:D how hard is it to download a img and upload it to a appropriate site so we can see it instead of click There are 16 slides there infact once of them i've already used but here are a few more + Show Spoiler +
You cant just list out a bunch of taxes and act as if the number of bullet points is what makes our tax burden so high.
I mean for example, capital gains taxes are lower than income taxes for many anyways. Estate taxes only count when someone dies and another inherits it. How are taxes like those relevant when talking about the tax burden US citizens have to worry about on a regular basis?
The point that I was making is that it isn't 35% when you look at all the taxes incorporated into every day life. It's around 45 - 60% when you look at people who are making 6 figure salaries (future me) while retaining an active role in the market.
This is just untrue. The highest tax bracket taxes at 35% and that is only on every dollar you make after 370k. It is mathematically impossible to be taxed 35% of your income from income tax alone. Using this as your base is just unrealistic.
Many people who are rich (executives, etc) make most of their money off of stock/options or real estate anyway. Gains from these are often taxed at a much lower rate. Many millionaires have gone on record saying that their effective tax rate is more than their secretaries. For example, William Buffet:
I wasn't saying that income is taxed at that rate, what I was saying is once you have other taxes incorporated besides income taxes, it can add up very fast in terms of the total percentage of your money you pay in the form of tax. I can say firsthand that my family forfeits roughly 48% of our income annually to taxes in one form or another. Whether or not you believe me on this statistic, I don't care, because i'm not putting all my family's economic data on an internet forum.
If you're not willing to elaborate on anecdotal evidence that you provided, then you shouldn't provide it.
Fine I'll throw you a couple of bones, but don't expect anything much more detailed than this.
Total income lost to taxes ~= 28% Property taxes / State Taxes (multiple states, multiple properties) ~= 16% Sales tax / gas tax / other misc taxes =~ 4% Total: 48%
Edit: reworded a sentence
Damn dude, how do you pay 28% in income taxes? My family also makes 6 figures and ive checked out our tax return for several years just because of curiosity. I cant remember our numbers that well since its been a couple months since tax season, but im pretty damn sure we dont pay 28% of our total income in taxes. Im not sure if we even pay 28% of our AGI in taxes.
Not sure how the accounting with your family works (and im not asking you to tell me) but paying such high amounts on sales, state, and property taxes should be able to net you a ton of deductions on your income tax return.
You cant just list out a bunch of taxes and act as if the number of bullet points is what makes our tax burden so high.
I mean for example, capital gains taxes are lower than income taxes for many anyways. Estate taxes only count when someone dies and another inherits it. How are taxes like those relevant when talking about the tax burden US citizens have to worry about on a regular basis?
The point that I was making is that it isn't 35% when you look at all the taxes incorporated into every day life. It's around 45 - 60% when you look at people who are making 6 figure salaries (future me) while retaining an active role in the market.
This is just untrue. The highest tax bracket taxes at 35% and that is only on every dollar you make after 370k. It is mathematically impossible to be taxed 35% of your income from income tax alone. Using this as your base is just unrealistic.
Many people who are rich (executives, etc) make most of their money off of stock/options or real estate anyway. Gains from these are often taxed at a much lower rate. Many millionaires have gone on record saying that their effective tax rate is more than their secretaries. For example, William Buffet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu5B-2LoC4s
I wasn't saying that income is taxed at that rate, what I was saying is once you have other taxes incorporated besides income taxes, it can add up very fast in terms of the total percentage of your money you pay in the form of tax. I can say firsthand that my family forfeits roughly 48% of our income annually to taxes in one form or another. Whether or not you believe me on this statistic, I don't care, because i'm not putting all my family's economic data on an internet forum.
If you're not willing to elaborate on anecdotal evidence that you provided, then you shouldn't provide it.
Fine I'll throw you a couple of bones, but don't expect anything much more detailed than this.
Total income lost to taxes ~= 28% Property taxes / State Taxes (multiple states, multiple properties) ~= 16% Sales tax / gas tax / other misc taxes =~ 4% Total: 48%
Edit: reworded a sentence
Damn dude, how do you pay 28% in income taxes? My family also makes 6 figures and ive checked out our tax return for several years just because of curiosity. I cant remember our numbers that well since its been a couple months since tax season, but im pretty damn sure we dont pay 28% of our total income in taxes. Im not sure if we even pay 28% of our AGI in taxes.
Not sure how the accounting with your family works (and im not asking you to tell me) but paying such high amounts on sales, state, and property taxes should be able to net you a ton of deductions on your income tax return.
Trust me we've looked, sadly there isn't a whole lot of wiggle room for our situation (The income tax is pretty fixed, and the state governments like to tax the crap out of the property we own, especially our lake cabin.)
When both your parents are pretty high up in companies they tend to make quite a bit. We do pretty well not gonna deny it. We'd have even more if my parents didn't have to put 4 more kids through college and if my grandmother wasn't in a nursing home.
You cant just list out a bunch of taxes and act as if the number of bullet points is what makes our tax burden so high.
I mean for example, capital gains taxes are lower than income taxes for many anyways. Estate taxes only count when someone dies and another inherits it. How are taxes like those relevant when talking about the tax burden US citizens have to worry about on a regular basis?
The point that I was making is that it isn't 35% when you look at all the taxes incorporated into every day life. It's around 45 - 60% when you look at people who are making 6 figure salaries (future me) while retaining an active role in the market.
This is just untrue. The highest tax bracket taxes at 35% and that is only on every dollar you make after 370k. It is mathematically impossible to be taxed 35% of your income from income tax alone. Using this as your base is just unrealistic.
Many people who are rich (executives, etc) make most of their money off of stock/options or real estate anyway. Gains from these are often taxed at a much lower rate. Many millionaires have gone on record saying that their effective tax rate is more than their secretaries. For example, William Buffet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu5B-2LoC4s
I wasn't saying that income is taxed at that rate, what I was saying is once you have other taxes incorporated besides income taxes, it can add up very fast in terms of the total percentage of your money you pay in the form of tax. I can say firsthand that my family forfeits roughly 48% of our income annually to taxes in one form or another. Whether or not you believe me on this statistic, I don't care, because i'm not putting all my family's economic data on an internet forum.
If you're not willing to elaborate on anecdotal evidence that you provided, then you shouldn't provide it.
Fine I'll throw you a couple of bones, but don't expect anything much more detailed than this.
Total income lost to taxes ~= 28% Property taxes / State Taxes (multiple states, multiple properties) ~= 16% Sales tax / gas tax / other misc taxes =~ 4% Total: 48%
Edit: reworded a sentence
Damn dude, how do you pay 28% in income taxes? My family also makes 6 figures and ive checked out our tax return for several years just because of curiosity. I cant remember our numbers that well since its been a couple months since tax season, but im pretty damn sure we dont pay 28% of our total income in taxes. Im not sure if we even pay 28% of our AGI in taxes.
Not sure how the accounting with your family works (and im not asking you to tell me) but paying such high amounts on sales, state, and property taxes should be able to net you a ton of deductions on your income tax return.
Trust me we've looked, sadly there isn't a whole lot of wiggle room for our situation (The income tax is pretty fixed, and the state governments like to tax the crap out of the property we own, especially our lake cabin.)
When both your parents are pretty high up in companies they tend to make quite a bit. We do pretty well not gonna deny it. We'd have even more if my parents didn't have to put 4 more kids through college and if my grandmother wasn't in a nursing home.
I agree with you. I might be liberal in a lot of things including taxing policy, but I hate the generalization that anyone making 6 figures is rich enough to be giving out money. We may make 6 figures but we still have tons of bills to pay and taxes to worry about. Its not all smooth sailing
You cant just list out a bunch of taxes and act as if the number of bullet points is what makes our tax burden so high.
I mean for example, capital gains taxes are lower than income taxes for many anyways. Estate taxes only count when someone dies and another inherits it. How are taxes like those relevant when talking about the tax burden US citizens have to worry about on a regular basis?
The point that I was making is that it isn't 35% when you look at all the taxes incorporated into every day life. It's around 45 - 60% when you look at people who are making 6 figure salaries (future me) while retaining an active role in the market.
This is just untrue. The highest tax bracket taxes at 35% and that is only on every dollar you make after 370k. It is mathematically impossible to be taxed 35% of your income from income tax alone. Using this as your base is just unrealistic.
Many people who are rich (executives, etc) make most of their money off of stock/options or real estate anyway. Gains from these are often taxed at a much lower rate. Many millionaires have gone on record saying that their effective tax rate is more than their secretaries. For example, William Buffet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu5B-2LoC4s
I wasn't saying that income is taxed at that rate, what I was saying is once you have other taxes incorporated besides income taxes, it can add up very fast in terms of the total percentage of your money you pay in the form of tax. I can say firsthand that my family forfeits roughly 48% of our income annually to taxes in one form or another. Whether or not you believe me on this statistic, I don't care, because i'm not putting all my family's economic data on an internet forum.
If you're not willing to elaborate on anecdotal evidence that you provided, then you shouldn't provide it.
Fine I'll throw you a couple of bones, but don't expect anything much more detailed than this.
Total income lost to taxes ~= 28% Property taxes / State Taxes (multiple states, multiple properties) ~= 16% Sales tax / gas tax / other misc taxes =~ 4% Total: 48%
Edit: reworded a sentence
Damn dude, how do you pay 28% in income taxes? My family also makes 6 figures and ive checked out our tax return for several years just because of curiosity. I cant remember our numbers that well since its been a couple months since tax season, but im pretty damn sure we dont pay 28% of our total income in taxes. Im not sure if we even pay 28% of our AGI in taxes.
Not sure how the accounting with your family works (and im not asking you to tell me) but paying such high amounts on sales, state, and property taxes should be able to net you a ton of deductions on your income tax return.
Trust me we've looked, sadly there isn't a whole lot of wiggle room for our situation (The income tax is pretty fixed, and the state governments like to tax the crap out of the property we own, especially our lake cabin.)
When both your parents are pretty high up in companies they tend to make quite a bit. We do pretty well not gonna deny it. We'd have even more if my parents didn't have to put 4 more kids through college and if my grandmother wasn't in a nursing home.
I agree with you. I might be liberal in a lot of things including taxing policy, but I hate the generalization that anyone making 6 figures is rich enough to be giving out money. We may make 6 figures but we still have tons of bills to pay and taxes to worry about. Its not all smooth sailing
It's quite arrogant for you to say that a person making 6 figures cannot spare to cut back while asking the government to cut back, because of pretty much self inflicted bills and taxes due to a higher consumption life style that one can afford while making that kind of money. 6 figures is also quite vague, althoguh either way you're making about double what the avg american makes something like 200k for a joint filing on a family of 4 say living in new york or california yields a different standard of living say to that same situation living in say tennessee.
You cant just list out a bunch of taxes and act as if the number of bullet points is what makes our tax burden so high.
I mean for example, capital gains taxes are lower than income taxes for many anyways. Estate taxes only count when someone dies and another inherits it. How are taxes like those relevant when talking about the tax burden US citizens have to worry about on a regular basis?
The point that I was making is that it isn't 35% when you look at all the taxes incorporated into every day life. It's around 45 - 60% when you look at people who are making 6 figure salaries (future me) while retaining an active role in the market.
This is just untrue. The highest tax bracket taxes at 35% and that is only on every dollar you make after 370k. It is mathematically impossible to be taxed 35% of your income from income tax alone. Using this as your base is just unrealistic.
Many people who are rich (executives, etc) make most of their money off of stock/options or real estate anyway. Gains from these are often taxed at a much lower rate. Many millionaires have gone on record saying that their effective tax rate is more than their secretaries. For example, William Buffet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu5B-2LoC4s
I wasn't saying that income is taxed at that rate, what I was saying is once you have other taxes incorporated besides income taxes, it can add up very fast in terms of the total percentage of your money you pay in the form of tax. I can say firsthand that my family forfeits roughly 48% of our income annually to taxes in one form or another. Whether or not you believe me on this statistic, I don't care, because i'm not putting all my family's economic data on an internet forum.
You think this doesn't happen for the lower classes either? Sales taxes, sin taxes, payroll taxes, etc, etc also hit lower income earners. Payroll tax is actually capped, so once you hit a certain level of income, you don't pay further payroll tax on additional income.
That said, the reason why a flat tax is regarded as unfair:
Consider two families, couples with three children. One family earns 20k, the other earns 100k, pre tax. Let us assume no government welfare, and no other taxes. Let us also assume that a 20k income is sufficient for the following: basic transportation, basic shelter, plain clothing, sufficient food, maintenance and insurance of home + contents and $1000 a year left over for appliances, luxuries, health care, investment etc.
The 20k income family is barely squeaking by. They have $20 a week left over for discretionary spending. Taking the family to the cinema once per month would use up the remainder of the budget.
Consider now the 100k income family. Now let us assume that this family was originally a 20k family. At the beginning, they have the same lifestyle. Suddenly, the 100k family is earning 5x more than the 20k family. However, this does not tell the whole picture. The fixed expenditure of both families is 19k a year. Below this income, the family has to either go hungry, stop maintaining/insuring, wear tattered clothing, etc. Now, the 100k family has 81k a year left over for discretionary spending (upgrading transport, the house, new clothes, high quality food, appliances, luxuries, health care, investment).
You see, even though the 100k family makes five times more money, they have eighty one times more money to spend as they wish.
Now consider a 5% flat income tax. The 20k family now has an after tax income of 19k. They now have absolutely no money left over after buying the bare necessities. The 100k family still has 76k a year left over.
Now consider a 10% flat income tax. The 20k family now has 18k after tax. They can longer afford to feed every member of the family, while the 100k a year family still has 71k a year left for discretionary spending.
You cant just list out a bunch of taxes and act as if the number of bullet points is what makes our tax burden so high.
I mean for example, capital gains taxes are lower than income taxes for many anyways. Estate taxes only count when someone dies and another inherits it. How are taxes like those relevant when talking about the tax burden US citizens have to worry about on a regular basis?
The point that I was making is that it isn't 35% when you look at all the taxes incorporated into every day life. It's around 45 - 60% when you look at people who are making 6 figure salaries (future me) while retaining an active role in the market.
This is just untrue. The highest tax bracket taxes at 35% and that is only on every dollar you make after 370k. It is mathematically impossible to be taxed 35% of your income from income tax alone. Using this as your base is just unrealistic.
Many people who are rich (executives, etc) make most of their money off of stock/options or real estate anyway. Gains from these are often taxed at a much lower rate. Many millionaires have gone on record saying that their effective tax rate is more than their secretaries. For example, William Buffet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu5B-2LoC4s
I wasn't saying that income is taxed at that rate, what I was saying is once you have other taxes incorporated besides income taxes, it can add up very fast in terms of the total percentage of your money you pay in the form of tax. I can say firsthand that my family forfeits roughly 48% of our income annually to taxes in one form or another. Whether or not you believe me on this statistic, I don't care, because i'm not putting all my family's economic data on an internet forum.
If you're not willing to elaborate on anecdotal evidence that you provided, then you shouldn't provide it.
Fine I'll throw you a couple of bones, but don't expect anything much more detailed than this.
Total income lost to taxes ~= 28% Property taxes / State Taxes (multiple states, multiple properties) ~= 16% Sales tax / gas tax / other misc taxes =~ 4% Total: 48%
Edit: reworded a sentence
Damn dude, how do you pay 28% in income taxes? My family also makes 6 figures and ive checked out our tax return for several years just because of curiosity. I cant remember our numbers that well since its been a couple months since tax season, but im pretty damn sure we dont pay 28% of our total income in taxes. Im not sure if we even pay 28% of our AGI in taxes.
Not sure how the accounting with your family works (and im not asking you to tell me) but paying such high amounts on sales, state, and property taxes should be able to net you a ton of deductions on your income tax return.
Well you have to factor in state income taxes too, it's not like they don't exist. In CA I think it's around 9%-11%, I'm not sure off the top of my head, so you're jumping up more. Very little people would argue that a single household with one person making 6 figures (assuming 2 parents 2 children) would qualify as extremely rich anyways. At least in CA, where living expenses are high. You're usually middle to upper middle class. Well, that is on the threshold of making 6 figures (like making around 100k), not like 400k or something where you're pushing the top of upper middle (imo, that is).
You think this doesn't happen for the lower classes either? Sales taxes, sin taxes, payroll taxes, etc, etc also hit lower income earners. Payroll tax is actually capped, so once you hit a certain level of income, you don't pay further payroll tax on additional income.
That said, the reason why a flat tax is regarded as unfair:
Consider two families, couples with three children. One family earns 20k, the other earns 100k, pre tax. Let us assume no government welfare, and no other taxes. Let us also assume that a 20k income is sufficient for the following: basic transportation, basic shelter, plain clothing, sufficient food, maintenance and insurance of home + contents and $1000 a year left over for appliances, luxuries, health care, investment etc.
The 20k income family is barely squeaking by. They have $20 a week left over for discretionary spending. Taking the family to the cinema once per month would use up the remainder of the budget.
Consider now the 100k income family. Now let us assume that this family was originally a 20k family. At the beginning, they have the same lifestyle. Suddenly, the 100k family is earning 5x more than the 20k family. However, this does not tell the whole picture. The fixed expenditure of both families is 19k a year. Below this income, the family has to either go hungry, stop maintaining/insuring, wear tattered clothing, etc. Now, the 100k family has 81k a year left over for discretionary spending (upgrading transport, the house, new clothes, high quality food, appliances, luxuries, health care, investment).
You see, even though the 100k family makes five times more money, they have eighty one times more money to spend as they wish.
Now consider a 5% flat income tax. The 20k family now has an after tax income of 19k. They now have absolutely no money left over after buying the bare necessities. The 100k family still has 76k a year left over.
Now consider a 10% flat income tax. The 20k family now has 18k after tax. They can longer afford to feed every member of the family, while the 100k a year family still has 71k a year left for discretionary spending.
How the hell is that story even relevant. Maybe you shouldn't be trying to support a family of four on $20,000 a year? That's below minimum wage of a single person working full time! It's of my personal belief that you should not be able to support a family on minimum wage, and if you can, something is wrong. If you want to have a family, get a better job first. If you can't find one, don't have a family anytime soon as it's fiscally irresponsible. Otherwise you're relying on other people to feed your children because you can't do it yourself.
Amount of disposable income left after necessities is an utterly terrible argument imo, and your numbers presented are so ridiculous and extreme to try to portray your point it's simply dismissable.
The person making 100k probably works a lot harder too, has a more stressful job, went to college and incurred a ton of debt there he has to pay back when he wasn't working full time, probably works more than full time unlike the minimum wage worker, etc.
If you ARE trying to support a family on minimum wage and only one parent is working, you better damn well be working more than 40hr/week. Because that's what a TON of people that are making 6 figures are doing (new investment bankers, etc. work their fucking asses off year round working probably more than twice as much in a far more stressful environment).
FabledIntegral So you would undo the social safety nets of the new deal, the fair deal and the great society? You seem to not know that the lower your income and education level is, which often go hand in hand, the more likely you are to have children have multiple marriages pick up smoking et al. His numbers may seem ridiculous but 50% of americans make less then 33k a year if you're counting unemployed 41k if you're not and how many you suppose have a familys? what happens if one get laid off due to a volatile econ and frankly the lower your wage is the more expendable you are as it's likely to have less requirements to find a replacement. As you can see as we undone such things upward mobility for a person in this country has stagnated
Your comment on working harder is a lie, just because you make money more doesn't always coincide with working harder, just like making less doesn't mean you work less. And on avg if you look it up the lower your income is the higher your stress level is in life compared to that of a wealthier individual.
Remember this is in the context of raising taxes for the top earners in the country to help close the budget defect which the alternative esp proposed by republicans is to cut spending often in aid to the poor. When they throw out such crap like only half the people pay federal income tax, which is only true because they count people who are unemployed, retired or make such shitty pay like 20k a year that there would be little point to tax it as it would only further hurt your quality of life which in turn they would take from programs to help lift them out of that.
Remember this is in the context of raising taxes for the top earners in the country to help close the budget defect which the alternative esp proposed by republicans is to cut spending often in aid to the poor. When they throw out such crap like only half the people pay federal income tax, which is only true because they count people who are unemployed, retired or make such shitty pay like 20k a year that there would be little point to tax it as it would only further hurt your quality of life which in turn they would take from programs to help lift them out of that.
Even if you double the federal income tax collected every year, we'd still be in the red on an annual basis. Like it or not the the majority of the problem rests with government spending + wasteful practices, and that needs to be fixed before taxes even consider being raised, otherwise we'll just be wasting even more money.
Well if you shoot for a military ramp down going into 2020 you effectively cut the military budget in about half due to operations costs, things like reforming medicare/cade and retirement will also work into the long run(and frankly must to done else we get fucked by an increasing population using it), but raising taxes on those who can afford it is something that can be done now and the only bureaucracy around it would be to do it or not, instead of the 120 page bills saying how to do it. Sure i would like proper tax reform so it doesn't take a tax expert in order for me to file my taxes every year as frankly after seeing some other countries' tax forums i find ridiculous. But people claim they want to get government spending under control and raising taxes on the wealthiest esp the group warren buffet is talking about is not unprecedented and there is no legit economist that say it would have quite the effects as hurting the "job creators" meaning less jobs, even though high wealth doesn't mean you'd create jobs it just means you have alot of wealth.
On September 27 2011 09:25 Kiarip wrote: marginal tax rate is already 35% for the bracket you're talkign about that's absurdly high.
that's great you can take things out of context... see what that is a reply to... of course that response is meant to provocate 1 of 2 respones.
1 "oh i dint know it was that high" or 2 "i don't think that's high enough"
and if it's reply 2 i explain my reasoning why i think 35% is too high, and why the spending is too high in the first place, so that it's spending that needs to be cut and not taxes be raised.
We can both agree that spending needs to be cut. Also, revenues need to be raised - and I dont think the idea that the rich should pony up some is a bad one. Thats where we disagree. Stop thinking in absolutes. Both spending cuts and revenue increases are needed. Just because one initiative doesn't close the whole gap it doesn't mean it should be dismissed.
Also, you did not explain your logic, you only attempted to in a later post when challenged on it because the statement as you made it was clearly absurd.
On September 27 2011 09:55 Kiarip wrote:
srsly, your first contribution to this thread was to attack someone's money management skills when you don't know exactly what line of work they're in.
Actually, my first contribtion to this thread was 8 days ago. Once again, curious you should tell others to "read the thread before commenting" when you can't return the same courtesy.
If people are spending 16% of their income on property taxes then they either have too many properties for their income level or they do not earn an appropriate amount of income from said properties. Either way, in my eyes that points to a lack of money management skills unless they are expecting a bonanza on property prices. How likely do you think that is in the USA in the short to medium term?
In hindsight, I'll concede I'm not in a position to make an informed decision. Let me then say that his tax situation should not be used as a good example because it seems to be a massive outlier.
In closing, you haven't actually logically debunked anything. *Lots of words* is just that, repeating yourself in more exasperated tones doesn't make you more right. I'll echo the sentiments of the bloke that said you've just been repeating the same bullshit over and over.
I can't wait for your next installment of perfectly logical rebuttals to the fallcaious babble of the idiots who dare to disagree with you.
You cant just list out a bunch of taxes and act as if the number of bullet points is what makes our tax burden so high.
I mean for example, capital gains taxes are lower than income taxes for many anyways. Estate taxes only count when someone dies and another inherits it. How are taxes like those relevant when talking about the tax burden US citizens have to worry about on a regular basis?
The point that I was making is that it isn't 35% when you look at all the taxes incorporated into every day life. It's around 45 - 60% when you look at people who are making 6 figure salaries (future me) while retaining an active role in the market.
This is just untrue. The highest tax bracket taxes at 35% and that is only on every dollar you make after 370k. It is mathematically impossible to be taxed 35% of your income from income tax alone. Using this as your base is just unrealistic.
Many people who are rich (executives, etc) make most of their money off of stock/options or real estate anyway. Gains from these are often taxed at a much lower rate. Many millionaires have gone on record saying that their effective tax rate is more than their secretaries. For example, William Buffet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu5B-2LoC4s
I wasn't saying that income is taxed at that rate, what I was saying is once you have other taxes incorporated besides income taxes, it can add up very fast in terms of the total percentage of your money you pay in the form of tax. I can say firsthand that my family forfeits roughly 48% of our income annually to taxes in one form or another. Whether or not you believe me on this statistic, I don't care, because i'm not putting all my family's economic data on an internet forum.
If you're not willing to elaborate on anecdotal evidence that you provided, then you shouldn't provide it.
Fine I'll throw you a couple of bones, but don't expect anything much more detailed than this.
Total income lost to taxes ~= 28% Property taxes / State Taxes (multiple states, multiple properties) ~= 16% Sales tax / gas tax / other misc taxes =~ 4% Total: 48%
Edit: reworded a sentence
Damn dude, how do you pay 28% in income taxes? My family also makes 6 figures and ive checked out our tax return for several years just because of curiosity. I cant remember our numbers that well since its been a couple months since tax season, but im pretty damn sure we dont pay 28% of our total income in taxes. Im not sure if we even pay 28% of our AGI in taxes.
Not sure how the accounting with your family works (and im not asking you to tell me) but paying such high amounts on sales, state, and property taxes should be able to net you a ton of deductions on your income tax return.
Trust me we've looked, sadly there isn't a whole lot of wiggle room for our situation (The income tax is pretty fixed, and the state governments like to tax the crap out of the property we own, especially our lake cabin.)
When both your parents are pretty high up in companies they tend to make quite a bit. We do pretty well not gonna deny it. We'd have even more if my parents didn't have to put 4 more kids through college and if my grandmother wasn't in a nursing home.
I agree with you. I might be liberal in a lot of things including taxing policy, but I hate the generalization that anyone making 6 figures is rich enough to be giving out money. We may make 6 figures but we still have tons of bills to pay and taxes to worry about. Its not all smooth sailing
It's quite arrogant for you to say that a person making 6 figures cannot spare to cut back while asking the government to cut back, because of pretty much self inflicted bills and taxes due to a higher consumption life style that one can afford while making that kind of money. 6 figures is also quite vague, althoguh either way you're making about double what the avg american makes something like 200k for a joint filing on a family of 4 say living in new york or california yields a different standard of living say to that same situation living in say tennessee.
"Arrogant"? Its actually quite presumptuous of you to assume that my family has a higher consumption life style and further more to assume that I ever called for the government to cut spending.
First of all, Im a liberal and Im all for government spending, though you would have to be a partisan hack to say that we couldnt afford to be more efficient with it.
Second of all, its your kind of generalization that Im referring to. My father is the only wage earner in our family. He put 3 kids through college so that we wouldnt have to spend time working and taking away from our studies. We have a house that no one in their right mind would ever call luxurious and we owned 2 cars: A toyota previa for my mother to run errands, a jeep grand cherokee for my dad to get to work. I was given hand-me-down clothing all my life, being the youngest child, and we rarely traveled or went on vacations of any kind. I never received birthday or christmas gifts of any kind.
Dont fucking tell me we had a high consumption life style or that our expenses were any more "self inflicted" than an average middle class family.
If people are spending 16% of their income on property taxes then they either have too many properties for their income level or they do not earn an appropriate amount of income from said properties. Either way, in my eyes that points to a lack of money management skills unless they are expecting a bonanza on property prices.
They're investments that are taxed now... not all of them are our playthings.
All the money we make on them goes to paying them off, until we can sell them at a higher price that we deem appropriate. Contrary to your belief, we know what we're doing, and we're going to make bank when we do sell them (like we have in the past), even though we're taking it hard from taxes right now as we hold on to them.
Love how the ppl who's parents are making "6 figure incomes" are complaining about how they have a hard time putting 4 kids through school and having a grandmother in a nursing home.
Laughable actually.
Please ppl, take a step back from you life and look @ other peoples situations.
I know that 99% of ppl wont care. Heck, my own family has a fairly high income, but we are not living the hard life.
So once again, please don't complain when mommy and daddy buy you a nice sports car. Just remember there are ppl like me who take a 2 + hours bus ride commute.
The point that I was making is that it isn't 35% when you look at all the taxes incorporated into every day life. It's around 45 - 60% when you look at people who are making 6 figure salaries (future me) while retaining an active role in the market.
This is just untrue. The highest tax bracket taxes at 35% and that is only on every dollar you make after 370k. It is mathematically impossible to be taxed 35% of your income from income tax alone. Using this as your base is just unrealistic.
Many people who are rich (executives, etc) make most of their money off of stock/options or real estate anyway. Gains from these are often taxed at a much lower rate. Many millionaires have gone on record saying that their effective tax rate is more than their secretaries. For example, William Buffet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu5B-2LoC4s
I wasn't saying that income is taxed at that rate, what I was saying is once you have other taxes incorporated besides income taxes, it can add up very fast in terms of the total percentage of your money you pay in the form of tax. I can say firsthand that my family forfeits roughly 48% of our income annually to taxes in one form or another. Whether or not you believe me on this statistic, I don't care, because i'm not putting all my family's economic data on an internet forum.
If you're not willing to elaborate on anecdotal evidence that you provided, then you shouldn't provide it.
Fine I'll throw you a couple of bones, but don't expect anything much more detailed than this.
Total income lost to taxes ~= 28% Property taxes / State Taxes (multiple states, multiple properties) ~= 16% Sales tax / gas tax / other misc taxes =~ 4% Total: 48%
Edit: reworded a sentence
Damn dude, how do you pay 28% in income taxes? My family also makes 6 figures and ive checked out our tax return for several years just because of curiosity. I cant remember our numbers that well since its been a couple months since tax season, but im pretty damn sure we dont pay 28% of our total income in taxes. Im not sure if we even pay 28% of our AGI in taxes.
Not sure how the accounting with your family works (and im not asking you to tell me) but paying such high amounts on sales, state, and property taxes should be able to net you a ton of deductions on your income tax return.
Trust me we've looked, sadly there isn't a whole lot of wiggle room for our situation (The income tax is pretty fixed, and the state governments like to tax the crap out of the property we own, especially our lake cabin.)
When both your parents are pretty high up in companies they tend to make quite a bit. We do pretty well not gonna deny it. We'd have even more if my parents didn't have to put 4 more kids through college and if my grandmother wasn't in a nursing home.
I agree with you. I might be liberal in a lot of things including taxing policy, but I hate the generalization that anyone making 6 figures is rich enough to be giving out money. We may make 6 figures but we still have tons of bills to pay and taxes to worry about. Its not all smooth sailing
It's quite arrogant for you to say that a person making 6 figures cannot spare to cut back while asking the government to cut back, because of pretty much self inflicted bills and taxes due to a higher consumption life style that one can afford while making that kind of money. 6 figures is also quite vague, althoguh either way you're making about double what the avg american makes something like 200k for a joint filing on a family of 4 say living in new york or california yields a different standard of living say to that same situation living in say tennessee.
"Arrogant"? Its actually quite presumptuous of you to assume that my family has a higher consumption life style and further more to assume that I ever called for the government to cut spending.
First of all, Im a liberal and Im all for government spending, though you would have to be a partisan hack to say that we couldnt afford to be more efficient with it.
Second of all, its your kind of generalization that Im referring to. My father is the only wage earner in our family. He put 3 kids through college so that we wouldnt have to spend time working and taking away from our studies. We have a house that no one in their right mind would ever call luxurious and we owned 2 cars: A toyota previa for my mother to run errands, a jeep grand cherokee for my dad to get to work. I was given hand-me-down clothing all my life, being the youngest child, and we rarely traveled or went on vacations of any kind. I never received birthday or christmas gifts of any kind.
Dont fucking tell me we had a high consumption life style or that our expenses were any more "self inflicted" than an average middle class family.
Ok, your dad is making ATLEAST 100k. 3 kids through college should be no difficulty at all. My parents put 2 kids through university + graduate school. Neither of us worked during high school either.
I would disagree with you on the house aspect. Your father is not a complete idiot to be earning 1xx and not own a decent house in a very nice area. So PLEASE stop trying to pretend that you have a normal life style, because I call BS.
Also... If you infact have been saving so much money by living the life style of a 50k income house hold then why not give the excess unused money to the government??
Love how the ppl who's parents are making "6 figure incomes" are complaining about how they have a hard time putting 4 kids through school and having a grandmother in a nursing home.
Laughable actually.
I'm sure it really is, I do happen to do stand up on the side actually
.....How about you quit trolling and realize that 100k is by no means a shit ton of money (It's pretty good, but not as good as you make it out to be). 4 years of college here costs $80,000 here and decent nursing homes are insanely expensive, and on top of that there are always bills to pay.
Please ppl, take a step back from you life and look @ other peoples situations.
I'll do that once I've got all of my shit taken care of. We actually also do donate a ton of money to our church (OH NO RELIGON!) which does charitable work in the community, and helps feed the homeless on a daily basis.
So once again, please don't complain when mommy and daddy buy you a nice sports car. Just remember there are ppl like me who take a 2 + hours bus ride commute.
LOLOLOL sports car (I walk my ass to class everyday buddy), and you claim to be in a fairly well-off family and your parents won't even buy you a junker for a two hour round trip commute?? You're either trolling, poor, or your parents are stingy as fuck.
This thread makes me sad
Don't read it then, I'm trying quite hard to convert it from a "Bash all things Republican/Opulent thread" to a meaningful discussion. Maybe this is what's upsetting you.
On September 27 2011 13:06 RedDeckWins wrote: [quote]
This is just untrue. The highest tax bracket taxes at 35% and that is only on every dollar you make after 370k. It is mathematically impossible to be taxed 35% of your income from income tax alone. Using this as your base is just unrealistic.
Many people who are rich (executives, etc) make most of their money off of stock/options or real estate anyway. Gains from these are often taxed at a much lower rate. Many millionaires have gone on record saying that their effective tax rate is more than their secretaries. For example, William Buffet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu5B-2LoC4s
I wasn't saying that income is taxed at that rate, what I was saying is once you have other taxes incorporated besides income taxes, it can add up very fast in terms of the total percentage of your money you pay in the form of tax. I can say firsthand that my family forfeits roughly 48% of our income annually to taxes in one form or another. Whether or not you believe me on this statistic, I don't care, because i'm not putting all my family's economic data on an internet forum.
If you're not willing to elaborate on anecdotal evidence that you provided, then you shouldn't provide it.
Fine I'll throw you a couple of bones, but don't expect anything much more detailed than this.
Total income lost to taxes ~= 28% Property taxes / State Taxes (multiple states, multiple properties) ~= 16% Sales tax / gas tax / other misc taxes =~ 4% Total: 48%
Edit: reworded a sentence
Damn dude, how do you pay 28% in income taxes? My family also makes 6 figures and ive checked out our tax return for several years just because of curiosity. I cant remember our numbers that well since its been a couple months since tax season, but im pretty damn sure we dont pay 28% of our total income in taxes. Im not sure if we even pay 28% of our AGI in taxes.
Not sure how the accounting with your family works (and im not asking you to tell me) but paying such high amounts on sales, state, and property taxes should be able to net you a ton of deductions on your income tax return.
Trust me we've looked, sadly there isn't a whole lot of wiggle room for our situation (The income tax is pretty fixed, and the state governments like to tax the crap out of the property we own, especially our lake cabin.)
When both your parents are pretty high up in companies they tend to make quite a bit. We do pretty well not gonna deny it. We'd have even more if my parents didn't have to put 4 more kids through college and if my grandmother wasn't in a nursing home.
I agree with you. I might be liberal in a lot of things including taxing policy, but I hate the generalization that anyone making 6 figures is rich enough to be giving out money. We may make 6 figures but we still have tons of bills to pay and taxes to worry about. Its not all smooth sailing
It's quite arrogant for you to say that a person making 6 figures cannot spare to cut back while asking the government to cut back, because of pretty much self inflicted bills and taxes due to a higher consumption life style that one can afford while making that kind of money. 6 figures is also quite vague, althoguh either way you're making about double what the avg american makes something like 200k for a joint filing on a family of 4 say living in new york or california yields a different standard of living say to that same situation living in say tennessee.
"Arrogant"? Its actually quite presumptuous of you to assume that my family has a higher consumption life style and further more to assume that I ever called for the government to cut spending.
First of all, Im a liberal and Im all for government spending, though you would have to be a partisan hack to say that we couldnt afford to be more efficient with it.
Second of all, its your kind of generalization that Im referring to. My father is the only wage earner in our family. He put 3 kids through college so that we wouldnt have to spend time working and taking away from our studies. We have a house that no one in their right mind would ever call luxurious and we owned 2 cars: A toyota previa for my mother to run errands, a jeep grand cherokee for my dad to get to work. I was given hand-me-down clothing all my life, being the youngest child, and we rarely traveled or went on vacations of any kind. I never received birthday or christmas gifts of any kind.
Dont fucking tell me we had a high consumption life style or that our expenses were any more "self inflicted" than an average middle class family.
Ok, your dad is making ATLEAST 100k. 3 kids through college should be no difficulty at all. My parents put 2 kids through university + graduate school. Neither of us worked during high school either.
I would disagree with you on the house aspect. Your father is not a complete idiot to be earning 1xx and not own a decent house in a very nice area. So PLEASE stop trying to pretend that you have a normal life style, because I call BS.
Also... If you infact have been saving so much money by living the life style of a 50k income house hold then why not give the excess unused money to the government??
You dont even know me kid and youre already presuming things about my life that are completely untrue. What the fuck is wrong with you guys? Youre making me ashamed to call myself a liberal. I cant believe the amount of generalization thats being thrown at me by the typically tolerant side of the political spectrum.
$100K is not even nearly enough to put 3 kids through college unless you want to severely limit your options. Both my older brothers went to out of state colleges that cost at least $30K a year. Because of this I applied only to in-state colleges and tuition cost $10K a year. Thats $70K a year on tuition alone (no room and board included). $100K is not enough to support that.
We lived in a $200K to $300K house. We had mortgages to pay on our house and on my dads office. He had to pay for labor as well. Eventually he had to pay for huge medical costs because my mother, grandmother, and grandfather had cancer.
I cant believe you people. Making me fucking sick. Who the fuck would lie about these things and even worse, who the fuck would call someone a liar without even knowing the guy? Im not whining about my life, you guys are the guys whining about our lives. My entire point was to dispel the notion that having a 6 figure income automatically means youre living in luxury. My family did not have to worry too much about money, but we were far from living in luxury. And look at all the bullshit that you guys start flinging at me for that simple assertion.
I wasn't saying that income is taxed at that rate, what I was saying is once you have other taxes incorporated besides income taxes, it can add up very fast in terms of the total percentage of your money you pay in the form of tax. I can say firsthand that my family forfeits roughly 48% of our income annually to taxes in one form or another. Whether or not you believe me on this statistic, I don't care, because i'm not putting all my family's economic data on an internet forum.
If you're not willing to elaborate on anecdotal evidence that you provided, then you shouldn't provide it.
Fine I'll throw you a couple of bones, but don't expect anything much more detailed than this.
Total income lost to taxes ~= 28% Property taxes / State Taxes (multiple states, multiple properties) ~= 16% Sales tax / gas tax / other misc taxes =~ 4% Total: 48%
Edit: reworded a sentence
Damn dude, how do you pay 28% in income taxes? My family also makes 6 figures and ive checked out our tax return for several years just because of curiosity. I cant remember our numbers that well since its been a couple months since tax season, but im pretty damn sure we dont pay 28% of our total income in taxes. Im not sure if we even pay 28% of our AGI in taxes.
Not sure how the accounting with your family works (and im not asking you to tell me) but paying such high amounts on sales, state, and property taxes should be able to net you a ton of deductions on your income tax return.
Trust me we've looked, sadly there isn't a whole lot of wiggle room for our situation (The income tax is pretty fixed, and the state governments like to tax the crap out of the property we own, especially our lake cabin.)
When both your parents are pretty high up in companies they tend to make quite a bit. We do pretty well not gonna deny it. We'd have even more if my parents didn't have to put 4 more kids through college and if my grandmother wasn't in a nursing home.
I agree with you. I might be liberal in a lot of things including taxing policy, but I hate the generalization that anyone making 6 figures is rich enough to be giving out money. We may make 6 figures but we still have tons of bills to pay and taxes to worry about. Its not all smooth sailing
It's quite arrogant for you to say that a person making 6 figures cannot spare to cut back while asking the government to cut back, because of pretty much self inflicted bills and taxes due to a higher consumption life style that one can afford while making that kind of money. 6 figures is also quite vague, althoguh either way you're making about double what the avg american makes something like 200k for a joint filing on a family of 4 say living in new york or california yields a different standard of living say to that same situation living in say tennessee.
"Arrogant"? Its actually quite presumptuous of you to assume that my family has a higher consumption life style and further more to assume that I ever called for the government to cut spending.
First of all, Im a liberal and Im all for government spending, though you would have to be a partisan hack to say that we couldnt afford to be more efficient with it.
Second of all, its your kind of generalization that Im referring to. My father is the only wage earner in our family. He put 3 kids through college so that we wouldnt have to spend time working and taking away from our studies. We have a house that no one in their right mind would ever call luxurious and we owned 2 cars: A toyota previa for my mother to run errands, a jeep grand cherokee for my dad to get to work. I was given hand-me-down clothing all my life, being the youngest child, and we rarely traveled or went on vacations of any kind. I never received birthday or christmas gifts of any kind.
Dont fucking tell me we had a high consumption life style or that our expenses were any more "self inflicted" than an average middle class family.
Ok, your dad is making ATLEAST 100k. 3 kids through college should be no difficulty at all. My parents put 2 kids through university + graduate school. Neither of us worked during high school either.
I would disagree with you on the house aspect. Your father is not a complete idiot to be earning 1xx and not own a decent house in a very nice area. So PLEASE stop trying to pretend that you have a normal life style, because I call BS.
Also... If you infact have been saving so much money by living the life style of a 50k income house hold then why not give the excess unused money to the government??
You dont even know me kid and youre already presuming things about my life that are completely untrue. What the fuck is wrong with you guys? Youre making me ashamed to call myself a liberal. I cant believe the amount of generalization thats being thrown at me by the typically tolerant side of the political spectrum.
$100K is not even nearly enough to put 3 kids through college unless you want to severely limit your options. Both my older brothers went to out of state colleges that cost at least $30K a year. Because of this I applied only to in-state colleges and tuition cost $10K a year. Thats $70K a year on tuition alone (no room and board included). $100K is not enough to support that.
We lived in a $200K to $300K house. We had mortgages to pay on our house and on my dads office. He had to pay for labor as well. Eventually he had to pay for huge medical costs because my mother, grandmother, and grandfather had cancer.
I cant believe you people. Making me fucking sick. Who the fuck would lie about these things and even worse, who the fuck would call someone a liar without even knowing the guy? Im not whining about my life, you guys are the guys whining about our lives. My entire point was to dispel the notion that having a 6 figure income automatically means youre living in luxury. My family did not have to worry too much about money, but we were far from living in luxury. And look at all the bullshit that you guys start flinging at me for that simple assertion.
Again, what the fuck is wrong with you guys?
Poor guy. You may think you're liberal and not subject to their attacks, but you have more than them. Therefore, you are rich, and should therefore give them what you and your family have worked hard to earn and provide for your family. Welcome to the other side of the debate.
On September 28 2011 13:23 hummingbird23 wrote: Hmm, if that's the living standards of someone making 100K a year, what might be the living standards of someone making roughly a third to half that?
More difficult. My living standards were not bad. They were actually quite good. But people seem to be suggesting that my family would be rolling in cash and wiping our asses with $100 bills. All I wanted to say was that we did not/could not live a lavish lifestyle
If 3 of someones family members got cancer, most likely not all of them would get treatment. If 3 kids were applying to top end colleges, they would likely be massively in debt and/or some of the kids would have to settle for less prestigious and in-state schools. They might have 1 car instead of 2, their house might be 1 story instead of 2.
Nothing about those things that I had growing up are luxurious, but they are also things that people with less income cannot enjoy.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qbLBs.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ik7vF.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UXz4m.gif)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OP5Dz.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eYbUx.gif)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/spg5H.gif)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IGYOE.jpg)
(The income tax is pretty fixed, and the state governments like to tax the crap out of the property we own, especially our lake cabin.)
