites.
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Some ideas for you to consider (pics):
+ Show Spoiler +
User was warned for this post
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On February 10 2012 03:09 Greater Spire wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 03:07 sermokala wrote:On February 10 2012 03:01 Greater Spire wrote:On February 10 2012 02:57 sermokala wrote:On February 10 2012 02:45 DoubleReed wrote:People keep asking like the Christians are being a dick in this case but they arn't trying to change anything. being against something and talking about it is freedom of speech but forcing things on people is just bad. its real funny how you can assume the moral high ground when you are calling everyone else bigots. What? Is calling someone a bigot who is a bigot immoral? Freedom of speech? No one saying you're not allowed to have your views. We're condemning you for your views. That's how freedom of speech works. Nazis can say whatever they want and nonNazis call them out on their bullshit. There's no issue with freedom of speech here. I don't understand how christians are being attacked by this. What changes about their lives at all?? I don't understand how you can use the law to impose your beliefs on others and then play the victim!! Oh no you poor Christians! Not being able to enforce your power on others! Woe is you!! Look at this. now your calling Christians the same as nazis and bigots. Do you think that this might make them a little unhappy and treat you a little worse then if you where respectful of them? Look marriage is a big deal to us. You act like a complete dick to things that are important to us and you wonder why we feel that we are being attacked? are you anyway aware of how you sound right now? Let me try and help you understand it in a different way. What if when people are able to design their offspring that we find out that being gay is a genetic thing? Do you think that gay people will become extinct? + Show Spoiler +You say marriage is a big deal to you. Why is it a big deal to you? Can you cite for me the books and verses of the Bible which explain this? Besides 1 Corinthians 7, which is basically Paul going on a big rant against sex in general, probably because he was single. You say it is important to you and you feel attacked - do you also feel attacked by the millions of straight atheists who are getting married every year? Do you think they have the right to call their legal partnerships marriages? Image macro standard copy paste anti religious rhetoric. Just wonderful. amazing how low quality low post count users are with stuff like this. Why is this thread still open btw mods? I reported it at the start for being a news report religious thread both things that I thought weren't allows and useualy get closed pretty quickly. Care to address any of the questions or were they too hard for you to justifiably defend?
why should I address the arguments you copy paste off of reddit when you don't address any of my questions? you can't play the "why are you avoiding my questions" when this whole time you're avoiding mine.
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Hurray for humanity! There is no reason why gay marriage shouldn't be allowed everywhere. Religion :/
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Look at this. now your calling Christians the same as nazis and bigots. Do you think that this might make them a little unhappy and treat you a little worse then if you where respectful of them?
Look marriage is a big deal to us. You act like a complete dick to things that are important to us and you wonder why we feel that we are being attacked? are you anyway aware of how you sound right now?
Let me try and help you understand it in a different way. What if when people are able to design their offspring that we find out that being gay is a genetic thing? Do you think that gay people will become extinct?
Actually I wasn't comparing you to nazis I was just explaining freedom of speech. I didn't mean for you take to it that way.
I'm acting like a complete dick? I'm not advocating against you believing what you believe. I'm advocating against you imposing your beliefs on others. You don't think gays should call it marriage then don't get married to someone of the same sex. Bam. That's a great solution for you.
But no. Thats not good enough. You have tell to people how to live their lives. And when they fight back you have the gall to play the victim??? What a fucking joke.
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On February 10 2012 03:10 sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 03:07 Sawajiri wrote:On February 10 2012 02:40 sermokala wrote: If it had any name other then marriage it wouldn't have been a problem but the gay rights movement keep trying to poke the religious right and constantly try and fight them.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, what? There is such a thing as gay Christians. I highly doubt that the only reason why gay people are seeking the right to marry is because they want to start a verbal mudslinging match with the religious right. Plenty of homosexuals are religious and/or conservative. To them it's not just a matter of picking a fight, but wanting to get married because the word 'marriage' has a meaning and value to them. I'm not even gay but I find it pretty offensive you're trying to put it as if all gay people were only seeking the right to marry to piss off other people. Its not gay people that are causing the problem. the leading protestant organization is now allowing gay pastors to serve. Its all the anti religious people coming out of the woodwork to shit on religious people with easy ammunition. we either object to it and get called bigots or don't and get called hypocrites.
Then leave the leading Protestant organisation. Nobody is forcing you to be a part of it. The fact that there are Church services every Sunday that I disagree with does not mean I am forced to attend.
I can "shit on religious people" even without gay marriage - there are many things religious people can be reasonably attacked on - the fact that they are against abortion, the fact that they are against euthanasia, the fact that they are against evolution, the fact that they are against contraception, etc. And furthermore - why are you using words like shit when you are supposedly a Christian? Isn't that rather unChristian?
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On February 10 2012 03:14 sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 03:09 Greater Spire wrote:On February 10 2012 03:07 sermokala wrote:On February 10 2012 03:01 Greater Spire wrote:On February 10 2012 02:57 sermokala wrote:On February 10 2012 02:45 DoubleReed wrote:People keep asking like the Christians are being a dick in this case but they arn't trying to change anything. being against something and talking about it is freedom of speech but forcing things on people is just bad. its real funny how you can assume the moral high ground when you are calling everyone else bigots. What? Is calling someone a bigot who is a bigot immoral? Freedom of speech? No one saying you're not allowed to have your views. We're condemning you for your views. That's how freedom of speech works. Nazis can say whatever they want and nonNazis call them out on their bullshit. There's no issue with freedom of speech here. I don't understand how christians are being attacked by this. What changes about their lives at all?? I don't understand how you can use the law to impose your beliefs on others and then play the victim!! Oh no you poor Christians! Not being able to enforce your power on others! Woe is you!! Look at this. now your calling Christians the same as nazis and bigots. Do you think that this might make them a little unhappy and treat you a little worse then if you where respectful of them? Look marriage is a big deal to us. You act like a complete dick to things that are important to us and you wonder why we feel that we are being attacked? are you anyway aware of how you sound right now? Let me try and help you understand it in a different way. What if when people are able to design their offspring that we find out that being gay is a genetic thing? Do you think that gay people will become extinct? + Show Spoiler +You say marriage is a big deal to you. Why is it a big deal to you? Can you cite for me the books and verses of the Bible which explain this? Besides 1 Corinthians 7, which is basically Paul going on a big rant against sex in general, probably because he was single. You say it is important to you and you feel attacked - do you also feel attacked by the millions of straight atheists who are getting married every year? Do you think they have the right to call their legal partnerships marriages? Image macro standard copy paste anti religious rhetoric. Just wonderful. amazing how low quality low post count users are with stuff like this. Why is this thread still open btw mods? I reported it at the start for being a news report religious thread both things that I thought weren't allows and useualy get closed pretty quickly. Care to address any of the questions or were they too hard for you to justifiably defend? why should I address the arguments you copy paste off of reddit when you don't address any of my questions? you can't play the "why are you avoiding my questions" when this whole time you're avoiding mine.
Uhh, I have replied to every single one of your posts and all you've done, instead of addressing anything I say, is ignore the argument and then raise another equally ridiculous one for me to rebut.
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On February 10 2012 02:57 sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 02:45 DoubleReed wrote:People keep asking like the Christians are being a dick in this case but they arn't trying to change anything. being against something and talking about it is freedom of speech but forcing things on people is just bad. its real funny how you can assume the moral high ground when you are calling everyone else bigots. What? Is calling someone a bigot who is a bigot immoral? Freedom of speech? No one saying you're not allowed to have your views. We're condemning you for your views. That's how freedom of speech works. Nazis can say whatever they want and nonNazis call them out on their bullshit. There's no issue with freedom of speech here. I don't understand how christians are being attacked by this. What changes about their lives at all?? I don't understand how you can use the law to impose your beliefs on others and then play the victim!! Oh no you poor Christians! Not being able to enforce your power on others! Woe is you!! Look at this. now your calling Christians the same as nazis and bigots. Do you think that this might make them a little unhappy and treat you a little worse then if you where respectful of them? Look marriage is a big deal to us. You act like a complete dick to things that are important to us and you wonder why we feel that we are being attacked? are you anyway aware of how you sound right now? Let me try and help you understand it in a different way. What if when people are able to design their offspring that we find out that being gay is a genetic thing? Do you think that gay people will become extinct?
Why is marriage a big deal to you christians when it actually has little if anything to do with christianity? Marriage is sanctioned by the state not the church, the church involvement is purely ceremonial. Marriage pre-dates christanity by many thousands of years and has existed in one name or another in almost every culture, its a bit late in the day to try and lay sole claim to it now.
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On February 10 2012 02:57 sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 02:45 DoubleReed wrote:People keep asking like the Christians are being a dick in this case but they arn't trying to change anything. being against something and talking about it is freedom of speech but forcing things on people is just bad. its real funny how you can assume the moral high ground when you are calling everyone else bigots. What? Is calling someone a bigot who is a bigot immoral? Freedom of speech? No one saying you're not allowed to have your views. We're condemning you for your views. That's how freedom of speech works. Nazis can say whatever they want and nonNazis call them out on their bullshit. There's no issue with freedom of speech here. I don't understand how christians are being attacked by this. What changes about their lives at all?? I don't understand how you can use the law to impose your beliefs on others and then play the victim!! Oh no you poor Christians! Not being able to enforce your power on others! Woe is you!! Look at this. now your calling Christians the same as nazis and bigots. Do you think that this might make them a little unhappy and treat you a little worse then if you where respectful of them? Look marriage is a big deal to us. You act like a complete dick to things that are important to us and you wonder why we feel that we are being attacked? are you anyway aware of how you sound right now? Let me try and help you understand it in a different way. What if when people are able to design their offspring that we find out that being gay is a genetic thing? Do you think that gay people will become extinct?
Marriage is a big deal to everyone, not just Christians. Many religions have very different views of how marriage should go down and each type of person deserves to have it go how they wish. The problem is that Christians are trying to make *other* people conform to Christian standards of marriage. As you said, marriage is important. That is why people are so outraged that other people's views are able to override their own, in a personal matter.
Being gay is certainly a natural thing and I hope you weren't trying to imply people make some kinda conscious decision to be gay. People are definitely born that way and you will only find scientific literature supporting that. I'm not even sure what you're getting at with asking if gay people would become extinct...
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On February 10 2012 03:15 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +Look at this. now your calling Christians the same as nazis and bigots. Do you think that this might make them a little unhappy and treat you a little worse then if you where respectful of them?
Look marriage is a big deal to us. You act like a complete dick to things that are important to us and you wonder why we feel that we are being attacked? are you anyway aware of how you sound right now?
Let me try and help you understand it in a different way. What if when people are able to design their offspring that we find out that being gay is a genetic thing? Do you think that gay people will become extinct? Actually I wasn't comparing you to nazis I was just explaining freedom of speech. I didn't mean for you take to it that way. I'm acting like a complete dick? I'm not advocating against you believing what you believe. I'm advocating against you imposing your beliefs on others. You don't think gays should call it marriage then don't get married to someone of the same sex. Bam. That's a great solution for you. But no. Thats not good enough. You have tell people how to live their lives. And when they fight back you have the gall to play the victim??? What a fucking joke.
Okay first when you quote someone you can just click on the quote button and it has their name and the whole post on there. it makes it a lot better and take less time.
Being against gay marriage isn't imposing our beliefs on other people. Stop reading propaganda on the issue all the time and think about it for yourself. if you want a shout fest on things your in the wrong place. At the very least if you want to debate someone start by being respectful and address all their points. its a real shame when the side that has a clear shared ideology is the one that thinks for themself and doesn't use pointless stawman arguments that they saw on some random site.
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I would like everyone to realize that I'm the only one on the other side of this argument and all but one post on page 15 have been about me in some way. I'll try and get to everyones posts but I'll need some time if this thread stays open.
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On February 09 2012 13:02 Yosho wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 13:00 1Eris1 wrote:On February 09 2012 12:55 Yosho wrote:On February 09 2012 12:49 bRiz wrote:
Don't know how I feel about this. On one hand, it's a positive answer to a problem being experienced in the GLT community, but I personally prefer to keep marriage between a man and a woman, though I don't think I'd vote for a restriction like that. Just a personal opinion. I wouldn't vote for this to pass but if I would vote to not let is pass. Although even in nature gay animals exist, I feel it's like any other deficiency that people / animals can be born with. One of the sole thing we rely on to define life is reproduction. You cannot do this naturally on gay people. Not to be rude but I don't count this as a step up, but as a step down. You say they are born with it, than why does it matter if they can get married? It's not like you're going to convince one of them to turn straight, and thus reproduce anyways. I figure it goes against nature. Why support it further? Mentally ill people who are born with deficiency's also should be restricted on what they can and can't do. I would not like a mentally handicapped person to operate extremely heavy machinery. And I don't think gay people should marry. I feel it's a defilement of what marriage is.
I feel that religion is the most nonsensical myth perpetrated by those who wish to use man's fear of the unknown and uncertainty of existence to manipulate and control him. Religion is not only legal, but it's virtually mandatory in several facets of life (Try getting elected being an atheist or agnostic, heck, even talking to the wrong invisible man is a no-go in most cases as well)
So basically, even thought I think a major part of your life and up-bringing, is ludicrous hocus-pocus, I still somewhat support your right to be delusional. If I wanted to believe I was a giant glass of OJ, I am well within my right to do so. You're clamming however, that two people who live together and are in love, shouldn't be allowed to get married because it offense your definition of a word?
Jesus Christ....
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On February 10 2012 03:23 sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 03:15 DoubleReed wrote:Look at this. now your calling Christians the same as nazis and bigots. Do you think that this might make them a little unhappy and treat you a little worse then if you where respectful of them?
Look marriage is a big deal to us. You act like a complete dick to things that are important to us and you wonder why we feel that we are being attacked? are you anyway aware of how you sound right now?
Let me try and help you understand it in a different way. What if when people are able to design their offspring that we find out that being gay is a genetic thing? Do you think that gay people will become extinct? Actually I wasn't comparing you to nazis I was just explaining freedom of speech. I didn't mean for you take to it that way. I'm acting like a complete dick? I'm not advocating against you believing what you believe. I'm advocating against you imposing your beliefs on others. You don't think gays should call it marriage then don't get married to someone of the same sex. Bam. That's a great solution for you. But no. Thats not good enough. You have tell people how to live their lives. And when they fight back you have the gall to play the victim??? What a fucking joke. Okay first when you quote someone you can just click on the quote button and it has their name and the whole post on there. it makes it a lot better and take less time. Being against gay marriage isn't imposing our beliefs on other people. Stop reading propaganda on the issue all the time and think about it for yourself. if you want a shout fest on things your in the wrong place. At the very least if you want to debate someone start by being respectful and address all their points. its a real shame when the side that has a clear shared ideology is the one that thinks for themself and doesn't use pointless stawman arguments that they saw on some random site.
Except it is when you try to block them from gaining their rights.
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I know several religious homosexuals. I seriously don't understand why they shouldn't be able to marry if all that's required to be a Christian is to believe that Jesus is God's son.
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On February 10 2012 03:23 sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 03:15 DoubleReed wrote:Look at this. now your calling Christians the same as nazis and bigots. Do you think that this might make them a little unhappy and treat you a little worse then if you where respectful of them?
Look marriage is a big deal to us. You act like a complete dick to things that are important to us and you wonder why we feel that we are being attacked? are you anyway aware of how you sound right now?
Let me try and help you understand it in a different way. What if when people are able to design their offspring that we find out that being gay is a genetic thing? Do you think that gay people will become extinct? Actually I wasn't comparing you to nazis I was just explaining freedom of speech. I didn't mean for you take to it that way. I'm acting like a complete dick? I'm not advocating against you believing what you believe. I'm advocating against you imposing your beliefs on others. You don't think gays should call it marriage then don't get married to someone of the same sex. Bam. That's a great solution for you. But no. Thats not good enough. You have tell people how to live their lives. And when they fight back you have the gall to play the victim??? What a fucking joke. Okay first when you quote someone you can just click on the quote button and it has their name and the whole post on there. it makes it a lot better and take less time. Being against gay marriage isn't imposing our beliefs on other people. Stop reading propaganda on the issue all the time and think about it for yourself. if you want a shout fest on things your in the wrong place. At the very least if you want to debate someone start by being respectful and address all their points. its a real shame when the side that has a clear shared ideology is the one that thinks for themself and doesn't use pointless stawman arguments that they saw on some random site.
Explain please.
You don't think gays should be married. You want to enact laws saying gays (who are other people) can't be married, regardless whether or not they disagree with you. That's what imposing your beliefs on others is.
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