Somalia - Success of Anarchy - Page 26

On July 08 2011 07:45 Ace wrote:
"you can't prove it didn't happen so therefore it must be true!"

pants on head logic as usual

Irrelevant when my labor is taken without my consent while no one can prove it was not used for that purpose.

The only on weekends is quite ironic, and I'm really surprised you wouldn't want to live in BNW.

Do electricity and plumbing make you feel happy? Give you a reason to live? This is exactly why you cannot understand where I'm coming from. Such pointless and shallow luxuries, you only think life would be miserable without them because you have been weakened and caged for so long.

On July 07 2011 16:59 TheFrankOne wrote:


#1) No, please explain how you think fiscal policy works. Its called quantitative easing and why would we want to do anything but expand the money supply right now?

#2) No, we came off the gold standard because the Bretton Woods policy (which was a gold standard) created unsustainable currency arbitrage.

#3) No, the Fed may have been to blame due to a contractionary monetary policy (Milton Friedman and Alan Greenspan hold this view) but a significant majority of economists and historians agree that Roosevelt's policies as a whole helped end the great depression. This does not mean all of them were effective.

@Treemonkeys: could you please link me to an article explaining how the suspension of the gold standard during world war one is responsible for the decline of "mom and pop" stores today?

I don't think it reasonable for you to just sit there and say "straw man" when your actual arguments are so unclear in the first place. It's part of why I got tired of our discussione arlier. To explain further:



I will give you my impression of this paragraph so you can see why making your point clearer would be helpful.

You go from diet, to government regulations of food safety, to food subsidies, to GMOs, to cancer and obesity rates, throw in a snarky comment about taxes, and then seem to touch on and end on US imperialism (maybe just US policy formation process going to other countries, its hard to tell) and in the end I just don't know what you are trying to say.

On July 07 2011 16:59 TheFrankOne wrote:


#1) No, please explain how you think fiscal policy works. Its called quantitative easing and why would we want to do anything but expand the money supply right now?

#2) No, we came off the gold standard because the Bretton Woods policy (which was a gold standard) created unsustainable currency arbitrage.

#3) No, the Fed may have been to blame due to a contractionary monetary policy (Milton Friedman and Alan Greenspan hold this view) but a significant majority of economists and historians agree that Roosevelt's policies as a whole helped end the great depression. This does not mean all of them were effective.

On July 08 2011 15:02 jdseemoreglass wrote: You cannot expect a market to behave rationally when the overabundance of credit creates the false image of excessive demand, which in turn creates overinvestment and sows the seeds for the next recession.

On July 08 2011 10:06 TheGlassface wrote:
I ask because if you're getting fucked over and complaining, I'd assume you're doing something to change that. I ask about college because, if you're some punk kid whining who has little to no education...then I see a lot of that and that moves to discredit the rest of that "woe is me," crap.

There's no hamster wheel man, it's just simply asking if you're doing anything aside from complaining. Once again, nihilism solves nothing.
The fact that you look up to on one says quite a bit in itself.
Also, I've met plenty of unique people, why do you think I asked those questions? It gives insight into you as a person. I don't care to pry into your personal life and ask what it is that has you so down, I'm asking about you and what you do to contribute to society.
You speak with such disdain, it really is disheartening to read.
You make these broad, sweeping generalizations about society and act like if you're not unhappy you've been brainwashed. You have to see the irony in speaking about ignorance being bliss and then acting as if the only way to be truly intelligent is to be morose and spiteful to everyone with an opposite opinion to you.
You came out the gates attacking throughout this thread.
I can't even begin to imagine why

On July 01 2011 12:57 partisan wrote:
This is a joke right? Surely there is not a single sane person that looks at Somalia as a success story. Yea, 20 years of endless violence where its citizens have to turn to piracy to make money.

But apparently the US is at fault again, which is great because I was beginning to miss that dead horse.

On July 09 2011 00:57 Treemonkeys wrote:


I am probably one of the older members here, definitely not a "punk kid" more of a grouchy man who is getting old much faster than I thought I would. I went to college and I make a good living for myself, and I am working on getting things in order to leave this country while they are still letting people do so. For the record it is an asshole approach to say "you don't like it, leave" which is what a lot of people tell me when all I am doing is trying to tell people who much danger we are in from our government - and yes I admit, often rudely and abrasively. It should already be setting off alarms in the minds of people when that has become the most viable option for change, but who am I to expect wisdom in others? So basically this massive landmass belongs to the US government (after they enslaved and murdered the original occupiers back in the day, such is humanity) and if you don't like how they do things then just leave. Well aside from the shit of leaving all my lifelong friends and family behind who I may never see again, leaving the land I grew up on, worked on, and lived on my whole life my choices is to continue getting a dildo up the ass or leave this half of the continent. I perfectly understand that is just the way it is.

But then on top of all that, I have people - sometimes the same people and in the same breath - telling me I am free or that I have given my consent in this. The contradiction is blatantly obvious and the stupidity is infuriating. So that is where all my rudeness and abrasiveness comes from. A life of trying to convince people that the government is getting way, way out of control while constantly being bombarded with government educated ignorant people. These are people who have no concept of how someone like Hitler came to power and do what he did, and they have the same attitude and ignorance that the German people shared who defended his actions up until it became quite clear that his actions were inexcusable. Some people are gifted with a little more wisdom and clairvoyance to see the warning signs before it has to reach that horrible climax, and these people have no place in this country.

For the record I did not come out of the gates attacking in this thread. Attacking ideas of government yes, but not people, and not with being rude. I even turned around and pointed out clear flaws with anarcho-capitalist thought as well. I was even having an enjoyable conversion with some people before others decided to jump in and be as argumentative as possible using straw men and logical fallacies to basically be a jackass, and yes that is when I started talking like a jackass. I honestly shouldn't have bothered, leaving the country is a much better plan than trying to convince anyone.

Perhaps I should point out the sheer irony of "you live in a democracy so you have methods for change" - which require votes, which require changing of minds, which is met with "go do it somewhere else". They are the ones telling me I have options while proving how futile those options are in the same moment. Never mind that the USA has almost constantly been at war for the past 60 years and has always had the same foreign policy for those 60 or so years regardless of who or what party is in power. The two party system is just a smoke and mirrors divide conquer tactic to ensure those in power get whatever they want while the corporate run media who is partnered with the government ensure a 3rd party or new viewpoint will never get anywhere. So then all we have left is personal interaction to change the minds of our countrymen which is met with nothing but government educated ignorance.

Basically it is already check-mate in the USA - the government has all of the cards - the ability to spy on and remove political opponents, the minds of our youth, a population that is mostly disarmed, and a mass media system that parrots whatever they say as truth. Because of all that I am wasting my time here.

Everything that people are afraid of in regard to anarchy is already true - we are already dominated by violent warlords and we cannot safely work to survive without paying a portion to them. They farm us like cattle, and value our lives as such as they play chess with the destruction and prosperity of civilization. Also like cattle, we must be given just enough freedom so that we will remain productive - this freedom will only last as long as it is profitable to them. It is quite clear we have no say in the matter. All of this while they use the labor they steal from use to build secret bunkers so that we will bear the burden and suffering from their mistakes while they will stay safely hidden from it.

The one glimmer of hope is the sheer amount of deception that this system requires to maintain the scale of power it currently enjoys. Somehow humanity has reached the point where it will we will not tolerant such violence openly, and excuses have to be given to explain how it is all for our good. Government is not good for humanity, but abolishing it overnight wouldn't accomplish a damn thing. If somehow a majority of humanity was ready to live cooperatively without initiating violence against each other government would not be needed - but how will we ever reach that point with the same organization is providing our education, and has our mass information systems preach whatever they say as truth? They will never work towards their own removal, it is simply a problem of incentives. Their own existence feeds off of our problems and shortcomings which means they have every reason to ensure better solutions are not found while also having the tools required to do just that.

Murry Rothbard and others have done a great job of defining systems or cooperation that would not require the initiation of violence to accomplish everything as government does - while still giving us all of the good aspects of what government provides, but how can this ever come about when government has as much power over our minds as they do?

On July 01 2011 12:22 T0fuuu wrote:
Its not a success of anarchy. Its just what should of been done with Africa from long long ago. Get out, let them fix their own problems instead of inserting dictators and throwing aid at them.

On July 12 2011 00:47 radscorpion9 wrote:
Maybe I'm a little ignorant of all the problems occurring in America Treemonkeys, but I think we should be thankful its not as bad as some of those countries in the middle East or Africa, where people are starving to death, living in huts, being ruled over by warlords...or in China where they have serious human rights issues (they openly deny internet access, for example, and jail political dissidents). Just look at the quality of life the average teenager lives, they have education, decent job prospects, live in a very rich country with basic rights and freedoms secured. I think you're being a bit extreme in how you perceive Western society.

The media probably is, to some extent, influenced by the corporations that fund them. But there has also been an explosion in internet-delivered media, such as the young turks, or Democracy Now!, or the thousands of blogs from economists and scientists. Its harder than ever before to channel the news through one source in order to control the public's opinion. People have more options than ever before, and can learn a lot of things on their own if they want to (wikipedia, free books online, libraries where people are free to read the works of great thinkers in the past).

If anything there's too much information out there (we do live in the information age, after all ).

Also...to say that we are like cattle is really kind of extreme. I mean, yes people pay taxes...but does the government *really* impede how you live your life? Social services, health care, maybe some controversial decisions...but 95% of your life probably you're free to do what you want, drive wherever you want, party, go to Las Vegas. Its hardly the life of a cattle or a slave.

Anyways, maybe its different in Canada than the United States (although I doubt its that bad)...but at least from where I'm living, we really have near complete freedom except for taxes and maybe some regulatory forms you have to fill in now and then. If the government ever did something truly outrageous the people would fight against it anyways, especially in a society with so many news outlets. Anyways, just my 2 cents

On July 11 2011 23:34 BlackFlag wrote:
I don't understand how people as far as you in their thinking can still cling to the old way of money and don't understand how capitalism and capital accumulation will always produce centralized power and oppression.